The Official ''Fantastic Beasts 2: The Crimes of Grindelwald” Thread

[TheVileOne]

Hold the phone, dude! Nowhere does it say that! Nope, not true. @Marvolo , I advise you not to listen to that statement, as

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it is not said that Credence is Albus' brother. I've got the screenplay sitting less than a foot away from me right now.

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Script and movie are two different things. They say Albus is his brother in the film at the end.

 

[THORin]

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Script and movie are two different things. They say Albus is his brother in the film at the end.

I'm gonna have to go see the movie again now and see if that's true. But I know people who have seen the movie now two or three times, and they haven't said that.

 

[pixen]

I'm gonna have to go see the movie again now and see if that's true. But I know people who have seen the movie now two or three times, and they haven't said that.

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I can’t remember if it was said directly but it was more than hinted at. (Though I feel like it was said...) The whole Dumbeldore family has this thing with the Phoenix and to have it appear for Ezra Miller’s character only confirms it more. But the movie was a mess...

 

[THORin]

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I can’t remember if it was said directly but it was more than hinted at. (Though I feel like it was said...) The whole Dumbeldore family has this thing with the Phoenix and to have it appear for Ezra Miller’s character only confirms it more. But the movie was a mess...

See, I don't think it was said, and there's a lot of confusion about

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the Phoenix. Now if he is the son of Albus, then the Phoenix coming to him would still make sense.

 

[pixen]

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isnt it a Dumbledore family thing... the whole Phoenix thing?

It’s just another example of why these movies should not be done. So many plot holes/mistakes that make continuity a complete mess. This, McGonagall teaching way before she should be, tossing out names to make people think the character is important only to be a fakeout, making Dumbledore gay but then handling everything about it rather poorly. Mess.

 

[THORin]

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isnt it a Dumbledore family thing... the whole Phoenix thing?

It’s just another example of why these movies should not be done. So many plot holes/mistakes that make continuity a complete mess. This, McGonagall teaching way before she should be, tossing out names to make people think the character is important only to be a fakeout, making Dumbledore gay but then handling everything about it rather poorly. Mess.

Yes, it is

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a trait the whole Dumbledore family shares, but I'd prefer for this theory that Credence is Albus' son to be correct. I don't think the movies should not have been done. And Dumbledore is gay, and Jo specifically said that it will be shown more overtly in the next few movies.

 

[pixen]

Yes, it is

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a trait the whole Dumbledore family shares, but I'd prefer for this theory that Credence is Albus' son to be correct. I don't think the movies should not have been done. And Dumbledore is gay, and Jo specifically said that it will be shown more overtly in the next few movies.

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But... if Credence is Albus’ son... how old is Dumbledore? He doesn’t seem old enough to have a son that old...

As for the gay thing, I know that’s what she says but it’s kind of shotty the way she tries to make it work. He has a thing with this evil guy. Doubt we’ll see anything good happen with Dumbledore and another guy. Even if there’s some interaction with his evil ex, it’ll be just some words sharedand they’ll be referred to as something subtle/stupid. I really hope this movie would help round things out a little more.

 

[THORin]

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But... if Credence is Albus’ son... how old is Dumbledore? He doesn’t seem old enough to have a son that old...

As for the gay thing, I know that’s what she says but it’s kind of shotty the way she tries to make it work. He has a thing with this evil guy. Doubt we’ll see anything good happen with Dumbledore and another guy. Even if there’s some interaction with his evil ex, it’ll be just some words sharedand they’ll be referred to as something subtle/stupid. I really hope this movie would help round things out a little more.

Trust me, I also wanted

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more of Grindeldore in this movie. I knew it wouldn't happen, because if it was in there Russia would never have allowed this movie to play, or China. I wish that more American audiences had come out to see this film specifically for that reason - what if WB now decides not to anger overseas markets with a gay relationship, and deems that more important than American outrage? I do think we'll get some flashbacks to their youth when we inevitably discover something of Gellert's backstory, so hopefully there's at least a kiss.
Though, if the theory that Albus and Gellert are the fathers of Credence is true, then maybe we could see even more. Credence was supposed to be 18 in the first FB movie, which is only a few months before FB2. And Albus I think is supposed to be in his late forties or early fifties.

