Comics The Official Storm vs Jean thread

[Spade]

Realistically, I can't see Storm beating Jean in a straight-up bout (why they would fight non-withstanding). I feel that the Phoenix is the inexorable essence of Jean, and have always felt that way. To say 'Jean is not the Phoenix' is sort of like saying 'Storm is a seperate entity from her own powers' in my book. I've always defined the two as being one in the same.

But I digress. My view is that if both are written to the level they should be written Jean would beat Storm. The way that Storm was originally written gives me no real concept of her being able to do half of what the Phoenix can do. I don't really add in moments where the Phoenix is seen to be weaker than she should be, or when Storm is showing off some interglactic-impacting ability we've yet to see up until now. Storm has been shown as a powerful mutant capable of summoning damaging gales and the worst of elemental aspects to her command, but in comparison to a being who can alter things on a molecular scale at whim and has power over telekinetic and telepathic scales exceeding any known limit I just don't see her winning. I'm not saying she couldn't- anything can happen in a comic- just that in my own views of where both characters should be standing and in my interpretation of what the Phoenix is I can't see Ororo winning this written the way she should be and under fair circumstances.

As for the aforementioned attitudes of Jean fanboys when sparring with the equally-ravenous Storm fanboys, I look at it the same way I look at the Hulk and Mace v. Sidious on theforce.net's forums: admitting a character can lose, even a favorite, holds no shame. In the end you waste moments of your life trying to prove over the 'Net that [subject A] can beat [subject B] or that [subject A] is better than [insert everything that is not subject A here]. It's pointless, and in real life discerning behavior. With all the venom both sides spit at each other and all the insults aimed at each other and the characters themselves I'm surprised people haven't started using racial slurs to prove their side of the argument. Some of the 'debating statements' are just a notch above that level. I've yet to see what's entertaining about this troubling method of writing some people have started rampantly using here and in other forums.

 

[masterj]

You can share your opinion all you want, I'm not saying your actually wrong. Like when u said "marrying Storm off desont count as original" amd didn't bash that, but sinply asked if Jeans marrage wasn't original either. If I came off a little rough, I apoligize. But I didn't act as if you can't share your opinion.

Is any marriage original? I suppose if you married a horse it would but no Jean didn't marry horse, Scott did lol.

 

[Valechan]

Wow, I knew this thread would sink in

Let us examine one tiny little fact that has just come into view. From the interview that was posted on the very first post, it is said that we've "barely seen" what Ororo can do. Let's tie this into the "possible omega" status she received in BP 22. Why is Ororo a "possible Omega"? Simply, because she has yet to use her abilities to the fullest potential, she has yet to unleash her entire might upon the planet. Why doesn't she? Well, Uncanny 147 shows us why. If Ororo used her powers to the fullest there is no end what she could do. She has been using a mere fraction of them and look at all the wondrous things she has done, from the "solar wind riding" to the "starcore explosion", to many many more. In Uncanny 227, the Adversary says that Ororo's winds can shatter worlds and her lightning can turn it to dust.
In essence, Ororo isn't labeled as an Omega yet because she has yet to unleash her full might. Do notice that until mutants used their powers to their fullest expressions they were not catalogued as Omegas.

Like we've said before, Jean will try to enter Ororo's mind, and we all know what happens when people enter Storm's mind uninvited.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Yeah, but wasn't the point that quite a few fans just think Omega mutation level is bull and that uber l33t mutants just aren't that fun?

 

[GL1]

Honestly, anyone who thinks that Telepathy or TK are going to beat Storm clearly don't know what they're talking about. Storm's weather is far more powerful than Jean's TK? What can Jean lift? Tanks? Storm moves armies, to say nothing of secondary effects... there's simply no comparison here.

As for telepathy, even with the clautrophobic weakness, Jean can't get all the way into Ororo's mind. There's mutant, magical and natural defenses there that can't be easily overcome, EVEN by Jean. The telepathy can provide a distraction, but it can't end the fight, at least not very quickly. I think some people ignorantly overestimate Storm's weakness. I don't know how to better say it: Storm has mental defenses!

That said, Phoenix can do anything, and as such, she can just teleport Storm into space, or into Nightcrawler's dimension, or stop time and hit Storm over the head with a bowling ball. The Phoenix is all powerful, (With limited energy)... but Storm will roll over telepathy and Telekinesis like it's a joke. Storm's simply too powerful for that.

