The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 2

[Doc Samson]

There is a HUGE difference between Mike Tyson, Roy Jones Jr and Floyd Mayweather! A HUGE difference. With Tyson there was excitement. Yes there was frustration.

For example my Dad is a stereotypical CHEAP Greek. I remember when he shelled out the $$ for the Tyson vs Spinks fight and missed the fight when he went into the kitchen for a beer.

Atleast however the fights were you got your money's worth with Iron Mike. Mayweather, not even close. He hungs all night and runs. Mark my words he will retire before he fights Pac Man again. He did it to De La Hoya.

Well we'll agree to disagree on De La Hoya, I thought Oscar got 4-5 early rounds and lost pretty much the rest of the way.

As far as Tyson, that frustration is exactly my point. Yeah it might've been excitement for a few seconds, but it wasn't competitive. And a lot of people weren't thrilled about shelling out PPV money for that, just like they don't care for a 12 round boxing clinic. A true boxing enthusiast understands that it's simply unrealistic to expect Gatti-Ward every fight.

The point is, "casual fans" are called that for a reason. They make things huge, and mainstream, but they don't dictate the sport nor do they create the buzz around the up and coming guys. The sport is, and will be, just fine.

I can agree with this statement!!

I just wish Boxing would take a page from the UFC. Force guys to fight. Buy having only 1 World title per weight class that will force guys to fight each other for a title shot.

I understand that, but when guys are marketed and promoted properly, they usually end up in the ring together. It might not happen at the perfect time of everyone's liking, but the money talks eventually.

 

[herakles]

I understand that, but when guys are marketed and promoted properly, they usually end up in the ring together. It might not happen at the perfect time of everyone's liking, but the money talks eventually.

The problem with that is the promoters. Promoters hoard their top fighters like misers hoard gold. I feel that is part of the reason why there are so many world titles. Don King for example used only work with fighters not controlled by him if he got a cut from those fighters' future fights. Multiple World titles allow promoters protect their world champ.

 

[Doc Samson]

Of course, they do it all the time. But what I mean is, eventually, when there are two opponents with big names who draw money, the promoters can't help themselves and want a piece of that bigger pie.

With all the hoopla about matchups and things like that, I can't think of too many true, big time fights that didn't happen over the last decade.

 

[Assassin32]

Boxing is not dying. Boxing will never die. Man has always had two fists and a reason to fight. The richest fight in the history of prizefighting took place about a week ago. If upwards of $300 million is a death knell, then sign me up for execution.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Boxing will never die.

Now the U.S. interest in boxing? Well after the sour taste "the fight of the century" left in everyone's mouth, that's a different story.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Boxing in the US is great. Is it a middle America sport now? No. But plenty in the US enjoy boxing every weekend.

 

[Doc Samson]

Now the U.S. interest in boxing? Well after the sour taste "the fight of the century" left in everyone's mouth, that's a different story.

Lol, it's only sour to people like you, who hung their hopes on Pacquiao actually coming to do something different from everyone else Floyd freezes up.

 

[Docker2.0]

To the average fan Boxing IS dying! Boxing is a spectator sport that needs the average to novice fan to buy tickets and PPVs just like in any other Sport to keep it going.



Shows suit people can make money? LOL DUDE everyone I have talked to has said that they will never buy another PPV again after the Mayweather Pac Man fight. Boxing needs the average fan far more that the die hards because there are more novice fans than there are die hard fans.

Just look at the UFC for example every fight from prelims to Main Event are stacked. Boxing IS dying simply because they refuse to force people to fight.

"Why should I fight a (tough fight) that guy!? He isn't even rated in the top 5 in the IBO!! I am 18-0 and the IFO World Champ. I am the CHamp, I get to choose who I fight." That IS the reason why Boxing is dying! Too many champs. too many egos. Force people to fight each other! Stack the Undercards! Boxing needs to eliminate all those World titles. That will force people to fight each other for securing a Title shot.

Boxing isn't dying! Tell me how, on average, UFC PPV's do. And don't even talk about UFC fighters salaries without endorsements! Most of them work full times jobs to survive. Canelo, Kirkland, Thurman, and Guerraro made more in their last fights than most UFC fighters, including Ronda Rousey. For all the talk that UFC is better and more action is bs. Most of the time the guy is rolling around on the ground for 3-4 minutes.

