The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 1

[antonydelfini]

BTW, Floyd should win his 3rd Fighter of the Year award if he beats Canelo.

 

[Docker2.0]

Eh, I hear you and understand but again, I don't Mayweather one bit. If he added the fight night weight fine then yeah I can see the piling on because on fight night, Canelo will be at LEAST 168, Ward's weight. But he hasn't so I don't see what the big deal is. He's fighting one of the best out there and let's be real, its more than Paq can say as he once again fights a guy coming off a loss in Arum's camp. Arum is Don King reincarnated.

 

[antonydelfini]

Eh, I hear you and understand but again, I don't Mayweather one bit. If he added the fight night weight fine then yeah I can see the piling on because on fight night, Canelo will be at LEAST 168, Ward's weight. But he hasn't so I don't see what the big deal is. He's fighting one of the best out there and let's be real, its more than Paq can say as he once again fights a guy coming off a loss in Arum's camp. Arum is Don King reincarnated.

-I have issues with the catchweight, but the biggest issue is Floyd's hypocrisy. In his own words, a fighter wasn't really beaten if he was beaten in a catchweight, and now he's doing it. And that's what's bugging fight fans the most. The catchweight's not a big deal, it's the lies Floyd said about his stance on catchweights just to take digs on Pacquiao.

-Bob Arum is not as bad as Don King, but pretty close. He cares only for money, not boxing.

-I ain't giving Manny no credit if he beats Rios. Rios is coming of a loss and is fighting for the first time in the welter division. But it's just a tune-up, to see if he's still got it or not after the Marquez KO.

-But I'm giving credit to Pacquiao for his last 2 fights. For fighting and unofficially beating Bradley (an undefeated and true welter ranked in the top 10 pound for pound list) and doing well against Marquez until the KO (another fighter in the top 10 pound for pound).

-Canelo is not yet in the top 10, but he's the king of the 154 division and is one of the most popular boxers, so Floyd beating him should make him the FOY, which he deserves this year. But yeah, if I use Floyd's logic and reasoning ("if you beat a fighter in a catchweight, you didn't really beat him"), he ain't really beating Canelo since it's a catchweight. But no, I'm not gonna use his logic. And if he beats Canelo, he deserves the full credit. The same way Pacman did against Cotto and Margarito.

 

[Poetic Chaos]

If he Manny proves he still has it against Rios, his next fight needs to be Broner to have any chance of setting up a Mayweather fight.

 

[Doc Samson]

Doc, it's a fact in boxing that going below your natural weight is a bad thing. Yes you'll have a bigger frame than your opponent, but you'll be sluggish and weaker as it involves dehydrating oneself and not eating. You gain weight after the weigh-in and that's considered as a bad thing. Look at Oscar during the Pacman fight or Roy Jones vs Tarver fight. Losing weight is usually more dangerous for a fighter than moving up in weight that's why moving up in weight is common while moving down is rare. It's just a general boxing fact.

Most boxers start young & move up in weight as they age because almost every human gains weight as they age. And most fighters, boxing or MMA, fight in weight classes lower than their walking around weight because it's more advantageous if you can condition yourself to do so, that's pretty much across the board.

Roy Jones is an extreme case, because he went well beyond what his normal weight is, gained most of that weight in muscle, and then had to lose it in order to face Tarver. Even the Oscar example's a bit extreme because he was coming back down to a weight he hadn't fought at in years, and doing it on the downside of his career too.

Canelo walks around in the 170s and after the weigh-in he balloons back up to around 170, it's a customary thing for him, and that's the weight he always carries into the ring. Structurally he's a natural middle to super middleweight. It might hurt him simply because he has a reputation for not being in peak condition anyway.

But to say that he won't have any advantage at all I can't agree with, when you consider that Floyd never gains more than 2 pounds from weigh-in to fight time. Floyd is a natural welterweight, he walks around that way. He'll be about 20 pounds lighter when the bell rings regardless of what the weigh-in limit is.

 

[Docker2.0]

Yep! And that will show in this fight. Hopefully he won't get hit to hard, though Canelo does have some power.

