Comics The Official O.M.I.T. thread...

[Donald Thomas]

Aloha,
Well I guess once you become EIC you forget things. So this means neither Stan Lee nor JoeQ can be relied upon to remember things. Oh well. MJ standing up Peter or Peter standing up MJ. It would appear that the marriage was not going to happen in the comics.The spectre of Spider-Man is always supposed to be a significant part of why Peter lives the way he does.
Spidey rules

 

[Miken Ayers]

Aloha,
Well I guess once you become EIC you forget things. So this means neither Stan Lee nor JoeQ can be relied upon to remember things. Oh well. MJ standing up Peter or Peter standing up MJ. It would appear that the marriage was not going to happen in the comics.The spectre of Spider-Man is always supposed to be a significant part of why Peter lives the way he does.
Spidey rules

So anyone anti marriage needs to lay the blame on Jim Shooter.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

To throw a monkey wrench into all this, I thought back in the day I heard Stan Lee decided to marry Pete & MJ in the strip because he found out they were getting married in the comic.

But anyway, as Miken Ayers mentions in quoting Ron Frenz, I could see them heading toward a wedding and it did not "come out of the blue editorial mandate" as others have insisted.

OMD comes off waaay more like an editorial mandate.

 

[mre]

Aloha,
Well I guess once you become EIC you forget things. So this means neither Stan Lee nor JoeQ can be relied upon to remember things. Oh well. MJ standing up Peter or Peter standing up MJ. It would appear that the marriage was not going to happen in the comics.The spectre of Spider-Man is always supposed to be a significant part of why Peter lives the way he does.
Spidey rules

I think it's understandable to forget things like this, when 100% focus on just one comic book is not at all what your job entails as a EIC.
I can barely remember decisions I made last month at work, and an EIC does way more than what I do.

 

[SpideyInATree]

To throw a monkey wrench into all this, I thought back in the day I heard Stan Lee decided to marry Pete & MJ in the strip because he found out they were getting married in the comic.

But anyway, as Miken Ayers mentions in quoting Ron Frenz, I could see them heading toward a wedding and it did not "come out of the blue editorial mandate" as others have insisted.

OMD comes off waaay more like an editorial mandate.

When you go back and you read the comics leading up to the marriage of Peter and Mary Jane it's a very out of the blue thing. They were in a very deep relationship and Peter did propose to her, which she declined. Then suddenly they are tying the knot.

When you go back and read the the issues leading up to One More Day it's very out of the blue that they make a deal with Mephisto. I think the biggest mistake that Quesada made was bringing Mephisto into the equation. Honestly, you place any Marvel villain in that equation it still is pretty much the same thing.

Both are very strange editorial decisions that seriously impacted the future of the character, for better or worse depending on your view of things.

It certainly is a fact that even after the marriage a lot of Spider-Man writers disliked writing the marriage and they did figure out ways to get out the marriage. Hence...the Clone Saga. Bring in a clone of Peter Parker and have him take Pete's place. The mistake that they made was saying that Ben Reilly was the one true Spider-Man. In hindsight...if they would have not done that and let Peter and MJ go live happily ever after with the baby...it could have been different. However, I think that regardless fandom would have pitched a fit. Spider-Man fandom loves pitching fits.

Then Howard Mackie blows up an airplane that Mary Jane is in and, apparently, she dies? I really wasn't reading the comics at this time but I remember reading that there were plans that MJ was supposed to have died in the plane crash. Then they brought her back in but her and Peter were having problems and such? I had just jumped back on Spider-Man when JMS took over and Peter was trying to get back with her, etc.

They had attempted to get rid of her previously to this. Well, I wouldn't say get rid of her but to have a "single" Spider-Man. You read the Life of Reilly and it's stated right there by Tom Defalco that the Clone Saga was mainly a vehicle to get back to a single Spider-Man.

Quesada figured out a way to get rid of it and he went for it. Making a deal with Mephisto is not really the way that it should have been done, that's something that I'll whole heartedly agree with. However, I've enjoyed the outcome of Brand New Day. The stories have been a blast and I've enjoyed the direction very much thus far. OMIT is about two years too late, in my opinion, but it's not as bad as a lot of people are making it out to be. There are still two parts left of it before final judgements can really be made on it. Maybe the next two issues will make me spit on the direction of it all myself. You never know.

