Days of Future Past Should DOFP be used to reboot the X-Men franchise?

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I don't see why using time travel to undo a horrible event or a series of horrible events is somehow "bad storytelling". In the context of the X-Men mythology, it's fair game. Especially in a movie that heavily features time travel and such concepts.

And it's only lazy if it's executed in a lazy manner, which we don't know yet.

It's bad storytelling because the time travel isn't to undo a horrible event, it's to undo the 6 movies that came before Days Of Future Past so that they never happened.

And last I checked, in the context of the X-Men mythology, the Days Of Future Past storyline was never used to reboot the continuity and toss out everything that came before it.

I have never said that you were defending "everything" that happened in TLS. But you have certainly been going to bat for some of the worst elements of that film. For example, you seem to be willing to let a bad studio decision stand (the death of Cyclops) simply because "it's already happened". Why? It shouldn't have happened at all. And it took place because of studio politics involving Bryan, James Marsden, Thom Rothman, FOX and WB. That is a documented fact Nell.

If there's an opportunity to right that wrong, it should be taken for the sake of the Cyclops character. And that's the crux of my point.

And it's Caliph, by the way.

Apologies, I don't know why I had Caleb on my mind.

But yes, "it already happened" is exactly the reason why it should remain. No, it never should have happened, with that I agree, but if things that have happened are undone wily nilly just because, then there's no credibility left in the franchise, because there's no consequence to the events of the story. It will all just be washed away, ignored and undone whenever it's felt like.

That's even worse than the initial killing off of a character that never should have been killed off in the first place.

I think that acknowledgement would come from if people think it's faithful enough. How faithful is faithful enough though? Given the subjective nature of opinion, I think it's hard to determine the line in which many would draw and say, "This is a faithful interpretation of this medium," or "They nailed it," and know for sure where it should be. Even in this series there is a large divide between opinions on what is or isn't the appropriate adaptation of these characters and stories. And even with people who agree there are layers of argument about which specific aspects were "given their due." So I think it's very hard to imply people aren't giving their full opinions on things when it seems like people are very passionate about saying what exactly they want from this series (both for and against any included changes).

Jean sacrifices herself to save the rest of the X-Men?
-Check

Jean resurrects from underneath a body of water, having never really died in the first place?
-Check

Jean is emotionally fragile and unstable?
-Check

Villainous organization takes Jean and manipulates her?
-Check

Wolverine fights through villain group's hideout to try to rescue Jean?
-Check

Jean commits a tragic atrocity?
-Check

Jean psy-battles Xavier?
-Check

Jean's love for Cyclops is the one thing left of her humanity and fuels her need to sacrifice herself with some of her humanity in tact rather than live as this dangerous goddess?
-Check

Looks like it hit a lot of the right notes to me.

Ten years ago we're begging for a movie like this, for sentinels, for Apocalypse, for Wolverine's costume, for an adaptation closer to the comics and a shared universe. Now that we're getting it, [some] people are upset. The irony is astonishing.

I was never begging for Apocalypse, Wolverine's costume, nor a shared universe.

In fact, I'm actively against at least 2 of those things, and "meh" at best about the 3rd.

I did, however, ask for a movie with Sentinels, and something a bit more akin to the comics. I've been getting the latter with every movie in the series beginning with X-Men 3, and I'm getting the former in Days Of Future Past.

It's just a shame that, like X-Men 3 with Cyclops' death and Rogue's curing, an otherwise great movie is going to be tainted with atrocious aspects of storytelling that keep it from reaching it's full potential and ultimately holding the series back from what it could have been.

Not wanting most films In series being erased Is not living In 2006.

This is also my response to Naji.

Just because I don't like the creative direction for the future of the franchise doesn't mean I'm stuck in 2006.

It means that I don't want my investment in these characters since 2000 thrown to waste all because fans on the internet haven't gotten over the treatment of one character 8 years ago.

Talk about living in 2006...

 

[BMM]

Yes, clearly this film's creative decisions are being dictated by the wishes of fans on the internet and nothing else.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Well throwing out past continuity and resurrecting characters certainly isn't coming from the comic book arc they are supposed to be adapting...