 

[Poetic Chaos]

So Doc, just to clarify, you had no problems with Paq's catchweight fights?

 

[Iron_Stark]

So Doc, just to clarify, you had no problems with Paq's catchweight fights?

No he didn't, after the Mayweather/Cotto fight, I came on here saying how Pac beat Cotto way more impressive, the Flomos on here shot back with how Cotto was weight drained, how Pac needed a catchweight for an advantage and how all of Pac's past fights at catchweights are BS.

Now all of a sudden since Mayweather is doing it, catchweights are fine??

Hypocrisy at it's finest right there.

 

[Doc Samson]

So Doc, just to clarify, you had no problems with Paq's catchweight fights?

No, I had problems with people not recognizing his opponents were tailor made for his style. No matter the weight, Margarito, Cotto, De La Hoya (at that stage) & Clottey didn't have the hand speed, defense or work rate to pose a real challenge to Manny's style. So to me, those victories were never as impressive as his fans made them out to be. The only time I've seen him in the ring with fighters who tried to box a little bit, and not just charge at him, he either lost or should've lost.

IMO, outside of their first fight which I considered a draw, he lost every time he faced Marquez and it was entirely because Marquez is a competent counter-puncher, not just a brawler. So while I respect Manny as a legendary fighter, I never considered him a good enough boxer to really challenge Floyd. It's the guys like Iron Stark who come in here trying to downplay everything Floyd did that made me point out these things with Manny, but I never criticized him about catchweights. Speaking of which....

No he didn't, after the Mayweather/Cotto fight, I came on here saying how Pac beat Cotto way more impressive, the Flomos on here shot back with how Cotto was weight drained, how Pac needed a catchweight for an advantage and how all of Pac's past fights at catchweights are BS.

Now all of a sudden since Mayweather is doing it, catchweights are fine??

Hypocrisy at it's finest right there.

I never made a big deal about that, I made a big deal about how all his opponents that he was getting praised for were made to order, slow and plodding brawlers. The Cotto fight was more competitive with Floyd because Floyd wasn't trying to move off the ropes, something you claim he always does, or run around. He didn't do any of that but could've boxed Cotto's head off had he chosen to.

Manny on the other hand got knocked out by a guy who's just a decent counterpuncher, and you were trying to tell me he'd be a problem for Mayweather, who's the best in the business at countering. It was just senseless.

 

[Iron_Stark]

No, I had problems with people not recognizing his opponents were tailor made for his style. No matter the weight, Margarito, Cotto, De La Hoya (at that stage) & Clottey didn't have the hand speed, defense or work rate to pose a real challenge to Manny's style. So to me, those victories were never as impressive as his fans made them out to be. The only time I've seen him in the ring with fighters who tried to box a little bit, and not just charge at him, he either lost or should've lost.

IMO, outside of their first fight which I considered a draw, he lost every time he faced Marquez and it was entirely because Marquez is a competent counter-puncher, not just a brawler. So while I respect Manny as a legendary fighter, I never considered him a good enough boxer to really challenge Floyd. It's the guys like Iron Stark who come in here trying to downplay everything Floyd did that made me point out these things with Manny, but I never criticized him about catchweights. Speaking of which....



I never made a big deal about that, I made a big deal about how all his opponents that he was getting praised for were made to order, slow and plodding brawlers. The Cotto fight was more competitive with Floyd because Floyd wasn't trying to move off the ropes, something you claim he always does, or run around. He didn't do any of that but could've boxed Cotto's head off had he chosen to.

Manny on the other hand got knocked out by a guy who's just a decent counterpuncher, and you were trying to tell me he'd be a problem for Mayweather, who's the best in the business at countering. It was just senseless.

Mayweather does the same thing, cherry picks his opponents and tries to take every advantage possible. What master boxer has Mayweather fought recently, if ever? When was the last time he looked spectacular and didn't bore people? Apart from the cheap shot he landed on Ortiz, he hasn't had a legitimate KO since 2007.