I don't want to throw a monkey wrench in anything but lets face it...this isn't the first attempt at trying to bring in a single Spider-Man. It's just that this time Marvel has an editor in chief with giant hairy man balls to stick with the decision.

People threw a fit about the Clone Saga and they reversed it. People threw a fit about the Mary Jane airplane explosion. Even though I wasn't reading I do remember reading on websites that there were petitions for not killing Mary Jane. So, apparently they reversed it. Maybe the complaints aren't being heard as loudly as they were before this. Maybe a lot of posters around here are right and Quesada is the ultimate *****e bag they say he is and he just doesn't give a crap.

The fact remains that the marriage isn't coming back anytime soon. Single, swinging Peter Parker is here to stay. Maybe ten to fifteen years down the road a new editor in chief who was a die hard fan of a married Spider-man will bring it back. For now, it's here.

 

[Themanofbat]

To throw a monkey wrench into all this, I thought back in the day I heard Stan Lee decided to marry Pete & MJ in the strip because he found out they were getting married in the comic.

But anyway, as Miken Ayers mentions in quoting Ron Frenz, I could see them heading toward a wedding and it did not "come out of the blue editorial mandate" as others have insisted.

OMD comes off waaay more like an editorial mandate.

Both DeFalco & Frenz were quoted as saying that once MJ revealed that she knew Peter's secret, they were working their way to a relationship and a wedding... a wedding where MJ was going to stand Peter up at the altar...

Whether the wedding was Stan's idea or he had heard of Marvel's plans and jumped the gun for the story on his strip is irrelevant, because once he announced he was going to do it, Shooter decided to go ahead with it so that both stories happened around the same time for all the publicity it could garner...

Had Stan not gone ahead with the strip wedding, the marriage would have never happened because of DeFalco's plan to have MJ leave Peter hanging...

 

[Spider-Gnome]

When you go back and you read the comics leading up to the marriage of Peter and Mary Jane it's a very out of the blue thing. They were in a very deep relationship and Peter did propose to her, which she declined. Then suddenly they are tying the knot.

Seriously? This sounds like you read Spider-Man up through 1978, stopped, and then picked it up again in 1987.

Both DeFalco & Frenz were quoted as saying that once MJ revealed that she knew Peter's secret, they were working their way to a relationship and a wedding... a wedding where MJ was going to stand Peter up at the altar...

Whether the wedding was Stan's idea or he had heard of Marvel's plans and jumped the gun for the story on his strip is irrelevant, because once he announced he was going to do it, Shooter decided to go ahead with it so that both stories happened around the same time for all the publicity it could garner...

Had Stan not gone ahead with the strip wedding, the marriage would have never happened because of DeFalco's plan to have MJ leave Peter hanging...

Granted. But to get Pete to the altar, they were laying the groundwork in Pete & MJ's relationship. So it wasn't out of the blue, which was my original point.

And I gotta stop quoting you before fifthfiend gets mad again.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Seriously? This sounds like you read Spider-Man up through 1978, stopped, and then picked it up again in 1987.

Nope. I own the 40 years of Spider-Man DVD Rom's with all the issues and I actually own from issue # 150 to current. I definitely have read the entire saga. The marriage was very out of the blue according to the continuity of the story at the time.

 

[Themanofbat]

Granted. But to get Pete to the altar, they were laying the groundwork in Pete & MJ's relationship. So it wasn't out of the blue, which was my original point.

But the groundwork was cut short... in fact, there was barely a moment for any groundwork to be laid when they announced the marriage...

I suspect that they were leading up to an ASM #350 marriage/stood up affair... but they didn't have the time when Shooter decided to give it a go in 1987.

 

[Themanofbat]

And I gotta stop quoting you before fifthfiend gets mad again.

He's a dork who thinks he knows better than all of us... ignore him.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Again, I didn't see the proposal out of the blue, and I don't want to go over the whole relationship again that really got started in the mid-70's (see my avatar).

But, what I will agree is that they rushed the wedding right after MJ accepts the proposal. There should have been an engaged period, which could drag on a will they won't they, when will they set a date type thing, which easily could have been five years. The Annual seemed very rushed and I never really liked it (as OMIT served to remind me).

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Dear god...
Yeah, you can so totally tell they they are making adjustments to the story as the issues go on...
Thats the reason for the delays...

I hated this issue... nothing happens... nothing revealed, nothing solved...
epic fail...

