The Official '52' Thread

[Colossal Spoons]

other than the fact that she was an un-needed character that was best left in the silver age not updated, given batman beyonds costume and lesbianized for no apparent reason other than to link her to montoya, nothing is wrong with her...

Heh, this was my first exposure to ANY Batwoman, and I like lesbians and BB's costume.

 

[sethcohen]

Heh, this was my first exposure to ANY Batwoman, and I like lesbians and BB's costume.

i like his costume too, on him... she was redundant at best... lets face it, at the end of the day all she ended up being was a plot device to push montoya to be the question... i think she looks so stupid in the costume... was there an actual reason to kill of vic sage? blah...

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I didn't care about Charlie as The Question but I flat out don't like Montoya.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

i like his costume too, on him... she was redundant at best... lets face it, at the end of the day all she ended up being was a plot device to push montoya to be the question... i think she looks so stupid in the costume... was there an actual reason to kill of vic sage? blah...

I don't understand killing off the Question, either. He'd just gained a load of interest from his prominent guest spots on JLU and a critically acclaimed mini-series, so of course the logical follow-up to that is... killing and replacing him? Does that make sense in some strange way I'm not aware of?

 

[sethcohen]

I didn't care about Charlie as The Question but I flat out don't like Montoya.

word

 

[Brian Braddock]

i like his costume too, on him... she was redundant at best... lets face it, at the end of the day all she ended up being was a plot device to push montoya to be the question... i think she looks so stupid in the costume... was there an actual reason to kill of vic sage? blah...

If Batwoman buys it, I've a feeling Renee will wear the costume in honour of her dead 'friend', leaving Vic to somehow come back from the dead in true comicbook fashion and be the Question again.

Maybe.

Or maybe not.

 

[sethcohen]

what the hell just happened? im lost and now my head hurts...

 

[BrianWilly]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=107765

5.2 (or so) ABOUT 52 #48 WITH MICHAEL SIGLAIN
And the hunt for Kate Kane is on.

Oh, and off.

This week’s issue of 52 from DC saw Nightwing and Renee/Question searching for and finding Kate Kane, the most inexperienced Bat-Family member, who’d gotten herself kidnapped by Intergang, and then, apparently killed or nearly killed by Intergang as well. Hey – dressing up as a bat and fighting crime in Gotham – it can get ya killed.

And while all of this is going down, Intergang is firing up some very nasty looking fire-drill things that seem to have an Apokaliptian bent to them, and look to be hellbent on making Gotham a gigantic, burning crater.

What does it all mean? It’s time to put the questions to 52 Editor Michael Siglain.

Newsarama: First off Mike, and probably the biggest, overarching question for fans who've followed the Bat-Family, One Year Later and 52 throughout all of this is: why isn't Cassandra Cain even shown to be on the list of suspects for the whole "twice-named daughter of Cain" thing? It would seem that her name alone would merit a scene of her being...seen, investigated, sent away for protection, etc...

Michael Siglain: Excellent point, and one that the writers did address. We do allude to Batgirl in this issue (on page 5), but we just didn't have room in the issue to show her. It was more important to focus on Montoya, Kate, Mannheim, and the rest, instead of taking time to explain Batgirl. Incidentally, for those of you who are interested, Batgirl does make an appearance in the World War III books.

But don't just take my word for it, let¹s check in with extra-special guest star Greg Rucka, who is kind enough to join us once again. Mr. Rucka, you have the floor.

Greg Rucka: Thanks, Mike. Batgirl was definitely on the list of suspects. Nightwing tells Montoya that he and Batwoman investigated that possibility. "...thought it might refer to another person named Cain, but according to Batwoman, she'd be too young." Just because a scene showing Batwoman and Nightwing investigating the possibility wasn't shown doesn't mean it didn't happen.

It's important to remember that 52 followed only a very small, very specific group of characters during the course of the year – in essence, the characters that 52 was about. Page space was devoted to the major characters of the story -- people like Ralph, Booster, Will, etc; secondary characters to the story consequently suffered for lack of close attention.

Obviously, Batwoman and Nightwing have been pursuing Intergang for several months, now; just because we didn't see their investigations didn't mean they weren't actually investigating.

MS: Thanks, Greg. Feel free to stick around. We’re just getting started...

NRAMA: Judging from the issue, Intergang had Batwoman for four days before they got around to sacrificing her? They'd already missed the November 1st date and had been sacrificing people willy-nilly since, so why wait? Is this a case of a Dr. Evil-esque, "I'll wait to kill them until the last possible moment when their rescuers may arrive?"

MS: Not really. After all, Mannheim still stabs Kate in the heart. It's not like the Question prevented that. Mannheim is still under the belief that the prophecy will come true once the twice-named daughter of Cain has been murdered. He's looking at the bigger evil picture...though he does think that Kate should've been killed sooner. It's Whisper who calms him down and tells him that they weren't fully prepared for the sacrifice until this very night.

Greg? Care to speak to this?

GR: Sure. The original sacrifice date wasn't November 1st, for the record. And as to the question -- again, there's the presumption that nothing happened during those four days, and that's inaccurate; the only people who actually know what Batwoman went through during the days leading to the sacrifice are Batwoman, Whisper, and Mannheim.

