The Official Avengers Thread (Heroic Age Bendis/JRJR)

[JewishHobbit]

Better than OMD and everything since BND

 

[Anubis]

I wouldn't know, Spidey's dead to me.

 

[JewishHobbit]

He's not dead to me yet... he's still choking on his own blood, gasping for air while everyone cheers. It's very sad

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I look forward to the Fantastic Four's return so that I can drop FF and go back to pretending Spider-Man doesn't exist anymore.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I don't want Spider-Man to not exist... just Peter Parker.That's the aspect of the character that's screwed up. Just plain ol' Spidey is fine. That's why I like him in Avengers. Peter Parker's a very minor role and when he is acknowledged Bendis brings nothing of his personal life into it. The only time I hated it was when Bendis had to redo the unmasking and that honestly felt editorially forced so I didn't blame him for it.

 

[Hawkingbird]

I do read some complex stories, but the graphic novels here cost an arm and a leg. And to be fare, Cap did put up a BIT of a fight. I think he was also a bit loose about it because of what had just happend with Wanda.
I'm not new to the comics. I'm 14 now, and started reading them when I was like 5. My Dad, who has been reading since the 60's, thinks Bendis is great too. He's found a charity shop which sells a few earlier comics from the early 2000's, (he's got like 5 boxes of his old ones from his childhood), I've started reading Universe X, and I want to read Yellow Daredevil.
Anyway, we all have are own opinions. I'm sure there are some epic writers out there but the truth is, I can't afford them. We can only really afford to buy three or four CA's, Mighty World Of Marvel (currently running the Mighty Avengers and the Son of Hulk Story), Marvel Legends (Iron Man, Thor and Captain America Reborn), and X Men (Kitty Pride coming back t and Avengers Unquonquered. Reading the letters section, everyone loves Bendis.



Please excuse my spelling, I'm great at English till I spell....

 

[JewishHobbit]

Just a hint... Universe X will be very confusing unless you've read Earth X first.

And don't worry about the spelling, most of us native to English suck at spelling

 

[runawayboulder]

All you guys need to seriously get over this Spider-Man is dead to me silliness. Slott is doing killer work on ASM and the book has seemingly been clear of upper editorial tampering for months and months now.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I read Slott's run until the end of the FF arc... it's over rated in my eyes. I personally don't think he writes a very good Spider-Man... though the arc dealing with Marla's death was very good.

And it's hard to get over when every issue still screams the aftermath of OMD. Even if it isn't mentioned, it's there to be seen.

 

[runawayboulder]

And it's hard to get over when every issue still screams the aftermath of OMD. Even if it isn't mentioned, it's there to be seen.

Not sure what you mean by this.....care to give an example?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

All you guys need to seriously get over this Spider-Man is dead to me silliness. Slott is doing killer work on ASM and the book has seemingly been clear of upper editorial tampering for months and months now.

He's dead to me more out of disinterest than any lingering anger over "OMD." My interest was waning since about halfway through JMS' run because I was getting way more into other characters at that time while Spider-Man's comics were largely terrible. "OMD" was just the final nail in the coffin. The publishers look at reboots as the ultimate jumping-on points, but they're quite handy as jumping-off points too. I'm ditching a whole slew of DC's comics with their upcoming reboot too.

 

[Anubis]

^What he said.

I wasn't all that into Spidey to begin with, but OMD came, and I decided I was done with him.

Everyman my fuzzy black ass.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Not sure what you mean by this.....care to give an example?

Every issue showcases that Peter made the conscious decision to give up his marriage to MJ by having them not together. He's with Carlie. He and MJ were never married because MJ got cold feet. Aunt May is alive and well. People don't know Peter's identity. Up until Big Time around abouts, Harry was still alive and prominant.

All of this is still pointing toward OMD, so though the characters aren't talking about Mephisto or anything it's still the same plot from the final issue of OMD. So if we don't like what came as a result of OMD then we can still not like ASM because it's still there. I tried to get over it, reading a few things here and there, and really gave Slott a good chance... but I just can't get into this new Spider-Man so I decided to stop bothering. This isn't in any way the same character that I grew up reading so I choose not to have anything to do with him.

 

[runawayboulder]

OMD was Quesada's gig and he's the boss. Slott was not going to reverse that just because he became the sole writer, it's crazy to think otherwise. If you're boss made a new rule at work are you going to turn around and ignore it? Well, you can but you'll be filing for unemployment very soon.

