Days of Future Past The Official James McAvoy/Professor Xavier Thread

[Loganbabe]

But I also see where Raven was coming from, and agree with earlier posters that she had good reason to leave. She didn't leave lightly; Charles had to push her along (which goes back into his "Oh, I'm all right--don't worry about me," type of behavior). Maybe she should have caught onto that, knowing him for as long as she has, but then again...she does end up being a villain!

I know; that's exactly my problem with the whole "Charles-and-Raven" subject. While it was quite lovely the idea that they met as kids, and she grew up feeling so accepted that she considered Charles her brother, when we see Raven later on - in X1, for example - it makes no sense that she would try to harm him, you know? It would have been more acceptable if Raven was a mutant girl Charles met while in Oxford, they started dating but somehow Charles was a bit uncomfortable with her blue form, which made her insecure, then enters Erik, etc. But young Charles had totally accepted Raven the first time he saw her, they formed a very deep relationship, and when Charles really needs her (even though he won't admit it, like you said) she leaves with a bunch of guys she hardly knew instead of staying with him (and eventually leaving, later on, at least after she knew he would live)?

I once read an interview with one of the writers, and she said Mystique kind of represented the audience, and her decisions were in a way decisions that followed the audience's desire. I don't know what to make of it. I always thought that the movie was built around the idea that the audience should follow Magneto's ideas and side with him, so Mystique leaving Charles was like the last nail on his coffin. Meaning, "why would I stay with this idiotic pacifist, who'll become a cripple and a teacher, when I can follow cool Magneto and do cool things like kill people and blow things up?" I can see a great part of the audience thinking this way, but why the Raven from the first part of the film would agree it was the right thing to do, knowing her deep relationship with Charles, is a mistery to me.

I don't think the problem was that Charles didn't accept her, even her blue form. And it's neither Charles' fault nor responsibility to find her attractive; that's a personal opinion and it's not fair to criticize him for not thinking her blue form is beautiful. I think Charles' mistake (and yes, I think he made one, being a human being and all), is that he assumed no one else would find her beautiful, either.

I don't know. In this case, I think it came more from Hank than Charles. We see that Raven was attracted to Hank, she thought they could start some kind of relationship, but then Hanks tells her no one will ever find her blue form attractive. And I don't blame Hank for thinking that way, even though he was a bit blunt and insensitive about it.

You see it in the beginning scene with Raven asking if Charles would, hypothetically, date her. He says that he would; that she's stunning and "any young man would be lucky to have you", and she says, "looking like this?" Charles replies, "Blue?" and then avoids the question completely and even criticizes her for being too much into her looks.

But with Charles, I think it was a totally different issue. It was more like he was indifferent to her image issues. Not in a cruel, insensitive way, though. He just couldn't see - or read - how much it was affecting her.

I think most people forget that they had that kind of informal, playful, brother-sister-annoying-each-other relationship. I saw it as something that happens within 99% of siblings, when we are so used to the other person that we don't see the big things that are affecting them. Like the sister going "Ah, I'm so fat!" and the brother "You sure are!" and then the girl "I'm going to tell mom!" and throwing something at him and the boy running and going "Nanananana!", you know? Raven was annoying Charles on the pub, later on he was dismissive of her image issues, etc. Petty, silly bickering.

I think this had been going on until the moment Raven knew she had fallen in love with Charles in a non-sisterly way - that was the moment when his opinions about her blue form meant a whole different thing, although he was still feeling like a big brother and rather surprised that she suddenly cared so much about her appearence (as he tells her in the movie when he's studying for his thesis and she's going on and on about "dating her blue" and stuff). And of course, he didn't read her mind so he wouldn't really know. And yeah, maybe Charles didn't think that blue was attractive, but maybe he was just uncomfortable with the idea that he sensed that his "sister" had fallen in love with him. It was a new factor on their relationship, something new for him to think about, given more time.

Again, he doesn't have to find her beautiful, but his assumption that no one else would find her beautiful was his error in judgment. I'm not saying that deserves her leaving him gun-shot on a beach, but I, personally, understand why she left.

This is one thing I actually, really like about this younger version of Charles; he's not perfect. He's not a messiah and he's flawed. Like everyone else. I'm so glad they put this into the movie; it makes him so much more real and also gives him a chance to develop more into his older self. Being in a wheelchair, he will have people staring at him, curious about him for the rest of his life. He will understand what it feels like to look different in public and have people judge him without knowing him.

