The Official "Ultimate Avengers" DVD Thread

The Question said:
I really liked the mini Avengers documentary they had as a special feature. That was cool. After watching the film, I actually got the idea of doing an animated Ultimates fanfilm using the old 60s marvel cartoon method of taking pictures from the comic and animating them. Except, with computers, it would probably look alot better. Do you think that would work with Hitch's art?
I liked it until Quesada came in and started talking about New Avengers.....which was totally illogical and foolish commentary he was making.
 
Yeah, that did irk me a bit. And at the same time, it made me realize that with a writer who's actually good at big action stories, New Avengers could have rocked.


Anyway, about the animating the pictures from the comics thing. Do you think that would work with Hitch's art?
 
oregondude said:
Hate to break it to you, but Stan Lee did not invent the word :) it has been around for ages along with Thor and the Norse mythology.
Hate to break it to me? Christ, I dont' even care. Thor doesn't really bother me, I was just saying what I thought was correct.

However, learn something new everyday.
 
:( No one said "Avengers Assemble!"...:down

my only real gripe...
 
LOVED it. I kept my expectations low and was a little dissapointed when I heard a few users reviews of it being bad. But I was very much suprised. Every character was developed well,and no Hollywood execs were able to get their hands on any of them,thank god.

As a huge Hulk fan,my favorite part was definitely when Hulk owned the Avengers. If only his actual movie was good as those couple of scenes.:(

The one thing that irked me was what some of you guys said. The constant New Avengers ****ing was stupid and pointless. What did New Avengers have to do with the ULTIMATE Avengers which is set in the ULTIMATE universe? Isn't it enough that they're in every Marvel comic? Guess not.:o

Oh well,besides that,this is without a shadow of doubt one of the better Marvel movie productions of late and should be a part of your DVD collection. I can't wait for Ultimate Avengers 2 and will be first in line come July 2006!

Sabretooth's rating: 9/10
 
hippie_hunter said:
I like to think of Ultimate Avengers as a way to get people who hate Ultimate Marvel such as myself, into the movie by combining certain 616 elements such as a non-man eating Hulk into getting the movie. I loved the movie if you ask me.

VERY good point and a VERY good way to look at it. Count me in the "hate Ultimate Marvel but loved the movie" category.

Why do some anal retentive fanboys think something must be flawed if it dared deviate from the books? They do this with the movie adaptations as well. Judge things for what they are and not for what you think they should've been based on a two dimensional presentation.
 
Dark Carnage said:
Hate to break it to me? Christ, I dont' even care. Thor doesn't really bother me, I was just saying what I thought was correct.

However, learn something new everyday.

Hey hey no offence, did not mean it that way :)
 
Sabretooth said:
LOVED it. I kept my expectations low and was a little dissapointed when I heard a few users reviews of it being bad. But I was very much suprised. Every character was developed well,and no Hollywood execs were able to get their hands on any of them,thank god.

As a huge Hulk fan,my favorite part was definitely when Hulk owned the Avengers. If only his actual movie was good as those couple of scenes.:(

The one thing that irked me was what some of you guys said. The constant New Avengers ****ing was stupid and pointless. What did New Avengers have to do with the ULTIMATE Avengers which is set in the ULTIMATE universe? Isn't it enough that they're in every Marvel comic? Guess not.:o

Oh well,besides that,this is without a shadow of doubt one of the better Marvel movie productions of late and should be a part of your DVD collection. I can't wait for Ultimate Avengers 2 and will be first in line come July 2006!

Sabretooth's rating: 9/10

Actually that was my biggest complaint. There was practically no character development done. They just showed a brief scene of each one getting recruited with NO backstory whatsoever. The casual movie watcher would have NO idea who each person was before this movie, or outside of costume. You hear Fury give a very smokingly drawn Widow a few lines of info on the people but that is it.

I felt the Hulk rampage was very well done, loved how he manhandled everybody. I liked how Cap kept coming back for more even when he was getting his ass kicked. Thor went down a bit too easy but I did like seeing him step in and take it to Hulk like he did.

Looking forward to future movies, just make them a bit longer and flesh them out a bit more.
 
YJ1 said:
Why do some anal retentive fanboys think something must be flawed if it dared deviate from the books? They do this with the movie adaptations as well. Judge things for what they are and not for what you think they should've been based on a two dimensional presentation.