There is a HUGE difference between Mike Tyson, Roy Jones Jr and Floyd Mayweather! A HUGE difference. With Tyson there was excitement. Yes there was frustration.

For example my Dad is a stereotypical CHEAP Greek. I remember when he shelled out the $$ for the Tyson vs Spinks fight and missed the fight when he went into the kitchen for a beer.

Atleast how ever short Tyson's fights were you got your money's worth with Iron Mike. Mayweather, not even close. He hungs all night and runs. Mark my words he will retire before he fights Pac Man again. He did it to De La Hoya.

Roy Jones Jr in his prime was unbeatable. He used Near Super Hero Like athleticism to win fights. He relied on his physical skills so much that he never bothered to learn defense, simply because he never had too. When Roy dropped down from Heavyweight something changed in Jones Jr. He lose a little of that athleticism. He became "mortal" and with the lack defensive skill he became vulnerable. I personally wish he would retire. He is embarrassing his legacy just like Evander was.



I can agree with this statement!!

I just wish Boxing would take a page from the UFC. Force guys to fight. Buy having only 1 World title per weight class that will force guys to fight each other for a title shot.

Spoken like a true casual fan! The art of the game is hit and not to get hit. Floyd has the sweet science down and whether people want to admit it or not, he's up there with the all time greats and definetly the best of this era. There's a reason people want him to fight GGG, Hopkins and guys way out of his weight class. He has done his job well.

 

[Docker2.0]

Boxing will never die.

Now the U.S. interest in boxing? Well after the sour taste "the fight of the century" left in everyone's mouth, that's a different story.

I actually think the sour taste in people's mouth was that Paq lost and most people were rooting for him to win. Had it been the other way around and he won, we'd be singing an entirely different tune. Me and others have been saying for years that Paq was overrated and hasn't been fighting any elite fighters under Top Rank, it's how Arum rolls! Notice how JCC Jr got exposed quickly once he left TR?

 

[Uptown Finest]

If all that's true, boxing would've been dead years ago. The same "casual" fans had the same criticisms about Roy Jones when he was at the top, claiming he was ducking people, not knocking enough people out, yadda yadda yadda. When Tyson was knocking people out in 1-2 minutes, there was outrage over that too, because the fight was over too quick and fans paid money and wanted something "more" so it is what it is.

It's still here, and will be long after each of us is gone. Now whether it's a niche sport like Hockey or becomes more prominent again is another story. But to say it's going anywhere is sort of disrespectful to the history it already has...

Right now its a niche sport like Hockey and even MMA but can become prominent again like it was before.

 

[Harley2004]

I just wish Boxing would take a page from the UFC. Force guys to fight. Buy having only 1 World title per weight class that will force guys to fight each other for a title shot.

This is the truth. If professional boxing had a Dana White, what? Kovalev and Stevson would have fought year and a half ago, Manny and Mayweather would've fought in 2009.

 

[Doc Samson]

Right now its a niche sport like Hockey and even MMA but can become prominent again like it was before.

Ehh, I still say more people, or at least a more diverse amount of people, watch boxing as opposed to Hockey. Of course Hockey goes for a set amount of time each year, while most boxing fans have their favorites and whatnot. But with the right two people in the ring, it still stops the sporting world in a way Hockey hasn't since the Miracle on Ice.

This is the truth. If professional boxing had a Dana White, what? Kovalev and Stevson would have fought year and a half ago, Manny and Mayweather would've fought in 2009.

Probably, but with the Pac/Floyd fight, most likely the same outcome, if not worse. Manny became more cautious after Marquez, and he was still just inches away (a couple times) from running into a straight right from Floyd that would've had him in trouble.

 

[Docker2.0]

OMG! Broner vs Porter on tv and it's free! Al Haymon is killing it! I know some people(one guy) keeps bashing Haymon but dude has been giving up top fights this year!!

Spoiler

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2015/05/adrien-broner-vs-shawn-porter-on-june-20th-at-mgm-grand-las-vegas-nv/

 

[DarthSkywalker]

War Porter.

