The New Nova

[NinjinSteve]

Neil Gaiman joining Guardians of the Galaxy and now Zeb Wells is taking over Nova...

There is hope. I can deal with this.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Gaiman is only co-writing one issue and Zebs only has Nova for 5 issues.

 

[THANOSRULES]

Zeb Wells is not a good choice. Paco Medina is a good choice.

I believe New Warriors Vol. 3 was the low point of Richard Rider and the Warriors, even moreso than Civil War.

It was exactly what I had in mind when i said Nova fans and Warriors fans had to sift through a lot of garbage...and it wasnt just the fault of Young's obnoxious pencils.

Literally everyone in that book acted out of character and all the characters in that book were damaged goods. It was one of the worst comic mini's of all time IMO.

Wells is good at writing juvenile Spidey stories...which is what we'll get. Not good.

 

[THANOSRULES]

My guess is Gaimen will be taking a shot at Silver Surfer and is warming up with some work on GOTG...

 

[Mr. Dent]

Wells is good at writing juvenile Spidey stories...which is what we'll get. Not good.

I know where you're coming from. Thing about this is, Sam is supposed to be a juvenile Spider-Man.

My guess is Gaimen will be taking a shot at Silver Surfer and is warming up with some work on GOTG...

Ohh, didn't think about Gaiman being on Silver Surfer. I figured we'd be getting a new Silver Surfer ongoing in the relatively near future (maybe as soon as Wave 2) but didn't connect that to Gaiman. I figured his first full time project at Marvel would be a Marvelman limited series or ongoing. Maybe he could role Marvelman and Angela into a Silver Surfer ongoing?

 

[NinjinSteve]

I've only read a few titles by Zeb Wells but I did like what I read. Never read his New Warriors though. So maybe that is my mistake there. Still, I'm willing to give him a chance. Even if it is for only a few issues.

It seems strange that Gaiman would ONLY be co-writing a single issue? What the heck would be in it for him to even waste his time with that? I read here that he would be taking over co-writing duties from this point on in the series:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/21/neil-gaiman-returns-to-marvel-comics

 

[Mr. Dent]

Angela is going to be in it.

 

[JewishHobbit]

New Avengers vol. 3 was decent for what it was. But yeah, it was no New Warriors.

 

[JewishHobbit]

HERE'S the link to an article discussing Zeb Wells and Paco Madina joining the book on issue 6.

While I liked issue 2 better than issue 1, I'm more excited for the book under Wells and Madina. It will likely only be temporary, as Loeb says he'll be back to tell another story he has in mind, likely early next year, so it sounds like it might end up being arc by arc for a few issues.

I do like that Loeb's initial 5-issue arc is pretty much the origin and then Wells will essentially start out after AvX and get us up to date.

 

[sandwraith]

So I finally got around to reading the first 2 issues.

I didn't hate them. Sam seems like a decent new character and the comparisons to Jamie Reyes Blue Beetle seem warranted.

My gripe is with the presence of the Black Novas which isn't very consistent with Nova canon. This seems to indicate to me that as far as the NOW imprint is concerned, Annihilation, Conquest, War of Kings and the Thanos Imperative never happened. So its not really a soft reboot but a painfully hard one.

It hurts but it makes sense if the target audience isn't really the older fans but new younger readers whose first exposure to the Nova character was probably from Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon. The art is excellent but since nothing really spectacular happens as yet, we haven't seen McGuiness stretch his stuff.

Overall I am pretty ok with this title. Some of the cliches were sore to look at and Rocket being a berserker is a tad ridiculous but I think it should get better at some point.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Oh, Marvel NOW isn't rebooting the cosmic landscape, as Star Lord's final fate in Thanos Imperative has been quickly mentioned twice now (by Bendis). Nova's not mentioned Rider but I get the feeling they're wanting to let this Sam kid grow on his own first. And really, the story is from his p.o.v. I don't really see any reason for him to know or hear anything about Rider yet. As long as it comes eventually, I'm not worried about it.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Oh, and I thought it was interesting. I think it was in that link I posted up there, but I Loeb (I think it was Loeb) said that Sam Alexander is a Comics first character, not a cartoon first character. He said that he arranged it so that Sam appeared in the Point One oneshot before the Spider-Man episode so that he would have origins in the comics and not the show.

It isn't really a big deal but I actually appreciate the notion.

 

[sandwraith]

Oh, and I thought it was interesting. I think it was in that link I posted up there, but I Loeb (I think it was Loeb) said that Sam Alexander is a Comics first character, not a cartoon first character. He said that he arranged it so that Sam appeared in the Point One oneshot before the Spider-Man episode so that he would have origins in the comics and not the show.

It isn't really a big deal but I actually appreciate the notion.