 

[javon]

^As much as I love my Ororo, I'd have to disagree. Jeans telekinetic ability does far more than "lifting" things. In one Uncanny annual (I think it was just an uncanny issue) she said her telekinesis can render planets asunder (sp definately). Not only that but if she can fend off Xavier's telepathic attacks, she can definately have a better chance in Storms mind moreso than you described.

WOW, nice quote Sebita! I was actually gonna get that issue later on this week, but now I'm even more motivated to get it t:

 

[GL1]

^As much as I love my Ororo, I'd have to disagree. Jeans telekinetic ability does far more than "lifting" things. In one Uncanny annual (I think it was just an uncanny issue) she said her telekinesis can render planets asunder (sp definately). Not only that but if she can fend off Xavier's telepathic attacks, she can definately have a better chance in Storms mind moreso than you described.

Perhaps I have underestimated Jean's TK, that's fine. Both characters are capable of ripping planets apart with their physical abilities and there is no doubt that Jean is Xavier's level with Telepathy, but the statement remains that Ororo's mind is not accessible to a point where telepathy becomes a viable way of defeating her.

From what I know of the characters, I don't see Jean defeating Storm with her mutant powers... I just can't see it... they'd rip the Earth apart before a winner could be found, save for the reality-warping Phoenix abilities.

 

[javon]

Perhaps I have underestimated Jean's TK, that's fine. Both characters are capable of ripping planets apart with their physical abilities and there is no doubt that Jean is Xavier's level with Telepathy,

IS his level? Try past it. She is a more powerful telepath than Xavier I believe. (Jean/Phoenix fans???)

but the statement remains that Ororo's mind is not accessible to a point where telepathy becomes a viable way of defeating her.

True, but it's not like Jean CAN'T enter her mind. Yeah it won't be easy, but she'll get in eventually.

From what I know of the characters, I don't see Jean defeating Storm with her mutant powers... I just can't see it... they'd rip the Earth apart before a winner could be found, save for the reality-warping Phoenix abilities.

You must not know about her molecular control over atoms? She's turned a tree to stone, reverted Colosuss OUT of his metal form, destroyed an entire galaxy, and much more. Storm is hella powerful, but this is a omni powerful enity were talking about here.

 

[The Weather God]

True, but it's not like Jean CAN'T enter her mind. Yeah it won't be easy, but she'll get in eventually.

Indeed jean could enter her mind but it won't be as easy as everyone say's it is. As i've pointed out storm already haves indomitable willpower on top of an electrical field around her brain for deeper probes, and the ability to create an electrical storm to scramble a telepathic link all together. It would not be wise to start off with a telepathic attack seeing as how storm would be able to at the same time attack jean with the full force of the elements taking her off of her focused mind.

Wow, I knew this thread would sink in

Let us examine one tiny little fact that has just come into view. From the interview that was posted on the very first post, it is said that we've "barely seen" what Ororo can do. Let's tie this into the "possible omega" status she received in BP 22. Why is Ororo a "possible Omega"? Simply, because she has yet to use her abilities to the fullest potential, she has yet to unleash her entire might upon the planet. Why doesn't she? Well, Uncanny 147 shows us why. If Ororo used her powers to the fullest there is no end what she could do. She has been using a mere fraction of them and look at all the wondrous things she has done, from the "solar wind riding" to the "starcore explosion", to many many more. In Uncanny 227, the Adversary says that Ororo's winds can shatter worlds and her lightning can turn it to dust.
In essence, Ororo isn't labeled as an Omega yet because she has yet to unleash her full might. Do notice that until mutants used their powers to their fullest expressions they were not catalogued as Omegas.

Like we've said before, Jean will try to enter Ororo's mind, and we all know what happens when people enter Storm's mind uninvited.

Well said Sebita

 

[GL1]

IS his level? Try past it. She is a more powerful telepath than Xavier I believe. (Jean/Phoenix fans???)

True, but it's not like Jean CAN'T enter her mind. Yeah it won't be easy, but she'll get in eventually.

You must not know about her molecular control over atoms? She's turned a tree to stone, reverted Colosuss OUT of his metal form, destroyed an entire galaxy, and much more. Storm is hella powerful, but this is a omni powerful enity were talking about here.

It seems as though we're agreeing. I don't doubt that Phoenix can defeat Storm, but Telepathy and Telekinesis just won't get the job done, you need that reality warping stuff.

 

[javon]

^YES, telekineis CAN. You do realize she could crush Storm like a peacan don't you?

 

[Hotaru]

This topic is pointless and I'm surpised that it lasted so long. Seriously, Jean is DEAD, why do you care?

