The Nightwing OYL Discussion Thread

[Darthphere]

i really didn't make it a big deal, i just stated my opinion that it was lame and you guys asked more about it and i gave an opinion.

sorry, for hurting your feelings. it just seems to me that you guys are only posting certain opinions to ruffle feathers. if that's not the intent, then i apologize.

I do that sometimes but 90% of the time im 4 realz!!11!!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

i really didn't make it a big deal, i just stated my opinion that it was lame and you guys asked more about it and i gave an opinion.

sorry, for hurting your feelings. it just seems to me that you guys are only posting certain opinions to ruffle feathers. if that's not the intent, then i apologize.

Souless made a big deal about it. I was responding to him more than you initially, and then you were the one who answered when I asked more about it, but I was just making general comments, not really directed at you specifically.

 

[sinewave]

I do that sometimes but 90% of the time im 4 realz!!11!!

well then, my deepest and most heartfelt apologies, good sir.

 

[sinewave]

Souless made a big deal about it. I was responding to him more than you initially, and then you were the one who answered when I asked more about it, so naturally I ended up responding to you.

no prob.

 

[Green Lantern]

Double ass is Ass Ass In

 

[SouLeSS]

I think it's safe to say that I own.

 

[Darthphere]

Thats very dangerous, and wrong.

 

[Kitsune]

who's double ass?

Ass Ass In...

 

[SpideyInATree]

Read the latest issue today. This is definitely a HUGE improvement from the crap that was being spewed before. We've got a new villain, I guess that's what it looks like, in the mix.

And who said that Wolfman's two issues were still no better than the One Year Later issues? I need to find that person. Hunt them down. And slap them upside the head with a copy of the bible, because it's usually heavy, to knock some sense into them.

 

[SouLeSS]

I did. Theres still a lot wrong with it, even moreso than what was wrong in the previous OYL arcs.

 

[Green Lantern]

No, the main thing that was wrong with the previous arc was the completely s**tty and out of character characterization of Dick Grayson. Thats the one thing that noone can deny Marv Wolfman has nailed. NOONE. Not Chuck Dixon, not Devin Grayson, NOONE gets Dick's character better than Marv.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

I did. Theres still a lot wrong with it, even moreso than what was wrong in the previous OYL arcs.

umm no. just no!!!

 

[SouLeSS]

No, the main thing that was wrong with the previous arc was the completely s**tty and out of character characterization of Dick Grayson. Thats the one thing that noone can deny Marv Wolfman has nailed. NOONE. Not Chuck Dixon, not Devin Grayson, NOONE gets Dick's character better than Marv.

How is he acting ANY different than what he previously has? Please, point it out for me.

 

[Darthphere]

How is he acting ANY different than what he previously has? Please, point it out for me.

Hes not calling his best friend injun boy.

 

[SouLeSS]

You mean he's not being buddies with his best friend?

 

[SpideyInATree]

I can just tell a huge difference in the storytelling. Wolfman is doing something that should have basically been done straight out of One Year Later, and not making Jason Todd octopus monsters and having Dick Grayson, Male Model XTREME!

 

[Green Lantern]

How is he acting ANY different than what he previously has? Please, point it out for me.

If you can't tell, then you don't know the character enough to know why Wolfman is the best at writing him. Just from the first page, Wolfman shows us what Nightwing is about. Dick is not a brooding hero, he is NOT Batman lite, and HASN'T been since he was a TEEN. Yes, he's still fighting crime, but not because hes on a never ending quest for vengeance like Bruce, but because its the biggest thrill ride in the world. He does it because he has fun doing it. And yes, he always jokes with Roy, but the dialogue between the two in Jones's issue was appalling. Master Bruce and I have much better back and forth's as the two characters in the RPG. Dick would NEVER be so blatantly and flat out racist.

 

[Green Lantern]

Okay, I'm going to repost the world's BIGGEST Nightwing fan's review of the book, and if you doubt me, then you don't know Snipe.