While I hope that is true, I think that Loeb had intended to make the character more cartoon-ish anyway and that the appearance in Point One was a toe in the water. Not that it matters where he made his first appearance. Characters like Firestar and Harley Quinn were cartoon characters first before eventually being absorbed into the comic continuity. Its just a matter of how well its executed.

Regarding Zeb Wells....I like some of his work. I'm ok with most of it. I've never really hated any of his stuff so I'm actually looking forward to seeing his and Medina(Madina?)'s take on the character.

 

[sandwraith]

Oh, Marvel NOW isn't rebooting the cosmic landscape, as Star Lord's final fate in Thanos Imperative has been quickly mentioned twice now (by Bendis). Nova's not mentioned Rider but I get the feeling they're wanting to let this Sam kid grow on his own first. And really, the story is from his p.o.v. I don't really see any reason for him to know or hear anything about Rider yet. As long as it comes eventually, I'm not worried about it.

If Jesse Alexander claimed in his stories to be the GREATEST of all the Novas for whatever reason and makes absolutely no mention of some of the most brutal space combat consisting of the Negative Zone invaders, the Phalanx, the War of Kings and the Cancerverse invasion...clearly dropping Rider's name despite being a "Gold dome" would have been a given. It wasn't a Black Nova that pulled Annihilus inside out, nor was it a Black Nova who traveled to Warlock's homeworld to gain the cure for the Transmode virus....et etc

I can see that maybe the Black Novas operate on a different system free of the Xandarian Worldmind so that they have plausible deniability and why they weren't affected by Xandar's destruction after the Annihilation Wave hit. But it really feels off, like a chunk of canon being ignored.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Being that Jesse Alexander seems to have been out of the game for at least the duration of Sam's life, I think it makes sense that he wouldn't mention Rider. The corps was destroyed during Annihilation before Rider became who he was post-Annihilation, and Rider's deeds weren't exactly well known on Earth afterwords. It could just be that Jesse didn't KNOW about Rider.

 

[THANOSRULES]

Unless Jesse is Rich, sent back in time...Phoenix said Sam "doesnt belong"

 

[sandwraith]

Being that Jesse Alexander seems to have been out of the game for at least the duration of Sam's life, I think it makes sense that he wouldn't mention Rider. The corps was destroyed during Annihilation before Rider became who he was post-Annihilation, and Rider's deeds weren't exactly well known on Earth afterwords. It could just be that Jesse didn't KNOW about Rider.

But in Jesse's time, Rocket and Gamora are ALREADY Guardians which seems to indicate that he was around post-Annihilation/Conquest. Its stretching. I have a feeling that Loeb didn't really have a care about continuity.

 

[THANOSRULES]

Being that Jesse Alexander seems to have been out of the game for at least the duration of Sam's life, I think it makes sense that he wouldn't mention Rider. The corps was destroyed during Annihilation before Rider became who he was post-Annihilation, and Rider's deeds weren't exactly well known on Earth afterwords. It could just be that Jesse didn't KNOW about Rider.

JH..you don't know your Nova history! DnA made a continuity error when they depicted RR as a cherry Corpsman in the AI Prelude mini. He was literally the greatest centurion ever and lone survivor of the Corps 2 x over...even before annihilation..it was a continuity error that depicted him otherwise..which wasnt the first time it had happened either.

My Rich is Jesse theory, which i dont really beleive, would maybe provided an explanation as to why Racoon and Gamora were active in that 17 year time...well before they should have. Maybe he sought them out before there time....but more likely it's just loeb fitting a square peg in a round hole.

 

[Dread]

Wow, I think this is the first time I've ever seen you rank someone lower than Bendis.

I'm proud of you

And for the record, I agree. I've defended Loeb at times but the only stuff of his that I've really enjoyed over the past 10 or so years were Hush and Fallen Son. I don't even think I'd rank the rest as mediocre. You obviously liked X-Sanction more than I did.

Unlike Loeb, even I can admit that Bendis, even if by fluke, has managed to produce some work within the past decade or so which was above average. Hell, his final issue of MIGHTY AVENGERS was actually pretty good, and that's off the top of my head. Next to FEAR ITSELF, his SIEGE looked downright novel. And Bendis will always have much of his DAREDEVIL run or the first few years of ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN.

But also unlike Loeb, Bendis has little ability to influence an entire alternate media wing of Marvel Entertainment, while Loeb does. That's a big role and a big position towards how audiences outside the comics sphere see and/or are introduced to the characters. "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN", at best, presumes its audience is incapable of any coherent and consistent rational thought and that it's never read a book or done anything aside for play video games or watch music videos online. And if it is wrong, it offers no alternative. It was the first show that Loeb was the TV czar for from concept to present and it's a rather unflattering picture of how he views the future of Marvel Animation. Frankly, he'd probably consider Ms. Lions too highbrow.

