The MMA Thread

[Johnny Blaze]

Fedor Being Persued by...Mark Cuban?

WTF?

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Hmmmmm, well he certainly knows what's up. He is going after the baddest man on the planet.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

An interesting little internet exchange...

Sokoudjou On UFC Protecting Certain Fighters

Michael Bisping Reponds...



Personally, I kind of agree with Soku. The UFC does seem to take better care of and "protect" certain fighters. Case in point the upcoming Jardine/Liddell fight. I do like the Iceman, but Jardine? Seriously? Dana White was *****ing for damn near a month about not having a main event for that card after talks with Wanderlei fell through, yet the whole time he had Shogun staring him in the face.
It would've been easy for him to take Shogun and put him against Liddell as the main event, and what MMA fan in their right mind wouldn't love to see that fight?
But instead he goes and get Liddell a "warm up" fight of sorts in the form of Keith Jardine.

 

[Qoèlet]

1-Matt Hammil was robbed. That's all. I didn't expect him to do that well at all, and he looked like a totally different, much improved fighter. There is no way Mike Bisping deserved that decision.

2-Dan Henderson deserved the decision. By my count he won the fight three rounds to two, which is why I was, needless to say, shocked when the fifth round began with Couture and Rogan talking about how Dan had to score a knock out to have any hope of winnning. On the other hand, I can't be truly disappointed in either very likable fighter taking the decision in such a closely contested bout, and there is a certain sort of poetic justice in Dan Henderson, owner of dubious decisions over Carlos Newton, Ninja Rua, Yuki Kondo, Murilo Bustamante, and the favour of one judge in his loss to Ricardo Arona, becoming the victim of a bad decision himself. That said, he really ought to head down to 185 and get the strap there, thus taking part in probably the first two world title unifications in MMA.

3-Houston Alexander and Cheik Kongo are both the real deal. I don't like Kongo, honestly, probably in large part because the UFC seemed to be making an effort to showcase him when he was clearly just a big kickboxer with ugly, nonexistent takedown defense and ground game... but now he's a big kickboxer with ugly somewhat effective takedown defense and ground game who beat Mirko freaking Crocop.

4-On that note, Mirko Crocop might just be done. I don't say this because I think he doesn't have the ability to fight at the top level anymore, because I certainly believe he does. I say this because I just don't think his heart is in it anymore. With two consecutive losses now, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the last we'll see of Crocop in the UFC.

5-On that note, what does Crocop's loss say about the rankings in the heavyweight division? All of this time, the former PRIDE heavyweight division has held a special sort of lustre, especially the man who stood on the top of it, but with Crocop now certainly knocked out of the top five, what can we say about Fedor when he hasn't fought a truly significant opponent aside from Crocop since besting Nogueira three years ago? And if Nogueira should lose in the Octagon, standing across from Randy Couture or any other heavyweight, just how secure is Emelianenko's claim as #1 Heavyweight in the world? Wacky times.

 

[Badger]

1-Matt Hammil was robbed. That's all. I didn't expect him to do that well at all, and he looked like a totally different, much improved fighter. There is no way Mike Bisping deserved that decision.

Couldn't agree with you more.

2-Dan Henderson deserved the decision. By my count he won the fight three rounds to two, which is why I was, needless to say, shocked when the fifth round began with Couture and Rogan talking about how Dan had to score a knock out to have any hope of winnning. On the other hand, I can't be truly disappointed in either very likable fighter taking the decision in such a closely contested bout, and there is a certain sort of poetic justice in Dan Henderson, owner of dubious decisions over Carlos Newton, Ninja Rua, Yuki Kondo, Murilo Bustamante, and the favour of one judge in his loss to Ricardo Arona, becoming the victim of a bad decision himself. That said, he really ought to head down to 185 and get the strap there, thus taking part in probably the first two world title unifications in MMA.

This fight was a coin flip, neither fighter did much to take the fight. I think Rampage got the decision because he was maybe more aggressive.