I don't agree with OMD at all but it's old news and it is what it is at this point. I'm not going to hold a grudge because of my love for the character. It's not like there's glaring in your face verbal references every 5 seconds.

And to be honest, Spider-Man needed a reboot so to speak. Marvel had already f-ed him up so bad, the unmasking, the powers from The Other, ect. If you take OMD and didn't include reversing the marriage - I'd welcome that sucker with open arms.

Because that's what it's all about at the end of the day, they erased the marriage and everybody's pissed. I felt the same way after I read Spectacular Spider-Man #229 when Pete gave Ben the Spider-Man costume in a brown paper bag then casually walked off into the sunset. Marvel was smart to reverse it 15 months later - hell, it was their ONLY choice.

 

[moraldeficiency]

OMD was Quesada's gig and he's the boss. Slott was not going to reverse that just because he became the sole writer, it's crazy to think otherwise. If you're boss made a new rule at work are you going to turn around and ignore it? Well, you can but you'll be filing for unemployment very soon.

I don't agree with OMD at all but it's old news and it is what it is at this point. I'm not going to hold a grudge because of my love for the character. It's not like there's glaring in your face verbal references every 5 seconds.

And to be honest, Spider-Man needed a reboot so to speak. Marvel had already f-ed him up so bad, the unmasking, the powers from The Other, ect. If you take OMD and didn't include reversing the marriage - I'd welcome that sucker with open arms.

Because that's what it's all about at the end of the day, they erased the marriage and everybody's pissed. I felt the same way after I read Spectacular Spider-Man #229 when Pete gave Ben the Spider-Man costume in a brown paper bag then casually walked off into the sunset. Marvel was smart to reverse it 15 months later - hell, it was their ONLY choice.

Well let's be fair here, first the unmasking was allowed because OMD was in the wings. Slott is actually bringing back some of his other powers (peter can once again use other parts of his body to make things stick other than his hands and feet) as seen in the antivenom issue. Every scene with either carlie or mj kind does bring up the issue along.

I don't think the issue was undoing the marriage, at least it wasn't for most people. It was that peter parker quite literally made a deal with the devil and what's more he didn't learn anything from it. It's the opposite of that whole responsibility thing. He became spider-man because he didn't stop a mugger as a kid and that had bad consequences but when the devil literally appears and says hey why don't we do this, what does peter do?

Agreed it was an editorial mandate and it isn't slott's fault, but it's still there, it's still the basis for all current spider-man stories. It's like saying batman raped robin to death but now he's in some great stories... you just can't look at him the same way.

 

[runawayboulder]

I highly doubt they unmasked him because OMD was already planned out. The one happened over a year and a half before the other.

 

[Anubis]

Time in comics doesn't really mean s**t. A year and a half is a storyarc and a half. They totally could have and probably did plan to do this from the moment Millar said he was gonna unmask him. They aren't making this stuff up as they go along.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Pretty much. Quesada wanted this for a while. And as long as they were going to reboot spider-man they might as well give civil war a bit more bang for the buck.

 

[runawayboulder]

They have creative meetings or "summits" several times throughout the year. So in essence, they do make it up as they go along. The moment they unmasked him they knew it would one day be reversed, just like when they killed Jean Grey (the first time) or put Osborn into power. The specifics are never laid out right away.

It's the same with the folks that complained about SIEGE's tagline - "7 years in the making". Yeah, the core of the Avengers hadn't been together in 7 years but the specifics events that occurred to get to were never written ahead of time.

 

[thjan]

Every issue showcases that Peter made the conscious decision to give up his marriage to MJ by having them not together. He's with Carlie. He and MJ were never married because MJ got cold feet. Aunt May is alive and well. People don't know Peter's identity. Up until Big Time around abouts, Harry was still alive and prominant.

All of this is still pointing toward OMD, so though the characters aren't talking about Mephisto or anything it's still the same plot from the final issue of OMD. So if we don't like what came as a result of OMD then we can still not like ASM because it's still there. I tried to get over it, reading a few things here and there, and really gave Slott a good chance... but I just can't get into this new Spider-Man so I decided to stop bothering. This isn't in any way the same character that I grew up reading so I choose not to have anything to do with him.

