The new Batman films...new villains NOT seen in Nolan's trilogy?

We could get a better (or longer) Two-Face story, but to do that we'd have to retread the Harvey Dent story. Let's have Dent/Two-Face step aside for some new blood

1)I'm not arguing for Two-Face to be in the very first film or even the second. I'm saying he still is due a film, though.

2)People keep talking like Harvey's story can only be a boring/less satisfying retread of his arc in TDK. I disagree. You could have Harvey as a supporting character in the first two films, making his downfall a sub-plot in the second and you could find a way to tell the story of his downfall in the second film thats not just a redux of his story from TDK. Then use him as the main villain in the next film.
 
Well Scarecrow was not used to his full potential but with what we did see it was pretty faithful, sans the costume. I would definitely love for a better developed, fully fleshed out Scarecrow as a villain in a Batman movie, though.

The only villain in Nolan's trilogy that should get a makeover.

I understand what they did with Dent and what they were going for, you don't have to explain it to me. It is just NOT my cup of tea. I would like to see a serious Two-Face as a fully fleshed out villain as the main baddy of his own movie. We still have not gotten that, unfortunately. Two-Face has a true split personality and that alternate personality of Harvey's is a ruthless crime boss(albeit one who must seek approval from his coin for his acts). I just don't dig the idea of Harvey being basically just a guy pushed over the edge because he lost his lady. That's not Two-Face.

That may not be Two-Face and Joker is neither someone who wears paint or Bane being someone that took care of Talia when she was a child, but the interpretations were brilliant. I myself was satisfied with Dent in TDK, so as much as it would be nice to see that split personality take on the villain, I'd be totally fine if the character isn't used. As I said, it's tough to say I want to see Joker, Two-Face, Catwoman or Bane because they were too done too damn well.
 
1)I'm not arguing for Two-Face to be in the very first film or even the second. I'm saying he still is due a film, though.

2)People keep talking like Harvey's story can only be a boring/less satisfying retread of his arc in TDK. I disagree. You could have Harvey as a supporting character in the first two films, making his downfall a sub-plot in the second and you could find a way to tell the story of his downfall in the second film thats not just a redux of his story from TDK. Then use him as the main villain in the next film.

So you would want the new series to take a cue on Nolan's/Goyer's original idea? Let's have a new idea that doesn't sound like what Nolan and Goyer thought of before TDK went into production.
 
That may not be Two-Face and Joker is neither someone who wears paint or Bane being someone that took care of Talia when she was a child, but the interpretations were brilliant. I myself was satisfied with Dent in TDK, so as much as it would be nice to see that split personality take on the villain, I'd be totally fine if the character isn't used. As I said, it's tough to say I want to see Joker, Two-Face, Catwoman or Bane because they were too done too damn well.

First of all, you are comparing apples & oranges here. Joker not being permawhite is a stylistic choice. The Joker as written in TDK WAS The Joker we know from the comics, despite a different take on his look. Two-Face was like a completely different character. Not Harvey, mind you but Two-Face. Having a Two-Face who does not have a split personality is like having a sane Joker whose motivations are things like making money.

There are still Joker stories to be told. I don't know why you wouldn't want to see The Joker again. Now, is it a good idea to put him in either of the first couple of films? Definitely not. You can't allow Heath's interpretation(as good as it was) to just totally bury the character on film like that, though. Plus, we have gotten TWO different Batman movies showing Batman and Joker meeting each other for the first time. I would like to see a Batman and Joker who have gone up against each other many times and already have a history duking it out. Like The Killing Joke.
 
Regardless of what villains they use, I would like one of the next films to be an adaptation (either loose or direct) of Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth.

If we get one movie where Batman has to infiltrate Arkham Asylum (the inmates take over and hold the doctors/nurses hostage), then that opens the door to a lot of cameos.
 
^Agreed. The Arkham Asylum story is definitely one arc from the comics that BEGS for a live action adaptation. WB would have to be crazy/stupid to not see the potential in that one.
 
^So you just never again want to see Two-Face on film or what?

After such great representations, I much rather see villains that haven't been touched upon, or were butchered by Schumacher(Freeze, Poison Ivy, and even Riddler even though I liked Carrey's performance).

