BvS The Official Superman/Batman Composer Thread

[Kevin Smith]

A Williams-Elfman score is needed but the Nolanites / Zimmerites at WB and on here won't or don't get it.

That would be...so perfect. I love that the iconic scores are used in the Lego games. There's a reason they have lived on for so long....like the James Bond theme.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

in a perfect world, this is the new batman score we get (start it around 1:06)



the one from arkham city is also really good.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Since this is the first Superman/Batman movie, I think it would be pretty cool if there was a Williams/Elfman homage.

 

[Bigjxxx]

in a perfect world, this is the new batman score we get (start it around 1:06)



the one from arkham city is also really good.

Chip, in a perfect world, Shirley Walker would be still here in the land of the living giving us another chance to hear a wonderful Batman score that would melt away Zimmer's verison.

 

[Bigjxxx]

That would be...so perfect. I love that the iconic scores are used in the Lego games. There's a reason they have lived on for so long....like the James Bond theme.

AMEN....it seems great minds think alike. You can't get rid of the iconic scores from Williams, Elfman, and Walker and expect Batman or Superman coming into the hearts and minds.

Here is what I stated in another thread.

Since this is the first ever BATMAN and SUPERMAN live action movie. One would have to bring out the best.

1) Put Danny Elfman, John Williams, Chris Drake, and http://www.dynamicmusicpartners.com/ into a room.

2)Danny Elfman (and Shirley Walker, RIP.) for an adult, darker and updated version of this http://youtu.be/9Vcd01EQVTI

3) Christopher Drake should be saved for a Justice League movie but http://youtu.be/KJdPNSqSYm4 and this http://youtu.be/DEePGSEzgq8 can be the theme.

4) A one timer Shawn K. Clement could do well. http://youtu.be/sCwQzQGmbLs


Anyone above is better than Zimmer/Nolan/Goyer Law & Order style Batman.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Since this is the first Superman/Batman movie, I think it would be pretty cool if there was a Williams/Elfman homage.

That's what I'm saying! I would love this, and I think it's entirely appropriate.... the second they announced that Batman would be in the sequel I started looking at it as the first time Superman and Batman ever team up in a live action movie over a MOS sequel, the former is a bigger deal and should take precedence, IMO, they should make that as big a deal as can be.

Also, with that in mind, I think somewhere along the 4rth issue or so of the Man of Steel miniseries by John Byrne Batman and Superman teamed up and it was one of Superman's early adventures and Batman had been around a bit so it's not an entirely inappropriate idea for the MOS sequel if you think about it...

 

[Kevin Smith]

AMEN....it seems great minds think alike. You can't get rid of the iconic scores from Williams, Elfman, and Walker and expect Batman or Superman coming into the hearts and minds.

Here is what I stated in another thread.

Yes.

And I'd be equally as happy if they decided to adopt Shirley Walker's Batman theme and/or Superman in the films - that'd be so perfect. She was one of the all time greats - every soundtrack she did was gold.

 

[Kevin Smith]

No thanks. New and independent score from what came before just as with the films, please.

There are some things that transcend an individual's personal "interpretation" and become part of the character, like the character them self, I'd say the Elf man/Williams/ Walker themes are a perfect example of that - they are the characters as much as the characters themselves. No way will they ever feel out of place with the characters.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Chip, in a perfect world, Shirley Walker would be still here in the land of the living giving us another chance to hear a wonderful Batman score that would melt away Zimmer's verison.

Amen to that

 

[Bigjxxx]

That's still subjective, and with new film interpretations should come new film scores. It's not like Bond which still tries to maintain some sort of (albeit at times loose) continuity or 'umbrella' over all the stories. I don't care much for Elfman's music anyway, but I personally love Williams' Superman score (probably my favorite of his...and no just the main theme). But at the beginning, middle and end of the day they are first and foremost film scores...and of the films are completely separate from eachother so should the music be. It's not about feeling 'out of place', nor is it taking away from how well they worked in their respective roles....but about the films being cinematically unique from eachother across the board. If the films themeselves aren't outright homages, then neither should their music or any other aspect be.

If they absolutely wanted to use them, then I'd prefer they did it like the new Star Trek movies and saved them until the end credits...definitely not in the main movie at all.

