The New Ghostbusters - Part 5

[TheCommissioner]

im a huge fan of Ghostbusters, loved the movies, watched the cartoon, had the bedsheets and toys

the whole 9

and while this new film is new and probably not ideal for a lot of fans out there, dismissing out of hand is just narrow minded

and also Im a huge fan of Leslie Jones and Kate McKinnon so them getting a chance in this film is really cool to me

if anyone hasn't seen the recent SNL skit with Kate McKinnon and alien abduction, please go watch it

 

[Sithborg]

Not wanting an all female team is not inherently sexist. Now there are some genuinely sexist (and racist) fans out there who have made their feelings known about this project. But consider that many (if not most) fans wanted a diverse team for the next installment. Just not in a way that's the exact opposite of what we had. And definitely not in a complete reboot. Though a complete reboot is probably the only context where that would work.

Can someone please explain to me why all male or mixed is okay, but all female is suddenly a "gimmick" or "pandering", yet sexism doesn't play a part?

 

[Majik1387]

Can someone please explain to me why all male or mixed is okay, but all female is suddenly a "gimmick" or "pandering", yet sexism doesn't play a part?

They can't, and that's why it is sexist.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Can someone please explain to me why all male or mixed is okay, but all female is suddenly a "gimmick" or "pandering", yet sexism doesn't play a part?

They can't, and that's why it is sexist.

You line up 10 people who all say "I don't like this movie because I dont like reboots"

I think Im safe in saying about 6-7 of those people are just using it as a shield for "I dont like women in those roles"

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

You line up 10 people who all say "I don't like this movie because I dont like reboots"

I think Im safe in saying about 6-7 of those people are just using it as a shield for "I dont like women in those roles"

Doubtful. You see this reaction for EVERY reboot of a beloved classic regardless of casting. This movie hasn't had any more criticism than Robocop did when they were rebooting it, and they didn't go and make Robocop a woman.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Doubtful. You see this reaction for EVERY reboot regardless of casting. This movie hasn't had any more criticism than Robocop did when they were rebooting it, and they didn't go and make Robocop a woman or anything.

It kind of has, someone just posted they hope the studio fails or something like that on the previous page

Paul Feig even commented on the amount of crap out there

http://www.theguardian.com/film/201...rs-reboot-criticism-is-vile-misogynistic-****

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It kind of has, someone just posted they hope the studio fails or something like that on the previous page

Paul Feig even commented on the amount of crap out there

Yep. Just like with Robocop.

EDIT: The link doesn't work.

 

[TheCommissioner]

and that's 'reasonable and logical criticism'?

I guess that's my issue...people vomit up all this vitriol and everyone around is just like "eh just expressing an opinion"

 

[Spiderine]

The problem is everybody has their own preference for what they want for the GB franchise. Some people want a continuation of the old guys passing the torch or playing mentors. Some want an all male team like they saw back in the 80's when they became fans played by new actors filling the original roles. Some want a mixed gender team. Some want it based on the Extreme GB cartoon like I was cool with. You not gonna please everyone and some don't want a new film made period. If you don't get a variation of what you want to see you will be disappointed plain and simple.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The only time reboots are largely accepted by fans is if the previous version wasn't very popular in the first place. Batman Begins or the upcoming Spider-Man reboot would be a good example of this.

Even something like Star Trek, which was popular with the general audience, is HATED by many Trekkies.

 

[TheCommissioner]

The only time reboots are largely accepted by fans is if the previous version wasn't very popular in the first place. Batman Begins or the upcoming Spider-Man reboot would be a good example of this.

Even something like Star Trek, which was popular with the general audience, is HATED by many Trekkies.

good

because im sure no one but them wants 20 minutes of people sitting around talking about a problem before actually doing anything

 

[def28]

People are scared of reboots regardless. Because most suck and the further they move away from what a fanbase knows the sketchier they get. If this was a reboot/non sequel with a co-ed cast then there would be a whole new list of complaints and worries about changes without the gender issue taking center stage with many.