First of all, you are comparing apples & oranges here. Joker not being permawhite is a stylistic choice. The Joker as written in TDK WAS The Joker we know from the comics, despite a different take on his look. Two-Face was like a completely different character. Not Harvey, mind you but Two-Face. Having a Two-Face who does not have a split personality is like having a sane Joker whose motivations are things like making money.

Is it apples to oranges? While Nolan's Joker had war paint as a stylistic choice, Nolan's Two-Face wasn't a full villain due to a choice that best fits the story, such as Joker wearing paint and not being permawhite.

And for the most part, Two-Face did feel like he slowly started to form another personality. I mean, being manipulated so easily by Joker? That isn't the Harvey Dent we were introduced to earlier in the film at all.

There are still Joker stories to be told. I don't know why you wouldn't want to see The Joker again. Now, is it a good idea to put him in either of the first couple of films? Definitely not. You can't allow Heath's interpretation(as good as it was) to just totally bury the character on film like that, though. Plus, we have gotten TWO different Batman movies showing Batman and Joker meeting each other for the first time. I would like to see a Batman and Joker who have gone up against each other many times and already have a history duking it out. Like The Killing Joke.

I'd much rather see an animated film from DC on The Killing Joke. As I said, I want to see other villains being used, lol.

Regardless of what villains they use, I would like one of the next films to be an adaptation (either loose or direct) of Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth.

If we get one movie where Batman has to infiltrate Arkham Asylum (the inmates take over and hold the doctors/nurses hostage), then that opens the door to a lot of cameos.

It would definitely work as a one-off for sure, but I don't know how a film such as that could work into a trilogy, imo.
 
I actually think a film based on the Arkham Asylum graphiv novel could work greast as the climactic end of a connected series of Bat-films (I'd really like it if the next bunch wasn't a triology, as unrealistic as that sounds, just so that the film industry can start moving away from that approach). Think about it: have the villains and side villains of the story be introduced in their own movie earlier in the series. They would already be fleshed out, so you could focus almost entirely on the mental and physical toll on Batman as he faces all of his old foes. Could be a great way to examine a darker side of the character that isn't usually seen, and would be a great way to tie together the next series. Of course, taking this approach would mean that Batman's foes would have to be kept alive in the earlier films, but that's pretty appropriate for the comics, right? And having it take place entirely in Arkham in one night would make it a personal and surprising finale, where most comic book movies try to end their trilogies with the highest stakes and the most explosions. It would have the potential to be completely different, but could also fall apart due to just how many important villains are involved.

That's my take on that idea, anyway.
 
I'd like to see Batman dealing with a vigilante in Gotham who doesn't follow the rules, ideally Red Hood but the amount of reworking of his story that would be required may annoy some fanboys. The other option would be Huntress who of course would bring other issues to the concept.

As for a villain, by far and away the one I want done/re-done the most is this man!

 
I love that Freeze design. It'd be sick in live action.
 
I totally see where you're coming from with this.

But to me Two-Face's character isn't 'diminishing returns'. I am able to totally buy into the mob boss split personality thing, I guess maybe others aren't or at least not within a live action film after TDK.

You know, there is a saying that all stories are basically rehashes. There's nothing new. Its HOW you tell the story. I am sure there is some way to do Harvey/Two-Face again and not have it feel like a complete retread of TDK.

I think you can do Two-Face again as a more developed villain and less a tragic hero, but doing Harvey Dent again? I could see it being different, but like a certain webby reboot recently, different sometimes is just still too familiar. ;)

As for Dent as a mobster, I never liked it. It works in the original incarnation of the character. But post-YO or TLH? As Loeb alludes to, Dent hates the mafia. He lost everything trying to bring them down. After he loses half his face, his career, his marriage, and his sanity, he takes Falcone down as a vigilante in TLH. When he escapes Arkham in DV, he joins forces with Gotham's other freaks so he could wipe out the rest of organized crime. At the end of the book, Joker turns on him and shoots him because, "Same old Harv. Always trying to wipe out the mob," or something to that effect.

For someone with such an obsession with destroying organized crime, especially after they took everything from him, for him to become a mobster doesn't feel right. It is why Loeb has Joker "kill" Two-Face, if only for DV with the implication he'll be back. It is why Nolan straight up kills him all together in TDK. To do him again, I would focus on making a grander adaptation out of DV. But again, I think he is more tragic when he is man out for revenge, whether sanely or not, than as a gangster. Just personal taste.
 