 

[Mike059jig]

Jean is not dead. She was resurrected in Phoenix Endsong and was last seen very much alive at the end of that book

.....................

 

[Hotaru]

.....................

Yeah... And I've seen Santa when I was little.
The White-Hot-Loo isn't a place for the living.

 

[Mike059jig]

Every one seen santa when they were little....
The white hot room is THEE place to live.....

 

[javon]

.....................

Meh, it happens. Plus it's not that surprising. I just wonder, ya know, what her purpose is gonna be.

 

[The Weather God]

^YES, telekineis CAN. You do realize she could crush Storm like a peacan don't you?

I'm not sure but i think storm can block teke assaults too if i'm not mistaken. She did it to candra i believe.

 

[Valechan]

Ororo's electromagnetic pulses have disrupted telekinesis in the past, it is not unheard of.

What you seem to get wrong GL1 is that the Phoenix Force has no "reality warping" powers whatsoever. The 616 Phoenix (be it Jean, Rachel or whomever) has never altered reality, it has always been a "higher" telekinesis/telepathy combo. So Jean, with the Phoenix Force is just that, a "power-up" of her regular tp/tk. She can't teleport, she never has, she can't teleport others, she never has, she never will.

 

[javon]

Which issue did she disrupt TK? I dont think I've heard of it....I heard of her doing on in the danger room though.

 

[Valechan]

I posted it ages ago but I truly can't recall now, I think it was around 240ish... I can't remember, but I know it happened twice at least.

 

[javon]

^Cool, the inferno event. Okay, I'll go search.

Edit: No luck

 

[Harlekin]

Ororo's electromagnetic pulses have disrupted telekinesis in the past, it is not unheard of.

What you seem to get wrong GL1 is that the Phoenix Force has no "reality warping" powers whatsoever. The 616 Phoenix (be it Jean, Rachel or whomever) has never altered reality, it has always been a "higher" telekinesis/telepathy combo. So Jean, with the Phoenix Force is just that, a "power-up" of her regular tp/tk. She can't teleport, she never has, she can't teleport others, she never has, she never will.

You really don't want to go over the whole Here Comes Tomorrow thing again do you?

 

[GL1]

Ororo's electromagnetic pulses have disrupted telekinesis in the past, it is not unheard of.

What you seem to get wrong GL1 is that the Phoenix Force has no "reality warping" powers whatsoever. The 616 Phoenix (be it Jean, Rachel or whomever) has never altered reality, it has always been a "higher" telekinesis/telepathy combo. So Jean, with the Phoenix Force is just that, a "power-up" of her regular tp/tk. She can't teleport, she never has, she can't teleport others, she never has, she never will.

Interesting. I was going off my MURPG rules for the Phoenix Force character, where time travel, among other rediculousness, is all available. Perhaps I am mistaken.

^YES, telekineis CAN. You do realize she could crush Storm like a peacan don't you?

And vice versa, assuming neither was defending themselves.

 

[Mike059jig]

You really don't want to go over the whole Here Comes Tomorrow thing again do you?

They way GM interpreted her evolving powers was brilliant.....she was near invincible......the power display she showed coming back to earth in the last arc was incredible.....

 

[Nature's Rising]

I wish they could do something fresh and truly original with them and have some proper charcater development, and marrying Storm off didn't count as original. Maybe depower Storm and strip Jean fo the Phoenix, if its possible. That would be interesting and so how many people are true fans of the characters or just cus they're so powerful. I must be different from other people but I don't like uberpowerful charcaters, I prefer someone who has an appeal and is interesting. Someone with strengths and weaknessess and acts as a human being and not some 2 dimensional 'I'm a beauty Queen/ I'm a Goddesss/ I'm so powerful' type.

I get what you're saying. If you ask me, her marrying BP was so forced and abrupt. But then I also thought that the idiots behind Marvel won't let Storm go without her having to marry somebody.

Like as you said, Jean being in X-Men is pointless with her PF uber-power. Have you noticed that in any Jean appearances with the team is ALWAYS her without the Phoenix. that's why she always stay dead, because she just destroys the thrill of a plot line.

A character's worth will not fade if he/she get trumped by other characters often. Tell me, is mad Jim jaspers a richer character than wolverine or rogue? Spider Man is not the most powerful, but he's like the poster child of Marvel. I think that character development should be the priority for every character.

But I don't think that they should depower storm. I mean with all the powers she has, she rarely shows them unlike Jean who just don't have that will to hold back. I think that powerful characters should also be recognized as a rich character with power. It is rarely witnessed that a powerful character is also a rich character.