The NEW Justice League Casting and Discussion Thread

[Timstuff]

They can give him more gadgets and better armor, and they can let him fly in the Bat Jet in some of the big action scenes. It would be cool if he was one aerial action scene where Wonder Woman is his wingmate in the invisible jet.

 

[Godzilla2014]

They can give him more gadgets and better armor, and they can let him fly in the Bat Jet in some of the big action scenes. It would be cool if he was one aerial action scene where Wonder Woman is his wingmate in the invisible jet.

I am thinking he should have a powered exoskeleton armored up. Something that could enhance him to Superman's level of power (strength, speed, et cetera). I might be fine with him using the Batwing if Wonder Woman has to use the Invisible Jet, but if she doesn't, then I would like him to simply have someway to fly without a jet that he has to park. I just don't want Batman to be that guy everyone has to wait for him to catchup, because then we start to see less of the "Badass" and more of the "Normal" in "Badass Normal".

 

[Mr. Earle]

God i hate the invisible jet! Its the single most stupid thing in comics.

 

[Timstuff]

I am thinking he should have a powered exoskeleton armored up. Something that could enhance him to Superman's level of power (strength, speed, et cetera). I might be fine with him using the Batwing if Wonder Woman has to use the Invisible Jet, but if she doesn't, then I would like him to simply have someway to fly without a jet that he has to park. I just don't want Batman to be that guy everyone has to wait for him to catchup, because then we start to see less of the "Badass" and more of the "Normal" in "Badass Normal".

I do not want to see Batman going toe-to-toe with Superman in terms of strength. He is not supposed to have power like that, and when you make him that powerful, suddenly he's like a different character. Batman is capable of making himself virtually invisible due to his stealth training, and that alone makes him a highly valuable member of the team, not to mention his peak human intelligence and huge arsenal of weapons and gadgets. If you want someone with robotics-augmented strength, you might as well be looking at Steel or Cyborg. Batman's armor should provide him with protection, but I do not want them to turn him into Iron Man.

 

[Timstuff]

God i hate the invisible jet! Its the single most stupid thing in comics.

What if it's just a jet with a cloaking device that can be turned on and off? Yes, the image of Wonder Woman sitting on an invisible chair flying through the sky is very stupid, but that's simply a bad visualization of what could be a cool vehicle.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I do not want to see Batman going toe-to-toe with Superman in terms of strength. He is not supposed to have power like that, and when you make him that powerful, suddenly he's like a different character. Batman is capable of making himself virtually invisible due to his stealth training, and that alone makes him a highly valuable member of the team, not to mention his peak human intelligence and huge arsenal of weapons and gadgets. If you want someone with robotics-augmented strength, you might as well be looking at Steel or Cyborg. Batman's armor should provide him with protection, but I do not want them to turn him into Iron Man.

I agree about the change in character, but there's really no other way he can help his teammates in the field that necessitates or justifies his presence alongside them instead of assisting them remotely.

 

[Timstuff]

I agree about the change in character, but there's really no other way he can help his teammates in the field that necessitates or justifies his presence alongside them instead of assisting them remotely.

Not really. He does not need superhuman strength, just a good set of Bat-themed weapons and tools.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I do not want to see Batman going toe-to-toe with Superman in terms of strength. He is not supposed to have power like that, and when you make him that powerful, suddenly he's like a different character. Batman is capable of making himself virtually invisible due to his stealth training, and that alone makes him a highly valuable member of the team, not to mention his peak human intelligence and huge arsenal of weapons and gadgets. If you want someone with robotics-augmented strength, you might as well be looking at Steel or Cyborg. Batman's armor should provide him with protection, but I do not want them to turn him into Iron Man.

I second this so much!!!

Also, he could use his vehicles, but it would be a crutch for him really. Just use him in smart ways. Use his stealth, his cunning, his brains, his gadgets. He doesnt have to be the one to punch Darkseid, but he could sneak into his ships and disable them or whatever while dealing with the Furries or apocoliptan soldiers. Batman can beat the Furries right? Hm... maybe not...

To give you some examples in Morrison's first JLA story Batman was the first to figure out they were martians and so he simply used a book of matches and some gasoline to take 5 of them at the same time. Every other JL member managed to get one martian each.

