The Official Boxing Thread!!!

[FCEEVIPER]

I'm just saying, if you are a challenger and you are fighting a household name boxer, you have to be more agressive. Counter punching aint enough. It's not right, but it's the reality of these kinds of fights.

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with that way of thinking/knowledge.

I just feel if a boxer out-boxes another boxer that fighter wins that night, and it shouldn't matter who is more famous. Well in a fair world, but with Arum around that will never happen.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

With all due respect fceeviper, there's no reason you should have to go that in depth with it...

Sorry, I just been a tad angry with last Saturday night, Arum, the state of boxing judging, Nevada Boxing Comiss, HBO's bias crew, Pas fans who don't understand boxing (Not directed at anyone here) etc..

It's just been a bad few days for me as a die hard fan of Boxing.

 

[antonydelfini]

With all due respect fceeviper, there's no reason you should have to go that in depth with it. To ANYBODY who clearly can't see that JMM won that fight, there's really nothing to discuss.

I felt like maybe he should've been a bit busier like De la Hoya against Trinidad, but after my 2nd viewing, I completely retract that statement, he outclassed him just as he did the first two times, actually moreso this bout because he didn't have any holes he needed to dig himself out of from being knocked down.

Although I agree that JMM should have won, I won't dismiss those that say Pac won. In a close fight, judges will almost always give the fighter who’s pressing and more aggressive the edge. The punch stats also showed that Pac threw and landed more punches even power punches.

But still, in my eyes, JMM should have won because the hardest punches that landed came from JMM. But to those who saw a Pac victory, I wouldn't say they're blind or dumb. They have the stats to back their claim.

 

[antonydelfini]

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with that way of thinking/knowledge.

I just feel if a boxer out-boxes another boxer that fighter wins that night, and it shouldn't matter who is more famous. Well in a fair world, but with Arum around that will never happen.

Well we don't live in a perfect world. There's politics and influence in boxing. It's a thing that doesn't shock me anymore. There have been bigger robberies in boxing before. The bigger name almost always gets the nod in these close fights. If Marquez and Pacman had the same stature and celebrity status, JMM would have won IMO.

 

[L.A.]

Updated: November 16, 2011, 11:47 AM ET
Top three pound-for-pound fighters
EmailPrintComments
1993
By Dan Rafael
ESPN.com
Archive
Who is the world's best fighter regardless of weight class? See my Top 20 below.


And don't forget to check out the divisional rankings, which are updated weekly.

For a list of the current champions in all weight classes, click here.

Note: Results are through Nov. 15.


1. FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR.
Welterweight titlist
Record: 42-0, 26 KOs
Age: 34

Mayweather

Hits: Even after 16 months out of the ring following his near shutout of Shane Mosley in May 2010, Mayweather returned to action on Sept. 17 and showed not the slightest bit of rust. Still fast and possessing great defense and underrated power, Mayweather knocked out Victor Ortiz (albeit in controversial fashion) in the fourth round to reclaim one of the titles he had previously given up. Now, instead of disappearing on another long layoff, Mayweather has announced plans to return on May 5, ideally against Manny Pacquiao -- if Pacquiao's people will come to the bargaining table.

Misses: It's great that Mayweather seems to be showing real interest in finally facing Pacquiao, but since Pacquiao just fought, how about giving him a little bit of time to unwind before insisting on a negotiation right now? Where was that kind of urgency at any point in the past few years?

2. MANNY PACQUIAO
Welterweight titlist
Record: 54-3-2, 38 KOs
Age: 32

Pacquiao

Hits: Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez, who had already produced two memorable battles in featherweight and junior lightweight title bouts, met for the third time Nov. 12 and gave fight fans a worthy trilogy with another outstanding and highly competitive fight. With Pacquiao's victory, the path is wide open for him to at long last meet Mayweather in the fight the world wants to see.