 

[DigificWriter]

I said I was done posting til we got a new trailer, but felt compelled to respond to the following.

I don't see why using time travel to undo a horrible event or a series of horrible events is somehow "bad storytelling". In the context of the X-Men mythology, it's fair game. Especially in a movie that heavily features time travel and such concepts.

It's bad storytelling because it's UNNECESSARY storytelling.

 

[BMM]

Well throwing out past continuity and resurrecting characters certainly isn't coming from the comic book arc they are supposed to be adapting...

Really? That's your argument? It isn't like the book, so it must be because of fans on the internet? You can't think of any reason other than that, such as for potential future storytelling purposes, the personal desires of the director, or the most obvious reason--that what works well for one medium may not work well for another?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Really? That's your argument? It isn't like the book, so it must be because of fans on the internet? You can't think of any reason other than that, such as for potential future storytelling purposes, the personal desires of the director, or the most obvious reason--that what works well for one medium may not work well for another?

1.) I've already outlined how this franchise can continue, with all the characters that everyone wants, without throwing out continuity and making it so the past 6 movies never happened.

2.) If reboots and continuity wipes are part of this director's personal desires, then he has overstayed his welcome

3.) That's exactly my point - where a cluster**** of continuity and ignoring what has come before it and progressing with 900 different timelines works in the comics, it's horrendous filmmaking, which is a medium that should be held to higher than the juvenile standards that comic books are held to.

 

[BMM]

Your suggestion that characters like Cyclops have simply been living on the Astral Plane for 10 years isn't any better than anything I've heard about from Days of Future Past. Moreover, it invalidates your higher standard argument, as it's just as juvenile as anything I've ever read in a comic book.

So, no, I don't think those reasons do well to explain how the creative decisions of Days of Future Past are solely being driven by the desires of internet fans.

 

[Naji Assan]

One question on my mind when reading several of these posts is why posters who have given up on the franchise continue to dedicate time to it by posting here? Its one thing to have concerns over certain aspects of the movie, but to consider its main premise atrocious and still invest time into discussing it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

I gave up on the Transformers films in 2009. You'll never see me posting in that forum.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm perfectly okay with the idea of "fixing s**t" if it means getting the X-Men films back on track into something more structured, and with better continuity.

Cyclops has not been treated well, and we still know next to nothing about Storm (though she has had some great moments and power displays).

In hindsight, it was a mistake to make a movie called 'the last stand' (DoFP looks like much more of a 'last stand') as it hasn't helped the franchise grow. Clearly, X3 was intended to wrap up the main series - but that alone was a mistake for something that has so much more potential. And so many characters didn't get a very good farewell in X3.

If we can now get back to a more quality offering that isn't dictated by studio feuds, short-sightedness, incompetence, ineptitude and bitter, kneejerk reactions, then that has to be a good thing. Those who don't like it don't have to watch it, but it seems astonishing that an attempt to rejuvenate the series and restore its potential should be seen as negative by anyone.

 

[Angamb]

totally agree with your whole post.

 

[marvelrobbins]

I'm perfectly okay with the idea of "fixing s**t" if it means getting the X-Men films back on track into something more structured, and with better continuity.

Cyclops has not been treated well, and we still know next to nothing about Storm (though she has had some great moments and power displays).

In hindsight, it was a mistake to make a movie called 'the last stand' (DoFP looks like much more of a 'last stand') as it hasn't helped the franchise grow. Clearly, X3 was intended to wrap up the main series - but that alone was a mistake for something that has so much more potential. And so many characters didn't get a very good farewell in X3.

If we can now get back to a more quality offering that isn't dictated by studio feuds, short-sightedness, incompetence, ineptitude and bitter, kneejerk reactions, then that has to be a good thing. Those who don't like it don't have to watch it, but it seems astonishing that an attempt to rejuvenate the series and restore its potential should be seen as negative by anyone.

If rumored ending turns out to be true they aren't fixing anything they are erasing most of series.They could essently say only First Class and FC parts of DOFP matter.

Presenting last Stand as last film was huge mistake.I consider copying In part J.J. Abrams take on Star Trek to be a mistake as well.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Your suggestion that characters like Cyclops have simply been living on the Astral Plane for 10 years isn't any better than anything I've heard about from Days of Future Past. Moreover, it invalidates your higher standard argument, as it's just as juvenile as anything I've ever read in a comic book.