Can someone please explain to me why all male or mixed is okay, but all female is suddenly a "gimmick" or "pandering", yet sexism doesn't play a part?

People are seeing it like that because it has gotten too much attention be it people for or against the gender reversal. That's pretty much been all the talk on mainstream sites and comment sections. So at this point and to many, this change has been looked at as a device for attention. If people don't know Feig then even more so. If this was a 2 male and 2 female team then there would be no gender controversy for sites and fans to be pro or anti about. If GB was originally a female led tema then there also would be no attention on the gender here.

Now if people and the media articles were just focused on debating the plot, ghosts, tech and characters instead of debates and think pieces about it being all women, then this wouldn't come off as a gimmick to people. But it's obvious that the gender switch aspect is what our society is far more interested in and want to write about.

 

[Sithborg]

I just have seen too much ugliness in fandoms to just brush it off. It doesn't help that I am certain there are those that don't mean it to come off the way it does, but it still looks sooo bad.

 

[Travesty]

Of course its a gimmick. I don't know how you can deny that? I think the problem, is that people automatically associate the term "gimmick" as being a negative thing. It is what it is. Whether you see that as a pro or con is up to you, but nonetheless, it's a gimmick.

 

[Mike_D202]

Paul did say that he's "having fun switching the gender roles" right after Chris Hemsworth was cast as the secretary. That does sound pretty gimmicky.

 

[Faora]

Another new promo.

 

[PacificBoy]

Of course its a gimmick. I don't know how you can deny that? I think the problem, is that people automatically associate the term "gimmick" as being a negative thing. It is what it is. Whether you see that as a pro or con is up to you, but nonetheless, it's a gimmick.

Agree. Paul Feig specifically wanted to explore the idea of female ghostbusters. In his words:

... four female Ghostbusters to me is really fun. I want to see that dynamic. I want to see that energy and that type of comedy and them going up against these ghosts and going up against human detractors and rivals and that kind of thing.


If the original cast was all-female or mixed, and a follow-up director wanted to do an all-male grouping for similar reasons, it'd be called out as a gimmick too.

Which is fine. Feig excels at women ensemble pieces, it's his wheelhouse. And a successful one at that. What made the original GB work wasn't the concept but the banter and chemistry between the cast. Now let's watch the trailer already.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

These posters are cool. I hope this movie is going to be good or at least fun to watch.

 

[#root]

Can someone please explain to me why all male or mixed is okay, but all female is suddenly a "gimmick" or "pandering", yet sexism doesn't play a part?

This . I get that some people are disappointed that it's not a continuation of the same universe with the characters that they love, but very few people are actually complaining about the reboot aspect, in fact most keep saying that if it had been a mixed cast, they would've been okay with it being a reboot. Now, everytime a reboot of any type is announced, there are a ****ton of complaints, but this time the overwhelming majority seem to be complaining about the all-female cast. People are even complaining that the secretary character is being played by a man . Is that really so offensive? We haven't even seen a second of footage yet so we literally don't know what the humor is going to be like. At least wait till the damn trailer.

 

[Rocketman]

I think the issue is, they went out of their way to make it all-female, whereas they cast Murray, Aykroyd, and Ramis because they were good for their parts. It's the same with all this talk of a female James Bond or a gay James Bond. They're not interested in creating a new character, they're interested in going out of their way to change it drastically.

 

[def28]

But until the movie comes out we don't know if these actresses are good for their parts. While people have a right not to like certain castings it's not fair to say that we know for a fact that these actresses are not good int their new character roles. Yeah, it does look like Feig went out of his way to make sure there was not a male member. But he also the credibility with working with lead female casts to back up his reasoning.

It wasn't gonna look like a gender gimmick with the first all male cast cause it was the first team and nobody was gonna have controversy with it being so. Feig and Sony had to have known that having an all female team instead of male and making Hemsworth the secretary was the thing that was going to grab the most controversy and discussion. So like Travesty said, this is playing out as a gimmick. Which isn't really a bad thing as long as the film itself can back up it's choices upon release.