Misses: Pacquiao, who was a massive favorite to beat Marquez because they were fighting at welterweight, looked as vulnerable as he has in a long time. Although he eked out a majority decision, few would have quarreled had Marquez gotten the win or had the fight been ruled a draw. Pacquiao looked confused at times and lacked snap on his punches in a less-than-stellar outing. It just wasn't the kind of performance we have come to expect from Pacquiao, especially in light of the fact that Marquez had been wiped out by Mayweather in 2009 in his only other welterweight fight. Although a fourth fight with Marquez is certainly warranted at some point, it absolutely should not be next, which is what Top Rank's Bob Arum, Pacquiao's promoter, is talking about pursuing. Mayweather should be next, and it's going to have to be up to Pacquiao to stand up to Arum and tell him to make a deal. Period.

3. SERGIO MARTINEZ
Middleweight champion
Record: 48-2-2, 27 KOs
Age: 36

Martinez

Hits: If there is a silver lining to the apparent implosion of Pacquiao-Mayweather negotiations before they have even begun, it is that Martinez, the 2010 fighter of the year, might be an attractive opponent for Mayweather, who plans to fight May 5. Martinez has said repeatedly he would drop down in weight for the opportunity to face Mayweather or Pacquiao. If Pacquiao is going to fight Marquez for a fourth time, Mayweather could make a big statement by taking on Martinez near 150 pounds.

Misses: When Martinez defended the middleweight championship against massive underdog Darren Barker on Oct. 1, he had a significant struggle before stopping him in the 11th round. It was far from Martinez's best night.

 

[Assassin32]

Sergio Martinez is by far my favorite boxer right now.

 

[Doc Samson]

Sorry, I just been a tad angry with last Saturday night, Arum, the state of boxing judging, Nevada Boxing Comiss, HBO's bias crew, Pas fans who don't understand boxing (Not directed at anyone here) etc..

It's just been a bad few days for me as a die hard fan of Boxing.

Oh no, I didn't mean it harshly, I agree with you 100%, it just seemed like you were getting more and more agitated in your responses, which I'm prone to do at times as well, especially when talking Pacquiao/Mayweather. I just think this last JMM fight with Pac should be self explanatory

Although I agree that JMM should have won, I won't dismiss those that say Pac won. In a close fight, judges will almost always give the fighter who’s pressing and more aggressive the edge. The punch stats also showed that Pac threw and landed more punches even power punches.

But still, in my eyes, JMM should have won because the hardest punches that landed came from JMM. But to those who saw a Pac victory, I wouldn't say they're blind or dumb. They have the stats to back their claim.

There's different types of aggression though. The kind of stuff Pac was doing was really just trying to steal rounds with late flurries for the most part, or just missing period, he wasn't controlling the action at all, the fact that JMM was using counter-punching as a tactic shouldn't be looked upon as anything other than that: a tactical decision.

 

[B]

Agreed B! It's not the fact that Paq won, because it was actually so close it could have gone either way(though I think JMM was robbed but that's another issue)...........my thing is how can one judge have it so in favor of Paq. What fight was he watching. It was not that wide in favor of Paq! And Paq threw more punches but a lot of them did not last or they were paper thin. Marquez's punches had zing to them which is why a lot of people(myself included)think it should have been a JMM win or at worse, a draw.

Bingo.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Updated: November 16, 2011, 11:47 AM ET
Top three pound-for-pound fighters
EmailPrintComments
1993
By Dan Rafael
ESPN.com
Archive
Who is the world's best fighter regardless of weight class? See my Top 20 below.


And don't forget to check out the divisional rankings, which are updated weekly.

For a list of the current champions in all weight classes, click here.

Note: Results are through Nov. 15.


1. FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR.
Welterweight titlist
Record: 42-0, 26 KOs
Age: 34

Mayweather

Hits: Even after 16 months out of the ring following his near shutout of Shane Mosley in May 2010, Mayweather returned to action on Sept. 17 and showed not the slightest bit of rust. Still fast and possessing great defense and underrated power, Mayweather knocked out Victor Ortiz (albeit in controversial fashion) in the fourth round to reclaim one of the titles he had previously given up. Now, instead of disappearing on another long layoff, Mayweather has announced plans to return on May 5, ideally against Manny Pacquiao -- if Pacquiao's people will come to the bargaining table.

Misses: It's great that Mayweather seems to be showing real interest in finally facing Pacquiao, but since Pacquiao just fought, how about giving him a little bit of time to unwind before insisting on a negotiation right now? Where was that kind of urgency at any point in the past few years?

2. MANNY PACQUIAO
Welterweight titlist
Record: 54-3-2, 38 KOs
Age: 32

Pacquiao

Hits: Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez, who had already produced two memorable battles in featherweight and junior lightweight title bouts, met for the third time Nov. 12 and gave fight fans a worthy trilogy with another outstanding and highly competitive fight. With Pacquiao's victory, the path is wide open for him to at long last meet Mayweather in the fight the world wants to see.

Misses: Pacquiao, who was a massive favorite to beat Marquez because they were fighting at welterweight, looked as vulnerable as he has in a long time. Although he eked out a majority decision, few would have quarreled had Marquez gotten the win or had the fight been ruled a draw. Pacquiao looked confused at times and lacked snap on his punches in a less-than-stellar outing. It just wasn't the kind of performance we have come to expect from Pacquiao, especially in light of the fact that Marquez had been wiped out by Mayweather in 2009 in his only other welterweight fight. Although a fourth fight with Marquez is certainly warranted at some point, it absolutely should not be next, which is what Top Rank's Bob Arum, Pacquiao's promoter, is talking about pursuing. Mayweather should be next, and it's going to have to be up to Pacquiao to stand up to Arum and tell him to make a deal. Period.

3. SERGIO MARTINEZ
Middleweight champion
Record: 48-2-2, 27 KOs
Age: 36

Martinez

Hits: If there is a silver lining to the apparent implosion of Pacquiao-Mayweather negotiations before they have even begun, it is that Martinez, the 2010 fighter of the year, might be an attractive opponent for Mayweather, who plans to fight May 5. Martinez has said repeatedly he would drop down in weight for the opportunity to face Mayweather or Pacquiao. If Pacquiao is going to fight Marquez for a fourth time, Mayweather could make a big statement by taking on Martinez near 150 pounds.

Misses: When Martinez defended the middleweight championship against massive underdog Darren Barker on Oct. 1, he had a significant struggle before stopping him in the 11th round. It was far from Martinez's best night.

Mayweather would jump in front of a bullet train before stepping into the same building as Martinez.

You will never hear his name come out of Mayweather's mouth.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

So true. It'll be interesting to see Chavez Jr take Martinez on though. That should make for such an interesting fight.

Saul Alvarez is lurking in the shadows as well.

 

[Iron_Stark]

No way does the Bobfather cash out Jr this soon. He'd make a fight with Canelo before Martinez.

And a Jr/Canelo fight would be the biggest fight in the sport behind Paquiao/Mayweather. Especially if Canelo looks impressive next week against Cintron.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Yep, two undefeated young prospects (with over 70 wins combined) going at it would awesome to watch.

Guaranteed they'll have an epic trilogy of their own as well.

Who would you take?

 

[Iron_Stark]

A few months ago I would've picked Canelo easily. But after Canelo's flat showing against Gomez, and what Roach has been doing with Jr, idk? Jr did look real good against Manfredo yesterday. I want to see what Canelo does against an experienced fighter like Cintron next week.

Who would you take?

edit, this fight would be a huge, HUGE ratings getter in the southwest, down through Mexico. I'm sure they're going to build these two up before an epic showdown somewhere down the line. Infact, I'd like to see this more than a May/Paq fight.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I would choose Jr, but he hasn't really impressed me as Alvarez has but his performance against Gomez wasn't stellar. However, I can't discredit Alfonso, he's a solid talent (even though he came from the Contender show).