So, no, I don't think those reasons do well to explain how the creative decisions of Days of Future Past are solely being driven by the desires of internet fans.

Then there's a much more logical way to bring Cyclops back, that doesn't involve throwing out continuity, or sitting on the Astral Plane.

It's called X-Men: First Class 3, and future follow up that include younger versions of Cyclops, Jean Grey, and Storm, giving them all the focus and respect that they may not have gotten in the main trilogy.

One question on my mind when reading several of these posts is why posters who have given up on the franchise continue to dedicate time to it by posting here? Its one thing to have concerns over certain aspects of the movie, but to consider its main premise atrocious and still invest time into discussing it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

I gave up on the Transformers films in 2009. You'll never see me posting in that forum.

Because the movie hasn't come out yet, and things may not play out as we speculate, if things do play out as theorized, they may not end up as bad as I think, or the almighty possibility: just like X-Men 3, just because one thing went wrong does not negate the rest of the movie's awesomeness.

However, I will say this - if X-Men: Days Of Future Past does indeed bring back Cyclops, Jean, and toss out the main trilogy, X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and The Wolverine, then I probably -won't- be hanging around in the X-Men forums talking about these movies anymore. I had what was largely a forum pass during X-Men: First Class when it was speculated to be a reboot, and my hype for it didn't build until it became perfectly clear that the movie was not a reboot.

If X-Men: Days Of Future Past ends up acting as a reboot, then yes, I will probably see my leave from discussing this franchise on the internet, and see my leave of hyping these movies pre-release.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Then there's a much more logical way to bring Cyclops back, that doesn't involve throwing out continuity, or sitting on the Astral Plane.

It's called X-Men: First Class 3, and future follow up that include younger versions of Cyclops, Jean Grey, and Storm, giving them all the focus and respect that they may not have gotten in the main trilogy.



Because the movie hasn't come out yet, and things may not play out as we speculate, if things do play out as theorized, they may not end up as bad as I think, or the almighty possibility: just like X-Men 3, just because one thing went wrong does not negate the rest of the movie's awesomeness.

However, I will say this - if X-Men: Days Of Future Past does indeed bring back Cyclops, Jean, and toss out the main trilogy, X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and The Wolverine, then I probably -won't- be hanging around in the X-Men forums talking about these movies anymore. I had what was largely a forum pass during X-Men: First Class when it was speculated to be a reboot, and my hype for it didn't build until it became perfectly clear that the movie was not a reboot.

If X-Men: Days Of Future Past ends up acting as a reboot, then yes, I will probably see my leave from discussing this franchise on the internet, and see my leave of hyping these movies pre-release.

There Is also the recon way of saying If you want to bring In apocalypse as a
villain Sinster grabed Cyclops and left glasses so others would think he's dead.
Plus If FC3 was a pure prequel you could show how CYclops was Introduced into X-Men.In a trek like situation by erasing films that wouldn't gurante
Cyclops suddenly becomes main character.Wolverine could be In FC3.And

Spoiler

If time travel cause magneto to never become the villain of trilogy

then even if no wolverine In FC3 It may very well be

Spoiler

Magneto In new timeline who works with Xavier

who Is focus not Cyclops.And they also want to bring In Gambit.

Once you erase all non-FC films there Is no gurante Cyclops,Jean,and Storm will still be among the first of new students.A reboot erases everything you
know.You could have Cyclops and Jean with no Storm.You could even have storm with no Cyclops and Storm.Hell we don't even have a bald Xavier In
FC era.They could even say In new timeline Xavier never goes bald.Some
will say they would never do that.Well I never thought i would see Star Trek try to beef up Uhuru over Mccoy but that's happened.

If rumored ending of DOFP turns out to be true and most of films erased then this Is probally my last X-Men film.My only Intrest In man of steel sequel Is
for Batman and that's to see If it does batman better than DKR did.Unfortuly the rumor of a semiretired batman doesn't excite me nor the idea of title being Man of steel with subtitle.Batman VS SUperman would have gotten the message this Is as much a batman film than a Superman film.

