The Dark Knight Rises Questions about missing plot point, ect Thread.

[mrbrownie]

The deal is, While Bruce was in the Pit..he was thinking of the possiblities of what could happen. He had already fixed the auto-pilot before he was put into the Pit, however he didn't know if he would need to use it when the time came. Not letting Fox know about the auto-pilot was his way of "playing it close to the chest". If he failed saving Gotham, he didn't want to give anyone false hope that he could indeed save Gotham. It was purely a matter of Bruce hoping himself that it worked if that was what it came down to. Also, Bruce may have been thinking of a situtation where he himself could escape "The Batman" life.

He didn't want to tell anyone and wanted to drive the point home that there was no auto-pilot for self protection. Had Selina or Fox known that The Bat had auto-pilot, they would have had hope that he woudl be able to save himself...but if indeed he failed to save himself..he would have left them with lost-hope. Does that make sense? It was a matter of driving the idea that HE wasn't going to survive saving his city and allow himself room to escape "The Batman" and "Bruce Wayne". This was his way of saving himself and killing off "The Batman Bruce Wayne". This was it..this was his final outting as the Savior of Gotham by literally being the SAVIOR of Gotham.

Bruce wants to die...but not literally, but medaphoricly. If Fox knew he had auto-pilot..he would have figured out Bruce was alive and found him afterwards...ruining his great escape as Bruce Wayne/The Batman...because he would have had to explain personally his reasons. Not telling Selina/Fox at first was a way for him to buy time and get out. Sure, it's not the greatest thing a friend could do, but it was the only way he knew how to let Bruce/Batman die without giving the ones close to him false hope.

What if he didn't make it and died literally? Then what?

Yeah it came to me while watching it for the third time. Bruce was testing Lucius awareness of the auto-pilot status. And he said it as Batman to keep the charade that he would certainly die leaving no doubts. Pretty tight Bruce, pretty tight.

Thanks for your reply

 

[Anno_Domini]

Bane instantly turned into the mute henchman type once Talia revealed herself to Bruce.

Not at all. He obeyed Talia while she was still there, but once she left Bane told Batman that they both know Batman has to die right now until Catwoman saved Bruce.

That would actually save the movie for me from that monologuing stupid thing! Aside from that. They should have blown it up when they had the chance! Be it 15 mins before. Why wait after its ready?

I know you could say the right time to strike, but.... The right time would have been the time to get it done.

Anyways! Was bane pointing a shotgun to batmans head before selina kyle saved batman?

What do you mean? Pavel did say this about the reactor while they were all in the chamber and they couldn't have detonated it until it actually heats up. There was no stalling whatsoever. They had to heat up the fusion reactor to act like a nuclear bomb.

And yes, after Talia left with the rest of the guards, it was only Bane and Batman and Bane was going to shoot him with a shotgun; not caring about beating Batman anymore and just wanted to kill him.

 

[MiniBond]

how come stryver walks around free when he's obviously knocked out by selina in a place where cops go in force and where something obviously illegal happened ?

 

[Victarion]

I got one: Was Catwoman allied with Bane behind Dagget's back? Obviously both worked for him, and Bruce asked Catwoman to lead him to Bane.

 

[BestGirl]

how come stryver walks around free when he's obviously knocked out by selina in a place where cops go in force and where something obviously illegal happened ?

Maybe Bane's men got him out of there.

I got one: Was Catwoman allied with Bane behind Dagget's back? Obviously both worked for him, and Bruce asked Catwoman to lead him to Bane.

I think he asked her to lead him to Bane because he knew she had underworld connections and might know where he is.

I got a couple of questions:

1. Why didn't Bruce arrange to have Miranda saved when he got Catwoman to bust him and Lucius out?

2. Why did he tell Catwoman at the end there was no autopilot on the Bat when there clearly was?

3. Why was Bane surprised to find out Batman was back in Gotham? Talia had seen Bruce earlier that day, so why didn't she let Bane in on that fact?

 

[Victarion]

@ 1.) He may have written her off as dead. If I recall correctly, Bane had Miranda brought to him after their trial in Crane's court.

 

[BestGirl]

@ 1.) He may have written her off as dead. If I recall correctly, Bane had Miranda brought to him after their trial in Crane's court.

But he saw her. She was right next to him when he was rescuing Lucius. He apologized or not being able to bring her with him.

 

[Vince]

The thing I noticed, is alot of the plot points people are mentioning...were mentioned however briefly in the other films.

 

[Mace Dolex]

I was right about the blood transfusion that Bane does to Dr. Pavel to thwart off the airplane crash investigation, I even mentioned about it in another thread.

 

[HopeOfTheFuture]

3. Why was Bane surprised to find out Batman was back in Gotham? Talia had seen Bruce earlier that day, so why didn't she let Bane in on that fact?

I also have a problem with this. There's something not good with the order of the Miranda/Talia scenes at the end; http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=23959015






What do you think about Selina Kyle and leading Batman to Bane in order not to get killed?

