Arrow The Official Helena Bertinelli Thread

[Silver Surfer]

Sara was LOA member for years, her body count is bigger than Ollie and Helena combined.

 

[Grommers]

As opposed to innocent bodyguards whose only crime was being hired to protect legitimate businessmen? And what about the various chauffeurs whose job description didn't even include protecting their employer? Yes, she's crossed a line but that moral line is far from universal and is personal to you.

At least with Helena, she killed the officers in an effort to kill her father; so there was at least a point to it. With Oliver, he's killed bodyguards and other innocent bystanders just to make a point and threaten the actual criminal.


P.S.: As a side note, how exactly are cops different from bodyguards? What makes these particular individuals somehow more important or valuable than another fellow human?

Body guards are privately owned, police are paid for by the people to protect the people. (even the bad guys get protection from police at times.)

You could have a huge philosophical debate about what's what, but ultimately, Helena is meant to be portrayed to us as an extremist compared too Arrow, and that's why she's not a good guy(girl).


I mean I'm sure from slade's point of view, ollie took the girl he wanted, dumped her basically for a new chick, got his girl killed by getting them in that situation in the first place, and than tried to kill slade, instead of trying to be there for him in a time of need. (there relationship may go more and more sour but it's all about perspective.)

And you could totally write it to make it seem Death Stroke (slade) was the good guy.


Enjoy the show for what it is, and let the writers suspend your belief this guy is doing the right thing as best as he can with some flaws along the way.

 

[mr. peasant]

Body guards are privately owned, police are paid for by the people to protect the people. (even the bad guys get protection from police at times.)

You could have a huge philosophical debate about what's what, but ultimately, Helena is meant to be portrayed to us as an extremist compared too Arrow, and that's why she's not a good guy(girl).

I agree. However, those claiming that she is therefore beyond redemption in the audience's eyes is somewhat premature. We don't know what the writers have in store for the character. Competently written shows (of which Arrow certainly counts as one) are generally pretty good at imparting the protagonist's perspective onto the viewer; i.e. what's right, wrong, redeemable, etc is dependent on the view and how it affects the focal protagonist/ensemble.

 

[Nathan]

She threated Felicity once. To the audience, she's as good as dead.

 

[Human Torch]

Sara was LOA member for years, her body count is bigger than Ollie and Helena combined.

But she didn't kill cops.That's the unpardonable sin.

 

[Matt.S99]

Guess I'm a bad person because I'm willing to forget that she did that haha.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

As opposed to innocent bodyguards whose only crime was being hired to protect legitimate businessmen? And what about the various chauffeurs whose job description didn't even include protecting their employer? Yes, she's crossed a line but that moral line is far from universal and is personal to you.

At least with Helena, she killed the officers in an effort to kill her father; so there was at least a point to it. With Oliver, he's killed bodyguards and other innocent bystanders just to make a point and threaten the actual criminal.


P.S.: As a side note, how exactly are cops different from bodyguards? What makes these particular individuals somehow more important or valuable than another fellow human?

Police are officers of the law. They are there to protect and serve the public and enforce all that is just by our laws.


The bodyguards were hired by criminals. They knew what they were getting into.

Especially when the ones that Oliver killed were armed to the teeth with lethal weapons (like in the Cyrus Vanch episode).

 

[DrRocket]

Police are officers of the law. They are there to protect and serve the public and enforce all that is just by our laws.


The bodyguards were hired by criminals. They knew what they were getting into.

Especially when the ones that Oliver killed were armed to the teeth with lethal weapons (like in the Cyrus Vanch episode).

Well so do the police officers know what they're getting into. Point is huntress can be redeemed. You know I wouldn't care if ollie killed some cops, I'd still think he's a awesome badass and wouldn't like him any less ( tho I f-ing loved Walter white so....)

 

[Nathan]

And again, let's not forget that Helena was perfectly willing to put people into harm's way, that couldn't defend themselves. She attacked Tommy, and threatened pretty much the entire club in order to get Oliver to cooperate. She went after Felicity, to get information on her father's whereabouts. Who knows what she would have done, if Felicity had refused at first.

Yes, both Oliver and Sara did some terrible things. But Helena is a special brand of crazy.

 

[DrRocket]

^ crazy in the head, crazy in the bed

 

[Gee]

^ crazy in the head, crazy in the bed

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

Well so do the police officers know what they're getting into. Point is huntress can be redeemed. You know I wouldn't care if ollie killed some cops, I'd still think he's a awesome badass and wouldn't like him any less ( tho I f-ing loved Walter white so....)