 

[Schlosser85]

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But... if Credence is Albus’ son... how old is Dumbledore? He doesn’t seem old enough to have a son that old...

As for the gay thing, I know that’s what she says but it’s kind of shotty the way she tries to make it work. He has a thing with this evil guy. Doubt we’ll see anything good happen with Dumbledore and another guy. Even if there’s some interaction with his evil ex, it’ll be just some words sharedand they’ll be referred to as something subtle/stupid. I really hope this movie would help round things out a little more.

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Ezra Miller is 26 and Jude Law is 45. So he could have conceived him when he was 18 or 19.

 

[THORin]

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Ezra Miller is 26 and Jude Law is 45. So he could have conceived him when he was 18 or 19.

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Yep, that's probably about right, I think.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm gonna have to go see the movie again now and see if that's true. But I know people who have seen the movie now two or three times, and they haven't said that.

He says:

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"Your brother seeks to destroy you".

 

[THORin]

He says:

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"Your brother seeks to destroy you".

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Yeah, that's what I thought. He says "brother" which in itself is a vague term; remember that Grindelwald and Dumbledore technically become blood-brothers after making their pact. But Grindelwald never says Albus. And also when has Albus tried to destroy Credence - I mean, yeah, that could be a lie, but then why isn't Grindelwald lying about everything else?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

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Yeah, that's what I thought. He says "brother" which in itself is a vague term; remember that Grindelwald and Dumbledore technically become blood-brothers after making their pact. But Grindelwald never says Albus. And also when has Albus tried to destroy Credence - I mean, yeah, that could be a lie, but then why isn't Grindelwald lying about everything else?

Dude...

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Grindelwald makes his plan known early. He wants Credence to kill Dumbledore. He is trying to hype to kill Dumbledore, and calls Dumbledore his brother. He says this while revealing Credence himself is a Dumbledore. If they aren't brothers, it is dumb.

 

[THORin]

Dude...

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Grindelwald makes his plan known early. He wants Credence to kill Dumbledore. He is trying to hype to kill Dumbledore, and calls Dumbledore his brother. He says this while revealing Credence himself is a Dumbledore. If they aren't brothers, it is dumb.

I just don't agree,

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I think there's a reason that Jo didn't have Grindelwald say Albus' name. She knows what she's doing, despite what people think. When she leaves a clue, she leaves a clue. Credence is not (I think) Albus' actual brother, and Jo never said that he is, because Grindelwald never said the name Albus, so it's not dumb - it's everybody jumping to what seems like the most logical conclusion and then blaming Jo for messing with timeline and continuity when that logical conclusion turns out to not be quite as logical as they thought.

 

[TheScarecrow]

I just don't agree,

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I think there's a reason that Jo didn't have Grindelwald say Albus' name. She knows what she's doing, despite what people think. When she leaves a clue, she leaves a clue. Credence is not (I think) Albus' actual brother, and Jo never said that he is, because Grindelwald never said the name Albus, so it's not dumb - it's everybody jumping to what seems like the most logical conclusion and then blaming Jo for messing with timeline and continuity when that logical conclusion turns out to not be quite as logical as they thought.

Mate if she doesn't follow through with this, she may as well cancel the series. You can't have a whole movie exist to deliver this twist and then take it back later. If her intention was to have Grindelwald be lying, she needs to backtrack on that ASAP or she'll officially have jumped the shark. I'll lose all respect for her as a writer for such a shameless, cheap gimmick.

I saw the movie again this weekend and liked it better now it didn't generate anger in me. However, if we needed anymore proof that this movie lost the franchise's "rusted on" support, you need only look at the box office receipts this weekend. An over 50% second weekend drop on a holiday weekend. Placing fourth on its second weekend, including behind The Grinch in its third weekend. The Grinch was the only movie that faced direct competition this weekend, against Wreck it Ralph.

This movie has been a disaster for WB. Not a complete flop, but a disaster. There's simply no way that the worldwide gross for this movie will not have a "6" in front of it now. Devastating for WB and more than ever likely to result in a complete retooling of this series.