Great Statement! :up:
 
oregondude said:
They just showed a brief scene of each one getting recruited with NO backstory whatsoever. The casual movie watcher would have NO idea who each person was before this movie, or outside of costume.

Looking forward to future movies, just make them a bit longer and flesh them out a bit more.

Good point. Knowing these characters deeply, I never really thought of that. Some backstory on Iron Man and Thor might have helped the newbies. Hank, Jan and even the Widow were adequate for their roles in this movie IMO.

I would've liked to have known what these aliens were doing during Cap's sixty year snooze as well. It seems awfully strange and convenient that they waited that long to make a move. I would've liked this plot point addressed. Overall though, still one quality animated movie.
 
Still, it seemed like the pilot for a TV show more than a stand alone movie. Good thing there's gonna be a sequel.
 
Yeah. Agreed.:up:

And about the alien thing, I'm a bit curious about that too. What WAS their purpose? Just show up and invade? And if so, why take so long? They should've striked while the earth was weak with Cap out of the picture and all. Oh well. They get as much backstory as they got in the actual arc so whatever.:D
 
Savage said:
Yeah. Agreed.:up:

And about the alien thing, I'm a bit curious about that too. What WAS their purpose? Just show up and invade? And if so, why take so long? They should've striked while the earth was weak with Cap out of the picture and all. Oh well. They get as much backstory as they got in the actual arc so whatever.:D

Maybe they got their ass handed to 'em...they all left Earth, and it takes a long time to get to their planet...then they regrouped and rebuilt, bid their time and came back recently...taking a long time to get back to Earth.

I mean I dont know...maybe it's a stretch...but still.
 
DREAD'S REVIEW OF "ULTIMATE AVENGERS"

Truth be told, I love animation. This zeal came as a kid when alongside issues of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, I enjoyed the usual crop of 80's cartoons (HE-MAN, TRANSFORMERS, INSPECTOR GADGET, NINJA TURTLES), continuing with the 90's cartoons of DC icons (Batman and Superman), as well as Marvel's. Junior High brought on the discovery of anime, and showed me how mature animation could be, if treated seriously. Ever since I have strived for higher standards for animation as I know it can be MORE than flashy colors, singing animals and action figure infomercials. Posters who see me pop up in TV forums for Teen Titans, TMNT, JLU & THE BATMAN can maybe sense this.

Marvel's forays into animation have, frankly, not always been too hot. Sure, in the early days, their shows were crudely animated, but SUPERFRIENDS was hardly an Emmy achievement either. Most of their 90's shows, whether good (X-MEN, SPIDER-MAN), bad (AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND, SPIDER-MAN: UNLIMITED) or average, usually due to one bad season out of two (IRON MAN, FANTASTIC FOUR, INCREDIBLE HULK), were triggered by Arad's zeal for Toy Biz toys. DC has ruled the airwaves with long lasting, intelligent cartoons for over 12 years with their "Timmverse" of B:TAS/S:TAS/BEYOND/JL/JLU, and also ventured into the "Pokemon Generation" with TITANS and THE BATMAN. Meanwhile, since the mid-late 90's really, the only Marvel cartoon that lasted beyond a season was X-MEN: EVOLUTION, a show that hardcores panned, but everyone else loved, whose fate went into limbo because Marvel distanced themselves from it and the WB (their rivals) own the rights.

It is worth mentioning EVOLUTION because a lot of the names involved with that show return. Series designer Steve Gordon returns for ULTIMATE AVENGERS, as do two key writers. ULTIMATE AVENGERS is Marvel's first attempt at quality animation for over 2 years and the first of their releases with LIONS GATE. A sequal is already in the works, as well as an IRON MAN feature, a DR. STRANGE one and possibly 5 other works.

If ULTIMATE AVENGERS is any indicator, we are in for some good stuff.

The story relies heavilly on the first 6 issues of THE ULTIMATES comics, as do the designs (frankly Iron Man is the biggest departure, as his look here is closer to the canon comics than Ultimate), but it is not handcuffed by it. Plus, much like the best adaptations of old comic stories, as seen on X-MEN, TMNT, and even the Timmverse toons at times, the writers make use of that time-age thing, "HINDSIGHT", to improve on some areas of the original work, or in the least adjust it to fit the medium and the audience. For example, the aliens that the team would fight in the second half of ULTIMATES, as well as the Kleiser (the alien Nazi who takes Red Skull's place as Captain America's WW2 arch foe) are introduced early, to better flow with the second chapter. Black Widow is brought in early, likely to add another woman to the team in addition to Wasp, which brings with it some new story elements. And while certain sequences of the Ultimates comics are translated nearly panel-for-panel (like about 75% of the beginning sequence with Cap in WW2), the special has its own uniqueness to keep fans guessing.

