The Dark Knight The Official Plot holes thread.

[MaximumSpider]

First let me say this is not a Dark Knight bashing thread. But I didn't notice anyone talking about the plot wholes that I keep thinking about. These were evident but it still didn't stop the movie from being good as hell

1. Batman showing up in places of danger he should know nothing about.

The first time this happened was when Harvey kidnapped jokers thug after the attempted assasination of the mayor. Harvey takes him to an abandoned wharehouse to interogate while batman interogates Maroni by throwing him off the roof. Then suddenly Batman shows up to stop harvey's interogation. How the hell did he know where harvey was because he sure didn't tell anyone even rachel.

It happens again at the end of the film one minute batman has joker hanging upside down, then he shows up at the ware house were Rachel was killed, not even knowing Gordon was there or that Two face would be there. (Granted he may have just been checking the place of Rachels death or he may have used the sonar if so they didn't make it clear)

2. Did batman really have to take the fall for harvey? Really they could have just blamed the joker for harvs killings. After I thought about it because it made the movie cooler because I realized that this is the first superhero movie where the villan actually won. The joker corrupted harvey, and made the public believe batman broke his one rule, essentially corrupting batman too. He won so bad that the good guys had to essentially lie and pretend it didn't happen.

there is actually more but I'm tired of typing

 

[Anjow1060]

For me:

At the party - how did Bruce find out that Joker was coming for Harvey? That always bugged me.

To answer yours = I assumed Maroni was dropped in a nearby alley and Batman heard the gun shot and went to investigate, but that's just what I guessed.

As far as the end goes = Lucious was monitoring all the cell phones. If he could use that to pin point joker, he could use it for anyone else. Gordon told the cops to create a perimeter. Lucius most likely intercepted this chatter and passed it on to Bats.

- Jow

 

[starvingwriter]

Did Maroni break his legs when Batman threw him off the building? I thought he did. I only ask because you see Maroni getting into the car with Two-face later and I don't recall crutches, or even a walking cane.

Maybe he's a fast healer.

 

[Anita18]

First let me say this is not a Dark Knight bashing thread. But I didn't notice anyone talking about the plot wholes that I keep thinking about. These were evident but it still didn't stop the movie from being good as hell

1. Batman showing up in places of danger he should know nothing about.

The first time this happened was when Harvey kidnapped jokers thug after the attempted assasination of the mayor. Harvey takes him to an abandoned wharehouse to interogate while batman interogates Maroni by throwing him off the roof. Then suddenly Batman shows up to stop harvey's interogation. How the hell did he know where harvey was because he sure didn't tell anyone even rachel.

It happens again at the end of the film one minute batman has joker hanging upside down, then he shows up at the ware house were Rachel was killed, not even knowing Gordon was there or that Two face would be there. (Granted he may have just been checking the place of Rachels death or he may have used the sonar if so they didn't make it clear)

2. Did batman really have to take the fall for harvey? Really they could have just blamed the joker for harvs killings. After I thought about it because it made the movie cooler because I realized that this is the first superhero movie where the villan actually won. The joker corrupted harvey, and made the public believe batman broke his one rule, essentially corrupting batman too. He won so bad that the good guys had to essentially lie and pretend it didn't happen.

there is actually more but I'm tired of typing

Batman knows all!

Logically, he could have followed tire tracks to find where they were.

And the entire SWAT team showed up at that building where Harvey took Gordon's family, so Batman could have easily just followed the SWAT team. The SWAT saw Gordon leave, so they might have been discussing it on the way over.

We have another thread for your second question:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=307834

Thematically, yes, I think it needed to happen. How they would have done it, they don't get a chance to show because the movie ends.


The film also doesn't show you everything. It only shows you the parts that further the story and character arcs and assumes you can figure out the rest. Some people can fill in the holes, some people can't, as proven by the "Ask a Question" thread. Some folks are just not good at following plots, and even though it's not an indicator of your intelligence (although sometimes I change my mind, seeing what kind of questions people ask there ) I don't think a director should cater to the lowest common denominator. They explain every choice a character makes in the film, and they often mention them several times.

Like, there's no character arc or story in a scene that shows Joker leaving Bruce's penthouse. That's just him getting from point A to point B. In the novel, he makes an observation that MIGHT further the story...if they hadn't mentioned it again in a later scene. So the "party-leaving" scene was cut, if it ever existed at all (we don't know).



I've been posting this is several places, but it probably belongs here because it deals with TDK plot holes. Hollywood screenwriter Todd Alcott:

For me, I'm still a little stunned, and intimidated, by The Dark Knight's screenplay. Plot is one of the hardest things to manufacture, and as I say, this movie has more plot than any five given movies. It's a relentless, non-stop plot machine, and it handles all of it while still delivering the stunts, action and spectacle expected from the genre. Sometimes it does both at the same time. I'm comfortably accustomed to sitting down in a movie and knowing my way around a narrative, and the idea that a so-called "superhero movie" would have one so complex, compact and intense, challenging and troubling that I give up keeping track, even on a second viewing, is, frankly, kind of blisteringly fantastic.

