Imo the magnitude of these reactions is grossly exaggerated. There was some confusion on social media, but it wasn't any type of major uproar. Some people were confused but it wasn't a shock of huge proportions like "Why the hell did Superman snap his neck?". Here's a comparison, if you follow the Flash/Arrow shows, they will have Hawkgirl in the new season and it's going to be the Kendra Saunders version, not Shiera Hall that was on JLU. Some people who don't read comics got confused and wondered why is she a brown-haired Latina instead of a redheaded white chick. It's pretty much the same thing here. Some people got confused after the GL trailer hit but it wasn't nearly as vast as you make it seem.
It was vast enough. It seemed more like a mixture of confusion & disappointment. A number of people were instantly turned off. It was the start of a bad buzz for the debut movie of an obscure character that couldn't afford it. The movie needed all the help it could get.
This different Hawkgirl won't generate even a small fraction of the controversy that "making GL white" did tho. We know this. I hadn't even heard of this Hawkgirl stuff until you mentioned it. I hope they do a good job.
I never bought that they were actually going to kill John. And if they were, how long would it have been until they brought him back? Three issues? Marvel killed Johnny Storm and brought him back less than 2 months later. Josh Fialkov never elaborated on what the actual long-term plan for John was supposed to be, he said that he heard John was supposedly going to be killed initially and then said that he left due to creative differences without knowing what exactly was going to happen in the long run. This was right after the new creative teams were coming on board at the time and they all said that John was going to be a major part of the books going forward, so even if DC did plan to off him, I doubt it was going to be a long-term death at all.
And like I said, John consistently had the Corps with him in the old stories, so I'm not sure what DC thought about him at the time, but it's a fact that every time they feel like something doesn't work on GL, eventually they always go back to Hal Jordan. I've heard some people over the years accuse DC of being racist towards John, or as you say that they deliberately wanted to sabotage him, and I don't see the point in that considering that he is both their first black superhero, and the fact that they allowed Timm to use him on his show. To me, they view Hal as sort of a safety net and even Tom King who currently writes the Omega Men book with Kyle Rayner, said that every time someone else is in the pilot's cockpit(pun intended), it feels like they are just there to warm Hal's seat until he is back. I don't think they try to sabotage other characters for Hal's sake, but they seem to rely on him every time they feel like things aren't working out. And honestly today John and Hal are equally popular so the fact that Hal gets more toys or is featured in animated projects doesn't guarantee that his book would sell better. Superman, Wonder Woman and currently Flash are much more in the public eye than Hal is and yet Action Comics, WW and Flash all sell less copies than Hal's book does.
Yes, we have been over this. You're only half right though, Hal was indeed not considered to be an essential character back then, but for very obvious reasons. The show came out after DC turned him into a murderous lunatic and then killed him off. For all the mistreatment you feel they gave John, they never took the steaming dump on him that they took on Hal in the 90s. In 2001 Jordan for all intents and purposes was considered a relic from the past, that's why they were pushing Kyle in comics and put John on the show for diversity. But again, when DC saw that things were not working out in sales, they brought Hal back. I am not saying it would've been wrong to put John in a movie, after all he was supposed to be in that canceled JLA movie, nor am I saying it's wrong for some people to remember seeing him as kids on TV, but I can't subscribe to the theory that using Hal in a movie was a boneheaded decision that drove viewers away. We have discussed this before and you know where I stand on it, so we agree to disagree on that. Unlike the time when Justice League started, today DC clearly sees value in Hal's character in other media, and as a company that aims to make profit, I think they would not have continued to give him preferential treatment unless he was doing well for them. They seem to realize where they messed up in his movie, if they didn't I doubt we would see Hal in every GL/JL project outside of comics.
WB/DC aims to make a profit, but that doesn't mean that the decisions they make are good ones that will yield profits. They aimed to make profit & start a franchise w/Hal's film & we see how that turned out.
I'm not gonna speculate on how Hal's book sells more than those charters. Not really concerned about comic sales to be honest, but ALL of those characters get treated better than John has. Even people on the Hal side of this admit that DC doesn't seem to care much about him. I do think they wanted to kill him off & I doubt they'd have brought him back anytime soon.
Like I said, I've got no beef with you. Hal and John are fictional characters and that's all there is to it. Fanboys are fanboys, we have our own distinctive ideas about how companies should treat the characters we like and we express ourselves about it.
