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The Official Avengers Thread (Heroic Age Bendis/JRJR)

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Stick with "I'm a child rapist" less provocative then this.

Why is everyone so blooming against Bendis?!!! What has he done in America to o make everyone hate him? Is it because he doesn't write the old-fashioned way? Ugh my young mind can't take this!:huh:
 
Why is everyone so blooming against Bendis?!!! What has he done in America to o make everyone hate him? Is it because he doesn't write the old-fashioned way? Ugh my young mind can't take this!:huh:

Hey, hey, hey, watching the blooming language.

He writes bad stories incredibly decompressed. Each of his characters sound the same. Every ending to every one of his events have the same ending (spoiler alert the crazy hero/villain defeats the bad guy without the actual heroes doing anything except take out cannon fodder). Do I want to read twenty issues which basically feature something happening as told by talking heads in confessional style ala real world 1996? No, that just makes horrible comics.

That said he has written some good things. I'm quite a fan of his USM run. He writes a good voice for teenagers.

I'll tell you what, go check out anniliation. Compare that event to any event by millar, bendis or pak then you'll see the difference between a great event and compelling characters and something bendis does.

To put it in an easier term, he's the stephen king of comics. Great idea man, can write some good starts but the endings inevitably fall apart (the stand was a great book until you got to the end and just went wtf, dude!) as it seems like they just needed to be fixed before he could move on to his next project. Anyone that produces that volume of work is just stuck in ADD mode. This isn't a new style, it seems you think he's writing something edgy, he isn't. There is edge to what he's done but he's mimicking that from people like ellis who quite frankly make bendis look like an adorable kitten writing my little pony fanfiction (compare ellis' T-Bolts to Bendis' Dark Avengers for a good example of this).
 
Hey, hey, hey, watching the blooming language.

He writes bad stories incredibly decompressed. Each of his characters sound the same. Every ending to every one of his events have the same ending (spoiler alert the crazy hero/villain defeats the bad guy without the actual heroes doing anything except take out cannon fodder). Do I want to read twenty issues which basically feature something happening as told by talking heads in confessional style ala real world 1996? No, that just makes horrible comics.

That said he has written some good things. I'm quite a fan of his USM run. He writes a good voice for teenagers.

I'll tell you what, go check out anniliation. Compare that event to any event by millar, bendis or pak then you'll see the difference between a great event and compelling characters and something bendis does.

To put it in an easier term, he's the stephen king of comics. Great idea man, can write some good starts but the endings inevitably fall apart (the stand was a great book until you got to the end and just went wtf, dude!) as it seems like they just needed to be fixed before he could move on to his next project. Anyone that produces that volume of work is just stuck in ADD mode. This isn't a new style, it seems you think he's writing something edgy, he isn't. There is edge to what he's done but he's mimicking that from people like ellis who quite frankly make bendis look like an adorable kitten writing my little pony fanfiction (compare ellis' T-Bolts to Bendis' Dark Avengers for a good example of this).

Ugh, well I like him, however I do see your point. The problem is I can only really read what's in Britains CE's. We're on the last part of Seige and I just think he's brilliant! Though I can see how he's been rulling the Avenger's series for quite some time now, and you must get bored. Another thing is that I don't really want complex stories, which twist and turn everything and turn Marvel too dark. I enjoy a good Marvel story! Bendis does mean quite a bit to me as well, as it was him who really got me into the Avengers with Disembled, which was his best, pure genius. Up until then, I had been reading X-Men, the comic my Dad had loved since his childhood (60's.) Suddenly, Chris Claremont comes along, with stories that just made me want to fall asleep. A bit of a dissopointment, as the guy wrote amazingly in his prime. Reading Bendis was like going from reading Charles Dickens, to David Beneof.
 
Dissembled was an abomination. :o

Your problem is essentially that you need to read more stuff.
 
Yeah, I doubt there'll be any sort of meeting of the minds here if you think Disassembled was "pure genius," SNG. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, of course... but you're not gonna find many who agree with that particular one around here.
 