I like him flawed, and I agree it makes him real. But I think that maybe his biggest flaw was that, in his efforts to help people, he was kind of determining what was the best for them. To some people peace is not an option indeed. But I belive that even Erik understood that Charles' actions came from good intentions, even if he appeared näive to him.

I still think that not agreeing with Charles' ideals didn't excuse Erik of leaving him behind gravely injured, but Erik had been badly damaged as a young boy, and killing Shaw only opened even more his old wounds. But Raven? Other than not agreeing with Charles that mutants like herself shouldn't expose themselves for their own safety, she has had his protection all her life. Yes, she was on her way to become a ruthless assassin, but it makes no sense she would turn against the man who had loved and cared for her since they were kids.

 

[Drefan21]

Charles attitude towards Raven is dismissive and patronizing. He looks like a arrogant jerk.

 

[LostSon88]

Ravens transformation into 'Mystique' in the later movies is just tragic.

...really makes you wonder if there was a defining moment that officially turned her 'evil' with little to no sympathy for mankind.

Something they'll address in a sequel no doubt.

 

[merbass]

I wonder who will train her and gave her acrobatic skills. Emma, perhaps ?

 

[Nerial]

Charles attitude towards Raven is dismissive and patronizing. He looks like a arrogant jerk.

You've obviously never had a brother-figure (or, if you do, he must be a god-send). Putting comic book continuality aside, in this movie, these two are basically siblings. He's acting like an "I'm the older brother, therefore I know best," attitude, yes--but that's normal in that type of relationship. I think calling him a jerk is a bit much.

 

[Nerial]

I wonder who will train her and gave her acrobatic skills. Emma, perhaps ?

Oh, I'd say Azazel. She probably learned most of her skills from him.

 

[Loganbabe]

Charles attitude towards Raven is dismissive and patronizing. He looks like a arrogant jerk.

A jerk? Yes, a jerk who invited a girl who had to steal food to survive to live in his house, and treated her like a sister and best friend.
Interesting concept of a jerk you have...

 

[Drefan21]

You know I didn´t mean it in a bad way. He was a jerk about her blue skin, but had only showed how much he has to learn before he becomes the Xaviers from X1 and X2. That makes him more realistc to me unlike Magneto......

The whole movie Magneto wanted to take revenge on Shaw. Then the moment he has him Shaw gives him the "Humans will hunt us" speech.. suddenly he want to kill all Humans?!

And there are some Magneto fans on other sites who call Charles a *****ebag for beeing rich and privileged. There nothing wrong with beeing rich. He shares his fortune first with Raven and later with children like Scott and Ororo......

I keep reading saying that his paralysis was well-deserved punishment because he said " They only following orders". Nobody deserved something like that.

Sorry, I had to vent.

 

[BestGirl]

I think this had been going on until the moment Raven knew she had fallen in love with Charles in a non-sisterly way - that was the moment when his opinions about her blue form meant a whole different thing, although he was still feeling like a big brother and rather surprised that she suddenly cared so much about her appearence (as he tells her in the movie when he's studying for his thesis and she's going on and on about "dating her blue" and stuff). And of course, he didn't read her mind so he wouldn't really know. And yeah, maybe Charles didn't think that blue was attractive, but maybe he was just uncomfortable with the idea that he sensed that his "sister" had fallen in love with him. It was a new factor on their relationship, something new for him to think about, given more time.

I'm not sure Raven was ever really in love with Charles. She couldn't date or have sex with anyone (I assume) for fear that her disguise might slip, so her only hope for a relationship was with Charles. But notice how quickly she ditches him for Hank and then Erik. That makes me think her romantic feelings for him didn't run all that deep.

As for her abandoning Charles...I gleaned from her behavior that she was frustrated with her life. She probably had no friends outside of Charles, her attempt at a relationship with Hank hadn't worked out, she was clearly upset that she'd had to spend her whole life hiding who she was from other people, and I don't think she ever really bought into Charles's ideals about coexistence. I had the sense that she wanted to be independent and Magneto offered that to her, along with his affection. She chose an awful time to leave but they'd been drifting apart (even if Charles didn't realize it) throughout the course of the movie.

The whole movie Magneto wanted to take revenge on Shaw. Then the moment he has him shaw gives him the "Humans will hunt us" speech.. suddenly he want to kill all Humans?!

Magneto had been suspicious about humans ever since he learned he belonged to a new species. Remember his conversation wit Charles in front of the Lincoln Memorial? He didn't like the fact that government was identifying mutants.