3-Houston Alexander and Cheik Kongo are both the real deal. I don't like Kongo, honestly, probably in large part because the UFC seemed to be making an effort to showcase him when he was clearly just a big kickboxer with ugly, nonexistent takedown defense and ground game... but now he's a big kickboxer with ugly somewhat effective takedown defense and ground game who beat Mirko freaking Crocop.

Houston Alexander is a freak, two fights both over before the first minute of the first round. However he's yet to be tested by a top light heavyweight.

Kongo, don't even get me started. I don't understand why he's deemed such a great fighter, he's one-dimensional and a boring fighter, who hasn't beaten anyone. The old Cro-cop was dead and burried when he left Pride.

4-On that note, Mirko Crocop might just be done. I don't say this because I think he doesn't have the ability to fight at the top level anymore, because I certainly believe he does. I say this because I just don't think his heart is in it anymore. With two consecutive losses now, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the last we'll see of Crocop in the UFC.

Exactly, if it wasn't for the money he'd be long gone.

5-On that note, what does Crocop's loss say about the rankings in the heavyweight division? All of this time, the former PRIDE heavyweight division has held a special sort of lustre, especially the man who stood on the top of it, but with Crocop now certainly knocked out of the top five, what can we say about Fedor when he hasn't fought a truly significant opponent aside from Crocop since besting Nogueira three years ago? And if Nogueira should lose in the Octagon, standing across from Randy Couture or any other heavyweight, just how secure is Emelianenko's claim as #1 Heavyweight in the world? Wacky times.

And, we'll probably never find out since Emelianenko isn't going anywhere near UFC now and Cuban is chasing him for his new MMA promotion.

Also, the Marcus Davis fight was great, short, but great. The Irish Hand Grenade showed great heart and he continues to improve every fight. Best fight of the night IMO.

 

[kane9321]

Matt Hammil bispings ass lastnite ...talk about homecooking

henderson vs rampage..was a draw..period

 

[Johnny Blaze]

I must say, that Bisping/Hamill decision was utter bull****. I don't know what fight those two judges were watching, but Hamill pushed the action and controlled that fight from pretty much the opening bell. I could see them possibly giving Bisping a round, but giving him the split? Horse ****.
Definitely adds fuel to the accusations that Bisping is a protected fighter for the UFC. Like to see them put him up against some tougher competition (nothing against Hamill), such as Shogun, Wand, or Hendo and see how he does.
Hell, even the London fans booed him after the verdict was announced.

The Rampage/Hendo fight was awesome, and definitely was my second favorite fight of the night (get to the first one later). Personally, I think it was the right choice for the winner. Rampage pushed the action and showed more aggression most of the match. I had him winning a split 3 rounds to 2 personally.
I'm a fan of both fighters though, so either way I was going to be happy come the end of the night. It was definitely the war everyone thought it would be. And Rampage definitely looks vastely improved from the Rampage of old. I'd love to see him get another fight with Wand or a rematch with Shogun. Definitely think both would be much closer fights. Juanito definitely has turned him into a force to be feared in the LHW devision.

Cro Cop versus Kongo...wow, what's there to say? Ever since that loss to Fedor, Cro Cop's seemed to slowly dwindle. I guess ever since Fedor's camp came up with the game plan to beat Mirko, now everyone's using it. Kongo pushed the action and kept Cro Cop on his heels for most of the fight. It looked like Mirko was getting frustrated not being able to set up anything as he's really only on his game when he's pushing the action and stalking his opponent.
Learning to be an much better counter-puncher would be advisible for him.

What's next for Cro Cop? Who knows. It'll be hard to sell him as a top HW with these two losses to fighters not considered top contenders, that's for sure. Even though I know he'd never do it, I think a jump down to LHW would be best for him. He'd be the bigger fighter in the division, and it just might give him a fresh start that he really needs.
You definitely can't bump him down off the PPV card and give him nobodies to fight to get his confidence back. Not when he's making more than a quarter mil with each fight.
Maybe a trip to the sports shrink that GSP went to would help him? It certainly worked for Rush.

As it stands now, I wouldn't be surprised if the UFC either tries to rework Mirko's deal, or even cut him outright from his huge contract.