I mean, I can see how, if you NEVER read anything involving these characters before Bendis showed up, that you could like it? But I, and pretty much everybody else around here, had the bad luck to have read Avengers before he came on. So, you know, we found out a very important flaw in Bendis (And really most writers who come in from the Indie crowd really) he changes the characters to fit the story. Classic example that was pointed out in another thread. New Avengers. When they were putting the new team together? Iron Man said we should get Wolverine on the team because he's a killer, AND CAP F**KING WENT ALONG WITH IT! Now, if you know anything about Cap, (And I'm talking 616 Cap not no Ultimate, alternate universe, mind controlled, etc, Cap) You'd know that Cap woulda b***h slapped Tony for even suggesting such a thing. Changing characters personalities to fit his stories.

It should be the other way around.
 
I don't think Cap would've outright refused to put Logan on the team. They did fight together in WWII - so Steve knows what the positive and negatives are to having him on the team. I can see Steve letting Logan in with a lot of arm pulling from Tony.

Don't get me wrong, I see what you mean but I also semi-agree with the flip-side of the argument.
 
Yeah, Cap left the Avengers once over Iron Man and some of the other members' decision to kill the Kree Supreme Intelligence. And that was a sentient computerized blob who'd just murdered a large part of the Kree population. Wolverine's over here trying to kill crazy folks and children in Avengers: The Children's Crusade right now.
 
If he had to convince him, I woulda been okay with it.

But it was just,

Stark: Logan?

Cap: Cool.

Not even a conversation about why the f**k they would even NEED a killer on the team. Maybe even Cap bringing up that time Iron Man and that group of Avengers murdered the Supreme Intelligence and how that s**t blew up in their faces. That woulda shown that he knew the characters. The fact that Cap had no reaction at all about that statement shows that he either doesn't know Cap, or didn't give a s**t at all.

And don't even get me started on how he pretty much Destroyed the Sentry. :o
 
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I'm just going to pretend that the first 4 issues of Children's Crusade were written 5 years ago.

That was a memorable issue in all of Avengers history, probably my favorite. Tony was playing the Logan Children's Crusade role to a T. Black Knight totally got screwed and Tony was nowhere to be found. The end result was the same as always. The Avengers eventually crumbled and Cap came back to straighten them out.
 
If he had to convince him, I woulda been okay with it.

But it was just,

Stark: Logan?

Cap: Cool.

Not even a conversation about why the f**k they would we even NEED a killer on the team. Maybe even Cap bringing up that time Iron Man and that group of Avengers murdered the Supreme Intelligence and how that s**t blew up in their faces. That woulda shown that he knew the characters. The fact that Cap had no reaction at all about that statement shows that he either doesn't know Cap, or didn't give a s**t at all.

And don't even get me started on how he pretty much Destroyed the Sentry. :o
Well, the idea that the team "needs" a killer is really the crux of the issue. It's true, sometimes hard decisions have to be made and killing has to be on the table when you're dealing with the potentially reality-ending threats the Avengers deal with. There's no question that the whole omniverse would be better off without the likes of Korvac or Thanos running around. But Cap himself has never been afraid to make those decisions as a last resort, nor have several other longtime Avengers mainstays. The idea that they needed to farm the issue of lethal force out to Wolverine because that's just what he does is absurd to begin with. The Avengers already had the right idea about killing: it's there as an option if they absolutely need it, but it's not something that should be first on anyone's list. Logan just doesn't fit because killing is pretty much the only thing on his list at this point.
 
Ugh, well I like him, however I do see your point. The problem is I can only really read what's in Britains CE's. We're on the last part of Seige and I just think he's brilliant! Though I can see how he's been rulling the Avenger's series for quite some time now, and you must get bored. Another thing is that I don't really want complex stories, which twist and turn everything and turn Marvel too dark. I enjoy a good Marvel story! Bendis does mean quite a bit to me as well, as it was him who really got me into the Avengers with Disembled, which was his best, pure genius. Up until then, I had been reading X-Men, the comic my Dad had loved since his childhood (60's.) Suddenly, Chris Claremont comes along, with stories that just made me want to fall asleep. A bit of a dissopointment, as the guy wrote amazingly in his prime. Reading Bendis was like going from reading Charles Dickens, to David Beneof.

Don't you ever blooming knock dickens in my presence.