In Final Crisis Batman is adbucted to be cloned for an army of perfect soldiers. He escapes and happens to have with him the radion bullet that killed Orion and is toxic to the New Gods. Bye bye Darkseid!

Stuff like that. Btw, Batman's escape in Final Crisis is easily in the top 5 most epic batman moments of all time. EPIC!

 

[Mr. Earle]

What if it's just a jet with a cloaking device that can be turned on and off? Yes, the image of Wonder Woman sitting on an invisible chair flying through the sky is very stupid, but that's simply a bad visualization of what could be a cool vehicle.

I never saw the point of it if she can fly anyway.

Like i said in a previous discussion, the amazon's tech seems rather arbitrary. They have an invisible jet and a machine with healing rays but they fight with bows and arrows. Tech up the Amazons full time and i'll be the biggest champion of the jet. As it stands it seems arbitrary and stupid, like some writer who was on crack introduced it in the 50ies and now we have to accept the product of his weed induced inspiration because "its iconic". No, its stupid.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Not really. He does not need superhuman strength, just a good set of Bat-themed weapons and tools.

In a direct confrontation with anything that give his teammates trouble, that wouldn't cut it, unless you're saying he should be fighting alongside the rest of the Justice League. Anything that can fight Superman to even a standstill would cream Batman.

I second this so much!!!

Also, he could use his vehicles, but it would be a crutch for him really. Just use him in smart ways. Use his stealth, his cunning, his brains, his gadgets. He doesnt have to be the one to punch Darkseid, but he could sneak into his ships and disable them or whatever while dealing with the Furries or apocoliptan warriors. Batman can beat the Furries right? Hm... maybe not...

To give you some examples in Morrison's first JLA story Batman was the first to figure out they were martians and he then used a book of matches and some gasoline to take 5 of them at the same time. Every other JL member managed to get one martian each.

In Final Crisis Batman is adbucted to be cloned for an army of perfect soldiers. He escapes and happens to have with him the radion bullet that killed Orion and is toxic to the New Gods. Bye bye Darkseid!

Stuff like that. Btw, Batman's escape in Final Crisis is easily in the top 5 most epic batman moments of all time. EPIC!

Pretty much that would be what he could do. Commanding, strategies and tactics, and leadership, but that would make him much better off leading the JL from afar, via radios or what have you.

 

[Timstuff]

I never saw the point of it if she can fly anyway.

Like i said in a previous discussion, the amazon's tech seems rather arbitrary. They have an invisible jet and a machine with healing rays but they fight with bows and arrows. Tech up the Amazons full time and i'll be the biggest champion of the jet. As it stands it seems arbitrary and stupid, like some writer who was on crack introduced it in the 50ies and now we have to accept the product of his weed induced inspiration because "its iconic". No, its stupid.

I agree that the Amazons need to be portrayed as either high-tech or old fashioned, because in the comics not making up their mind about which it is has caused some very crappy and inconsistent writing in the past. The Jet does not have to be made by the Amazons, though. Steve Trevor is an Air Force officer and an agent of the US government, and he essentially acts as Diana's handler when she operates with U.S. intelligence. If she is co-operating with a U.S. agency then it's plausible that Steve would hook her up with an advanced stealth fighter to use on missions.

 

[Mr. Earle]

In a direct confrontation with anything that give his teammates trouble, that wouldn't cut it, unless you're saying he should be fighting alongside the rest of the Justice League. Anything that can fight Superman to even a standstill would cream Batman.

Just think that the Flash can run so fast that he can travel through time. He can be at the other side of the earth before Superman even blinks. So you can see that if you start talking about these things you ll get nowhere. The Flash basically renders the rest of the league useless. So for the JL to work, you have to suspend your disbelief.

Pretty much that would be what he could do. Commanding, strategies and tactics, and leadership, but that would make him much better off leading the JL from afar, via radios or what have you.

But that's boring. Watch the JL cartoon or read Morrison's JL run. They re both great. Batman can be very useful even on the battlefield.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I agree that the Amazons need to be portrayed as either high-tech or old fashioned, because in the comics not making up their mind about which it is has caused some very crappy and inconsistent writing in the past.