Houston Alexander really silenced the doubters tonight. Two matches in the UFC and both done in less than a minute. Wow.
His knees in the clinch are just awesome. I seriously hope the UFC puts him up against some better competition for his next fight so we can see how he stands against some of the higher ranked fighters.

Match of the night for me goes to the Marcus Davis/Paul Taylor fight. Everyone thought the fight was done when he got rocked with that head kick and pounced on, but Davis pulled through it and reversed the tables on Taylor and eventually ended it with the submission of the night.
Awesome fight and Davis just won another fan in me.

All in all, an excellent card. Now I can't wait to see Shogun's debut in a couple weeks. I can't help but feel sorry for Forrest though.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

1-Matt Hammil was robbed. That's all. I didn't expect him to do that well at all, and he looked like a totally different, much improved fighter. There is no way Mike Bisping deserved that decision.

2-Dan Henderson deserved the decision. By my count he won the fight three rounds to two, which is why I was, needless to say, shocked when the fifth round began with Couture and Rogan talking about how Dan had to score a knock out to have any hope of winnning. On the other hand, I can't be truly disappointed in either very likable fighter taking the decision in such a closely contested bout, and there is a certain sort of poetic justice in Dan Henderson, owner of dubious decisions over Carlos Newton, Ninja Rua, Yuki Kondo, Murilo Bustamante, and the favour of one judge in his loss to Ricardo Arona, becoming the victim of a bad decision himself. That said, he really ought to head down to 185 and get the strap there, thus taking part in probably the first two world title unifications in MMA.

3-Houston Alexander and Cheik Kongo are both the real deal. I don't like Kongo, honestly, probably in large part because the UFC seemed to be making an effort to showcase him when he was clearly just a big kickboxer with ugly, nonexistent takedown defense and ground game... but now he's a big kickboxer with ugly somewhat effective takedown defense and ground game who beat Mirko freaking Crocop.

4-On that note, Mirko Crocop might just be done. I don't say this because I think he doesn't have the ability to fight at the top level anymore, because I certainly believe he does. I say this because I just don't think his heart is in it anymore. With two consecutive losses now, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the last we'll see of Crocop in the UFC.

5-On that note, what does Crocop's loss say about the rankings in the heavyweight division? All of this time, the former PRIDE heavyweight division has held a special sort of lustre, especially the man who stood on the top of it, but with Crocop now certainly knocked out of the top five, what can we say about Fedor when he hasn't fought a truly significant opponent aside from Crocop since besting Nogueira three years ago? And if Nogueira should lose in the Octagon, standing across from Randy Couture or any other heavyweight, just how secure is Emelianenko's claim as #1 Heavyweight in the world? Wacky times.

2. What? Get the hell out of here. Dan Henderson did not deserve the decision. UFC judging isn't the same as boxing, you also have to cause damage at she same time while contorling the pace of the fight, the ring etc.

Henderson was not beaten and bloodied all over, but it was evident by looking at his face that he had taken a beating. Plus he was fighting the champ, anytime you fight a champ when it goes to decision you have to prove beyond a doubt that you won the fight. That means you dominated or close to the champ the whole fight. Henderson did not do so, he knew that he didn't deserve the win you can tell from his reaction when the winnder was announced.

Any fighter that knows he wont the fight displays a look of shock, disgust, anger or some sort of emotion or reaction to indicate that they felt they won the fight and the wrong dicecsion was announced.

No rampage did not clearly dominate Henderson, but when you're the champ the belt has to be taken from you either by knock out, submission or being completely dominated. Henderson did not do this to Rampage.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Couldn't agree with you more.



This fight was a coin flip, neither fighter did much to take the fight. I think Rampage got the decision because he was maybe more aggressive.



Houston Alexander is a freak, two fights both over before the first minute of the first round. However he's yet to be tested by a top light heavyweight.

Kongo, don't even get me started. I don't understand why he's deemed such a great fighter, he's one-dimensional and a boring fighter, who hasn't beaten anyone. The old Cro-cop was dead and burried when he left Pride.



Exactly, if it wasn't for the money he'd be long gone.