 

[scatterax]

Oh, I'd say Azazel. She probably learned most of her skills from him.

makes sense. And if he trains her it leaves plenty of time for night-crawlers "origins"

 

[Drefan21]

Thanks Rachel, I forget about that^^ It stil felt a bit little rushed.

 

[scatterax]

eh, it coulda been stretched out, like a lot of story elements in the movie, but how fun the movie is makes up for any of that.

 

[Loganbabe]

You know I didn´tmean it in a bad way. He was a jerk about her blue skin, but had only showed how much he has to learn before he becomes the Xaviers from X1 and X2. That makes him more realistc to me unlike Magneto......

Oh, okay, now it makes sense! Maybe you were under the impression of what you read in other sites when you called him a jerk. I know that Xavier is judged harshly by many fanboys, in contrast with the "oh so perfect" Magneto.
I don't really think Charles despised Raven's blue skin. Maybe he just accepted it, but wasn't really attracted to it, which isn't a crime. I guess she wanted more than his mere acceptance (and maybe a certain aloofness), something he really couldn't give her.

The whole movie Magneto wanted to take revenge on Shaw. Then the moment he has him shaw gives him the "Humans will hunt us" speech.. suddenly he want to kill all Humans?!

It looked rushed to me as well. Plus, I don't get Magneto going all "I'll lead you my fellow mutants!" when before that he didn't look like the type who would feel comfortable with a whole gang following him - he had been like a solitary wolf all his life. The only person he seemed to trust was Charles, but he made the choice of leaving him to lead a bunch of unkown (and probably untrustworthy) assassins. Oh well.

And there are some Magneto fans on other sites who call Charles a *****ebag for beeing rich and privileged. There nothing wrong with beeing rich. He shares his fortune first with Raven and later with children like Scott and Ororo...

It's ridiculous and absurd that he should be considered a *****ebag because he was rich. And it's weird the lenghts some fanboys will go to diss Charles so they can make Erik look better.
I agree, being rich is not a personality flaw. Charles was a good man who used his money in a good way. Simple as that.

I keep reading saying that his paralysis was well-deserved punishment because he said " They only following orders". Nobody deserved something like that.

Really?! Wow...
I don't even know what to say about people who think like this. It's just sad. I hope they or their family will never have to go through what Charles had to endure.
I still hate that they decided to give that out of character line to Charles, making him look like an insensitive jerk so that Magneto would look all cool and justified. But that was how the film was set. Anyway, Charles was under a lot of stress trying to save those men, he used the first thing that came to his head. Now people must be psychos if they really believe he deserved punishment for trying to save lives...

 

[Drefan21]

Yeah I hate when people have to put other characters down to make their favourit look better.

 

[Nerial]

You know I didn´t mean it in a bad way. He was a jerk about her blue skin, but had only showed how much he has to learn before he becomes the Xaviers from X1 and X2. That makes him more realistc to me unlike Magneto......

That's fair enough. I wouldn't say he was being a jerk as he just didn't understand what she was going through, but I see where you're coming from. Having to hide your true self from the world in fear people wouldn't accept you is not something Charles understood. Ironically, being paralyzed and having to be in a wheelchair for the rest of his life will give him insight on what it's like for people to judge him without knowing him (not saying he deserves such treatment, but it will give him insight into "looking different").

The whole movie Magneto wanted to take revenge on Shaw. Then the moment he has him Shaw gives him the "Humans will hunt us" speech.. suddenly he want to kill all Humans?!

I actually, really liked Magneto's downfall. It wasn't just the speech to me; there was plenty of foreshadow about his mistrust of humans. His conversation by the Washington Monument with Charles and especially his conversation with him during their chess game made that clear. His history with the Nazis and hunting down Nazis is also a part of that. He believed whole-heartedly the humans would betray them...and he was right.

And there are some Magneto fans on other sites who call Charles a *****ebag for beeing rich and privileged. There nothing wrong with beeing rich. He shares his fortune first with Raven and later with children like Scott and Ororo......

That's just stupid. Um, hello? Batman is stinkin' rich, too, and he's one of the most--if not the most--famous superhero out there. How dare someone think that because a person comes from a "privileged" background, they're automatically a jerk. Charles couldn't be more selfless with his money; he took in Raven and later, several other mutants, and gave them a home. Even in the movie when Banshee says, "This is yours?", Charles replies, "No...it's ours." How much more selfless can the man be???

I keep reading saying that his paralysis was well-deserved punishment because he said " They only following orders". Nobody deserved something like that.

Sorry, I had to vent.