Major spoilers below. After two reads, I'm very pleased. Not much at all to gripe about. Here's my page-by-page synopsis and thoughts:

I'm very pleased. Not jumping-up-and-down-happy, but pleased. As Mr.
Wolfman has stated, he was hired to write a four issue fill-in. He was
working on that when he was told the book was his for at least 12
issues.

Heavy spoilers below as I detail my likes (many) and dislikes (not
many) with both the script and art:

Spoiler

Page 1: Dick is smiling. Awesome. Nightwing isn't as grim and dark as
Batman. He can smile. He also admits that he admires, honors, and loves
Bruce (as a father, you pervs). Another plus. I also like his hair
length - enough so it moves around, but not draping all over the place.
Jurgens does a great job with the costume. It's obvious that he did his
homework and isn't trying to re-invent the wheel. One addition I do
like is the wingding (batarang) attached to the outside of his right
(and presumably left) glove. Also, the presence of his escirma sticks
attached to the back of his costume is great. Most artists fail to
remember that he doesn't just pull them out of his ass.

Page 2 - 3: Nightwing, having jumped from a gargoyle on the previous
page, freefalls and grabs onto our new villain (who appears to not be
villainous), the Raptor, who is flying around (rockets in his shoes) in
an armored suit. Nightwing jokes with him. Very big plus. He internally
mentions that he's been tracking said Raptor for a week, giving us some
time to believe that he's gotten himself together since the Bruce Jones
story. Jurgens' backgrounds are great here (and throughout).

Page 4: Dick uses a grappled to tie the Raptor to a high-rise
construction site. After letting go, he realizes that was his only
rope. I like this, as it shows how quick he is to think - he doesn't
mind using his only escape early in the game, because he can improvise
something as he goes. The last panel shows what is most certainly the
Monitor assigned to our hero. He calls out to "Richard Grayson."

Page 5: The Monitor tells Dick he was supposed to die in the Crisis.
Here, it appears Mr. Wolfman is taking real life situations and placing
them in the context of the book. It's a well known fact that Dan Didio
wanted to kill Nightwing off in the Crisis. Nice touch.
Dick is able to use one of his sticks and land safely, though the beam
he first used smacked him around a bit as it wasn't completely fastened
down. He talks back to the Monitor (unseen on this page) and obviously
doesn't know who he's speaking to.

Page 6: Nightwing, landing badly on his left shoulder, looks up to find
the Raptor has escaped. He sees a window broken and goes inside
(throughout the book so far, we're also seeing a police helicopter
watching the battle / chase).

Page 7: Nightwing kicks open a door to find the Raptor standing over a
man at a computer terminal who's been burnt to a crisp. The smell
reminds him of the blast he took from Alexander Luthor in the Crisis.
He evades the Raptor's attacks while he claims to be innocent. The
Raptor escapes.
Here, I'm getting flashbacks to Bruce Jones - Dick not only took a good
kick to the face, but also had the bad guy escape. I'm not saying he
should be perfect, but a new guy on the scene - a no-name - should be
getting away so cleanly at this point. The only thing that makes it ok
is that he took quite a fall and dislocated his shoulder when he
crashed after attempting to tie the Raptor to the building.

Page 8: Dick walking back into his building in plain clothes (Joe
Nameth Jets jersey). Probably the next day. He's aching pretty bad from
the fight. No sooner did he walk into his apartment building than two
hot tennis playing chicks (one appears to be Hispanic, the other Asian)
hit on him. They notice he's favoring his injuries.

Page 9 - 10: One of the girls, Ryan Diaz (the other's name is simply
"Zen") gives his back a good popping and Dick immediately feels some
relief. She's a masseuse. As they walk off, Dick gives them his name.
Ryan tells him he should visit her at work for a more thorough job.
Dick goes home and takes a shower.

Page 11: Our boy hits the internet looking for a job while the Raptor
does some searching. By the way he talks to himself, either he isn't
the killer or he's suffering from multiple personality disorder.
Talking to one's self is a sign of this, though
A man in a suit hails a cab in the rain.

Page 12: The man cusses out his driver due to the traffic, and he turns
out to be cussing Dick, who's taken a job driving a taxi. It's also his
last day, as the passenger owns the cab company.
This appears to be a throw-away page, but it shows that he's having
trouble getting a job that "fits" him.