Thank you. Every time i discuss this purists defend the jet like the best idea in comics simply because it was there from the start. Things change you know, and sometimes the idea of "lol its comics anything goes" doesnt cut it. Sometimes stupid is just stupid.

The Jet does not have to be made by the Amazons, though. Steve Trevor is an Air Force officer and an agent of the US government, and he essentially acts as Diana's handler when she operates with U.S. intelligence. If she is co-operating with a U.S. agency then it's plausible that Steve would hook her up with an advanced stealth fighter to use on missions.

I guess so. For me it would be a lot better if the amazons were tricked out like the Asgardians are at Marvel. WW has always been about mythology and magic, (and in the trinity science fiction is taken by Superman while Batman has noir and crime drama) pimp out the Amazons with magical weapons, objects, anything. Screw the jet, give her a Pegasus, or a dragon, or whatever. Instead of Themiscyra looking like Athens, go nuts, have it flying, have it on top of a giant tree, etc. In other words make them advanced but in a magical and mystical way. Give WW the atmosphere one feels when playing Zelda for instance.

It would definitely interest me more than this "we live in an ancient greek city placed in the middle of the ocean and we fight with swords. Meanwhile our champion has a jet and she shoves feminism down people's throats". **** that, that's boring.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Just think that the Flash can run so fast that he can travel through time. He can be at the other side of the earth before Superman even blinks. So you can see that if you start talking about these things you ll get nowhere. The Flash basically renders the rest of the league useless. So for the JL to work, you have to suspend your disbelief.

That is something that my suspension of disbelief doesn't cover. If the Flash could do that, then why call together all the other heroes who presumably have other things to do then fight as the Justice League? Is whoever calls the assembly an *******? I don't think the Flash is intended to be that powerful.

But that's boring. Watch the JL cartoon or read Morrison's JL run. They re both great. Batman can be very useful even on the battlefield.

It may be boring, but it's better than Batman being a hassle to everyone else in-theater or getting killed.
I did watch the Justice League animated series, but I haven't read Morrison's run. I remember that sometimes, Batman might provide close air support with the Batwing, then it would get taken down because it doesn't have the proper defenses against whatever they're fighting, so one of his teammates would have to stop fighting the threat so they could rescue him. That's just pointless. By not simply staying at HQ and sending a drone to do the CAS work, he has just taken himself and the rescuing teammate out of the battle. It's completely pointless to me, and out of character. How many people might have died that the teammate could have rescue if Batman hadn't put himself in danger. If you can't take the heat, stay the hell out of the kitchen, and when you're Batman, you can't take the heat like Superman or Wonder Woman. By doing this, Batman is making the jobs of his JL teammates harder, not easier, by putting his ass in danger so that he needs to be rescued.

Many of his successful close-combat encounters without intervention required inconsistencies and/or ********, such as taking on Parademons that gave Superman a run for his money. This robs the whole event of the sense of danger that is the entire point.

This is why I believe if Batman is going to assist the JL in-theater, he needs some serious enhancement.

 

[Mr. Earle]

That is something that my suspension of disbelief doesn't cover. If the Flash could do that, then why call together all the other heroes who presumably have other things to do then fight as the Justice League? Is whoever calls the assembly an *******? I don't think the Flash is intended to be that powerful.

But he is that powerful. Just google "the mother****ing flash". I would post it here but it has abusive language (its hilarious). Abusive language aside, everything it says about the flash is true.

Why form the JL? Because its cool, because all our favourite heroes band together and fight evil. You might as well be asking why is Batman training other batmen across the world when we have the JL? Or why doesnt he call Superman whenever he's in deep ****? Well because its comics, leave your logic at the door.

It may be boring, but it's better than Batman being a hassle to everyone else in-theater or getting killed.
I did watch the Justice League animated series, but I haven't read Morrison's run. I remember that sometimes, Batman might provide close air support with the Batwing, then it would get taken down because it doesn't have the proper defenses against whatever they're fighting, so one of his teammates would have to stop fighting the threat so they could rescue him. That's just pointless. By not simply staying at HQ and sending a drone to do the CAS work, he has just taken himself and the rescuing teammate out of the battle. It's completely pointless to me, and out of character. How many people might have died that the teammate could have rescue if Batman hadn't put himself in danger. If you can't take the heat, stay the hell out of the kitchen, and when you're Batman, you can't take the heat like Superman or Wonder Woman. By doing this, Batman is making the jobs of his JL teammates harder, not easier, by putting his ass in danger so that he needs to be rescued.