 

[X-Maniac]

If rumored ending turns out to be true they aren't fixing anything they are erasing most of series.They could essently say only First Class and FC parts of DOFP matter.

Presenting last Stand as last film was huge mistake.I consider copying In part J.J. Abrams take on Star Trek to be a mistake as well.

It all depends on whether they actually ARE erasing the series and copying Star Trek - and, if so, how they do it.

I don't think they would just copy Star Trek - that sounds a bit too obvious.

And if they are copying Star Trek, then in the same way the previous films still exist in their own timeline for people to watch and enjoy.

It's really hard to judge what they are doing without really knowing what they are doing. But Singer is usually pretty good at pulling things off in a believable way.

I'm NOT one of the bitter haters of X3 but even I have no problem with them creating a new timeline that gets the series back on track and leaves some or all of the existing films in another timeline.

 

[Angamb]

adressing a rumored ending is SPOILERS territory.

And there IS a Spoiler topic.

How many times do we need to say it? This is the second time in TWO days

 

[SuperT]

Well this thread escalated quickly, jesus.

 

[danoyse]

adressing a rumored ending is SPOILERS territory.

And there IS a Spoiler topic.

How many times do we need to say it? This is the second time in TWO days

We're never going to be able to keep spoilers within one thread.

-People need to use spoiler tags.

-Everyone needs to tread carefully from here on out to avoid them.

Best we can do at this point.

 

[Angamb]

could the spoilers topic be always on top of the page?

 

[marvelrobbins]

It all depends on whether they actually ARE erasing the series and copying Star Trek - and, if so, how they do it.

I don't think they would just copy Star Trek - that sounds a bit too obvious.

And if they are copying Star Trek, then in the same way the previous films still exist in their own timeline for people to watch and enjoy.

It's really hard to judge what they are doing without really knowing what they are doing. But Singer is usually pretty good at pulling things off in a believable way.

I'm NOT one of the bitter haters of X3 but even I have no problem with them creating a new timeline that gets the series back on track and leaves some or all of the existing films in another timeline.

If by end of film

Spoiler

wolverine's time travel mission Is successful and he wakes up In 2023 with no memory of much of films we know to find Xavier and Magneto working side by side at mansion opening up possiblty magneto never decame villain as he was In Trilogy and Cyclops and Jean are still alive now In 2023

then they would be In a Star Trek like situation.

I find it very strange that Bryan Singer would direct a film that could

Spoiler

erase both the first 2 X-Men films he did with the time travel mission

maybe there Is more to

Spoiler

ending of film that what BAMF was told.Maybe Magneto does indeed become villain and at some point reform and come to work with Xavier at mansion

That could also effect the possable FC3

Spoiler

If magneto never becomes a villain he could be big focus.The new wolverine if wolverine isnt In FC3

In a Trek like situation just like especilly after Into Darkness I call BS on
pre2009 Trek still mattering

Spoiler

If new timeline Is created In DOFP It's a similar thing.Yeah First Class and 1973 parts of DOFP still happened but the rest are gone

and my concerns are future X-men films

Spoiler

will do like trek films having characters show up much earlier than they did In trilogy and next wolverine film possibly doing some rewrites to pre 1973 established wolverine on film history

 

[Manic X]

If by end of film

Spoiler

wolverine's time travel mission Is successful and he wakes up In 2023 with no memory of much of films we know to find Xavier and Magneto working side by side at mansion opening up possiblty magneto never decame villain as he was In Trilogy and Cyclops and Jean are still alive now In 2023

then they would be In a Star Trek like situation.

I find it very strange that Bryan Singer would direct a film that could

Spoiler

erase both the first 2 X-Men films he did with the time travel mission

maybe there Is more to

Spoiler

ending of film that what BAMF was told.Maybe Magneto does indeed become villain and at some point reform and come to work with Xavier at mansion

That could also effect the possable FC3

Spoiler

If magneto never becomes a villain he could be big focus.The new wolverine if wolverine isnt In FC3

In a Trek like situation just like especilly after Into Darkness I call BS on
pre2009 Trek still mattering

Spoiler

If new timeline Is created In DOFP It's a similar thing.Yeah First Class and 1973 parts of DOFP still happened but the rest are gone

and my concerns are future X-men films

Spoiler

will do like trek films having characters show up much earlier than they did In trilogy and next wolverine film possibly doing some rewrites to pre 1973 established wolverine on film history

lmfao!