OH???? Watch Rob Zombies Halloween 2 or Platinum Dunes' Friday the 13th. Those two movie lose impact and soul without Michael's and Jason's respective themes.

 

[smallville fan]

We seem to have two threads discussing soundtrack:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=473039

 

[BatLobster]

There are some things that transcend an individual's personal "interpretation" and become part of the character, like the character them self, I'd say the Elf man/Williams/ Walker themes are a perfect example of that - they are the characters as much as the characters themselves. No way will they ever feel out of place with the characters.

I'm not sure I agree with that. I've seen fan trailers for TDK and MoS cut to the Elfman and Williams themes respectively, and they felt pretty out of place to me.

It doesn't make those themes any less classic, but I think it would be hugely unfair to all future composers who work on these films to be forced into using another composer's theme. It would kind of be the equivalent of telling a writer that the script has to be in continuity with previous movies. It's a bit limiting.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. As much as I love Elfman and Walker's Batman themes and find them definitive, I also find the Arkham games' theme to be pretty definitive, as well as Chris Drake's work on TDKReturns for that matter. Point being, I don't think one theme ought to be held up as the "official" theme for all time. If that were the case then we'd never have gotten all the other great Batman music that's now out there.

 

[Kevin Smith]

You have to use stuff like the Elfman and Williams themes tapered appropriately for the images - can't be using the main positive theme for scenes that are dark or depressing... you'd have to get the Williams and/or Elfman/Walker soundtracks to play according to the scene same as any soundtrack. That's the problem with the fan edits, they could work appropriately if done right.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I'm not sure I agree with that. I've seen fan trailers for TDK and MoS cut to the Elfman and Williams themes respectively, and they felt pretty out of place to me.

It doesn't make those themes any less classic, but I think it would be hugely unfair to all future composers who work on these films to be forced into using another composer's theme. It would kind of be the equivalent of telling a writer that the script has to be in continuity with previous movies. It's a bit limiting.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. As much as I love Elfman and Walker's Batman themes and find them definitive, I also find the Arkham games' theme to be pretty definitive, as well as Chris Drake's work on TDKReturns for that matter. Point being, I don't think one theme ought to be held up as the "official" theme for all time. If that were the case then we'd never have gotten all the other great Batman music that's now out there.

But that's the thing, once you get to something definitive it's definitive as in not topped - if it's topped whatever tops it becomes definitive, and if you know it doesn't top it, why bother? Wouldn't it take away to replace something that was definitive with something sub par? Again, I point to Tue James Bond theme.....with every actor we've had a new iteration and take on the character...but the iconic Bond theme remains in tact. Like trying to top Beethoven or Tchaikovsky. But at the same time I always encourage people to try....but when it comes to John Williams, it's JOHN WILLIAMS. Only John Williams can top John Williams.

 

[Kevin Smith]

That's still subjective, and with new film interpretations should come new film scores. It's not like Bond which still tries to maintain some sort of (albeit at times loose) continuity or 'umbrella' over all the stories. I don't care much for Elfman's music anyway, but I personally love Williams' Superman score (probably my favorite of his...and no just the main theme). But at the beginning, middle and end of the day they are first and foremost film scores...and of the films are completely separate from eachother so should the music be. It's not about feeling 'out of place', nor is it taking away from how well they worked in their respective roles....but about the films being cinematically unique from eachother across the board. If the films themeselves aren't outright homages, then neither should their music or any other aspect be.

If they absolutely wanted to use them, then I'd prefer they did it like the new Star Trek movies and saved them until the end credits...definitely not in the main movie at all.

I like the Star Trek idea. Idk if I'd do them as the opening either, the Star Trek idea is great.

 

[DeadPresident]

Hans Zimmer is the reason I find MoS, TDKR and mostly TDK as rewatchable as I do. A lot of people seem to want something a bit more subtle and aren't satisfied with Zimmer but I think he's a great complement to the DCU.

 

[BatLobster]

You have to use stuff like the Elfman and Williams themes tapered appropriately for the images - can't be using the main positive theme for scenes that are dark or depressing... you'd have to get the Williams and/or Elfman/Walker soundtracks to play according to the scene same as any soundtrack. That's the problem with the fan edits, they could work appropriately if done right.