Originally Posted by The_Fire_Rises:
"After Selina sells Bruce's fingerprints to Dagget, Dagget's men try to kill her because they didn't want any loose ends. Bane was "working" for Dagget at the time and Selina was deathly afraid that Dagget would send Bane and his thugs after her to kill her. The way I understood her betrayal of Batman was that she made a deal with Bane to hand Batman over in exchange for being allowed to live."

OR

My own thoughts:
Either that or. Selina knew Bane would kill her if she led Batman unannounced to Bane. Bane would like to know when his adversary would turn up, and she would have brought Batman without bane knowing, then Bane would surely kill her. So perhaps she told Bane in advance that she was bringing Batman so Bane was prepared, otherwise he would have killed her if she would lead Batman to him without him knowing it.


What do you think that has happened?

 

[BestGirl]

Maybe Bane's men got him out of there.



I think he asked her to lead him to Bane because he knew she had underworld connections and might know where he is.

I got a couple of questions:

1. Why didn't Bruce arrange to have Miranda saved when he got Catwoman to bust him and Lucius out?

2. Why did he tell Catwoman at the end there was no autopilot on the Bat when there clearly was?

3. Why was Bane surprised to find out Batman was back in Gotham? Talia had seen Bruce earlier that day, so why didn't she let Bane in on that fact?

Now that I think about #3, that was the scene where Catwoman showed up and took away Bruce and Lucius as Bane's prisoners. Talia may not have realized this was a ruse and thought Bane was already taking care of the situation.

I also have a problem with this. There's something not good with the order of the Miranda/Talia scenes at the end; http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=23959015

Agreed. I think Miranda wasn't initially supposed to be in the scene in which Catwoman rescued Bruce and Lucius.

What do you think about Selina Kyle and leading Batman to Bane in order not to get killed?

Originally Posted by The_Fire_Rises:
"After Selina sells Bruce's fingerprints to Dagget, Dagget's men try to kill her because they didn't want any loose ends. Bane was "working" for Dagget at the time and Selina was deathly afraid that Dagget would send Bane and his thugs after her to kill her. The way I understood her betrayal of Batman was that she made a deal with Bane to hand Batman over in exchange for being allowed to live."

OR

My own thoughts:
Either that or. Selina knew Bane would kill her if she led Batman unannounced to Bane. Bane would like to know when his adversary would turn up, and she would have brought Batman without bane knowing, then Bane would surely kill her. So perhaps she told Bane in advance that she was bringing Batman so Bane was prepared, otherwise he would have killed her if she would lead Batman to him without him knowing it.


What do you think that has happened?

I agree with The_Fire_Rises's interpretation of events.

 

[antovolk]

Here's one plot hole NOT in the original script -

Spoiler

How did the Bat go from the Batcave (before the "Goodbye Alfred" scene) to the top of Wayne Enterprises HQ ("remember where you parked?")

Meant to be in the film instead of this shot:

 

[Hicksatpd]

Why did Talia and Bane wait 9 years to avenge Ra's and fulfill his destiny? Are we meant to assume it took that long to assemble a team of mercs and to then get to the point where they could do a favor for Dagget?

I can imagine Bruce sneaking into Gotham by the bridge,nut how the hell did he get all the way back before that once he was out of the pit?

Even with autopilot, how does he manage to clear a 6 mile blast? My best guess is they cheat in editing and that last shot of Bruce in the cockpit is actually a few minutes earlier than it appears, and he ejected with minutes to spare as soon as he was out of eyesite (range-wise) of Gotham's people.

 

[Hicksatpd]

Also, why didn't the mercs mow down most/all of the cops with their automatic weapons in the streets rather than resorting to hand to hand so easily?

 

[ABleedingCorpse]

Why did Talia and Bane wait 9 years to avenge Ra's and fulfill his destiny? Are we meant to assume it took that long to assemble a team of mercs and to then get to the point where they could do a favor for Dagget?

I can imagine Bruce sneaking into Gotham by the bridge,nut how the hell did he get all the way back before that once he was out of the pit?

Even with autopilot, how does he manage to clear a 6 mile blast? My best guess is they cheat in editing and that last shot of Bruce in the cockpit is actually a few minutes earlier than it appears, and he ejected with minutes to spare as soon as he was out of eyesite (range-wise) of Gotham's people.

Daggett had hired Bane to do work in South Africa long before hand (as said by Alfred when he did research into Bane). They had a working relationship while Bane/Talia were setting up their own agenda and plan for Gotham. In fact, it was Bane/Talia's idea and plan for Daggett to take over Wayne Enterprises ("Your plan didn't work. Do I look like I'm in control of Wayne Enterprises?" - or something like that.) Daggett was a pawn for many years in the making for Bane and Talia. I assume Bane got it into Daggett's head that he could take over Wayne's company by ruining stock exchanges and Daggett went along with it. To put this plan together and have it fully work, it takes a very long time to pull off. 9 Years seems about right.