 

[BadrHari]

The casual fans most likely said they would never buy a "mayweather fight" again, not a "boxing fight again". And thats fine, Mayweather is not the entire sport of Boxing. When he doesn't fight, there will be another #1 fighter.

I traveled to Europe for business and Boxing is unbelievably massive there. The fans get behind their hometown hero like I've never seen before. I've visited Germany a few weeks before a Wladimir Klitschko fight and I am not kidding you that Europe worships Klitschko Brothers. In Europe, UFC is literally like paintball in US. Its around and has a few fans, but the general public doesn't really care. Nothing against UFC, its just in Europe, no one cares.

I get back to United States 9 months a year, and UFC was popular when Lesnar and GSP were around. Now, the bars are empty during UFC ppvs. I think Ronda is popular bc she's hot and gets some exposure, but the casual sports fan would rather watch a 24/7 documentary rather than a UFC ppv. I spoke to one big fan of fighting and he said the problem is the UFC promotes women and lighter weights and its killing the popularity. People are more interested in Boxing because the sport focuses on the stars rather than the no-names of UFC that no one knows nor cares about. I'm sure they are good and exciting, if your into it - but if the casual fan has no clue who's fighting next, their interest tends to disappear. What I've discovered is in the real world, you go to bars, talk to sports fans - UFC doesn't appeal to the casual viewer unless there is some sort of pro wrestling involved. UFC is big in California, Nevada, Mid-West & Brazil. But Boxing is big on a global level. I've also visited UK and they are obsessed with Carl Froch, Amir Khan, those guys... I once asked a business partner in UK when I was in London about 'Mike Bisping & UFC' and he said rarely anyone watches UFC unless they actually go to the event live and he didn't know who Mike Bisping was. When I go online, UFC fans tend to act very threatened by Boxing and very insecure. Rather than focusing on their sport, they will call out Mayweather and latch onto Boxer's names to create a buzz about their thing. The fans are also very young and very immature and will tend to be the loud minority and scream about how Boxing is dying and UFC is the next big thing - but the UFC had its moment with Lesnar & GSP, but then the sport kinda fell off the map. I'm sure hardcore fans will argue with that, but I think NBC Thurman vs. Guerrero did incredible numbers on network that UFC on Fox couldn't even top and they were established.

It's a strange thing, you go on MMA websites, they talk about Boxing is dying and how great Dana White is (who isnt even a fighter) and there is massive arguements with MMA fans and Boxing fans - but then, on Boxing websites, they don't even really discuss that kind of thing. There will be a few off topic UFC discussions, but they are just Boxing fans who enjoy UFC and will have mature conversations about it without negativity. I feel UFC is kind of Boxing's little sister type of thing. People say Boxing is dying, but you have GGG, Andre Ward, Wilder, Canelo coming up to the spotlight , meanwhile - UFC signs CM Punk, another pro wrestler to emulate Brock's popularity but without the skill set. I think that is kind of a sign maybe the UFC is dying. And then Bones Jones is in trouble with the law and suspended and none of the big fights ever pan out. Boxing managed to put on Mayweather vs. ODLH, Mayweather vs. Pacquaio, Mayweather vs. Canelo, Wladimir vs. David Haye - mega fights , not the most exciting, but they did put on the best versus the best. From my knowledge the biggest dream fights occured in Pride FC and once UFC grabbed a hold of the entire sport, the dream fights never took place - Fedor never fought Brock Lesnar & GSP never fought Anderson Silva & Anderson never fought Bones & Cain could be the best HW except you would never know this because he's fought the same two people for the last 5 years (bigfoot and junior). I respect the UFC and the fans that enjoy that sport, but I just feel when it comes to a big fighting event, the casual fan would much rather tune in for Boxing. Boxers get paid while UFC fighters have part time and full time jobs because the UFC has a monopoly on the sport and Dana does not spread the love to his fighters, while promoters are forced to give the boxers 70% to 80% of the proceeds from the events. Mayweather & Pacquiao in their last fight combined made more than the entire UFC roster in the last 6 years not including backroom bonuses or sponsorship deals.

Back to Boxing, I feel no one gives enough credit to HBO / Showtime for the success and buyrates of that ppv. Everyone is discussing the negativity rather than the positive outcome. I feel people are mad the fight was boring, but I'm very interested to see the numbers of Floyd's next PPV in September. Because if its a big success, than it proves the old saying "no such thing as bad publicitiy" - as all eyes are on Boxing right now.