Well said. I feel the same way.

I highly doubt they unmasked him because OMD was already planned out. The one happened over a year and a half before the other.

Sorry, but here it is straight from the horse's mouth-

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&old=1&id=12673

The relevant sentence being this-

In the end, knowing what that story was going to be is what allowed us to go ahead with the unmasking of Spider-Man in "Civil War" -- we had our "way out" ahead of time, it was a great place to be.

 

[JewishHobbit]

OMD was Quesada's gig and he's the boss. Slott was not going to reverse that just because he became the sole writer, it's crazy to think otherwise. If you're boss made a new rule at work are you going to turn around and ignore it? Well, you can but you'll be filing for unemployment very soon.

Oh, I never expect Slott to reverse it. He's too "married" to the idea to even consider it.

I don't agree with OMD at all but it's old news and it is what it is at this point. I'm not going to hold a grudge because of my love for the character.

It's because of my love for the character that I DO hold a grudge (well, that's the wrong wording because I'm beyond the ranting angry roll). Fact remains, they crapped all over the character and his history and kept it going until fans "got over it" (as you're an example of). It just isn't the same character that I've read for 20 years. Peter in Amazing Spider-Man is really no different from Peter in Ultimate Spider-Man for me... so why bother anymore?

And to be honest, Spider-Man needed a reboot so to speak. Marvel had already f-ed him up so bad, the unmasking, the powers from The Other, ect. If you take OMD and didn't include reversing the marriage - I'd welcome that sucker with open arms.

Nah... even then I wouldn't have liked it. I liked the unmasking and the powers that came with the Other. The rebirth thing was odd but I loved the nightvision, sticking to other parts of the body, web vibrations, etc. Organic webbing was alright but I can take it or leave it. The stingers I could also take or leave. But truth is, if they only changed that stuff I'd have likely stuck with the title through love of the character... but the wedding issue undid the character and his history. THAT I couldn't cope with.

I felt the same way after I read Spectacular Spider-Man #229 when Pete gave Ben the Spider-Man costume in a brown paper bag then casually walked off into the sunset. Marvel was smart to reverse it 15 months later - hell, it was their ONLY choice.

I didn't mind Peter giving Ben the costume. I just didn't like that they tried to make Ben Peter all along. I was glad when the undid that and now in hindsight the Clone Saga is one of my favorite Comic stories of all time

 

[Anubis]

They have creative meetings or "summits" several times throughout the year. So in essence, they do make it up as they go along. The moment they unmasked him they knew it would one day be reversed, just like when they killed Jean Grey (the first time) or put Osborn into power. The specifics are never laid out right away.

It's the same with the folks that complained about SIEGE's tagline - "7 years in the making". Yeah, the core of the Avengers hadn't been together in 7 years but the specifics events that occurred to get to were never written ahead of time.

Well said. I feel the same way.



Sorry, but here it is straight from the horse's mouth-

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&old=1&id=12673

The relevant sentence being this-

Boosh!

 

[runawayboulder]

Looks like you guys were right and I was wrong. It doesn't change the fact that ASM has rebounded under the sole voice of Slott and there has been zero evidence of upper editorial interference for a while now.

 

[JewishHobbit]

In your opinion. I honestly don't see any improvement in Slott's run. I feel his Spider-Man acts too immature and all the "Big Time" developments are just thrown in there and tacked on. Peter is still too much of a dork when he's moved well beyond that through the years, and so it feels a bit regressed. His big brain moments feel forced (at least through the FF storyline), the changing of costumes got old real fast, and it just feels like Slott's trying too hard. His storyline with Phil Urich is interesting but that's about as far as it goes for me. Slott's a good writer but I'm not a fan of his rendition of Spider-Man.

Not to mention within his first few issues he ribbed the marriage at least twice off the top of my head. He claimed that was not the intent, at least with the first one, but I still don't buy that. If it really wasn't the intent then there's far bigger problems with Marvel being out of touch than was originally thought... in my opinion anyhow.

 

[runawayboulder]

I feel his Spider-Man acts too immature and all the "Big Time" developments are just thrown in there and tacked on. Peter is still too much of a dork when he's moved well beyond that through the years, and so it feels a bit regressed.

But yet you're a fan of Bendis' Avengers where he constantly makes him out to be a wet behind the ears rookie.....