NRAMA: Was this a case of dissension among the Intergang ranks, that is, Whisper and Abbot had Kathy, but didn't let Mannhiem know? After all, the three of them don’t seem to be as chummy as they once were…

MS: I’m going to let our extra-special guest star answer this one. Greg?

GR: No. It was a case of preparing the sacrifice and the circumstances surrounding it; the original date had been missed, requiring new rituals and new preparations to be made.

MS: And if I may elaborate even further, Abbot has seen too many prophecies come and go, and unlike Mannheim, he believes the Book to be flawed. Mannheim obviously disagrees, and Whisper is caught somewhere in between. She believes in the Book, and in Mannheim, but Abbot is also the closest thing she has to a friend.

NRAMA: The machine that the vulture guy turned on. It's just an issue of
turning them off?

MS: It's a big, red "DO NOT TOUCH" button with, ironically enough, little hearts and daises surrounding around it. Yes, even the button is pure evil.

But perhaps we should have the writer answer this one. Mr. Rucka?

GR: Each device had to be disarmed; sounds to me like that required more than just throwing a single switch. Like most destructive devices, easy to start up -- much harder to shut down.

NRAMA: How many of them are there throughout Gotham? And, getting down to the nitty gritty, what would Kate's sacrifice do to their power?

MS: There are more than a few of these weird, Apokoliptian machines strategically placed throughout Gotham. Once you combine the location with how the device is activated, and then add in the fulfillment of the prophecy, you get Hell on Earth with Apokoliptian fire pits raging from the Earth's core and bursting up through the ground. Creepy. But don’t take my word for it. Greg?

GR: There are seven devices. Kate's heart would've, in theory, opened an eighth at the center, thus filling the described circle and igniting the heart of Gotham.

NRAMA: Okay – moving over to Renee with the mask on. With the mask, without the mask - what's the difference for her? What edge doesn't she have with that she does with the mask on?

MS: She has no eyes! NO EYES!!!

NRAMA: Yeah, but that applies to a whole bunch of mask-wearers…

MS: Okay, fine. But it's true. Do you see any eyes on her face? I'd say that's quite different. In any event, since you do bring up a good Question (and she is, isn't she?) it can all be boiled down to a phrase said by the original Question, which Montoya repeats: "Some questions can only be answered by wearing a mask." The disguise allows her to be anonymous and intimidating and impartial. It gives her a sense of freedom and it's that freedom that allows her to get the job done and not only ask the hard questions, but find the actual answers. Plus, you know, she has no eyes.

NRAMA: You need to let that go…

MS: No eyes!

NRAMA: So - tell us, Dr. Prophesy – there was a lot going on, and Gotham didn’t appear to be a fire-pit of hell. Was the sacrifice successful?

MS: Looks like it's a case of "all's well that ends well" doesn't it...well, except for that whole "Kate getting stabbed in the heart business" huh? If she's dead, then the prophesy will come true. What do you think?

NRAMA: Gotham’s still a pit, but not a fiery hell pit of Apokalips?

MS: Um, that was a rhetorical question. I'm not looking for an actual answer here.

NRAMA: Alright, alright, and just to drive that point home – by the end of the issue, had Nightwing and Abbot shut down the giant burny-things? None can be seen in the horizon...

MS: That's a pretty safe assumption. Looks like they did it.

NRAMA: As we saw in James Robinson's arc that ran through Batman and Detective, Bruce made plans with Harvey Dent to watch Gotham while he was gallivanting around. He kind of sucked at it, didn't he, if things got this bad on his watch, and he didn't call in help, huh?

MS: Intergang and Apokoliptian fire pits proved to be too much for Harvey Dent to handle. After all, he's not Batman. As we¹ve seen, Harvey was more suited to the common, or even not-so-common criminals. He certainly wasn't prepared for something as big and evil as this. And, as we saw in the “Face the Face” arc, he just wasn't cut out to be Gotham's protector.

And for those of you who can't get enough of big, bad Harv, check out the World War III
books. He shows up in there, too. In fact, he's in the same issue as Batgirl...

NRAMA: Okay – the issue’s wrap-up. Black Adam on block...he's been missing for a week, right? What've they been doing to him?

MS: Sivanna been torturing and torturing and torturing Black Adam. He's always wanted a Marvel to experiment on, and while Black Adam wouldn't have been his first--or second or third--choice, he's still a Marvel and Sivanna is going to town! Things certainly wouldn't turn out well for the good doctor if, hypothetically speaking of course, Black Adam were to escape...

NRAMA: Go point. Okay – we’re run down the full issue, so it’s over to you for the teases....

MS: First and foremost, most if not all of you caught last week's typo, but all the same, I thought it was worth mentioning this week: Ralph Dibny dies in week 42, and not, obviously, week 48. As for Ralph's fate, he's dead. And by dead, I mean dead. Dead, dead, deadski.

Now about those teases...let's take a look at one of my favorite masterpieces by J.G. Jones and Alex Sinclair. Not only is it beautiful, but it's very Bondian, and that's always a good thing. Enjoy the cover to week 49...