I feel the general public is fascinated with Boxing and the fight of the century proved that Boxing is still alive and can create a massive amount of interest if promoted correctly.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Lol, it's only sour to people like you, who hung their hopes on Pacquiao actually coming to do something different from everyone else Floyd freezes up.

I actually think the sour taste in people's mouth was that Paq lost and most people were rooting for him to win. Had it been the other way around and he won, we'd be singing an entirely different tune. Me and others have been saying for years that Paq was overrated and hasn't been fighting any elite fighters under Top Rank, it's how Arum rolls! Notice how JCC Jr got exposed quickly once he left TR?

smdh, so I'm the ONLY one that thought the fight sucked? Or the only people that thought the fight sucked were Pac fans?

No, the fight sucked, the casuals that saw the fight thought it sucked, the media thought the fight sucked, people on social media thought the fight sucked, hard core fans thought the fight sucked, the only people that thought the fight was remotely watchable were FLOMOS.

JCC Jr leaving Top Rank had NOTHING to do with him getting exposed, while at Top Rank he got a couple of gift decisions, while at Top Rank he would balloon up in weight and miss contracted weights, while at Top Rank he lost his first fight. GTFO with this "he got exposed once he left TR" nonsense.

OMG! Broner vs Porter on tv and it's free! Al Haymon is killing it! I know some people(one guy) keeps bashing Haymon but dude has been giving up top fights this year!!

Spoiler

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2015/05/adrien-broner-vs-shawn-porter-on-june-20th-at-mgm-grand-las-vegas-nv/

What are these top fights that he's been giving us? Haymon is the biggest snake there is in boxing, yet you continue to praise him, because, we all know why.

Boxing isn't dying! Tell me how, on average, UFC PPV's do. And don't even talk about UFC fighters salaries without endorsements! Most of them work full times jobs to survive. Canelo, Kirkland, Thurman, and Guerraro made more in their last fights than most UFC fighters, including Ronda Rousey. For all the talk that UFC is better and more action is bs. Most of the time the guy is rolling around on the ground for 3-4 minutes.

Spoken like a true casual fan! The art of the game is hit and not to get hit. Floyd has the sweet science down and whether people want to admit it or not, he's up there with the all time greats and definetly the best of this era. There's a reason people want him to fight GGG, Hopkins and guys way out of his weight class. He has done his job well.

You say rolling MMAers "roll around on the ground" then defend Fraud's boring style? Really? LOL!! I bet if Jon Jones had a boring, roll around the ground for 5 minutes style, you'd be sucking him off like you do Fraud and wouldn't complain about that style.

 

[herakles]

Lol, it's only sour to people like you, who hung their hopes on Pacquiao actually coming to do something different from everyone else Floyd freezes up.

No, it soured everyone's mouth because we all saw how horrible it feels to shell out a hundred bucks only to see a injured fighter get hugged ran from all night long because the referee was in the other fighter's back pocket.

Fans saw corruption's ugly face pop up. Thank GOD Canelo brought back some of that faith that was lost in the hearts of boxing fans! De La Hoya is proving to be a great promoter. Everyone made money last week and 30,000 people paid a fair ticket price unlike that robbery of a fighter the week before.

Probably, but with the Pac/Floyd fight, most likely the same outcome, if not worse. Manny became more cautious after Marquez, and he was still just inches away (a couple times) from running into a straight right from Floyd that would've had him in trouble.

I don't think Floyd has KO power as a JR Middleweight?!

 

[herakles]

Spoken like a true casual fan! The art of the game is hit and not to get hit. Floyd has the sweet science down and whether people want to admit it or not, he's up there with the all time greats and definetly the best of this era. There's a reason people want him to fight GGG, Hopkins and guys way out of his weight class. He has done his job well.

I may be a "casual fan" now but I watched Tuesday NIght Fights on USA from 1987 to 1998! I have NEVER like fighters like Mayweather! I have always preferred the Hearns, the J C Chavez Sr's, the Troy Dorsey's, the Sorry but Floyd is NOT Suger Ray Robinson, Roberto Duran or even Parnell Whitaker!