And, we'll probably never find out since Emelianenko isn't going anywhere near UFC now and Cuban is chasing him for his new MMA promotion.

Also, the Marcus Davis fight was great, short, but great. The Irish Hand Grenade showed great heart and he continues to improve every fight. Best fight of the night IMO.

Houston is raw, but as you said he hasn't faced any top teir fighter.

Kongo would get his ass handed to him by Randy Couture (sp)

 

[Johnny Blaze]

2. What? Get the hell out of here. Dan Henderson did not deserve the decision. UFC judging isn't the same as boxing, you also have to cause damage at she same time while contorling the pace of the fight, the ring etc.

Henderson was not beaten and bloodied all over, but it was evident by looking at his face that he had taken a beating. Plus he was fighting the champ, anytime you fight a champ when it goes to decision you have to prove beyond a doubt that you won the fight. That means you dominated or close to the champ the whole fight. Henderson did not do so, he knew that he didn't deserve the win you can tell from his reaction when the winnder was announced.

Any fighter that knows he wont the fight displays a look of shock, disgust, anger or some sort of emotion or reaction to indicate that they felt they won the fight and the wrong dicecsion was announced.

No rampage did not clearly dominate Henderson, but when you're the champ the belt has to be taken from you either by knock out, submission or being completely dominated. Henderson did not do this to Rampage.

I agree with you that Rampage was right choice for the winner.
I just have to mention that Hendo was also a champ coming into the fight, which is why it was billed as Champion Vs Champion. So any special treatment to Jackson for being the "defending champ" during scoring is unfounded.
Rampage took it to Hendo and pushed the action most of the fight, which is why he retained his UFC belt and won the PRIDE belt, which is being absorbed, so-to-speak into the UFC LHW title.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

I agree with you that Rampage was right choice for the winner.
I just have to mention that Hendo was also a champ coming into the fight, which is why it was billed as Champion Vs Champion. So any special treatment to Jackson for being the "defending champ" during scoring is unfounded.
Rampage took it to Hendo and pushed the action most of the fight, which is why he retained his UFC belt and won the PRIDE belt, which is being absorbed, so-to-speak into the UFC LHW title.

Yes, but...that is usually how judges look at fights with champs. I am not saying that Rampage did not earn the victory, because I clearly think he did. But if it goes to decision like it did, the Champ usually wins.

Hendo was a champ, but not the UFC champ.

 

[Qoèlet]

2. What? Get the hell out of here. Dan Henderson did not deserve the decision. UFC judging isn't the same as boxing, you also have to cause damage at she same time while contorling the pace of the fight, the ring etc.

Henderson was not beaten and bloodied all over, but it was evident by looking at his face that he had taken a beating. Plus he was fighting the champ, anytime you fight a champ when it goes to decision you have to prove beyond a doubt that you won the fight. That means you dominated or close to the champ the whole fight. Henderson did not do so, he knew that he didn't deserve the win you can tell from his reaction when the winnder was announced.

Any fighter that knows he wont the fight displays a look of shock, disgust, anger or some sort of emotion or reaction to indicate that they felt they won the fight and the wrong dicecsion was announced.

No rampage did not clearly dominate Henderson, but when you're the champ the belt has to be taken from you either by knock out, submission or being completely dominated. Henderson did not do this to Rampage.

First off, your condescending attitude is not appreciated. Champion vs. Champion. Unification bout. Any preference for the UFC champion is unfounded, and even if Henderson was merely a challenger, which he was not, there is no requirement to err on the side of the champion in a close contest. Like you said, this isn't boxing.

Damage is not the most important criteria, especially as neither fighter was horribly damaged. Face reading definately has no place in the judges scorecards, but if anything the look on Henderson's face was exhaustion, which is irrelevant because him being tired doesn't mean anything unless it effects his fighting, which it did not. I saw Henderson winning round one clearly, as well as round two via control and the more effective grappling, even though Rampage got on top to close the round out, and I don't see either man with a particular advantage in the striking exchanges. Round three was a wash, but I thought Rampage won it by virtue of controlling position for the longer duration, even though it was Henderson reversing and coming out on top to close the round, in so doing coming pretty close with a submission attempt. Round four was definately in Rampage's favour because he knocked Henderson off balance and took the top position.