There are some good points in here, I'd vehemetly agree about Loeb as a "hack" in much of his work...however he is still a guy who is considered A list and a guy who can sell something just based off his name.

My arguments for supporting the book are:

-Blind support for Nova, the franchise and even Richard Rider..I feel like the Marvel editorial administration is petty and vindictive against characters. If Nova fails with Loeb and Mcg on staff with all the promo work...no Nova, let alone Rider will get a shot for years...this staff holds grudges and is not afraid to earmark characters as flawed and unworkable...and they use there own twisted logic in this formula.

..However, if the book sells, Rider will be back soon enough within the pages...and I don't think Loeb will last forever on the title. Whacker himself said he had a finite tenure on the book planned, and that it would be less than his Hulk stint. I give Loeb 12 issues on this...then maybe we get a decent writer who could do some interesting things with a Legacy.

-I'd also even go as far to say that some degree of exposure (IE giving them ongoings) to B list characters in general, is at stake here under the same logic.

-I know this defies conventional logic on how to spend ones 4 bucks..but it's Nova man not something like T-bolts (which I've dropped).

-The art has been top notch
-I've hoped for a redemption for Loeb as writer.
-I dont think the writing has been bad so far...
-I dont think the out of continuity stuff has been that bad thus far..
-Cliche's are there...but some of the stuff has been written quite well..the book has strengths and weakness.

-It is interesting to see if Nova get's a shot at the Avengers as was promised in AvX...if that happens, you likely will get Hickman or Remender doing stuff with him , and that really could be a good thing. I'd like to see that through, even if it's Sam.

-Which also shows me this Nova will be relevant within the whole Marvel U...which is a reason to find out what is going on. I dont think this will be as self contained as past Nova or cosmic books.

-Let me also say that some of the gripes of the continuity stuff are ridiculous. At what point does this become some sort of ***** about any "new ideas"...the lore of the Nova Corps is spotty especially in the older days..this "black corps" is not that ridiculous.

-Nova and New Warriors fans have seen a ton of retcons and disrespectful or poor continuity/character progression. Eric Larsen's series really turned back Rich to basically his persona and life in the 70s series, after he developed nicely in his NW Vol.1 and Nova Vol 2 series. NW vol. 2 did the same thing to Rich...it was ghastly. True Nova fans shouldnt act like we have some sacred timeline of continuity..'cause we dont...and it's not a good excuse to not support the book.

(and btw I can really remember people getting on DnA for showing RR as a green and unrecognized Centurion in the Annihilation I Nova mini series, and that turned out ok )

I read Ultimatum and Ultimates 3 and those were piles of crap...i didnt finish either of them. This stuff is not that bad.

You have a fair point but I often consider blind support for any franchise dangerous because it is often misunderstood. If NOVA is a hit now, it'll be Sam Alexander who reaps the benefit and the Loeb vision of the franchise which is maintained. After all, the initial high sales of HULK have kept Red Hulk around and defended the feat of making, literally, everyone in Bruce Banner's supporting cast a Hulk - to the point that Mark Waid literally had to replace and remove them from Banner's life.

Marvel often revives franchises for the purpose of trademarks but it doesn't always bring back what people loved best about them. NEW WARRIORS, NAMOR, and DR. STRANGE, and even GHOST RIDER, have all seem some bizarre or shockingly counter productive premises rather than just realizing that sometimes books fail due to a poor writer, or poor timing, or just the fact that not everything can remain the same level of a hit forever. I mean, WOLVERINE has sold at historic lows over the years, yet you don't see him relaunched as a pop singer reality show star cyborg. Even if, to be fair, we have seen him relaunched playing sidekick to Frank Cho's softcore jungle porn project.

I'm wary of Zeb Wells as well. He can be hit or miss. But at least he's not handling Rider again. It does bemuse me that Loeb's run on NOVA will either be short or require fill in's.

Oh, and I thought it was interesting. I think it was in that link I posted up there, but I Loeb (I think it was Loeb) said that Sam Alexander is a Comics first character, not a cartoon first character. He said that he arranged it so that Sam appeared in the Point One oneshot before the Spider-Man episode so that he would have origins in the comics and not the show.

It isn't really a big deal but I actually appreciate the notion.

While that might be true in terms of air dates, it's not exactly true. Animated series begin production often up to a year before they air, so the character of Sam Alexander as Nova would have been drafted, designed, scripted, and performed by a voice actor months before POINT ONE #1 hit the stands. So either Jeph Loeb is unaware of the structure of the medium he is literally czar of, or he's bending the truth for the sake of propaganda.

Assuming he did actually say that in an interview, of course.