The reason why people want watch Mayweather's fight is because people want to see him lose for the first time. He is the classic Prowrestling Heel arrogant, stacking the odds in his way by buying the ref. That is how he is selling himself.

The man is boring!

 

[Iron_Stark]

Alvarez/Kirkland most viewed bout since 2006.

The main event drew 2.146 million viewers and peaked at just under 2.3 million. (according to Nielson Ratings)

It became the most watched cable fight of 2015.

"But, but, Floyd was the reason the ratings were so high doe" - Flomos

According to Kevin Iole, The Floyd-Manny replay on HBO did 1.18 million, so Canelo basically doubled it. Strong number for the replay, A++ number for live bout

Translation, people were sour with Mayweather/Pac, of all those people that watched it last week, only 1.18 million tuned in for the replay, when Canelo came on, viewership was doubled.


Sidenote:

Haymon and PBC finna kill HBO and Showtime doe. - typical Flomo Stan

This weekend:

HBO/Canelo - 2.3 million viewers
PBC on CBS - 1.4 million viewers


If your fights suck, if boxing left a bad taste in your mouth, if you got ripped off on PPVs, You...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well this thread sucks again.

 

[BadrHari]

Not sure if this is breaking news - but Mayweather vs. Pacquaio did a 4.4 Million ppv buyrate, destroying the previous record of 2.4 from 2007 (Mayweather vs. De La Hoya).

That is the number one PPV in history....

Boxing dead ??? Bwhahaha....Not even close.

 

[Doc Samson]

I get back to United States 9 months a year, and UFC was popular when Lesnar and GSP were around. Now, the bars are empty during UFC ppvs. I think Ronda is popular bc she's hot and gets some exposure, but the casual sports fan would rather watch a 24/7 documentary rather than a UFC ppv. I spoke to one big fan of fighting and he said the problem is the UFC promotes women and lighter weights and its killing the popularity.

I think UFC will survive also, although they might not enjoy the same fervor they had a few years ago. The main issue is their 3 biggest names being in turmoil. Anderson Silva getting caught, after his public stances, wasn't good but being injured and beat twice is worse. GSP, who knows if or when he'll return and Bones continuing to get into stuff in combination with drugs isn't helping either.

And for all the criticisms with boxing, Silva should've been made to fight both of them, and there was more than enough time before all this happened to make that a reality. They didn't do it and now it'll never happen.

smdh, so I'm the ONLY one that thought the fight sucked? Or the only people that thought the fight sucked were Pac fans?

Yeah basically lol.

No, the fight sucked, the casuals that saw the fight thought it sucked, the media thought the fight sucked, people on social media thought the fight sucked, hard core fans thought the fight sucked, the only people that thought the fight was remotely watchable were FLOMOS.

It was immensely watchable if you're a boxing enthusiast. It was a master class of footwork, ring generalship & craft. Casual fans won't notice exactly why Pacquiao wasn't able to get off like he wanted to, and it had nothing to do with his shoulder or Floyd "running" it was strategy.

I've told you at least 1,000 times over the years that all that bouncing Manny does only telegraphs his setup, he's like Don Flamingo in Punchout. Floyd baited him into setting his feet, then he would move to force Manny to reset. Every time Manny reset, Floyd peppered him with a straight right or jab. All. Night. Long. It was beautiful actually.

No, it soured everyone's mouth because we all saw how horrible it feels to shell out a hundred bucks only to see a injured fighter get hugged ran from all night long because the referee was in the other fighter's back pocket.

Yeah, that sounds exactly like sour grapes. Why the hell would Floyd need anyone in his pocket when the other guy barely did anything? That's really the frustration, Manny fans assumed he could take the fight to Floyd. The first time he really got hit in the 1st round, the fight was over already, he knew he wasn't just walking in there.

Fans saw corruption's ugly face pop up. Thank GOD Canelo brought back some of that faith that was lost in the hearts of boxing fans! De La Hoya is proving to be a great promoter. Everyone made money last week and 30,000 people paid a fair ticket price unlike that robbery of a fighter the week before.

Canelo did almost exactly what Manny did against Floyd, which was nothing. How come he couldn't bring any excitement either? Floyd was right in his face just like he was Manny, and neither of them could do anything about it.