I just have seen too much ugliness in fandoms to just brush it off. It doesn't help that I am certain there are those that don't mean it to come off the way it does, but it still looks sooo bad.

Wasn't asking you to brush it of at all Sithborg, but you keep asking the same question and I think there have been a few things answering why the reaction has gotten debate all around and not just from the extremist sides.

If the original cast was all-female or mixed, and a follow-up director wanted to do an all-male grouping for similar reasons, it'd be called out as a gimmick too.

Which is fine. Feig excels at women ensemble pieces, it's his wheelhouse. And a successful one at that. What made the original GB work wasn't the concept but the banter and chemistry between the cast. Now let's watch the trailer already.

Yup

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

It's the same with all this talk of a female James Bond or a gay James Bond. They're not interested in creating a new character, they're interested in going out of their way to change it drastically.

I'm kind of angry because they cast Ben Affleck as Batman. I've always wanted Batman to be played by a dwarf, but that will never happen in our "sizeist" society.

 

[Urich Leeds]

When you have no good reason against an all-female team, yes, it is sexist.

I mean I can understand if they changed the gender of the original 4, but they didn't, they created new characters, and the team happens to be all female.

And we have a diverse team, and they all happen to be female.

Why does one have to have a good reason for simply disliking that idea? I, nor necessarily anyone else against it, are saying they hate women...... which IS sexist. They just don't think this is a good idea.

And yeah, I don't. And if I have to give a reason why, it's because it's gimmicky. It's passed off and defended as being progressive and diverse, when it's no more diverse than the original was. The only difference is what parts the characters have up top and down below.

Plain and simple, the director didn't want to leave his comfort zone and pitched an all female version, which is in line with what he's best at. And Sony, who are absolutely desperate for franchises, approved it. And th we need they passed it off as taking a more diverse approach, when it's, again, the director not wanting to leave his comfort zone, and wanting to work with the performers hes had the mostime success working with.. That's not bad... but it's a little more than insulting when one gets called sexist for not agreeing with that.

If they truly wanted to be diverse and progressive, it shouldn't look like this:

Or this:

It should look like this:

And Id venture to say even something like that could do with another female. It'seems a damn shame when a short lived children's cartoon from nearly 2 decades ago can you to shame in the area your take is supposedly built on.

And I'm sorry if this belief is offensive, but making the Ghostbusters all female (regardless of if its the same characters) is a gimmick IMO, and its a cheap way to aim for diversity/a more progressive take on the concept. Now that doesn't inherently make it bad, but that doesn't mean anyone has to like it or agree with either. And simply doing either (neither liking or agreeing) doesn't make someone sexist.

That logic is as bad as those who say being anti-feminist makes you sexist. But that's a whole other discussion I won't get into.

 

[Travesty]

If the original cast was all-female or mixed, and a follow-up director wanted to do an all-male grouping for similar reasons, it'd be called out as a gimmick too.

Exactly. I think people are just being a bit too defensive over this. Gimmicks aren't a bad thing all the time. Look at something like Nolan, who is very much a gimmicky director. His gimmick, is that he shoots half of his movies in IMAX. I think that's pretty cool, and sure enough, the gimmick works for me to buy an IMAX ticket to his movies. And when I'm in the theater, I enjoy the IMAX scenes(I don't enjoy them when it comes to DVD, though). Or take Avatar for another example: its gimmick was that it was shot in 3D, and again, it worked, cause I watched it in 3D, when I normally don't do that. I also thought it looked great in 3D, too.

Pointing out a gimmick isn't a bad thing, and gimmicks themselves aren't necessarily a bad thing, either. But what I don't like seeing, is people branding others as a misogynist in this thread, just because they pointed out an obvious gimmick. Do you honestly think we all hate women because we pointed out the obvious?

 

[TheCommissioner]

I just have seen too much ugliness in fandoms to just brush it off. It doesn't help that I am certain there are those that don't mean it to come off the way it does, but it still looks sooo bad.

agree completely