I didn't have a problem with that line--what else was he supposed to say? He's absolutely right; most of those men on the ships probably didn't even know what was going on and Magneto was trying to kill them. I think Charles meant it one way and Magneto took it another way.

And I will tell you something now (I've talked about this in earlier posts), I wouldn't wish Charles' injury on anyone. It's not just a matter of not being able to walk--in fact, they've done studies on people with paraplegia and walking is usually listed as the third or fourth thing on the list that a paraplegic wants to regain. The top three are: trunk stability (which Charles seems to have), bladder/bowel function (para's with complete injuries use catheters and other things I won't get into here, and Charles is most likely a complete injury) and number 1--sexual function.

Oh, yes...Charles deserves to be paralyzed where he can't move OR feel anything from his bellybutton down because he said, "They're just following orders." That's just sick! Those posters need to do some research on spinal cord injuries before their little fingers start typing.

Sorry, I went off on a rant, too.

 

[Drefan21]

Nerial, I can totally understand you. Nobody deserves something like that! And To say something like that is offensive.
I also had no proplem with that line He didn´t what to say to stop Magneto so he said the first think that comes to his mind.

 

[Nerial]

Nerial, I can totally understand you. Nobody deserves something like that! And To say something like that is offensive.
I also had no proplem with that line He didn´t what to say to stop Magneto so he said the first think that comes to his mind.

Totally agree. I think people are just ignorant at times and crap comes out of their mouths (or keyboards) as a result. Sadly, it's also another reason why people relate to Magneto more than Charles; everyone knows what it's like to experience the loss of a loved one. Very few people know what it's like to experience the loss of a part of your physical self. Ironically, most psychological textbooks on spinal cord injury compare it to the feelings you experience when someone very close to you dies, and you have to go through a grieving process as a result.

The reason I had no problem with that line is because of this question--what else was he supposed to say? This guy's about to murder thousands of people and you have two seconds to argue with him. I don't even think it's a bad line--I think Charles meant it as, "they don't even know what's really going on here," and Magneto took it as the same thing the Nazis regime did, which isn't the case. Most of the men on the ships probably had nothing to do with what the head decision-makers were doing.

Darn that Stryker! Him and his son are just bad eggs.

 

[Loganbabe]

The problem I have with the line is that the film was already set so that our sympathies would lie with Magneto. When Charles said that it was almost like - well, as if Erik was right to send the missiles back and kill those men. Of course there's nothing wrong with the line itself - Charles was right, the majority of men had no idea of what was going on and all they saw were threatening creatures flying and exploding things. Plus, we have to remember that Shaw had attacked the CIA and lots of agents had been killed by a weird demonic creature and a guy with a helmet and explosive powers, so their fear regarding the X-Men was obviously unfair, but also understandable.

What irked me was that the line was put in the context of "nazis following orders" when Erik replied with the "never again". Even if the context is totally, completely different, it unfortunately led to a lot of people calling Charles a "nazi sympathizer", and a *****ebag and insensitive and "no wonder Erik and Raven abandoned him" and "he got what he deserved". It saddens me that the line was purposely used so that Charles would be seen as an idiot and Magneto would be seen as right.

I don't know if I'm making myself clear, but I don't like that the line is forcefully associated with nazism, because of Erik's background. I mean, Charles had already used the "they are only innocent men", which was perfect and fitted Charles' ideals so well, but it seemed they needed something almost shocking and hateful to make Erik retaliate, you know? There was no need to put Charles in that position, as if he was responsible for Erik wanting to destroy the ships. I've been to a great number of forums and message boards, and the general perception is - Erik was right, Charles was wrong and was a jerk to boot. There should've been more of a balance.

 

[Drefan21]

Calling Charles jerk while thinking Erik did no wrong in XMFC.... that´s hypocritical!
Killing is worse than saying something " stupid " in the heat of the moment.

 

[Mrs Vimes]

I wouldn't blame the filmmakers though for the way some people interpret the "they're just following orders" exchange, and I don't think that they intended to make it look like Erik was right and Charles was wrong - my impression was that it's simply another demonstration of the yawning gulf between Erik and Charles. Of course Erik would take that line the way he did because of his past experiences, and he'd be predisposed to throw the men on the ships into the same basket as Nazis. But I don't think that the film encourages the audience to do the same - after all they took some care to humanise both Russian and American sides, particularly the captains. The way they portray the men on the ship is different to the way they portray the Nazis in Argentina bar - in that scene, we're totally meant to cheer Erik on when he takes revenge on them even as one of them protests that they were just following orders.