My wife is something of a plot-nazi. Often, we go see some well-turned-out spectacle or other and I sit through the whole thing with a big goofy grin on my face, wondering at all the color and texture, and afterward I'll turn to my wife and say "Well, what did you think?" and regardless of whatever pleasures the movie has to offer, she'll zero in on one fault in the plot that ruins the entire narrative and the movie's pleasures will immediately evaporate. For The Dark Knight, she had exactly one question on the way back to the parking garage. That question answered (it regarded how the Joker was financing his operation), she declared that the plot was air-tight. So you can take that as a strong recommendation: Todd Alcott's wife finds the plot of The Dark Knight air-tight.

http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/205666.html

 

[Anita18]

Did Maroni break his legs when Batman threw him off the building? I thought he did. I only ask because you see Maroni getting into the car with Two-face later and I don't recall crutches, or even a walking cane.

Maybe he's a fast healer.

He is totally, totally using a cane. He even does a little smug flippy-thing with it before he gets in the car.

 

[Anita18]

For me:

At the party - how did Bruce find out that Joker was coming for Harvey? That always bugged me.

You don't think Bruce has surveillance on the one elevator going up to his penthouse?

He probably also has surveillance at MCU, but the elevator surveillance makes the most sense.

 

[CaptainClown]

wouldn't this go in the TDK questions thread.

 

[DoesItDepressU]

For me:

At the party - how did Bruce find out that Joker was coming for Harvey? That always bugged me.

To answer yours = I assumed Maroni was dropped in a nearby alley and Batman heard the gun shot and went to investigate, but that's just what I guessed.

As far as the end goes = Lucious was monitoring all the cell phones. If he could use that to pin point joker, he could use it for anyone else. Gordon told the cops to create a perimeter. Lucius most likely intercepted this chatter and passed it on to Bats.

- Jow

I made the conclusion that Wayne had equipment in the penthouse that monitored police channels and he heard the report that Joker was targeting Dent, the judge, and Loeb and then acted on it by choking out Dent. Very american psycho moment.

 

[Anita18]

wouldn't this go in the TDK questions thread.

Only if they're not officially plot holes and people just missed things (like the cane...).

With the rate that I'm answering these questions, I think the threads should be merged.

The only "plot hole" I can think of is how Gordon got away with faking his death, but I've come to the conclusion that he worked with Batman on it, and they concocted something up DKR-style.

 

[CaptainClown]

Only if they're not officially plot holes and people just missed things (like the cane...).

With the rate that I'm answering these questions, I think the threads should be merged.

The only "plot hole" I can think of is how Gordon got away with faking his death, but I've come to the conclusion that he worked with Batman on it, and they concocted something up DKR-style.

Gordon might have actually been shot but not a fatal wound. Gordon goes to the hospital, Batman shows up and they talk a little blah blah. They fake Gordons death, Dent and Gordon talk a little to orchestrate their Harvey is Batman scheme.(especially after Harvey finds out about Batmans plan)

 

[MaximumSpider]

You don't think Bruce has surveillance on the one elevator going up to his penthouse?

He probably also has surveillance at MCU, but the elevator surveillance makes the most sense.

I was going to ask about this also but it does make sense that bruce has hidden cameras u the ass in his own place. He could have just told harvey to hide instead of breaking his neck though.

 

[Anita18]

Gordon might have actually been shot but not a fatal wound. Gordon goes to the hospital, Batman shows up and they talk a little blah blah. They fake Gordons death, Dent and Gordon talk a little to orchestrate their Harvey is Batman scheme.(especially after Harvey finds out about Batmans plan)

I don't think Dent knew, which is why he's so surprised to see him after the Slaughter truck/Batpod chase and says, "Talk about playing your cards close to your chest!" He only figured that being transported would bring Joker (and thus Batman) out.

And one of the cops examines Gordon at the scene and shakes his head. He's even the guy who goes to Barbara with the news. I don't think cops are THAT good at acting.

 

[CaptainClown]

I was going to ask about this also but it does make sense that bruce has hidden cameras u the ass in his own place. He could have just told harvey to hide instead of breaking his neck though.

Harvey is a bit stubborn. He would not give up the chance to protect Rachel. Bruce knows this and decides to skip trying to convince him and just knock him out.

 

[Anita18]

I was going to ask about this also but it does make sense that bruce has hidden cameras u the ass in his own place. He could have just told harvey to hide instead of breaking his neck though.

If he broke his neck, Harvey would be dead.

And seeing how Rachel didn't follow orders, Harvey would highly unlikely to as well. He punches someone on the witness stand right after an attempt on his life. In the virals, he even willingly walks into a hostage situation to mediate. This guy is a hot-head.

 

[Batman137]

Hers a plot hole:How did gordon know dent killed 5 people? Hell, he thought he was in the building with the hostages.