Police Officers operate within the laws though. They aren't hired thugs for protection who are given machine guns and free reign to kill any opposition.

Huntress can be redeemed but only if she turns herself in for all the murders.

Gordon said it best in TDK. You can't just sweep the death of those cops under the rug.

There isn't much that separates Arrow's Huntress from the regular villains on the show. I'd rather they just kill her off like in the comics. Her character on Arrow is a failure on every level.

 

[DrRocket]

Police Officers operate within the laws though. They aren't hired thugs for protection who are given machine guns and free reign to kill any opposition.

Huntress can be redeemed but only if she turns herself in for all the murders.

Gordon said it best in TDK. You can't just sweep the death of those cops under the rug.

I'd rather they just kill her off like in the comics though. Her character on Arrow is a failure on every level.

Hired thugs? For all we know they could be a security team from a firm. So oliver should turn himself over? He's killed probably over a hundred people in his lifetime. Kill the huntress? Only if oliver shoots her in the throat

 

[Nathan]

If Helene acknowledges what she's done, and turns herself in, that would definitely redeem the character in my eyes. And to get her released early, maybe she could be approached by Waller as well. Either to get her on the Suicide Squad, or maybe a different team.

And once she's served her time, she could join Sara, to form the Birds of Prey.

 

[DrRocket]

^ Sara has killed a bunch of innocent people for the LOA, and left the guys children to find the body, now that's ice cold, but she's been redeemed.

If the huntress can't be redeemed, send her over to me and I'll make sure to Punish her for being a naughty girl.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

Hired thugs? For all we know they could be a security team from a firm. So oliver should turn himself over? He's killed probably over a hundred people in his lifetime. Kill the huntress? Only if oliver shoots her in the throat

What film security team carries machine guns? So far all the henchmen Oliver had used lethal force against on screen have appeared to be hired protection by criminals or criminals themselves running illegal and deadly enterprises.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ARZCQR3gg

Big difference there from massacring a team of police officers enforcing the law.

This is why Oliver has never killed any law enforcement, despite often having to deal with their interference on the battlefield.

 

[DrRocket]

^ point is oliver has killed by now over a 100 people, I'm sure there were a few innocent people in there.

What If those cops were corrupted too, eh?

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

That's a big 'what if.' And Helena wouldn't have known whether they were corrupt or not. Her motive was still the same. She murdered them without a second thought.

And at no point has the show depicted Oliver killing innocent civilians onscreen. I mean his season one kill count is right there. All criminals.

 

[Human Torch]

She should turn herself in!

 

[DrRocket]

^ a big if? Yeah so is the fact that Oliver has only killed criminals. I'm sure some if those bodyguards were good guys who needed the money for their families.

Addressed to Cap.M

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

^ a big if? Yeah so is the fact that Oliver has only killed criminals. I'm sure some if those bodyguards were good guys who needed the money for their families.

Addressed to Cap.M

Wow...

It doesn't matter if they were good guys who needed the money.

They joined up with a criminal enterprise and became criminals when they armed themselves with machine guns to protect a criminal and his shady actions.

That sealed their fate. Episode 6 dealt with a similar issue. Derek Reston committing crimes to support his family. He was still breaking the law and putting others in danger.

Needing the money isn't an adequate defense for criminal activity involving lethal weaponry.

 

[DrRocket]

^ you just made my point. So because they joined to protect the criminals, they become criminals. Well that's exactly what the cops did, they protected a criminal.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

The cops were legally bound to do so.

That's the big difference. The cops were performing their duties. Enforcing the law.


It wouldn't be unlawful for Police Officers to hand criminals over to those who have vendettas against them.

Obviously the cops were following their legal obligations... before Huntress massacred them.


The cops weren't hired by a criminal like Frank Bertinelli as armed protection.

 

[DrRocket]

^ basically they were doing their jobs, same applies to the body guards.

If the bodyguards are criminals for protecting a criminal then so are the cops, even if its their duty, it's also the guards duty to protect the criminals too.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

You can't compare those Cops with armed body guards. Cops work under the law and are legally accountable for their actions.


Those armed body guards, given machine guns, and hired by criminals to use lethal force to protect those criminals and advance their objectives is a BIG difference from...

A team of police officers legally bound to protect the life of a captured criminal who is in restraints and under guard by them.