Of course some people will call Charles all kinds of things - but IMO that's something common to all fandoms where you have a popular character who is in a morally grey or sometimes pitch black territory. People just get carried away with the character's charisma/badassness/coolness/sex appeal, and end up heaping vitriol on other characters to make their favourite look better - particularly when it's someone who the character has wronged or hurt in some way. I've been on Harry Potter forums for years and man the way some people whitewash Snape and badmouth Harry is unbelievable.

Oh and on a totally unrelated and random note - I thought it was really refreshing to see a character who is a nerd *and* a ladies man

 

[Nerial]

The problem I have with the line is that the film was already set so that our sympathies would lie with Magneto. When Charles said that it was almost like - well, as if Erik was right to send the missiles back and kill those men. Of course there's nothing wrong with the line itself - Charles was right, the majority of men had no idea of what was going on and all they saw were threatening creatures flying and exploding things. Plus, we have to remember that Shaw had attacked the CIA and lots of agents had been killed by a weird demonic creature and a guy with a helmet and explosive powers, so their fear regarding the X-Men was obviously unfair, but also understandable.

What irked me was that the line was put in the context of "nazis following orders" when Erik replied with the "never again". Even if the context is totally, completely different, it unfortunately led to a lot of people calling Charles a "nazi sympathizer", and a *****ebag and insensitive and "no wonder Erik and Raven abandoned him" and "he got what he deserved". It saddens me that the line was purposely used so that Charles would be seen as an idiot and Magneto would be seen as right.

I don't know if I'm making myself clear, but I don't like that the line is forcefully associated with nazism, because of Erik's background. I mean, Charles had already used the "they are only innocent men", which was perfect and fitted Charles' ideals so well, but it seemed they needed something almost shocking and hateful to make Erik retaliate, you know? There was no need to put Charles in that position, as if he was responsible for Erik wanting to destroy the ships. I've been to a great number of forums and message boards, and the general perception is - Erik was right, Charles was wrong and was a jerk to boot. There should've been more of a balance.

Well...I think this goes back to some Magneto fans who want to push another character down in order to make their favorite character look good. I think you make some great points and I also think it's sad that some fans would call Charles a jerk (or worse) because he sided with, um...us (you know, the humans who Magneto wants to kill). Kinda funny when you think about it.

I will say that, while I felt that Magneto is the main protagonist in this (after all, his story arc was finished when he decided to take up Shaw's reign; Charles' story, however, was not), I do feel that the writers did try to add some balance to their sides. Maybe it wasn't even, but I definitely saw it.

1) Moira, of course. She's the pro-mutant human in the comics, too.
2) Oliver Platt's character. I loved having another CIA agent there who thought mutants were amazing and stood up for them.
3) Ironically, the CIA. Yes, they turned on mutants in the end...but a lot of men died trying to protect the CIA research facility and protect the mutants in there.

I'm hoping we'll see more of that in future films, because if we don't, it's like, "Okay, what are the X-men even fighting for, then?"

Going back to that line of dialogue--I wouldn't be too hard on the writers. They probably didn't realize how it would be interpreted, and honestly, that's not really their fault--it's impossible to predict those things from a raw script. Again, I think a lot of Magneto fans just want to make Charles look bad to make their character look cool.

I, for one, like both chararacters (Charles more so, but I still think Erik was a great badass), so I don't like either of them torn down or called silly names.

 

[Nerial]

I wouldn't blame the filmmakers though for the way some people interpret the "they're just following orders" exchange, and I don't think that they intended to make it look like Erik was right and Charles was wrong - my impression was that it's simply another demonstration of the yawning gulf between Erik and Charles. Of course Erik would take that line the way he did because of his past experiences, and he'd be predisposed to throw the men on the ships into the same basket as Nazis. But I don't think that the film encourages the audience to do the same - after all they took some care to humanise both Russian and American sides, particularly the captains. The way they portray the men on the ship is different to the way they portray the Nazis in Argentina bar - in that scene, we're totally meant to cheer Erik on when he takes revenge on them even as one of them protests that they were just following orders.

Of course some people will call Charles all kinds of things - but IMO that's something common to all fandoms where you have a popular character who is in a morally grey or sometimes pitch black territory. People just get carried away with the character's charisma/badassness/coolness/sex appeal, and end up heaping vitriol on other characters to make their favourite look better - particularly when it's someone who the character has wronged or hurt in some way. I've been on Harry Potter forums for years and man the way some people whitewash Snape and badmouth Harry is unbelievable.