I think you can do Two-Face again as a more developed villain and less a tragic hero, but doing Harvey Dent again? I could see it being different, but like a certain webby reboot recently, different sometimes is just still too familiar. ;)

As for Dent as a mobster, I never liked it. It works in the original incarnation of the character. But post-YO or TLH? As Loeb alludes to, Dent hates the mafia. He lost everything trying to bring them down. After he loses half his face, his career, his marriage, and his sanity, he takes Falcone down as a vigilante in TLH. When he escapes Arkham in DV, he joins forces with Gotham's other freaks so he could wipe out the rest of organized crime. At the end of the book, Joker turns on him and shoots him because, "Same old Harv. Always trying to wipe out the mob," or something to that effect.

For someone with such an obsession with destroying organized crime, especially after they took everything from him, for him to become a mobster doesn't feel right. It is why Loeb has Joker "kill" Two-Face, if only for DV with the implication he'll be back. It is why Nolan straight up kills him all together in TDK. To do him again, I would focus on making a grander adaptation out of DV. But again, I think he is more tragic when he is man out for revenge, whether sanely or not, than as a gangster. Just personal taste.

This. All of this. That's how I see Two-Face. Making him anything more than a tragic villain getting revenge kind of robs Harvey Dent of everything that made him who he was. The mobster Two-Face was never a concept I could get behind. TLH gave me my favorite comic book Dent/Two-Face and TDK gave me a great cinematic Dent/Two-Face. Let's move on and let other villains have their time to shine.
 
Give me Freeze, The Riddler or any unused villains but for me I dont care to see another Joker, Catwoman or Two Face in the reboot series.
 
I'd like to see Batman dealing with a vigilante in Gotham who doesn't follow the rules, ideally Red Hood but the amount of reworking of his story that would be required may annoy some fanboys. The other option would be Huntress who of course would bring other issues to the concept.

As for a villain, by far and away the one I want done/re-done the most is this man!


I'm also going to say that this suit should be Freeze's suit in a film.
 
What not this?!?!

mr-freeze1.jpg


:oldrazz:

But its iconic.
 
Allow me to break the ice, my name is Freeze. Learn it well.



Seriously Freeze needs a good director and a writer to make him badass.
 
Do not get me wrong, Nolan made a mighty fine Batman Trilogy.

However, if there is to be new Batman films, I am looking for a different main goal for Batman, that does not revolve around saving the city of Gotham from some sort of explosion. I want something more personal.

Some villains I think will be great:
Penguin
Black Mask
The Riddler
Jervis Tetch also known as The Mad Hatter

The think the Riddler is due to be in the next one.

EDIT: Hugo Strange would be nice.
 
I think the new Batman movies and villains will have to move away from Nolan's realism. Or do you guys think they should make a reboot while keeping that concept?
 
They should move away from the realism, yes.
 
A certain amount of realism is always welcome, but you can have realism while adapting the fantastical. It's totally doable.
 
I think the Arkham games are a decent template for the tone of the next attempt at doing Batman onscreen. The games themselves are a more serious and darker take on TAS's view of things. It is done seriously and "gritty" up to a point, but there can be a gothic and fantastic Gotham and it steps just enough with one foot into fantasy you can have characters like Mr. Freeze, Clayface, Killer Croc and Poison Ivy walking around with it neither being awkward or campy.

But given that WB is abandoning that game series for a "Silver Age" themed Justice League-focused Batman series tells me WB is moving to a more light-hearted "Marvel-esque" approach to the character and much of DC. Just a feeling I have since hearing that.
 
Yeah, me too. And it scares the crap out of me since Batman has never been better than with the current approach.
 
Mr Freeze, Black Mask and Hugo Strange would be the ones I'd most like to see. I think Freeze has the potential to be the heart of a movie. Hush too, but only in last installment as I think that in order for him to work, you need to establish multiple other villains first.

Not so interested in seeing Riddler but I'm guessing he'll be a 'lock' as WB will want to use well known, bankable villains. I guess that makes Joker a lock too and Harley along for the ride.
 

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