And now that there's no more weight drain excuses, or catchweight excuses, except for JMM, all of the common opponent that Mayweather and Pac had, Pac looked way more impressive, Mayweather struggled with Cotto and Delahoya, got rocked by Mosley, went deep into the fight with Hatton (him being the only one he KO'd). Meanwhile Pac mollywhopped all of them, bad. Correct?

 

[Doc Samson]

Mayweather does the same thing, cherry picks his opponents and tries to take every advantage possible. What master boxer has Mayweather fought recently, if ever? When was the last time he looked spectacular and didn't bore people? Apart from the cheap shot he landed on Ortiz, he hasn't had a legitimate KO since 2007.

And now that there's no more weight drain excuses, or catchweight excuses, except for JMM, all of the common opponent that Mayweather and Pac had, Pac looked way more impressive, Mayweather struggled with Cotto and Delahoya, got rocked by Mosley, went deep into the fight with Hatton (him being the only one he KO'd). Meanwhile Pac mollywhopped all of them, bad. Correct?

We've been through this millions of times. To you, a fight is boring if nobody gets knocked out or if it's not a brawl, that's fine it's your opinion. I like boxing, I like Ward, Mayweather, Hopkins, Sweet Pea, Ray Leonard, guys that have craftiness and skill to their game.

And like I just said, Mayweather didn't get off the ropes against Cotto because he didn't want to, that's the only reason it was even slightly close. And he almost knocked him out in the 12th. Floyd got rocked by Mosley, sure, but there's no way in hell you're going to tell me Manny looked great against him, he didn't do anything the whole second half of the fight, it's actually one of his most boring fights to date (that or Clottey).

And if we're gonna be technical, Manny fought Hatton, Oscar & Mosley after Floyd did it. Hatton was still undefeated at the time, Mosley was coming off one of the best victories of his career, and Oscar was past his prime THEN.

So how in the hell can you say Mayweather cherrypicks these guys, then at the same time try to praise Manny for fighting the same people AFTER Floyd already did it? If Oscar & Shane were old against Floyd, then what were they by the time Pac fought them? Ortiz, Guerrero & Canelo are younger than most of the fighters Pac's faced in years. Do you realize how you never make sense?

 

[Poetic Chaos]

Manny actually beat Hatton at his undefeated weight though, so that victory was undoubtedly better than Mayweather's imo.

 

[Iron_Stark]

We've been through this millions of times. To you, a fight is boring if nobody gets knocked out or if it's not a brawl, that's fine it's your opinion. I like boxing, I like Ward, Mayweather, Hopkins, Sweet Pea, Ray Leonard, guys that have craftiness and skill to their game.

And like I just said, Mayweather didn't get off the ropes against Cotto because he didn't want to, that's the only reason it was even slightly close. And he almost knocked him out in the 12th. Floyd got rocked by Mosley, sure, but there's no way in hell you're going to tell me Manny looked great against him, he didn't do anything the whole second half of the fight, it's actually one of his most boring fights to date (that or Clottey).

And if we're gonna be technical, Manny fought Hatton, Oscar & Mosley after Floyd did it. Hatton was still undefeated at the time, Mosley was coming off one of the best victories of his career, and Oscar was past his prime THEN.

So how in the hell can you say Mayweather cherrypicks these guys, then at the same time try to praise Manny for fighting the same people AFTER Floyd already did it? If Oscar & Shane were old against Floyd, then what were they by the time Pac fought them? Ortiz, Guerrero & Canelo are younger than most of the fighters Pac's faced in years. Do you realize how you never make sense?

I'm not praising anyone's choice of opponents, I'm just comparing the common opponents both fighters have had. And in that, Manny has looked way better, there's no excuses anymore and no denying it.

As for the Pac/Mosely fight, after Mosley got knocked down he ran the rest of the night, real pathetic on his part.

And who cares how young Ortiz and Guerrero, neither are elite fighters, they're the same caliber fighter of guys like Judah, Sosa. Ndou and other cans that Mayweather made a career of beating. So they beat Berto, big whoop, Berto was ass from the beginning, he was protected way worse than Chavez Jr and his title win was the biggest joke in recent history.