So going into the fifth round it was two rounds a piece, and I saw Henderson being more effective in that round. Striking exchanges didn't particularly favour either man, and with Henderson landing the early takedown and by my judgement doing the more effective work for the first three and a half minutes, won the round. Yes, Rampage got on top in the last minute or so of the round, and finished strong in the last ten seconds, but while I can appreciate why someone would score the fight in his favour, I don't believe in scoring a round for someone simply because the portion of it which he was in control of took place at the end of it rather than the beginning.

And as for your decision announcement face-reading, not only do Dan Henderson's feelings on the matter have nothing to do with who deserved the decision (see Spencer Fisher's "that should have been a draw" comment after clearly besting Sam Stout), the look on his face was for my money surprise and disappointment. I have to figure that there is a reason that Joe Rogan didn't interview Henderson in the octagon, and I doubt that it's because he was too busy graciously accepting that he deserved to lose the decision.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

Fedor Signs Deal...

Cro Cop Comments On Loss

 

[jaguarr]

Hmmm...interesting story about Fedor. I wonder if it is really a smoke screen as suspected and they're going to spring the surprise on everyone at the event that he's actually signed with UFC? I know he wants the competition (and the money) that UFC can offer, so maybe they came to terms with White after all. I'd love to see Couture and Fedor go at it. If anyone can take Fedor down it's Couture at this point. He's like the Batman of UFC; give him enough prep time and he can beat anyone. Fedor is an animal, though. It would be one hell of a fight, no matter who won.

jag

 

[Johnny Blaze]

Well, he wasn't shown at all during the event, so who knows?
Maybe they're ironing out some of the finer points and saving it for UFC 76 in two weeks instead?

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

First off, your condescending attitude is not appreciated. Champion vs. Champion. Unification bout. Any preference for the UFC champion is unfounded, and even if Henderson was merely a challenger, which he was not, there is no requirement to err on the side of the champion in a close contest. Like you said, this isn't boxing.

Damage is not the most important criteria, especially as neither fighter was horribly damaged. Face reading definately has no place in the judges scorecards, but if anything the look on Henderson's face was exhaustion, which is irrelevant because him being tired doesn't mean anything unless it effects his fighting, which it did not. I saw Henderson winning round one clearly, as well as round two via control and the more effective grappling, even though Rampage got on top to close the round out, and I don't see either man with a particular advantage in the striking exchanges. Round three was a wash, but I thought Rampage won it by virtue of controlling position for the longer duration, even though it was Henderson reversing and coming out on top to close the round, in so doing coming pretty close with a submission attempt. Round four was definately in Rampage's favour because he knocked Henderson off balance and took the top position.

So going into the fifth round it was two rounds a piece, and I saw Henderson being more effective in that round. Striking exchanges didn't particularly favour either man, and with Henderson landing the early takedown and by my judgement doing the more effective work for the first three and a half minutes, won the round. Yes, Rampage got on top in the last minute or so of the round, and finished strong in the last ten seconds, but while I can appreciate why someone would score the fight in his favour, I don't believe in scoring a round for someone simply because the portion of it which he was in control of took place at the end of it rather than the beginning.

And as for your decision announcement face-reading, not only do Dan Henderson's feelings on the matter have nothing to do with who deserved the decision (see Spencer Fisher's "that should have been a draw" comment after clearly besting Sam Stout), the look on his face was for my money surprise and disappointment. I have to figure that there is a reason that Joe Rogan didn't interview Henderson in the octagon, and I doubt that it's because he was too busy graciously accepting that he deserved to lose the decision.

Well let me say I didn't mean to come off as condescending. But I still do not think that Henderson won the fight in anyway shape or form. Maybe it was a draw and I could accept an argument for that. But I did not see Henderson do anything to prove that he won.