 

[Miken Ayers]

Dear god...
Yeah, you can so totally tell they they are making adjustments to the story as the issues go on...
Thats the reason for the delays...

I hated this issue... nothing happens... nothing revealed, nothing solved...
epic fail...

Joe Quesada dug himself so deep this issue, he hit a sewage pipe then tried to plug it with his tongue.

 

[Themanofbat]

I thought this issue was the best one of the three... probably due to more consistant artwork...

And I would like to know wxactly "where" you can tell that they are making "adjustments"... please tell me where you saw the original script and they have now changed it...

 

[Themanofbat]

I wrote to Marvel again about the use of the name "Firzgerald" again... and I got a reply from Tom Brevoort...

Mike,

There’s nothing in OMIT that talks about why that particular alias was used, so it made more sense to keep the name the way it had been, rather than to change it and just confuse everybody who compared this story to OMD/Back In Black.

Tom B

While I hated to see the name "still there", I guess it makes sense to reuse it to avoid confusion to both the readers of BnB & OMIT...

 

[stillanerd]

Well, part three of Joe Quesada and Paolo Rivera's One Moment in Time is here after some delay, so it's time once again to go into what I thought about this particular issue of the Amazing Spider-Man:

Spoiler

In terms of art, it’s the same as before--Quesada inconsistent style with disproportionate body builds and facial structures for Peter and MJ, and Paolo Rivera’s wonderfully detailed, shaded, and yet elegantly simple illustrations. This time around, Rivera does the majority of the issue and, as a result, he really gets a chance to shine. The scene with Spider-Man swinging across the city with a barely-conscious Mary Jane, for example, is just such a beautifully realized image with expresses both Peter’s love for MJ and the sense of urgency he feels.

As for the story, this particular chapter is actually better this time around. The big advantage Joe Quesada has going for him here is that he’s working within the unexplored timeframe between the end of One More Day and the start of Brand New Day as opposed to trying to alter established continuity. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the story itself is great. Part of it comes from the fact that the entire issue is pretty much Mary Jane being chased and fending off Eddie Muerte--the same fat crook who caused Peter to miss his own wedding in part 1 (although he doesn’t use cinder blocks to knock out MJ in this issue). While this would have been just fine immediately following Back in Black or One More Day, because the story is told in flashback via Peter and MJ’s conversation, there isn’t much in the way of terror or suspense for MJ’s predicament. Instead, it just feels as though pages are being filled just to get from the point A of Aunt May being saved to the revelation for who might be responsible for restoring Peter’s secret identity. Not to say it didn’t provide some great moments, such as MJ pointing out to her would be attacker the sign said “Beware of DOGS” and Spidey unmasking Eddie in a way that echoes his unmasking the burglar who shot Uncle Ben.

There are a few additional little nitpicks, as well. The doctor at the hospital telling Peter that his Aunt May’s recovery is due to the power of love (I wonder if Huey Lewis was playing in the background while he said that) was incredibly cornball and makes the scene in which Peter revived Aunt May with CPR all the more ridiculous.

The Kingpin being Eddie the thug’s benefactor from part 1 (what is it with fat guys being the villains in this story? Is it because they‘re supposed to be “heavies?”) and ordering the hit on MJ and her aunt Anna is logical, but doesn’t particularly work as a follow-up to the story which chronologically is supposed to have taken place before this one, Back in Black. In that arc, Peter beat the Kingpin within an inch of his life and humbled him before a group of prisoners--which this story flat out states--and threatened that if he ever went after Peter’s family again, he’d come back and kill him. Yet not only is the Kingpin still deciding to go after Peter’s his loved ones, he doesn’t even look the least bit injured. Perhaps allowances can be made for with regards to the Kingpin, considering how ruthless and vindictive he can be; after all, just look at how he’s dealt with Daredevil over the years. But just how much time did pass between Back in Black and this story anyway?

Likewise, after Spidey saves MJ, we also get an interior monologue and angst over how much of a mistake it was for him to reveal his true identity to the entire world, saying how it’s just put all of his family and loved ones in danger and that, as Peter finally acknowledges, he has no one to blame but himself. All this serves to do is highlight what an absolutely forced, contrived, and out-of-character move it was for Peter to reveal he was Spider-Man during Civil War in first place, as pretty much anyone who read Spider-Man--and even those who didn’t--figured out what Peter did was just plain dumb long before now. So when Peter does turn for help in order to fix things, what should have come across as desperation for trying to protect the woman he loves makes him seem pathetic instead.