If Pac had fought Ortiz and Guerrero, all the Flomos would be up in arms making saying how terrible those matchups were like they are right now with Brandon Rios. I'll give Mayweather some credit for taking the Canelo fight, but not full since he's demanding a catchweight.

 

[Docker2.0]

Iron, your hypocrisy is amazing!

 

[Iron_Stark]

Iron, your hypocrisy is amazing!

You were VERY vocal about Pac's past catchweight fights, do you have a problem with Mayweather demanding a catchweight for his upcoming fight?

 

[Doc Samson]

I'm not praising anyone's choice of opponents, I'm just comparing the common opponents both fighters have had. And in that, Manny has looked way better, there's no excuses anymore and no denying it.

As for the Pac/Mosely fight, after Mosley got knocked down he ran the rest of the night, real pathetic on his part.

And who cares how young Ortiz and Guerrero, neither are elite fighters, they're the same caliber fighter of guys like Judah, Sosa. Ndou and other cans that Mayweather made a career of beating. So they beat Berto, big whoop, Berto was ass from the beginning, he was protected way worse than Chavez Jr and his title win was the biggest joke in recent history.

If Pac had fought Ortiz and Guerrero, all the Flomos would be up in arms making saying how terrible those matchups were like they are right now with Brandon Rios. I'll give Mayweather some credit for taking the Canelo fight, but not full since he's demanding a catchweight.

Had Pacquiao fought Canelo, you would've ran in here talking about how he's so courageous and takes on the real challengers, catchweight or not. But since it's Floyd, you'll use that reason to discredit him, even though he's fighting the exact same guy you swore he wouldn't want to be caught dead around.

There wouldn't be so many vocal supporters of Mayweather if there weren't so many vocal haters such as yourself. I never said anything bad about Manny until someone like you is trying to tell me his resume is better. Then I feel justified in telling you how it's not.

Manny's handlers said it themselves, no "flomo" (whatever the f*** that means) fan needs to say anything. They explained why they chose Rios, and it's exactly because of the same things I've been telling you for years now.

 

[The Game]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/boxing--floyd-mayweather-jr--needs-to-gamble-inside-the-ring-162733801.html

What a hilariously stupid article

 

[Doc Samson]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/boxing...eeds-to-gamble-inside-the-ring-162733801.html

What a hilariously stupid article

Utterly ridiculous. Martinez needs to step up and fight him, I've been calling for that for over a year now. Either that or a nice sendoff match with Hopkins (who I think he owes a lot of his style to) But it's that same type of media generated ignorance that helped Roy Jones destroy his career.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Mayweather wouldn't ride in the same elevator as Ward, much less get in the ring with him.

 

[Doc Samson]

And seemingly, neither would Sergio, JCC jr or Froch (even though he's considering a rematch, I'm sure he had enough)

Regardless, Floyd has NO business trying to fight a true super middleweight like Ward, even if Canelo will weigh damn near the same as one on fight night. Are people that desperate for him to lose? Smh...

 

[Iron_Stark]

And seemingly, neither would Sergio, JCC jr or Froch (even though he's considering a rematch, I'm sure he had enough)

Regardless, Floyd has NO business trying to fight a true super middleweight like Ward, even if Canelo will weigh damn near the same as one on fight night. Are people that desperate for him to lose? Smh...

Why would you want Sergio move up in weight when he can barely make the 160 limit? You say Mayweather shouldn't fight heavier guys yet it's ok for other fighters to fight at weights where they don't belong?

Want someone else to dispose of Mayweather's boogeyman?

JCC Jr? What a joke, everyone knows Ward would easily beat him.

 

[Doc Samson]

Why would you want Sergio move up in weight when he can barely make the 160 limit? You say Mayweather shouldn't fight heavier guys yet it's ok for other fighters to fight at weights where they don't belong?

Want someone else to dispose of Mayweather's boogeyman?

JCC Jr? What a joke, everyone knows Ward would easily beat him.