 

[Qoèlet]

Good enough. I might feel differently once I rewatch the fight, but watching it for the first time I definately favoured Henderson. Not that I'm mad that Jackson got the decision or I think it's a really bad judgement, just I disagreed with it.

Anyway, after a busy month, Sherdog's new rankings for September are out. I view them as the best rankings available, although I can't appreciate the logic behind putting Liddell ahead of Henderson now that Rampage won the decision. After all, Liddell lost his last fight to Jackson too, by knock out, and he hasn't beaten anyone since, so what justifies his move from #4 to #3?
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=8942&my_page=1

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Good enough. I might feel differently once I rewatch the fight, but watching it for the first time I definately favoured Henderson. Not that I'm mad that Jackson got the decision or I think it's a really bad judgement, just I disagreed with it.

Anyway, after a busy month, Sherdog's new rankings for September are out. I view them as the best rankings available, although I can't appreciate the logic behind putting Liddell ahead of Henderson now that Rampage won the decision. After all, Liddell lost his last fight to Jackson too, by knock out, and he hasn't beaten anyone since, so what justifies his move from #4 to #3?
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=8942&my_page=1

Same goes for me. I do want to watch the fight again and maybe my mind will change once I see it.

As for the Lidell move, you got me. Doesn't make any sense.

 

[DeaDheaD]

Hamill pulled a De La Hoya and probably got docked for it.

 

[The FallenAngel]

Man, I can't believe I didn't find this thread sooner.

Anyway, I hope Fedor has signed with UFC. Him vs. Couture is a dream fight of mine. Also, I'd so buy his Affliction stuff.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

Man, I can't believe I didn't find this thread sooner.

Anyway, I hope Fedor has signed with UFC. Him vs. Couture is a dream fight of mine. Also, I'd so buy his Affliction stuff.

According to Fedor's camp, a deal had been agreed upon by both parties a couple weeks back.
But, when the UFC faxed the contract over to Russia so Fedor could sign it, the contract was a different one than the one they originally agreed upon.

Whether this is BS or not, who knows. But Zuffa has done nothing to respond to it if it was a BS rumor meant to discredit them.
If it's true, I can't see why Zuffa would agree on something and then go back on it at the last second. Not good business.








Anyway, did anyone catch the EliteXC event this past Saturday?
Nick Diaz made his return from his suspension after the Gomi fight and beat BJ Penn protoge Mike Aina. Was another controversial MMA decision, but not as bad as the Hamill/Bisping fight. Personally, I thought Aina took the match 29-28.

Main event was a good'n between "Ruthless" Robbie Lawler and Murilo "Ninja" Rua. Was going back and forth there for the first round and a half, then Lawler started to take control. The Ruthless One ended up putting Ninja down via TKO in the third to become the new EliteXC 185 Pound Champ.
Lawler looked damn good in this fight. While Ninja was seemingly getting winded, Robbie looked like he was just getting started.

I wish he'd come back to the UFC. I'd love to see a Robbie Lawler Vs Anderson Silva match for the title.

 

[Badger]

Can't believe nobody's mentioned the split decision lose for Liddell to Jardine. Or, more importantly Forrest Griffin upsetting Mauricio "Shogun" Rua by submitting him in the third round. I didn't get to see the fights; so if anyone saw the fights, I'd like to hear about them.

 

[DBella]

What is the difference between this thread and the UFC thread? It seems like the things discussed in both threads seem the same (or very similar) to me.

 

[Badger]

We've been talking about those fights in the UFC thread, Phil. Apparently Rua came into the fight completely out of shape and gassed out in the third round and that's pretty much what lost him the fight; he just had no conditioning and couldn't hang, so Forrest pretty much just wore him down til he was too tired to fight back. Even then, I guess Rua almost got him. (I didn't watch the fights, either). As for Liddell, I've been saying he's overrated for years. Looks like Jardine finally showed the world.

jag

Yeah, I forgot about the other thread.

 

[DBella]

They're pretty well the same thread, really. The UFC thread is pretty limited to UFC stuff only, though, rather than ALL of the MMA world like this one does. That's the only difference I can gather.

jag

We can talk about the UFC here then, right?