Many of his successful close-combat encounters without intervention required inconsistencies and/or ********, such as taking on Parademons that gave Superman a run for his money. This robs the whole event of the sense of danger that is the entire point.

This is why I believe if Batman is going to assist the JL in-theater, he needs some serious enhancement.

You re using too much logic in a story about a guy in a bat suit teaming up with a guy that can run faster than the speed of light and a guy who shoots lasers out of his eyes. Nolan, what have you done?

Batman can be useful on the battlefield if the writer is competent. And like i said the Flash makes everyone worthless, so its not just batman you ll need to suspend your disbelief for.

 

[Godzilla2014]

But he is that powerful. Just google "the mother****ing flash". I would post it here but it has abusive language (its hilarious). Abusive language aside, everything it says about the flash is true.

Why form the JL? Because its cool, because all our favourite heroes band together and fight evil. You might as well be asking why is Batman training other batmen across the world when we have the JL? Or why doesnt he call Superman whenever he's in deep ****? Well because its comics, leave your logic at the door.

I'm talking about in-universe internal logic. Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Flash don't care about it being cool to team-up, they would only do so if they needed to. Besides, I don't really give a **** about Flash. He can go run off the edge of the Earth for maybe a little less than I care.

You re using too much logic in a story about a guy in a bat suit teaming up with a guy that can run faster than the speed of light and a guy who shoots lasers out of his eyes. Nolan, what have you done?

Logic is not the enemy. This is not Nolan's doing, I am just an ******* who likes to be able to think without my brain hurting. Also, I think I am allergic to ********.

Batman can be useful on the battlefield if the writer is competent. And like i said the Flash makes everyone worthless, so its not just batman you ll need to suspend your disbelief for.

No he isn't really. ******** is ********, and my ******** sense is tingling. The only way he's nearly as useful on the battlefield as his teammates is if the enemy becomes weaker for no apparent reason. Superman would kick Batman's ass in a second, as would anything that could fight Superman to a standstill. And that's being generous. If you would like to state that he can kick the asses of enemies that can, in turn, kick Superman's ass, then Congratulations! You've rendered his human weaknesses and limitations completely irrelevant! You might as well give him give him a powered exoskeleton at that point, because nothing would be lost.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I'm talking about in-universe internal logic. Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Flash don't care about it being cool to team-up, they would only do so if they needed to. Besides, I don't really give a **** about Flash. He can go run off the edge of the Earth for maybe a little less than I care.

Well then, stick to the batman movies.

Logic is not the enemy. This is not Nolan's doing, I am just an ******* who likes to be able to think without my brain hurting. Also, I think I am allergic to ********.

Then you must understand that the JL was created because it was cool, not because it made sense in the universe.

Its like how Batman's suit was designed to look cool first and they explained some parts of it second. If you cant accept that, then JL isnt for you. Hell, not even Batman is for you, but i wont go there again because everytime i mention some of his illogical issues you find a way to defend them as if its natural that a man would dress like that in real life and fight armed men with punches.

Its comics and depending on the franchise you might have to suspend your disbelief to varying degrees.

No he isn't really. ******** is ********, and my ******** sense is tingling. The only way he's nearly as useful on the battlefield as his teammates is if the enemy becomes weaker for no apparent reason. Superman would kick Batman's ass in a second, as would anything that could fight Superman to a standstill. And that's being generous. If you would like to state that he can kick the asses of enemies that can, in turn, kick Superman's ass, then Congratulations! You've rendered his human weaknesses and limitations completely irrelevant! You might as well give him give him a powered exoskeleton at that point, because nothing would be lost.

And the result is:



The other JL members beat 1 martian each, batman beat 4 through cunning. You were saying?

 

[Ponyboy]

I picked:

Superman
Batman
GL (Hal Jordan)
Wonder Woman
Flash (Barry Allen)
Aquaman
Martian Manhunter

I'd rather see the film end with Aquaman and Martian Manhunter coming into the fray... an intergalactic threat perhaps that requires (or forces) the likes of Aquaman to leave his kingdom... so the bulk of the film can focus on the fab 5. Just a thought.