JCC jr is at least a name and I've told you before Ward needs more notable names to gain some more recognition and become a star.

As far as Sergio is concerned, let me get this straight. You, on countless occasions, wanted Mayweather to move up a class to fight Sergio and even called him scared because he didn't. But Sergio can't move up a class to fight Ward? What's the difference? On top of that, if Sergio is struggling so bad to make weight, why can't he come down to fight Floyd then? Oh I got it, catchweight again, right? Once again, hypocrisy at it's finest.

 

[Docker2.0]

Mayweather wouldn't ride in the same elevator as Ward, much less get in the ring with him.

Crazy thing is that you actually believe what you post.

And seemingly, neither would Sergio, JCC jr or Froch (even though he's considering a rematch, I'm sure he had enough)

Regardless, Floyd has NO business trying to fight a true super middleweight like Ward, even if Canelo will weigh damn near the same as one on fight night. Are people that desperate for him to lose? Smh...

Agreed but the crazy part is, they wouldn't mind Mayweather fighting a Klitchs, but Manny to fight say a Canelo or even an Adrian Broner who has called out Manny numerous times, It's not "time" yet.

 

[Iron_Stark]

JCC jr is at least a name and I've told you before Ward needs more notable names to gain some more recognition and become a star.

As far as Sergio is concerned, let me get this straight. You, on countless occasions, wanted Mayweather to move up a class to fight Sergio and even called him scared because he didn't. But Sergio can't move up a class to fight Ward? What's the difference? On top of that, if Sergio is struggling so bad to make weight, why can't he come down to fight Floyd then? Oh I got it, catchweight again, right? Once again, hypocrisy at it's finest.

Ward's boring style and him never leaving Oakland will never make him a superstar. He's almost 30 and still relatively unknown to people outside of boxing. When did he win Olympic Gold? A decade ago? He should've sacked up and fought in Vegas, or out in the East Coast a long ass time ago, got more exposure on HBO or Showtime. His time to get as well known as De La Hoya and Mayweather has come and gone.

Sergio has said multiple times that he's willing to go back down to 154 to fight BOTH Mayeather and Pac.

I have no problem with Martinez moving up, I really don't care, that's why I was asking YOU. Why is it ok for some fighters to move up in weights where they don't belong, but when it comes to Mayweather, it's not.

And about catchweights? What's your point? Mayweather and all the Flomos were the ones making a huge deal about catchweights in the past, so don't try to come on here and me out to be the one with the problem with catchweights. Everytime I've been bringing up the catchweight issue recently is to show how much of a hypocrite Mayweather and his followers are.

 

[Doc Samson]

Ward's boring style and him never leaving Oakland will never make him a superstar. He's almost 30 and still relatively unknown to people outside of boxing. When did he win Olympic Gold? A decade ago? He should've sacked up and fought in Vegas, or out in the East Coast a long ass time ago, got more exposure on HBO or Showtime. His time to get as well known as De La Hoya and Mayweather has come and gone.

His style is no different than B Hop's, he's just in a division with no real names in it.

Sergio has said multiple times that he's willing to go back down to 154 to fight BOTH Mayeather and Pac.

To fight Pac he was going to have to go lower than that, which is part of the reason he doesn't want to fight him anymore.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/bo...ny-Pacquiao-wants-Floyd-Mayweather-fight.html

Never heard you call Pac scared of him once. How come?

I have no problem with Martinez moving up, I really don't care, that's why I was asking YOU. Why is it ok for some fighters to move up in weights where they don't belong, but when it comes to Mayweather, it's not.

I'm not ok with any fighter going well beyond what's natural for them. I had a huge issue with Roy Jones going to Heavyweight, I didn't like James Toney doing it either. Likewise, I don't like JCC jr or Canelo fighting well below their weight, but that's what they've been allowed to do to have that advantage and beat on some cans. Martinez, while not the biggest middleweight, can sure as hell adapt to welterweight or super middleweight demands, he can do either somewhat comfortably.

Floyd should not have to fight no damn super middleweights because his frame will never be comfortable at that weight. What's so hard to grasp about that?