But I think the main problem here and actually you're making the case against bendis is you said you don't like complex stories. If so then sadly most advanced storytelling of any medium (comics, books, movies, music) is lost on you. I wish this wasn't so and I hope that changes for you because complexity (when it actually has a purpose and isn't complex just to show how clever the writer is) is the thing that really hooks any story and makes taking the journey again worthwhile.

The other thing you said you don't like is dark, but bendis and especially millar are in fact dark. Most of their "original" ideas are to take something established and try and make it darker. Both of these guys are known for slaughtering scores of established characters just to give a story some edge. Examples of this:

Bendis: Alias, the hood's rise to power by beating up women, the dark avengers, carnage being ripped apart by the sentry, turning purple man into a mass murdering sex slave rapist, his major arc in daredevil featuring mysterio doing some very nasty stuff.

Millar: Ultimates volume one featuring one of the most graphic wife beating scenes in the history of comics, rapist rampaging hulk also in ultimates, old man wolverine also featuring rapist rampaging hulk but now with cannibal action.

^this can go on and on but those are some choice examples.

I never really liked most of claremont's work either.

I'm sorry you don't get too many comics and that you live in britain. If I could recommend something maybe you should consider ordering a few trades rather than bother with a comic store. I guessing you're new to comics and that's great, as such, and please don't take me as being all high and mighty, but your tastes are going to change as you get more into them and some of the things you loved early on aren't going to be too impressive once you get a taste of other things. It's true for all mediums, the things that might hook you at first do have a special place in your heart for that reason but eventually you explore around and discover some of the best that medium has to offer.

Anubis is exactly right, it's just hard to read a story that throws all characterization out the window to work, a good writer does it the other way around.
 
If he had to convince him, I woulda been okay with it.

But it was just,

Stark: Logan?

Cap: Cool.

Not even a conversation about why the f**k they would we even NEED a killer on the team. Maybe even Cap bringing up that time Iron Man and that group of Avengers murdered the Supreme Intelligence and how that s**t blew up in their faces. That woulda shown that he knew the characters. The fact that Cap had no reaction at all about that statement shows that he either doesn't know Cap, or didn't give a s**t at all.

And don't even get me started on how he pretty much Destroyed the Sentry. :o

What actually made me laugh is that tony basically explained the need for logan by saying he was the "captain america" element for this new version of the team.
 
I'm just going to pretend that the first 4 issues of Children's Crusade were written 5 years ago.

That was a memorable issue in all of Avengers history, probably my favorite. Tony was playing the Logan Children's Crusade role to a T. Black Knight totally got screwed and Tony was nowhere to be found. The end result was the same as always. The Avengers eventually crumbled and Cap came back to straighten them out.
You'd think they'd learn that the team pretty much revolves around Cap at this point. If you're doing something that makes Cap object, you're probably doing something wrong.
 
I mean, I'm not saying Bendis isn't a good writer. His Creator Owned stuff is amazing. Powers, Torso, I hear great things about that Scarlett book. But his Avengers is lacking. Because of his tendency to write characters like he just made them up himself.

Now, I will be the first to say that I really love what he did with Luke Cage. And it's good to see that he is now an A-Lister. (At least IN the MU.) But other than a few bright spots, his stuff is just lacking. He can't really do BIG stories. Not well anyway. Siege was probably the best of his Avengers Events and even that ended rather on the Meh side. If he just did New Avengers which is really more the street level Avengers lets be honest, I think he'd excel.

Oh and I just remembered what he did to Kang. OH MY F**KING GOD!

Seriously, read Bendis' Kang, then read Kang in Avengers forever. Two completely different characters. I want Slott to come in and say that that Wasn't really Kang just one of those fake Cross time Kangs so he can fix Bendis' characterizations like what he did with Chaos Magic. :o
 
I love Bendis and agree with SecretNerdGirl that he's a great storyteller. :)

Suck on that haters! :cmad:
 
We all already knew you were a Bendisvengers fanboy, JH. You can't shock us with your bad taste anymore. :oldrazz:
 
Which pretty much invalidates your opinion.

YOU did that. All by yourself! :awesome:
 
Or shows how I am far more open to the amazingness of storytelling than you losers.
 
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