Some people will say, "why'd they have to change X, Y, and Z", but c'mon, half of the fun of non-comic adaptations is seeing what is changed, what isn't, and what the writers do on their own. Because straight translations can be boring. Even SIN CITY took some minor liberties.

I will say that while I like THE ULTIMATES, and while I feel Mark Millar is great on it, and that whenever issues of this late book ship, it deserves to sell in the Top Ten like it does, ULTIMATE AVENGERS is a suitable title because the show seems to throw in more elements of 616. The tone is lighter than Millar's work, and understandably so; Millar often writes at an extreme, and that can put people off. I have read many people who pan ULTIMATES because of "thug Cap" or "cannibal Hulk", which are both true. Ultimate Cap kicks people when they're down, and suckerpunches people with uzi's, while Hulk is a rampaging monster in the purest sense. Here, Cap is more pure, and even Hulk has some moments of heroism (as well as a subtle climax that captures more of the heart of the character than some stuff from Ultimate). Even Iron Man retains more roots in design as well as his initial desire to "work alone" as a solo hero. On the whole, though, the PG-13 rating seems a bit harsh as all of the stuff here, even the scenes of aliens being blasted or soldiers being vaporized, are really not any worse than some of the stuff on JLU. Does that sort of stuff fall into PG-13 now? Maybe because it is a cartoon. There is no nudity or cursing, but frankly, few stories really NEED that sort of thing (SIN CITY sort of shows how Miller goes overboard with it at times).

The story itself is simple; Cap goes on his last adventure in 1945 to shut down the Nazi's last ditch weapon, a nuke aimed at Washington, which has been built apparently by Nazi scientists in alliance with aliens (the Chituri). Cap seemingly kills their leader Kleiser before giving his own life to blow up the rocket, plunging him into the icey depths of the ocean. Fast foward 60 years, and SHIELD, anxious to discover the secret of his super-soldier serum, find him encased in a glacier, and he is very much alive. On hand is Gen. Fury, head of SHIELD who seems to take his marching orders from the U.N., and scientists Betty Ross and Bruce Banner, the latter of whom has had his life seemingly ruined by the Hulk, and sees the project as his shot at redemption (although not in the same way as Ross sees it). Cap, after an bit of a "misunderstanding" that was rough on about a half dozen soldiers and Fury's jaw, is your "man out of time" as he is stuck coping with a world that has passed him by (his friends are all dead, save for Bucky, who married his youthful sweetheart and both are geriatric). However, when a satellite intended to locate the remaining aliens instead gets trashed by them, Fury is ordered to jump-start PROJECT: AVENGER so there is some means of defense before another satellite can be safely launched (Fury seems to care more about the lives of his astronaunts than his superiors do).

And so they are forced to go after "costumed civilians". Agent Black Widow is used to try to coax Stark into cooperating on SHIELD business requirements as well as giving them a lead on the armored hero Iron Man, who Stark secretly is. Hank Pym and his wife Janet, ex-SHIELD workers, are eventually tapped as Giant-Man and Wasp, with the former's ego being even bigger than his ability to grow 60 feet tall, with his wife being more dominated by him (or apologizing for him). There is also an attempt to recruit the supposed "son of Odin", Thor, who holds "peaceful" eco-demonstrations until he is "provoked", which then leads to showcases of power (in this case, scaring off a whaling ship). Thor turns them down, but seems to see some common bond in the soldier Steve, as does Black Widow. Iron Man also is essentially forced into hearing their offer, but soon joins the team to defend a SHIELD base that a Chituri has invaded.

However, they are not a team yet; everyone but Cap and Widow disobeys their orders for one reason or another, and the mission is a total failure, leading to the team breaking down even more and Cap losing even more faith in himself (all he has left is "duty to America" and he can't even do that). The reworked story basically has Widow serve as a "romantic interest" with Cap, which was an unexpected twist that actually is pretty interesting. After all, like her, Cap is a soldier, the greatest there is, in fact. I'd prefer a clever new idea (like Cyke/Rogue or Avalanche/Kitty from Evolution) than blindly adhering to canon if it works.