Also...

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No matter what, JK messed with her own timeline for this movie. McGonagall was teaching as an adult 20-odd years before she was supposed to have been born. Also, Albus Dumbledore was a transfiguration teacher (as he taught before McGonagall was at the school) but in this he's a DADA teacher, because McGonagall is present. Also when someone is obliviated, it doesn't just get rid of unhappy memories. Also when Snap made the unbreakable vow it didn't leave scars on him. Also you can't apparate on Hogwarts grounds (willing to accept that maybe this was instituted by Dumbledore), the Mirror of Erised shows what you most desire, not a series of flashbacks, Tina should be master of the Elder Wand (having disarmed Grindelwald in the first one, and countless other issues which shows how sloppy JK has gotten.

 

[THORin]

Mate if she doesn't follow through with this, she may as well cancel the series. You can't have a whole movie exist to deliver this twist and then take it back later. If her intention was to have Grindelwald be lying, she needs to backtrack on that ASAP or she'll officially have jumped the shark. I'll lose all respect for her as a writer for such a shameless, cheap gimmick.

I just don't see how something that was never said in the movie could be a "twist", since it didn't actually happen. I do believe that

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Credence is a Dumbledore but I don't think he's Albus' brother.

However, you're very lucky you got to see it again, and I'm glad you felt less angry at it this time around. I'm sick, or I would be seated in a theater right now watching it again.

 

[TheScarecrow]

THORin, I'm interested to know.

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If Credence isn't Dumbledore's brother, what do you view the plot and point of this movie as being?

 

[THORin]

THORin, I'm interested to know.

If Credence isn't Dumbledore's brother, what do you view the plot and point of this movie as being?

Not sure, but I think you should have a spoiler tag on that.

I believe the point is that Credence

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is a Dumbledore. I don't believe he's Albus' brother. I think that this movie honestly is "filler", I think I agree with most of you here on that. But I thought it was good filler. As for the plot, it also introduces Theseus, Nagini and Kama, all of whom might be important characters, as well as Leta, if she's coming back. Queenie and Credence both join Grindelwald. I feel certain that there was supposed to be a reveal that Queenie is pregnant with Jacob's child, but that got deleted from the final film to protect other secrets. It might have revealed the early Order of the Phoenix, who may very well be significant further on. Newt and Dumbledore now possess the Blood-Pact. A lot happened.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I just watched the first Fantastic Beasts in prep for seeing this one sometime this week. Maybe it's just me, but it was an utter slog to get through... boring plot, characters I didn't much care for and a serious lack of action/excitement.

It was charming in places and had a nice score by Newton Howard, but that was pretty much it.

Think it's time for David Yates to go. He's been holding the franchise back for far too long.

 

[Schlosser85]

Honestly, Rowling herself was a bigger thing holding it back than Yates.

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

Honestly, Rowling herself was a bigger thing holding it back than Yates.

How so ? Rowling understands the character better than anyone else. She created them.

She shouldn't continue writing the script but I'd rather keep her writing the story.

 

[Boy Scout]

Maybe, but I do think one of the selling points of this new series is that Rowling herself was writing it. That makes these things unambiguously canon. It might be smarter to just give her a co-writer.

 

[Schlosser85]

How so ? Rowling understands the character better than anyone else. She created them.

She shouldn't continue writing the script but I'd rather keep her writing the story.

Because she’s not a good solo screenwriter.

 

[THORin]

Because she’s not a good solo screenwriter.

I have a much bigger problem with Yates than I do with Rowling. I think Rowling maybe should have a co-writer, someone who can point out the little problems that should not have made it into the final film (like, Accio Niffler, etc.) I just don't like David Yates very much, and I feel like he's the one holding back the Grindelwald-Dumbledore relationship - in March or sometime around then he was the one who said it wouldn't be shown explicitly in the movie, and then Jo had to go to Twitter to say "Don't believe every piece of Potter clickbait you read." It made me wonder if they had argued about the subject.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well Yates has directed a few good movies before. Rowling hasn't written a good movie yet, so....