 

[protocida]

^ That doesn't cout. Morrison's Batman has the superpower of preptime. It makes him more powerful than Darkseid, the Anti-Monitor, Nekron, Krona and the Extant put together.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Well then, stick to the batman movies.

I don't think there's much choice until Green Lantern comes out.

Then you must understand that the JL was created because it was cool, not because it made sense in the universe.

Its like how Batman's suit was designed to look cool first and they explained some parts of it second. If you cant accept that, then JL isnt for you. Hell, not even Batman is for you, but i wont go there again because everytime i mention some of his illogical issues you find a way to defend them as if its natural that a man would dress like that in real life and fight armed men with punches.

I understand it's done because it's cool. But there should be a good reason that, in the context of the story, they team up. It's called good writing.

Its comics and depending on the franchise you might have to suspend your disbelief to varying degrees.


And the result is:



The other JL members beat 1 martian each, batman beat 4 through cunning. You were saying?

This is true, and a good example of how Batman fights such threats, but my primary concern was that I don't want Batman to be shown beating up a foe that gives Superman trouble, and doing so without having to fight smartly/dirty, such as he was in battles with the Parademons in the Justice League series. That completely misses the point of Batman as a human character.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I picked:

Superman
Batman
GL (Hal Jordan)
Wonder Woman
Flash (Barry Allen)
Aquaman
Martian Manhunter

I'd rather see the film end with Aquaman and Martian Manhunter coming into the fray... an intergalactic threat perhaps that requires (or forces) the likes of Aquaman to leave his kingdom... so the bulk of the film can focus on the fab 5. Just a thought.

I want to see Green Arrow. If necessary, replace Aquaman with him.

^ That doesn't cout. Morrison's Batman has the superpower of preptime. It makes him more powerful than Darkseid, the Anti-Monitor, Nekron, Krona and the Extant put together.

No, Batman's superpower is badassery, not prep-time.

 

[protocida]

I want an adaptation of either "Justice", "The New Frontier" or "New World Order".

 

[Mr. Earle]

I understand it's done because it's cool. But there should be a good reason that, in the context of the story, they team up. It's called good writing.

It makes sense because the villains the JL fights cant be handled by one hero, so they team up and everyone pitches in. But, in a fight with people on multiple power levels you have to make some compromises for everyone to work. Morrison used the New Gods as actual gods (they were punching bags for Superman till then) and he still found a way to give batman a role to play, if not give him the most awesome moments of the story.

This is true, and a good example of how Batman fights such threats, but my primary concern was that I don't want Batman to be shown beating up a foe that gives Superman trouble, and doing so without having to fight smartly/dirty, such as he was in battles with the Parademons in the Justice League series. That completely misses the point of Batman as a human character.

Oh i agree with you there but really i dont think anyone had Batman punch Brainiac or Darkseid. Those parademons you mentioned were weak anyway and many villains were depowered in the DCU. I mean Batman dodges DS' Omega beams when in the comics they travel though space, time, even reality itself to find you and **** you up.

^ That doesn't cout. Morrison's Batman has the superpower of preptime. It makes him more powerful than Darkseid, the Anti-Monitor, Nekron, Krona and the Extant put together.

Really, and what comics count?

And being able to light a fire takes preptime and makes him a batgod?

 

[Mr. Earle]

I picked:

Superman
Batman
GL (Hal Jordan)
Wonder Woman
Flash (Barry Allen)
Aquaman
Martian Manhunter

I'd rather see the film end with Aquaman and Martian Manhunter coming into the fray... an intergalactic threat perhaps that requires (or forces) the likes of Aquaman to leave his kingdom... so the bulk of the film can focus on the fab 5. Just a thought.

I love Aquaman but i cant see him in space. He needs the plot to involve the sea otherwise he's just a guy who hits hard.

I guess if the JL movie involved the sea, he could join them for that mission as a guest star.

 

[protocida]

^ I'm kidding, bro. Batman is serious business for you, I've noticed.

But seriously, Morrison's Batman has insane amounts of preptime and out-of-nowhere technology going for him. I sorta' liked that. Like how he randomly has a device to cloak his heartbeats in "New World Order", simply because he's Batman, and he does that ****.