Glad there's no beef
The debate doesn't matter anymore, Hal will be the GL in the Justice League movies, and he will later be joined by John in GLC. (confirmed by those that attended SDCC '15)
It never really mattered to begin with. None of us are in the boardroom making decisions. This is all about speculation & entertainment to me. You may be jumping to conclusions again tho. Nothing was confirmed by that blurriness. There may not even be a GL in JL. People thought that was art for Pine & we see how that panned out. On a side note: Is there anywhere online where they've released a good pic of the concept art?
Ah, I see our buddy brainchild as returned.
Look, I perfectly understand like one character better than another. I even understand HATING a character, despite the fact that he/she is totally fictional. For example, I have absolutely NO interest in ever seeing Booster Gold in a film, especially one directed by Greg Berlanti. But regardless of all that, there's no guarantee that a John Stewart GL film would have fared any better than one with Hal. It's possible, but there's no way to prove it.
Agreed. Would be cool to go to an alternate universe where they chose to go w/John, but until that becomes possible, this is all just speculation in a speculation thread.
Surprised you don't like Booster Gold. I haven't heard of many BG haters. I wouldn't call him a fave of mine, but I find him entertaining more often than not.
Of course, since the Hal film bombed, it's easy to point to the character and say he is a key reason the movie failed. And hell, he may have been. But then, does that mean that all of the members of the Fantastic Four are terrible characters? Because their movie bombed.
Nope.
All I'm saying is that no character is going to look good in a bad movie. They could have used John, and told his whole backstory accurately, but if the rest of the movie wasn't up to par, it still would have sucked.
Agreed. Would have likely made more $ than Hal's film just on John's curb appeal tho. Even in failure, they'd likely have been praised for the attempt at diversity.
Stewart has his fans so I doubt he gets the shaft.
Hasn't stopped them from shafting him before. I hope you're right, but they've shown before that they don't mind shafting the entire corps while they try (& fail miserably) to make Hal look cool. Just look at the last film. If they disrespect the corps & make this "Hal & friends" , they'll be shooting themselves in the foot again.
Fans who like other Lanterns better than Hal should still be able to see that it's Hal's universe that the other Lanterns inhabit. The most logical thing to do is to set that up rather than gamble all of the characters' history on something completely new, especially with Warner Bros involved.
Compared to what we got last time, I'd love something completely new. Although it wouldn't really be completely new. We've already seen a universe where Hal wasn't the main guy. It was awesome
We're seeing the best of all scenarios with the Flash TV show right now. Jay and Wally both have smaller but vocal fanbases like John, Kyle, and Guy. The show established Barry and the way his world functions, which led to Jay being introduced. We know how Wally's family fits into this world and we know that he's on the way. In other words, everyone wins.
Not quite. 1) I'd say John's fanbase is considerably larger than any league members outside of the big 3 that don't currently have a TV show. 2) Wally & fans have honestly been shafted royally. I don't harp on it as much as I do John getting the shaft because I'm a fan of both Barry & Wally, but what's happened to Wally has been some of the worst shafting a character's ever had. What's happened to John honestly pales in comparison. 1st they wipe him from existence, then they bring him back, but not only do they give him a completely uncalled for race change, but they **** up his backstory as well. Wally was fine the way he was. Didio should have been able to have the GL & Flash he grew up with come back without totally shafting the successors. I wish DC knew how to get nostalgic without totally ****ting on the current stuff. It's weird to say, but I miss the good ol' days...when DC didn't let nostalgia ruin everything. This is not a win for Wally fans.
This. All moot tho. Hal is our main GL because Wb has the most faith in his character.
If they doubted Hal, he wouldn't have been in that SDCC concept
art
They learned their lesson and they are doing it right this time around.
Hal as the lead, with John and other Gls as supporting characters. It will be awesome.
****! You thought it was going to be awesome last time too. This scares the hell out of me.
That's probably my biggest complaint about Hal relative to every other Green Lantern; if he's a classic hot-shot with nothing to lose and they don't explore that as a plot but instead just make it a characteristic, he really is kind of generic and uninteresting compared to the others.
If you want Hal to be a hot shot with authority issues, then have that be integral to the story; maybe he's paired with Sinestro so Sinestro can rein him in, or his history of rebelliousness means he's not trusted and has to fight other Lanterns, or he's susceptible to Parallax.
He can't just be the Kirk of the group unless he's the fallible and occasionally foolhardy Kirk from Wrath of Khan.
I wouldn't put it past them to nerf the other lanterns again to make Hal look more interesting.