I don't think Floyd has KO power as a JR Middleweight?!

He wouldn't need KO power to KO Pacquiao, Manny doesn't have a chin. Floyd's been hit by bigger shots from Mosley, Maidana (the 2nd fight) Chop Chop, Manny Augustus & Cotto than Manny ever was during his "run" against slow & plodding brawlers who he outworked. Floyd also has been in with guys faster than him, as was the case with Judah, something else Manny never dealt with until last week. And the first time he did get clocked, he clocked out and took a nap.

I may be a "casual fan" now but I watched Tuesday NIght Fights on USA from 1987 to 1998! I have NEVER like fighters like Mayweather! I have always preferred the Hearns, the J C Chavez Sr's, the Troy Dorsey's, the Sorry but Floyd is NOT Suger Ray Robinson, Roberto Duran or even Parnell Whitaker!

The reason why people want watch Mayweather's fight is because people want to see him lose for the first time. He is the classic Prowrestling Heel arrogant, stacking the odds in his way by buying the ref. That is how he is selling himself.

The man is boring!

Pernell was highly defensive too, so I don't get the comparison. But it's not Floyd's job to hit himself. He's a defensive fighter. That's his game. Manny is an aggressive fighter, that's his game, he wasn't able to do it against Floyd because he's not crafty enough. Simple. Cotto was much better at cutting off the ring, containing him on the ropes and landing shots. Cotto is a smarter boxer. Had he approached his fight with Manny that way, the outcome might've been different, but he decided he was going toe to toe. So be it. Floyd isn't going to let his opponent dictate his approach.

It also needs to be said that some of that has to do with his hands. His father had brittle hands, both his uncles had brittle hands and so does he. With all this stuff about Manny's shoulder, people overlook how much Roach wanted to inspect the gauze on Floyd because he knows they usually wrap it bigger to protect them from breaking. He's had hand problems pretty much since he's been a professional. He hasn't complained, he just adapted.

The younger Floyd was throwing with bad intentions and still defensively sharp. Threw more combinations, engaged boxers more readily. But that was years ago. At age 38, with bad hands, he's changed and found ways to win. It's called being a smart boxer.

 

[Iron_Stark]

It was immensely watchable if you're a boxing enthusiast. It was a master class of footwork, ring generalship & craft. Casual fans won't notice exactly why Pacquiao wasn't able to get off like he wanted to, and it had nothing to do with his shoulder or Floyd "running" it was strategy.

It was immensely watchable for Flomos only.

I'll tell you two Flomos again, the majority of people thought it was boring. Majority of media thought it was boring and a let down, majority of people on social media thought it was boring, majority of hard core fans thought it was boring.

The fight sucked, why do you think Showtime had 370K viewers tune in to the replay? Why did everyone tune in to HBO's replay? To see the "fight of the century" replay or to see an all action fight that followed it?

Why didn't everyone just tune in to Showtime's replay and forget about the Canelo fight?

Run, hug, popshots are now considered master class footwork, ring general ship and craft these days? LOL

 

[Doc Samson]

Run, hug, popshots are now considered master class footwork, ring general ship and craft these days? LOL

No, I told you exactly what he was doing to "Pac-Man" and I told you exactly how that fight would go for years. It's not my fault that's what happened, and it's not Floyd's fault Manny didn't come to fight.

 

[Iron_Stark]

No, I told you exactly what he was doing to "Pac-Man" and I told you exactly how that fight would go for years. It's not my fault that's what happened, and it's not Floyd's fault Manny didn't come to fight.

What's your argument here? I too have said Mayweather was going to run and popshot his way to a boring win. And low and behold that's what he did. I never thought he'd hug as much as he did but whatever.

So what's your argument? That the fight went exactly like you, me, and most people predicted?

Or that it was some exciting piece of drama, the likes of Hagler/Hearns, Ali/Frasier, Gatti/Ward, Barrera/Morales? Or even as exciting as Canelo/Kirkland?

Nah, that fight is only going down as the richest in history, that's all people will remember, the money, not the excitement, not the drama, not the suspense, and will never be mentioned alongside the likes of the ones I just wrote down and others. Only the money and Mayweather orchestrated that perfectly.