 

[pixiesvision]

Also, why didn't the mercs mow down most/all of the cops with their automatic weapons in the streets rather than resorting to hand to hand so easily?

Using guns is difficult when they're fighting that close. Someone could have shot at them from a distance, but hand to hand combat might be necessary when you're literally face to face.

 

[ComicStalker]

There are alot of nitpicks and minor plot holes in this film. Overall its not as well crafted of a story as TDK. And as good of a movie as it is. It is a little bit of a bummer of a movie because they tried to give an ending to Batman. Thats not a good thing.
I believe it would have been a much better movie and more praised and hyped if they didnt try so hard to wrap up Batman and Bruce. Imagine this same movie but without all the "Batman only has one fight left in" him crap and without the faking of his death. Now imagine it was rewritten to show Batman triumphing and continuing on, ready to take on his next foe off screen...
If you try really hard to imagine this its already a better movie.
Plus Bane is a plain, one track villian who is not nearly as interesting as Joker, Riddler, or even Penguin.

 

[Mace Dolex]

When Batman is fighting Bane in the sewers the first couple of punches Batman gives are to Bane's face, how is it that Bane's little tube thingies didn't dislodge then? Yeah I know the movie would've been over then.

But I think Batman didn't know full well about Bane's history enough to come up with a plan, he just charges at him blindly thinking Bane is a common thug.

 

[ABleedingCorpse]

When Batman is fighting Bane in the sewers the first couple of punches Batman gives are to Bane's face, how is it that Bane's little tube thingies didn't dislodge then? Yeah I know the movie would've been over then.

But I think Batman didn't know full well about Bane's history enough to come up with a plan, he just charges at him blindly thinking Bane is a common thug.

As Bane said, "Your patience has cost you your strength...", after Batman hits him in the face the first time. Bane realizes he's weak and the punch did nothing to Bane's mask. But as you said, once Bruce gained enough strength doing push ups in the pit and knowing Bane's weakness in the mask, he managed to defeat/weaken Bane at the end by knocking his mask loose. HOWEVER, if I believe correctly in that final fight...Batman actually used his gautlets to damage Bane's mask, NOT his actual fist.

 

[aeioulul]

As Bane said, "Your patience has cost you your strength...", after Batman hits him in the face the first time. Bane realizes he's weak and the punch did nothing to Bane's mask. But as you said, once Bruce gained enough strength doing push ups in the pit and knowing Bane's weakness in the mask, he managed to defeat/weaken Bane at the end by knocking his mask loose. HOWEVER, if I believe correctly in that final fight...Batman actually used his gautlets to damage Bane's mask, NOT his actual fist.

Not sure, but I thought it was "Peace has cost you your strength."

 

[AnneFan]

Not sure, but I thought it was "Peace has cost you your strength."

Yes, that's what he says. And "victory has defeated you."

 

[aeioulul]

Yes, that's what he says. And "victory has defeated you."

AnneFan! I your avvy!

 

[Broker]

Why did Talia and Bane wait 9 years to avenge Ra's and fulfill his destiny? Are we meant to assume it took that long to assemble a team of mercs and to then get to the point where they could do a favor for Dagget?

Presumably they needed the capacity to destroy the City. It was only when they became of the clean energy project and that it could be turned into a bomb that they saw a way of taking revenge.

I can imagine Bruce sneaking into Gotham by the bridge,nut how the hell did he get all the way back before that once he was out of the pit?

I guess Bruce still had friends in high places. Either that or he snook aboard a plane that was travelling near to Gotham.

Even with autopilot, how does he manage to clear a 6 mile blast?

Presumably he ejected over Gotham and so was as safe as the other Gothamites.

 

[ComicStalker]

So how long were the construction crews working underneath Gotham to make all the explosives filled concrete all over the city? Apparently there was something shady going on for quite a while that maybe Batman could have done something about.

Also the whole point about faking the death of Dr. Pavel was to try and get Bruce Wayne to restart his Fusion Energy machine. They were hoping that if Bruce heard that the guy who claimed he could turn the fusion reactor into a bomb was dead, then Bruce might restart the Fusion reactor.

 

[Micromind]

2. Why did he tell Catwoman at the end there was no autopilot on the Bat when there clearly was?

3. Why was Bane surprised to find out Batman was back in Gotham? Talia had seen Bruce earlier that day, so why didn't she let Bane in on that fact?

2. Maybe he was not sure that it would work and took that opportunity to say last good bye, just in case.

Or, he wanted them to believe that he will not survive.

3. Bane did see the burning Bat signal on the bridge (or maybe some one should have already told him about that, and Talia must have told Bane about batman's arrival in Gotham.) but he looked surprised as he did not expect him to return to Gotham after escaping from the Pit, Bane also looked scared.