 

[GuestStar2004]

I find it very strange that Bryan Singer would direct a film that could

Spoiler

erase both the first 2 X-Men films he did with the time travel mission

maybe there Is more to

Spoiler

ending of film that what BAMF was told.Maybe Magneto does indeed become villain and at some point reform and come to work with Xavier at mansion

[/SPOILER]

his films count for DOFP after all they lead up to these events, infact the stuff with jean/phoenix,magneto and all of the mutants may be what finally tipped the boat and got the sentinels released leading to the dark future for mutants, so he is taking his films into account

you can't have the new timeline without the OT films progressing to it, the new timeline came about because of the terrible events that accured from the trilogy films

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

his films count for DOFP after all they lead up to these events, infact the stuff with jean/phoenix,magneto and all of the mutants may be what finally tipped the boat and got the sentinels released leading to the dark future for mutants, so he is taking his films into account

you can't have the new timeline without the OT films progressing to it, the new timeline came about because of the terrible events that accured from the trilogy films

No. DOFP came about cuz Trask created Sentinels in 1973. absolutely nothing to do with the main trilogy. outside of using the cast the main trilogy is not being taken into consideration at all for this movie and doesn't need to exist.

This is a stand alone / First Class sequel that is completely disregarding all movies but First Class.

the events of the main trilogy have absolutely no bearing or influence on the events of this movie

 

[GuestStar2004]

No. DOFP came about cuz Trask created Sentinels in 1973. absolutely nothing to do with the main trilogy. outside of using the cast the main trilogy is not being taken into consideration at all for this movie and doesn't need to exist.

there is bound to be an explanation why in the recent years after X3 were they released and have taken over and mutant camps were built and i wouldn't be surprised if it was because the events of X3 and the cure failing

it will be something to do with X3 i bet

 

[Samarus]

A soft reboot, like one explained in the OP would be brilliant and i think this movie is going to do that.
If this movie is a huge success and i hope it'll be one, the next movie has to be a good jump-on-point to finally make the X-Men the second big ongoing CBM-franchise. A movie after a "soft" reboot would fit this needs very good.
If this movie is a big flop, there is no other way as to reboot the franchise anyway. With a soft reboot the old movies we like would at least still be canon.
So i think this movie as a soft reboot is a very good idea. They can still go on with both casts in different movies, the only new thing is, the new movies will be a good jump on point, because everyone has to discover the new 'world'.

 

[marvelrobbins]

No. DOFP came about cuz Trask created Sentinels in 1973. absolutely nothing to do with the main trilogy. outside of using the cast the main trilogy is not being taken into consideration at all for this movie and doesn't need to exist.

This is a stand alone / First Class sequel that is completely disregarding all movies but First Class.

the events of the main trilogy have absolutely no bearing or influence on the events of this movie

I don't disagree with what your saying.The future of DOFP can be viewed as possable future that came about because of assassination Mystique carried
out.Just like the original comic version was a possable future at time it was published It was presented as possable future.Later to bring In rachel Summers Into present it was retconned Into being an Alternate universe where Jean never become phoenix.She and CYclops got married and had Rachel,and Mastermind set off an atomic bomb which killed Jean.Xavier and Moira Mactaggert were originally killed by brotherhood with Kelly but that was later ignored entirely so Xavier could be killed by soldiers attacking mansion as part of rachel's back story.

There are questions already about Origins

Spoiler

Singer has said the future Is 2023 ten years after last stand.That dates Trilogy as 2012/2013.Susposilly Jean Is 30 In Last stand.That means Cyclops and Storm are around that age too.But origins mostly takes place In 1970's.Wolverine and Sabretooth In Origins were recruited by Stryker during vietnam war yet there are hints In DOFP's 1973 setting wolverine may not have encounted Stryker yet

It's also possable from information we have DOFP

Spoiler

Starts with introducing new characters at temple and the jet with OT characters sans Rogue arrives at temple and the time travel scheme Is discussed and launched