Page 13: More job hunting and we have Ryan and Zen chumming up to Dick.
Ryan takes him for a walk. Dick realizes how much the city has changed
since he last lived there (with the Titans).

Page 14: Ryan, taking Dick to the place where she works (Bone's Spa)
tells him she's in grad school and working nights. She takes him into a
room and tells him to strip down.

Page 15: Ryan begins to give the massage, and she makes a Fight Club
joke about all the scarring on his back. She tells him about her
ex-boyfriend and invites him to a party she is having that night. Dick
accepts the invitation. While relaxing, Dick picks up on a clue he'd
overlooked and cuts the massage short.

Page 16: Nightwing is in the office where he'd found the Raptor and the
burnt man. He finds an employee list and ties to Lexcorp. He heads out
to check on some of the other people on the list and we get to see the
wingding from the glove in action: it shoots out and is connected to a
jumpline.

Page 17: The Raptor is threatening a man who knows who he is under the
armor. Nightwing crashes through a window at the Raptor.

Page 18-19: They fight. Though the Raptor still claims not to be a
killer, he sure appears to be trying to kill Nightwing. The fight
spills into the street outside, where NW lands on a car, but dodges the
flame-throwers.

Page 20: The Raptor escapes, and the police show up. They seem
concerned about our hero and go with him back into the home. The man
the Raptor had been bullying was dead - burnt to a crisp.
Ok, either we're forgetting the Bruce Jones arc ever existed or we're
not. Wolfman has been very good so far about not fully ignoring it, but
the last we saw there, Nightwing was public enemy number one - wanted
by every cop in the city. Here, they know who he is and offer to help
him - they're working with a man who was very recently their prime
target.
Perhaps Andreyko's upcoming annual will take place between Jones and
Wolfman to explain this.

Page 21: The Raptor is at home. He takes off his mask to reveal that he
is horribly disfigured. He's been going after the scientists looking
for a cure.
Dick gets home and gets out of costume. He hears the party downstairs.

Page 22: Mr. Grayson takes another shower and lays down hoping to get a
quick nap before heading off to the party. Four hours later, he's still
asleep when Ryan and Zen knock on his door.
The Monitor creeps into his room: "Dick Grayson... you were supposed to
die in the Crisis, but somehow you survived. That will have to be
corrected."
to be continued...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Something just occurred to me: given that Wolfman made his name redefining the Teen Titans in the '80s, it'd be pretty cool if he devoted a short arc to Dick's attempting to figure out what happened to Wally. It's kind of odd that Dick hasn't done anything about the fact that his best and closest friend since childhood has disappeared without a trace to no-one-knows-where. All we've heard mentioned about him, Linda, and the kids is that they're "somewhere else." It's pissing me off now that we're, what, 5 or 6 months past the OYL jump?

 

[Darthphere]

Didio wont allow the name Wally to appear in any book.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It's anathema now. I bet people who speak of Wally within a ten-mile radius of the DC offices get tasered.

 

[Darthphere]

He just wants us to forget he ever existed.

 

[SpideyInATree]

It's anathema now. I bet people who speak of Wally within a ten-mile radius of the DC offices get tasered.

In the testicles.

 

[sinewave]

Something just occurred to me: given that Wolfman made his name redefining the Teen Titans in the '80s, it'd be pretty cool if he devoted a short arc to Dick's attempting to figure out what happened to Wally. It's kind of odd that Dick hasn't done anything about the fact that his best and closest friend since childhood has disappeared without a trace to no-one-knows-where. All we've heard mentioned about him, Linda, and the kids is that they're "somewhere else." It's pissing me off now that we're, what, 5 or 6 months past the OYL jump?

i agree, but who has time for friends when you're octo-jackass-fighting male model?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, you're right. Dick was pretty busy having a tepid conflict with Dick Clone #1 and ****ing everything with a hole between its legs. But now he's remembered that he's not a *****ebag, so he should probably remember that he has friends, right?

He just wants us to forget he ever existed.

Because he already has.