I don't know, at this point. Guess I'll choose Jr.

Agreed, this fight would be huge in the Southwest if they hyped it correctly.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Good win by Canelo last night. He looked sharper than he did vs Gomez.

**** Mayweather/Pacquiao, bring on Canelo vs Chavez Jr.

 

[Docker2.0]

Wasn't really that impressed with Canelo. JCC Jr. would beat this guy and dare I say easily. But neither of these guys would stand a chance against Sergio. Heck I don't even think Paq or Mayweather would.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Wasn't really that impressed with Canelo. JCC Jr. would beat this guy and dare I say easily. But neither of these guys would stand a chance against Sergio. Heck I don't even think Paq or Mayweather would.

At this stage, JCC Jr would probably lose a decision to Sergio, but two years from now... that's a different story. Jr is incredibly talented but he needed direction, and Roach giving it to him.

However, if Jr dispatches of Cotto or Margarito with ease too... I don't know.

Yeah, Jr vs Alarvez!

 

[Docker2.0]

Hate to change the subject DD, but I want to talk about Sergio for a second. Does he come off like a bully or what? He's been calling out Mayweather and Paq, stating he'd come down in weight but Bernard Hopkins has been calling him out and he's only 5 lbs off of Sergio's natural weight but yet he's been dodging this guy. Just saying.

 

[Project862006]

Alvarez will smoke alot of these guys this kid is just that good

39-0 and only 21

 

[Docker2.0]

Alvarez will smoke alot of these guys this kid is just that good

39-0 and only 21

Not so sure. He's nowhere near the level of a Paq or PBF or even Sergio. Again, the dude is way to green to even call out Mayweather because he'd get embarassed. He needs to fight in his own weight class first then 3 years from now if those guys are still fighting, call them out then. I honestly can't see this guy beating James Kirkland.

 

[Project862006]

if ishida could finish Kirkland within 1 round

alvarez should have no problem

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Hate to change the subject DD, but I want to talk about Sergio for a second. Does he come off like a bully or what? He's been calling out Mayweather and Paq, stating he'd come down in weight but Bernard Hopkins has been calling him out and he's only 5 lbs off of Sergio's natural weight but yet he's been dodging this guy. Just saying.

No, I touched upon that about a couple of months ago.

Sergio is picking on the smaller fighters (which in Boxing isn't that bad of an act specifically considering Pacquiao and Mayweather are the bigger names) but he refuses to acknowledge Hopkins.

Yeah, he's full of it (most Argentinians are after all... ) Sorry, I can't stand their National Soccer Team. It had to be said.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Hopkins made a career out of calling out and fighting smaller guys (Trinidad & Delahoya), no reason to call Sergio out on it or insinuate that he's a bully for not fighting Hopkins.

Canelo is out of his mind if he thinks he's ready for Mayweather. It'd be Trinidad/Vargas all over again. He needs to keep building himself up for the next 2-3 years.

But he was very impressive yesterday, he did what Martinez couldn't do and that's beat(officially) and KO Cintron.

While I don't think he's ready for Mayweather or Martinez just yet, I give him a chance against JCCJR and Kirkland.

I could see him KOing Kirkland actually, Ishida did it in one round and Angulo had him on queer street in the first round before gassing himself out. Canelo is very patient and would take his time on finishing Kirkland and not wasting his punches like Angulo did.

 

[Docker2.0]

That was kirkland without his trainer, the only time in his career. I'm sure angola thought the same thing.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Angulo still put him on his ass and almost had him out, with Anne Wolf in Kirkland's corner. Any other fighter would've finished Kirkland.

A weak chin is a weak chin, regardless of who the trainer is.

Still, of the recent 154-160 lbs fighters that have been showcased on HBO (Canelo, JCCJR, Kirkland), Canelo looked the most impressive, with Kirkland looking the least.