And that, of course, gets us to the big revelation in this issue in who Peter goes to for help to restore his secret identity--Doctor Strange. Now granted, it would make all the sense in the world that, being how Strange was the Sorcerer Supreme during this time, he certainly would be capable of crafting a spell to restore Spider-Man’s secret identity. But considering how Peter went to him before for help in saving Aunt May during One More Day--which is explicitly stated as occurring just hours before--it comes across as redundant. Quesada attempts to add an additional twist by also revealing Dr. Strange recruited the help of Tony Stark, a.k.a. Iron Man, and Reed Richards for help as well, citing they were both responsible for Peter’s current predicament in their own way. But one cannot help wonder why Dr. Strange--one of the world’s most powerful magic users--is not only incapable of casting the “memory wipe” spell by himself, but has to go and get help from Stark and Richards, both of whom are scientists and don‘t even use magic? Then again, this is the same Dr. Strange who, according to this story, is capable of casting a powerful spell to cure Mary Jane of her injuries yet is incapable of doing the same thing for Aunt May.

Still, I would have to say that out of all the part of One Moment in Time thus far, this was definitely the better of them. Not that it’s really saying a whole lot at this point.

http://stillanerd.livejournal.com/2122.html

 

[iloveclones]

^ I would guess that Strange will do the general mind wiping, while his fellow Illuminatii will be responsible for the physical evidence (i.e. wiping the internets, newspapers)

 

[iloveclones]

^ I would further guess that I was the victim of the Dreaded Double Post!

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

i will admit the story in this issue was better, but this whole thing still seems like back peddling. the reasons are still stupid no matter how you dress it up

 

[Themanofbat]

Well, part three of Joe Quesada and Paolo Rivera's One Moment in Time is here after some delay, so it's time once again to go into what I thought about this particular issue of the Amazing Spider-Man:

Spoiler

In terms of art, it’s the same as before--Quesada inconsistent style with disproportionate body builds and facial structures for Peter and MJ, and Paolo Rivera’s wonderfully detailed, shaded, and yet elegantly simple illustrations. This time around, Rivera does the majority of the issue and, as a result, he really gets a chance to shine. The scene with Spider-Man swinging across the city with a barely-conscious Mary Jane, for example, is just such a beautifully realized image with expresses both Peter’s love for MJ and the sense of urgency he feels.

As for the story, this particular chapter is actually better this time around. The big advantage Joe Quesada has going for him here is that he’s working within the unexplored timeframe between the end of One More Day and the start of Brand New Day as opposed to trying to alter established continuity. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the story itself is great. Part of it comes from the fact that the entire issue is pretty much Mary Jane being chased and fending off Eddie Muerte--the same fat crook who caused Peter to miss his own wedding in part 1 (although he doesn’t use cinder blocks to knock out MJ in this issue). While this would have been just fine immediately following Back in Black or One More Day, because the story is told in flashback via Peter and MJ’s conversation, there isn’t much in the way of terror or suspense for MJ’s predicament. Instead, it just feels as though pages are being filled just to get from the point A of Aunt May being saved to the revelation for who might be responsible for restoring Peter’s secret identity. Not to say it didn’t provide some great moments, such as MJ pointing out to her would be attacker the sign said “Beware of DOGS” and Spidey unmasking Eddie in a way that echoes his unmasking the burglar who shot Uncle Ben.

There are a few additional little nitpicks, as well. The doctor at the hospital telling Peter that his Aunt May’s recovery is due to the power of love (I wonder if Huey Lewis was playing in the background while he said that) was incredibly cornball and makes the scene in which Peter revived Aunt May with CPR all the more ridiculous.

The Kingpin being Eddie the thug’s benefactor from part 1 (what is it with fat guys being the villains in this story? Is it because they‘re supposed to be “heavies?”) and ordering the hit on MJ and her aunt Anna is logical, but doesn’t particularly work as a follow-up to the story which chronologically is supposed to have taken place before this one, Back in Black. In that arc, Peter beat the Kingpin within an inch of his life and humbled him before a group of prisoners--which this story flat out states--and threatened that if he ever went after Peter’s family again, he’d come back and kill him. Yet not only is the Kingpin still deciding to go after Peter’s his loved ones, he doesn’t even look the least bit injured. Perhaps allowances can be made for with regards to the Kingpin, considering how ruthless and vindictive he can be; after all, just look at how he’s dealt with Daredevil over the years. But just how much time did pass between Back in Black and this story anyway?

