OK then here we go....Round 2....DING!!! LMAO
Think more carefully about those confrontations. Superman took down Mandrakk with the aid of, was it 50 other Supermen? (Including Majestros, a not-crazy version, so cool to see my boy back in a fight that matters!) He took down Darkseid with the life equation, which is basically a Darkseid-killing weapon. It's not like he just punched them out.
Ok but here's something to ponder for you...Superman does'nt get a lot of screen time with the exception of FC 7 yet if my assumptions are correct...he defeats Mandrakk and saves limbo word, saves Lois then gets whisked off to the future to save that with the help of the Lo3W and then comes back to save all of reality...wouldnt you consider that an awful lot to do for one charecter in a major event in which only the last takes place in the actual book?
There is a very specific reason that Batman survives the Omega Sanction. The most important reason is that [blackout]it isn't actually lethal. It sends you into a neverending cycle of painful lives, deaths, and rebirths. But Batman seems to have escaped, much as Mister Miracle is, which is a symbolic event championing the triumph of the human spirit. Also, as Brian pointed out, Batman's body was shot into a void filled with the lifeblood of stories, and that's where he was when Superman used the Miracle Machine to wish for a happy ending for everyone. This is why doing research, and asking around, when reading comics is a good idea. It doesn't make you less cool, and it doesn't make the story "confusing" if you have to do a little reference work. T.S. Eliot never had to put up with this ********.[/blackout]
I know the Omega Sanction isnt lethal...maybe I explained what I was trying to say wrong...and I will comment on the triumph of the human spirit in the end as I have something for you to think about below.
My problem with Batman's body being blown of in a rocket is I dont recall seeing that anywhere...I think that's an assumption...from what they directly show [blackout]thats not his corpse but more in tune a biography of sorts being sent into space "message in a bottle is what i believe its referred to as...you never see him in it...and even if you did, Batman's body is shown as a charred skeleton and not an actual human corpse so that would infer it was reanimated in some shape or form...[/blackout]again all open to interpretation...
I have no problem whatsoever asking questions when I don't understand something...again I'm offering opinions as to what about it I didnt like...I didnt hate the story and I liked what he was going for...my problem was the execution of it...
What was confusing? This is a question that nobody has ever answered. What did you need to know for those last two issues that you didn't know from the story? Mandrakk is very suggested throughout the story, and Morrison even hits us over the head with it one more time, in case we're dense, by having Darkseid echo the words of Orion from the very first issue, "in us...in all of us..."
What was confusing? really? ok ya wanna know well...to me a good story should be self contained...the main beats should all be addressed with clarity in the confines of the book labled Final Crisis. I should'nt have to read anything but those 7 issues to know whats happening and why...big plot points were addressed outside the main title that if you didnt read you would get lost. why do i say this well look at issue 6...it opens up with Brainiac 5 and Superman near the miricle machine...now if you didnt read anything else but FC then it would make no sense that he leaves with a monitor in issue 3 to save Lois only to pop up in issue 6 with Brainiac...to know why that is, you need to read Superman Beyond and Lo3W...all the Supermen...that was a gathering again that took place in SB and yet w/o that story you have no idea why they are there in issue 7...Superman is not in anyway invovled in the main plot for like 4 issues then bam multiples everywhere...then there is Mandrakk himself...he is never mentioned by name or given background anywhere in the main storyline...if you read ONLY FC you think the big bad is Darkseid...you need SB to understand who he is and why he is even there...SB became required reading to understand crucial elements of the main story...