I'm both a musician and an editor so I get that. But still, I don't know...to me, when I hear Elfman's score, I think "Burton's Batman". There have just been so many different Batman themes that I don't see him as a character that has one theme that all versions should be beholden to. From Walker to Goldenthal to Zimmer/Newton Howard to Chris Drake and everything in between, there's plenty of great Batman music to go around and I suspect plenty of great Batman music that we've yet to hear.

But that's the thing, once you get to something definitive it's definitive as in not topped - if it's topped whatever tops it becomes definitive, and if you know it doesn't top it, why bother? Wouldn't it take away to replace something that was definitive with something sub par? Again, I point to Tue James Bond theme.....with every actor we've had a new iteration and take on the character...but the iconic Bond theme remains in tact. Like trying to top Beethoven or Tchaikovsky. But at the same time I always encourage people to try....but when it comes to John Williams, it's JOHN WILLIAMS. Only John Williams can top John Williams.

I just think we're way past that point. If Elfman's theme was "untouchable" for instance, Shirley Walker would've stuck with it for TAS, Goldenthal would've re-used it for the Schumacher movies, etc. Now I know the Elfman theme was used in the trailers for BF and B&R and was associated with TAS too, but at the end of the day each version was its own thing. That trend has been going for a while so I don't see the point in going backwards now.

I agree that you can't top John Williams, but IMHO Zimmer...didn't top him, but he delivered a theme that I felt was really, really good and was uplifting and inspirational without being as "swashbuckling".

 

[Kevin Smith]

I was never a fan of the Law and Order style Zimmer crap.

Begins end credits I enjoyed though but that was it as far as his work on TDK trilogy goes.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Edit

 

[mclay18]

You have to use stuff like the Elfman and Williams themes tapered appropriately for the images - can't be using the main positive theme for scenes that are dark or depressing...

Let's say if Shirley Walker was still living and Snyder/WB asked her to score this film -- with the caveat that she use Zimmer's material -- she would do a bang-up job. She'd do all sorts of cool arrangements and deconstructing the themes, but keep her own voice intact. (Plus she had the benefit of working with him way before he started getting these blockbuster offers.)

I could list a dozen films where the composers used another's material well in their respective scores.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Let's say if Shirley Walker was still living and Snyder/WB asked her to score this film -- with the caveat that she use Zimmer's material -- she would do a bang-up job. She'd do all sorts of cool arrangements and deconstructing the themes, but keep her own voice intact. (Plus she had the benefit of working with him way before he started getting these blockbuster offers.)

I could list a dozen films where the composers used another's material well in their respective scores.

Exactly, all this.

 

[BatLobster]

Sure, it can be done gracefully (heck the idea of Walker adapting Zimmer's themes makes me salivate), but I still say most composers would rather give their own, original take on the material. And who could blame them?

Heck, Chris Drake has composed multiple Batman themes for various DC Animated movies, all different and all of them good and fitting for each movie. It's this idea that recycling the old is automatically better than trying something new that bothers me. Reinvention is what has kept Batman fresh after all these years, and that's something that should be reflected musically in all the different incarnations.

Anyway, them going back to Elfman/Walker and Williams is all a pipe dream anyway. It's just not gonna happen.

 

[Bigjxxx]

. Point being, I don't think one theme ought to be held up as the "official" theme for all time. If that were the case then we'd never have gotten all the other great Batman music that's now out there.

Which is why you can update the theme over the years. Take the Godzilla theme for example.

 

[green]

Why does everybody discount Tom Holkenborg(aka Junkie XL) so easily? He did additional music with Zimmer on TDKR and MOS, he is also the composer for Divergent, the upcoming Mad Max : Fury Road, and was given the gig of 300 : Rise of an Empire by Snyder. Id say he's one to watch.

 

[BatLobster]

Good point.

I still think it's a crime that we haven't gotten an HQ version of his incredible TDKR promo music. But I digress, if Zimmer wants someone to lean on to take the reigns on the new Batman music, it makes sense that it's someone he trusts and has worked with in the past.