But I can't just show you the cover--not when we're this close to being done, so feast your eyes on these phenomenal pages:

Ah, yes. Things aren't looking too good, though they frequently don't around these parts. In the remaining weeks, we'll come face-to-face with a double agent, we'll change the fate of one of our main players, we'll return to space, we'll attend a memorial service, and we'll go back to the beginning. Plus, someone will say this soon-to-be-famous catchphrase: "This isn't about raising the dead. It's more...inspirational."

Happy Holidays, gang. See you next week!

 

[Kebab gud]

something tells me Atomsmasher is going to get his head smashed just for that one line

 

[Darthphere]

I don't understand killing off the Question, either. He'd just gained a load of interest from his prominent guest spots on JLU and a critically acclaimed mini-series, so of course the logical follow-up to that is... killing and replacing him? Does that make sense in some strange way I'm not aware of?

Nobody knows, if his death stands, its easily one of the stupidest business decisions DC has pulled off in years.

 

[batnkevlar]

No, no way Black Adam will turn on Atom Smasher unless he does something REALLY dumbass... Atom Smasher was on Black Adam's team when they invaded those countries, and was on the Justice Society with him... they're friends, right?

 

[Kebab gud]

Atomsmasher helped Black Adam take back ONE! countrie not several

 

[BrianWilly]

Well, until Al turned into a ****** and led the Suicide Squad attack that ended with Osiris splitting a guy in half.

Other than that! Yup, they're friends.

 

[Horseman Gambit]

Yea bye bye Atom Smasher, to bad I liked him but my guess is the next page is a splash, if you know what I mean

 

[Dark Spidey]

So... what's the deal with "the prophecy"? Rucka says the original date for the sacrafice wasn't November 1st. So when was it supposed to be then?

 

[Dark Spidey]

Okay. I just did some checking and the original date for the sacrafice was supposed to be November 19th.

Still don't see how they will explain how it was mis-interpreted from last week.

 

[The Question]

Nobody knows, if his death stands, its easily one of the stupidest business decisions DC has pulled off in years.

It's also in the top twenty of stupid creative descisions, as they was absolutely no good reason within the story itself for Montoya to get a costume or for Vic to die. Really, the role Nightwing was filling in the last few issues of that arc could have had Vic there instead.


However, I'm starting to think that Charlie faked his death. The bit in Rip Hunter's Lab, "The Question Lies," makes me think that in order to shake Monotya out of apathy and self loathing, Charlie made her think that she lost another partner. It's a dickish move, I know, but Q's pulled some fairly dickish moves in the past.

 

[Varient]

Yeah this issue was so bad I'm not even gonna post a link to the issue this week. I'm gonna get supergirl instead

oh,... that was harsh.

 

[Varient]

If Batwoman buys it, I've a feeling Renee will wear the costume in honour of her dead 'friend', leaving Vic to somehow come back from the dead in true comicbook fashion and be the Question again.

Maybe.

Or maybe not.

Now that,.. I would accept.

Montoya becomes BatWoman,.... The Question comes back.


Heck,... I WOULD LOVE THAT!!!!!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Uh... "if" Batwoman dies? I thought the knife in her heart was a pretty clear indicator that she's pretty much dead already.

 

[Brian Braddock]

I havent got the latest issue, Corp - at the time of posting 'if' Batwoman dies, I was only going on what someone had posted previous about Batwoman possibly buying the farm.

Now I know for sure.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, sorry about spoiling it for you.

 

[Dark Spidey]

I really hope Vic lives, too.

Because remember Week #32, when that guy from The Great Ten was there in Nanda Parbat?

Accomplished Perfect Physician. Didn't he say he could cure cancer? And what was he doing there anyway?

Please let this mean Vic is coming back!!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That would be pretty sweet. I totally didn't remember the Accomplished Perfect Physician being there. We never actually see Vic die, either. We see Montoya dragging him through the snow to Nanda Parbat and then we see her pass out, but when she comes to in Nanda Parbat, Vic is nowhere to be seen. Perhaps he was cured but stayed hidden so all the work he did with Montoya wouldn't be in vain.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Seeing that I haven't been here in over a week I'm sure this has been discussed to death but I'm reviving it so that it can be killed again....

I want DC to make me into a fictional character and inject me into the pages of 52 so that I can KILL Montoya and end this borefest that we're currently being drug through. This is utterly ridiculous that she's the Question. I don't even know ANYTHING about the original guy and it pisses me off. It's a horrid transition and none of it makes any sense. So, yeah...blah.

And what the HELL was up with Nightwing taking the backseat? Yeah, I understand that her lesbian lover was about to get stabbed but wouldn't have Nightwing been a little more, I don't know, EXPERIENCED at this kind of thing?

Anyway...I'm just really disappointed in the lack of excitement in the closing weeks of 52. It started off great and really got my engine running but it looks like we're about to run out of gas. Looks like 52 is going to be filed under Millar's Marvel Knights Spider-Man run. Great foreplay but just COULDN'T stay long enough for the climax!