[quotee=Aristotle;16368696]That didn't happen. He built the machine in issue 7. It didn't just materialize. I'm starting to wonder if you even
read Final Crisis.[/quote]
Yes I did read it...I meant that you see it for the 1st time in issue 6 with Brainiac 5 and then like everyone in the world knew that was gonna be pivitol to the ending
A brief list of other people who have been accused of that: Pablo Picasso, Jackson Pollock, T.S. Eliot, Piet Mondrian, Ernest Hemingway, Alan Moore, Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Salvador Dali, M.C. Escher, Barack Obama, Arthur Miller, Sergio Leone, Quentin Tarantino...I could go on. The list of great artists that have been accused of "pretentiousness" reads like a list of great artists who will always have a place in the history of art. The list of artists who have been lauded as "accessible"? That reads more like a who's-who of sellouts: Thomas Kinkade, John Grisham, Stephen King, Ringo Starr, Robert Jordan, Brian Michael Bendis, Lorne Michaels, Mitchell Towle...not impressive company to be in.
lol Ironically enough, most of the 1st set of people you mentioned I actually like a great deal of their work and almost all the one's in the 2nd set I actually dislike very much lol....
This is like saying you liked what Mondrian was trying to say, you just didn't like that it was all rectangles, and you'd prefer it to have been something more like Salvador Dali. You're judging a piece that is one style of art, based on the standards of a completely different style.
No thats false...you can look at a piece of art or fiction and like what was trying to be acheived...like the concept of whats being done and just dislike the way its presented...I can like a square cuz its square but maybe i like big squares instead of little ones...its the same idea, same concept I just prefer it done differently while in the confines of the same scope.
You didn't read it. You couldn't have. Because if you had, you would have seen how he sang Darkseid into submission, using the Life Equation, which would only work on Darkseid. And you would have seen how he needed 50 other Supermen to take down Mandrakk.
yes I did read and I read it again before I responded...i cede you as correct...he didnt punch him out...[blackout]he sang him a cosmic lulliby...gotta love those pipes Supes lol...and to be quite honest reading that scene again its actually not the Supermen that take him out its actually the Green Lanters with the big spike through the heart...its much more laughable the second time around lol...[/blackout]
If you wouldn't mind, I'd like you to read Final Crisis one more time, but imagine it being out of continuity, non-canon. Pretend that it was Countdown that rearranged the multiverse, that Batman died in Batman RIP, that Hawkman and Hawkgirl died in Rann/Thanagar Holy War, so on and so forth, pretend that everything that affecte the status quo in Final Crisis was done in a different series, and this is just like "What If? Final Crisis." Then read it, and I'd be very interested to see what you think.
another major problem I kind of have with this story is the lack of effect it had on the DCU in general...wouldnt a mention here or there that hey look the motherload of evil taking over all existance make it somewhere in another title anywhere...i mean are all these things happening in the main books before or after FC and if its before are they ever going to mention it in the future...
the only character it really changed was Batman...not one book in the whole DCU touched on it at all except the Batbooks and I have a really dumb question on that...I read somewhere that RIP and Last Rites were supposed to take Batman where he needed to be in FC but was confuses me is at the end of RIP [blackout]Bruce has disappeared and then Last Rites he's already been captured[/blackout] ok so I will go with some of that but then where does his appearences in the beginning of the event take place...[blackout]does he vanish at the end of RIP show back up unexplained in the beginning of FC just to vanish again at the end of that...[/blackout] kinda redundant isnt it...kinda looks like a big editorial mistake...
as far as your what if comment...well I in turn have a question for you...switch Batman and Superman's role in this series and tell me how much better the human spirit angle would've played if they used a merged Batman (the human spirit/the reader) vs Mandrakk (lazy comic writers and 3 years of recycled silver age nonsense) and tell me how much better it would've played out...it could've been used as a reader revolt over the unraveling of what was the golden age of DC (pre IC) to now and it couldve righted everything again...metatexually as well as literally...
I have other issues with this series but again there were things I loved and things I hated...I read it again and came back with some of my gripes with this series...I mean i think I have some valid points...maybe my critique is so harsh because I feel it had so much potential, started out so great and then around issues 6-7 just nosedived...it just didnt live up to any of the hype as well as the fact that all the buildup titles to it were so horrible...