Likewise, after Spidey saves MJ, we also get an interior monologue and angst over how much of a mistake it was for him to reveal his true identity to the entire world, saying how it’s just put all of his family and loved ones in danger and that, as Peter finally acknowledges, he has no one to blame but himself. All this serves to do is highlight what an absolutely forced, contrived, and out-of-character move it was for Peter to reveal he was Spider-Man during Civil War in first place, as pretty much anyone who read Spider-Man--and even those who didn’t--figured out what Peter did was just plain dumb long before now. So when Peter does turn for help in order to fix things, what should have come across as desperation for trying to protect the woman he loves makes him seem pathetic instead.

And that, of course, gets us to the big revelation in this issue in who Peter goes to for help to restore his secret identity--Doctor Strange. Now granted, it would make all the sense in the world that, being how Strange was the Sorcerer Supreme during this time, he certainly would be capable of crafting a spell to restore Spider-Man’s secret identity. But considering how Peter went to him before for help in saving Aunt May during One More Day--which is explicitly stated as occurring just hours before--it comes across as redundant. Quesada attempts to add an additional twist by also revealing Dr. Strange recruited the help of Tony Stark, a.k.a. Iron Man, and Reed Richards for help as well, citing they were both responsible for Peter’s current predicament in their own way. But one cannot help wonder why Dr. Strange--one of the world’s most powerful magic users--is not only incapable of casting the “memory wipe” spell by himself, but has to go and get help from Stark and Richards, both of whom are scientists and don‘t even use magic? Then again, this is the same Dr. Strange who, according to this story, is capable of casting a powerful spell to cure Mary Jane of her injuries yet is incapable of doing the same thing for Aunt May.

Still, I would have to say that out of all the part of One Moment in Time thus far, this was definitely the better of them. Not that it’s really saying a whole lot at this point.

http://stillanerd.livejournal.com/2122.html

Mary Jane isn't as bad off as May was... in fact, he just gives her a simple healing spell to ward off the migraine that she's going to get... Aunt May was a different bottle of wax...

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

the gun went off, and from that distance for him to miss he must be bloody blind

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I enjoyed this issue better than the previous two as well. The main reason is the previous issues tried to hamfist into continuity. As for this issue:

One of the reasons (of which I had many) with OMD was it was poor story telling. You had a situation set-up by Civil War and Back in Black and it was never resolved. It was Marvel saying, oh skip over the ending and everything is fine now (by the way, Pete and MJ never got married). We are now getting a resolution to that situation.

Agree, that the Kingpin would feel the need to punish Spider-Man for the humiliation he suffered. He would probably have a plan when Spider-Man returns to kill him, providing he feels Spider-Man has the capacity to kill.

It is odd that Dr. Strange could heal MJ and wipe out everyone's knowledge of Pete's id, but couldn't help one bullet wound to Aunt May.

As far as going to Stark & Richards, I thought, as part of the Illuminati (whatever it's called) he was asking permission, since a mind wipe of the entire planet would constitute a violation on everybody on the planet. But iloveclones had a good idea for Stark & Reed's part in remasking Pete.

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Technically, if Pete never went and joined the Anti-Reg forces, none of this would have happened either.
Also, the reasons for him turning against Stark were practically non-existant.

 

[Themanofbat]

Technically, if Pete never went and joined the Anti-Reg forces, none of this would have happened either.
Also, the reasons for him turning against Stark were practically non-existant.

Are you nuts???

When Tony took Peter to Prison 42 in the Negative Zone and told him that the heroes that never register can stay here until they do decide to register, and it was ok to do so because they weren't on US soil, thereby making their "rights" as people invalid, Peter took great offense to that and started looking at Tony somehwat differently... this all happened after he revealed his identity....

 

[iloveclones]

It does make you wonder why Mephistopheles didn't just have Pete trip on the way to the microphone, making him think, "Maybe this wasn't such a good idea..." And then a fat sound tech falls on top of him. Problem solved. Then, the reason they were hanging out with the Avengers is because Pete got a super groovy Job with Tony Stark. And they were on the run because Tony became a huge *****e bag (you don't even have to change anything to fit that in.) If only JQ had called me first...