After all, while X-23 technically didn't debut in "X-MEN EVOLUTION" until her first episode debuted in 2003, she would have been drafted, designed, written, and voice performed likely in 2002 in real life.

 

[THANOSRULES]

Unlike Loeb, even I can admit that Bendis, even if by fluke, has managed to produce some work within the past decade or so which was above average. Hell, his final issue of MIGHTY AVENGERS was actually pretty good, and that's off the top of my head. Next to FEAR ITSELF, his SIEGE looked downright novel. And Bendis will always have much of his DAREDEVIL run or the first few years of ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN.

But also unlike Loeb, Bendis has little ability to influence an entire alternate media wing of Marvel Entertainment, while Loeb does. That's a big role and a big position towards how audiences outside the comics sphere see and/or are introduced to the characters. "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN", at best, presumes its audience is incapable of any coherent and consistent rational thought and that it's never read a book or done anything aside for play video games or watch music videos online. And if it is wrong, it offers no alternative. It was the first show that Loeb was the TV czar for from concept to present and it's a rather unflattering picture of how he views the future of Marvel Animation. Frankly, he'd probably consider Ms. Lions too highbrow.



You have a fair point but I often consider blind support for any franchise dangerous because it is often misunderstood. If NOVA is a hit now, it'll be Sam Alexander who reaps the benefit and the Loeb vision of the franchise which is maintained. After all, the initial high sales of HULK have kept Red Hulk around and defended the feat of making, literally, everyone in Bruce Banner's supporting cast a Hulk - to the point that Mark Waid literally had to replace and remove them from Banner's life.

Marvel often revives franchises for the purpose of trademarks but it doesn't always bring back what people loved best about them. NEW WARRIORS, NAMOR, and DR. STRANGE, and even GHOST RIDER, have all seem some bizarre or shockingly counter productive premises rather than just realizing that sometimes books fail due to a poor writer, or poor timing, or just the fact that not everything can remain the same level of a hit forever. I mean, WOLVERINE has sold at historic lows over the years, yet you don't see him relaunched as a pop singer reality show star cyborg. Even if, to be fair, we have seen him relaunched playing sidekick to Frank Cho's softcore jungle porn project.

I'm wary of Zeb Wells as well. He can be hit or miss. But at least he's not handling Rider again. It does bemuse me that Loeb's run on NOVA will either be short or require fill in's.



While that might be true in terms of air dates, it's not exactly true. Animated series begin production often up to a year before they air, so the character of Sam Alexander as Nova would have been drafted, designed, scripted, and performed by a voice actor months before POINT ONE #1 hit the stands. So either Jeph Loeb is unaware of the structure of the medium he is literally czar of, or he's bending the truth for the sake of propaganda.

Assuming he did actually say that in an interview, of course.

After all, while X-23 technically didn't debut in "X-MEN EVOLUTION" until her first episode debuted in 2003, she would have been drafted, designed, written, and voice performed likely in 2002 in real life.

Essentially a lot of what I said is out the window now in terms of my hopes for Loeb. Ditching the book after 6 issues, after we were forced fed some line that Marvel and Loeb had some profound vision for this Nova laid out...all seems pretty hollow right now.

And let's be frank, this is an incredibly decompressed book, when most marvel books are not doing this stuff on this level of decompression any more. SO it's more like Loeb is ditching after 3 issues to me. As such i dont really see how the rest of Loeb's run on this book is going to blow anyones doors enough to galvanize this character or form a definitive story at Marvel for Loeb.

I feel so bad for DnA..I mean there Nova and cosmic stuff was definitive, committed, and passionate ...they gave there heart and soul to building a foundation, now we get Loeb ditching after 6 freakin issues.

I really was rooting for him too, but it's been a "long" time since the "long halloween" my friend.

Oh..but Loeb has some big hollywood stuff to consult on and this is important..doesnt it bother everybody when guys like Starlin are grinding on Stormwatch? (which i will be picking up)

 

[Mr. Dent]

^ Loeb is coming back after Wells' 5 issue stint.

 

[THANOSRULES]

^ Loeb is coming back after Wells' 5 issue stint.

It's not exactly clear and still has not worked before in many comics, it shows me a lack of seriousness to the character...I'd be surprised if it even happens.

 

[Mr. Dent]

What do you mean by clear? The article specifically said Loeb is coming back to the book to tell another big story next year.

 

[THANOSRULES]

Yes, and Marvel would never delay, shift or change any plans, and they would always fill us in and be honest. Even if Loeb comes back for an arc, he's not the "writer" of the book doing that.

 

[JewishHobbit]

At most, I could see Wells do an arc or two, then Loeb returns for his story, then maybe another fill in writer, maybe Wells again, and then Marvel will attempt a new writer with a solid direction... and the book is canceled after that.

That's how I envision this book going.