 

[CaptainClown]

I don't think Dent knew, which is why he's so surprised to see him after the Slaughter truck/Batpod chase and says, "Talk about playing your cards close to your chest!" He only figured that being transported would bring Joker (and thus Batman) out.

And one of the cops examines Gordon at the scene and shakes his head. He's even the guy who goes to Barbara with the news. I don't think cops are THAT good at acting.

Then Gordon and Batman orchestrated this whole scheme and Gordon was going to protect whoever was going to turn themselves in as batman. If it was Bruce then Gordon would be protecting Bruce. The man could have been shaking his like "oh damn this is fatal" send Gordon to the doctors Gordon says "tell my men I am dead i have a plan blah blah" The police man believes it yay.

 

[Anita18]

Hers a plot hole:How did gordon know dent killed 5 people? Hell, he thought he was in the building with the hostages.

Again, we don't see anything. There were probably a few hours between the hostage situation and Dent killing Maroni (which was the last thing we saw him do before), judging from the daylight.

Gordon's a very busy man - head of the MCU. And there are a lot of major crimes in the week that this film takes place.

Then Gordon and Batman orchestrated this whole scheme and Gordon was going to protect whoever was going to turn themselves in as batman. If it was Bruce then Gordon would be protecting Bruce. The man could have been shaking his like "oh damn this is fatal" send Gordon to the doctors Gordon says "tell my men I am dead i have a plan blah blah" The police man believes it yay.

Yay!

 

[cabjvitu]

point one, batman was using the sonar, that gives to fox at the end all along, but he kept it to his chest
they always used cellphones, dent to call rachel, harvey again to call gordon.

 

[I Am The Knight]

First let me say this is not a Dark Knight bashing thread. But I didn't notice anyone talking about the plot wholes that I keep thinking about. These were evident but it still didn't stop the movie from being good as hell

1. Batman showing up in places of danger he should know nothing about.

The first time this happened was when Harvey kidnapped jokers thug after the attempted assasination of the mayor. Harvey takes him to an abandoned wharehouse to interogate while batman interogates Maroni by throwing him off the roof. Then suddenly Batman shows up to stop harvey's interogation. How the hell did he know where harvey was because he sure didn't tell anyone even rachel.

It happens again at the end of the film one minute batman has joker hanging upside down, then he shows up at the ware house were Rachel was killed, not even knowing Gordon was there or that Two face would be there. (Granted he may have just been checking the place of Rachels death or he may have used the sonar if so they didn't make it clear)

Batman is always at places he shouldn't be at. He shows up to save the day (or the schizo prisoner) just at the right time. It's always been like this. Comics, TV, movies.

 

[blues_ux]

how does batman show up at the party to save rachel without any of joker's gang noticing him? i mean, joker talks to rachel, than Batman appears and punches him, but why didnt the goons shoot at him before he hit joker?

 

[CaptainClown]

how does batman show up at the party to save rachel without any of joker's gang noticing him? i mean, joker talks to rachel, than Batman appears and punches him, but why didnt the goons shoot at him before he hit joker?

Those masks have just oh so terrible eye holes. If anything they were looking ahead and not where Batman came from. Trying to explain that would be like trying to explain how Batman gets out of the safe of the bank so quickly.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Did Maroni break his legs when Batman threw him off the building? I thought he did. I only ask because you see Maroni getting into the car with Two-face later and I don't recall crutches, or even a walking cane.

Maybe he's a fast healer.

Where were you? He was walking with a limp and a cane when he got into the car before Two-Face threatened him jeesh.

 

[JL Unlimited]

The first time this happened was when Harvey kidnapped jokers thug after the attempted assasination of the mayor. Harvey takes him to an abandoned wharehouse to interogate while batman interogates Maroni by throwing him off the roof. Then suddenly Batman shows up to stop harvey's interogation. How the hell did he know where harvey was because he sure didn't tell anyone even rachel.

Dent just got off the phone with Rachel before interrogating "Officer Rachel Dawes" so I'm assuming that he had already implemented his bat-sonar to look for Dent. And he WAS looking for Dent after talking to Maroni. He wanted Dent to call the press conference the next day.

It happens again at the end of the film one minute batman has joker hanging upside down, then he shows up at the ware house were Rachel was killed, not even knowing Gordon was there or that Two face would be there. (Granted he may have just been checking the place of Rachels death or he may have used the sonar if so they didn't make it clear)

He doesn't use his sonar. Gordon called in back-up to form a perimeter. Batman has the police scanner wired into his cowl. That's how he was able to meet Gordon and Ramirez at the apartment where the bodies of Harvey & Dent were found.

 

[jimslimbo]

i have a few

how could joker set up all thoses schemes with the bombs and things....and also how could he afford it?

How did no one notice the bombs on the ferrys before they left port

How did harvey survive the car crash if maroni(i think thats his name) died in the crash.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

There really werent that many plotholes in this film, compared to most comic book related films that usually have quite a few.