Oh and on a totally unrelated and random note - I thought it was really refreshing to see a character who is a nerd *and* a ladies man

Hi, Mrs. Vimes! Welcome to the board.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Forum posters have a bad tendency to insult one character to bring up another character. It's kind of like a bully picking at someone to feel superior--a little weird, in my opinion.

Like I said before, I didn't have a problem with the line. I think some people are over-analyzing it in order to put Charles down to make Erik seem like he was in the right. And you bring up a great point; both the Americans and Russians were shown multiple times throughout that battle, mainly so you'd know who Magneto was trying to kill. That's a very good point and I thought it was done well in the movie.

 

[Nerial]

Random question: Just how old is Charles Xavier supposed to be in this movie?

I ask because I happened to spot something odd in the credits and was wondering if one of the crewmembers simply has bad math--for the young Charles Xavier they put him as 12 years-old (this is in 1944), and the older Charles they list as 24 years-old (this would be 1962).

Obviously, the math isn't adding up so I was wondering if anyone knew the right answer. I'm not asking for the actors' real ages, but the characters they're playing.

 

[blueserenity]

Random question: Just how old is Charles Xavier supposed to be in this movie?

I ask because I happened to spot something odd in the credits and was wondering if one of the crewmembers simply has bad math--for the young Charles Xavier they put him as 12 years-old (this is in 1944), and the older Charles they list as 24 years-old (this would be 1962).

Obviously, the math isn't adding up so I was wondering if anyone knew the right answer. I'm not asking for the actors' real ages, but the characters they're playing.

I noticed that too. I got the impression that Erik is supposed to be 30 or 31 because young Erik looks about 14-15 (the actor is that age as well). In the bonus features they've described Erik as being older than Charles, so my guess is 28-29. That would work with the 12 year old Charles, who looks 12 indeed (tho the actor is apparently a couple years older). Not sure who on the credit team had such terrible math though...

I'm more curious to know how old Mystique is meant to be physically. I think she's somewhere around 17 or 18. If she was aging half as fast as everyne, if 16 years pass then she's only had 8 so that would make sense. Wonder how they figured out she was only 18? Charles makes a point of getting her cola instead of alcohol which is a weird habit for someone who should be 26.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

The problem I have with the line is that the film was already set so that our sympathies would lie with Magneto. When Charles said that it was almost like - well, as if Erik was right to send the missiles back and kill those men. Of course there's nothing wrong with the line itself - Charles was right, the majority of men had no idea of what was going on and all they saw were threatening creatures flying and exploding things. Plus, we have to remember that Shaw had attacked the CIA and lots of agents had been killed by a weird demonic creature and a guy with a helmet and explosive powers, so their fear regarding the X-Men was obviously unfair, but also understandable.

What irked me was that the line was put in the context of "nazis following orders" when Erik replied with the "never again". Even if the context is totally, completely different, it unfortunately led to a lot of people calling Charles a "nazi sympathizer", and a *****ebag and insensitive and "no wonder Erik and Raven abandoned him" and "he got what he deserved". It saddens me that the line was purposely used so that Charles would be seen as an idiot and Magneto would be seen as right.

I don't know if I'm making myself clear, but I don't like that the line is forcefully associated with nazism, because of Erik's background. I mean, Charles had already used the "they are only innocent men", which was perfect and fitted Charles' ideals so well, but it seemed they needed something almost shocking and hateful to make Erik retaliate, you know? There was no need to put Charles in that position, as if he was responsible for Erik wanting to destroy the ships. I've been to a great number of forums and message boards, and the general perception is - Erik was right, Charles was wrong and was a jerk to boot. There should've been more of a balance.

Having watched the movie a few times, not once did I feel that that particular line was forcefully associated with Nazism, and I dont think it was intended that way. The scene played out perfectly, and it showed just how narrow Erik/Magneto's line of thinking is/was, he finds a way to link EVERYTHING to his childhood experiences because its what he knows. In his eyes, humans are Nazi's and he's incapable of thinking in any other way, but Charles is. In my eyes it sets Charles up as the more sympathetic of the two. I love the scene and seeing Magneto turning bad was exciting, but Charles definately had my sympathy in that scene because he was right, there were thousands of men just following orders. They werent revelling in destroying the mutants, they were doing what they were told.

I've watched the movie 5 times now and this has been my interpretation of the scene every-time, not once have felt that line was forcefully associated to Nazism and was intended to be. It was intended to show how narrow Magneto's thinking was.