Even Fury is about ready to scrap the team, especially when Banner claims he's managed to get a working serum ready. The trick is, there are no test subjects like he'd claimed; only himself. He wants to use Cap's process to stablize the Hulk, a chance he gets when the Triskalon is under attack by aliens. And it actually WORKS for a while. The Hulk manages to save Betty and jump off to kick some monster ass with the rest of the heroes. This leads to a showdown with the aliens where all of the Avengers, even Thor, show up when they are needed. However, in the end the Hulk cannot control himself after all, and goes into a knock-down brawl with the other heroes. However, unlike in Ultimates, there is no people eating, no killing of innocents. And in the end, after a terrific brawl, it is Betty who manages to sooth the Hulk into a slumber, and in the end doesn't that work better with the character? The Hulk always represented not only one's inner dark rage, but the fact that there are some threats that cannot be contained with sheer aggression. You can't beat the Hulk by fighting him; he only gets stronger, madder, tougher. But Ross is the beauty that he loves, who can calm even that savage beast. The ending almost begs for a sequal and I can't seem to wait until August, which means Part 1 did its job. I hope there are more installments.

Now, first the criticisms and then the points on details. ULTIMATE AVENGERS was not perfect, and I don't mean in the unrealistic sense. Some of these flaws are actually due to basing it on Ultimates; namely, aliens are overused, flat enemies to superheroes in comparison to a good ol' supervillian like Kang or Red Skull or Ultron, and that is all due to Ultimates. The aliens are really not too interesting here, they only serve as something for the team to mobilize to fight. And with a cast of some NINE heroes, some of them naturally get neglected. Most of the focus is on Cap and Banner, with some secondary bits on Widow, Stark, and the Pym's. Thor basically has little more than an extended cameo, but ALL of his scenes were incredible. The music that would play whenever he used his mighty hammer just gave off a "godly" feel, and Dave Boat ate up the few lines he had. The other major flaw is that 71 minutes felt too short to really give it their all; another 15-30 minutes devoted to some characterization and interaction, one of the stronge bits of Ultimates, would have helped it. The sequal, by the sneak preview, seems to delve more into the histories of the others (like Thor), but most movies are at least beyond 80 minutes for good reason. Lastly, some of the voices were better than others, and while most of the cast was strong, D'Abo, who is normally so solid on JLU, really hammed up her lines with Widow with her thick Russian fake accent and made all of them sound worse than they could have been. It hampered her acting a little. And yes, the story was very simple and straightfoward.

More on the positive. Captain America was handled well, with the opening being very classy. Most of the voice actors do their job well, although Wordon will never be as good an Iron Man as Robert Hayes was. The action sequences were all incredible, especially that Hulk fight. The animation was a step above all of Marvel's TV fare and the music was about as theatrical as anything from the Timmverse. Cap did sound "young" at times, but when he gave orders he had a little more authority to his voice, and one has to recall, Cap would have been in his mid-20's likely in WW2 and he was just unthawed. I think it also helped Cap come off as more like a person than some perfect icon like Superman. Giant-Man's actor really sold the role well; every line came off as arrogant. I could go on about a lot of those scenes that made the Marvel Zombie in me smile, from the Rebirth chamber to Thor being the only person to fight Hulk solo for any length of time to Cap's inability to quit when everything was on the line, to Ross managing to plead the Hulk down in the end, being the one person Banner would never want to hurt.

Hopefully the second installment will improve on the first, although introducing a new Avenger while many of the founders still need development may not be wise. And it definately needs to be longer and bolder. Still, from the opening sequence to the final CLANG of Cap's mighty sheild, this special merely reminded me of some of the reasons why I love Marvel, which is so rare these days in the age of "shock the Internet in half!" over there. If you are a Marvel fan, a superhero fan and you expectations are not too high, then ULTIMATE AVENGERS should please you overall.
 
thank you dread now i KNOW i want to see this movie
 
3dman27 said:
thank you dread now i KNOW i want to see this movie
Cool.

Looking back, the lack of any definitive "villian" was one of the major flaws, but that honestly is not entirely the fault of the DTV; the first 13 issues of THE ULTIMATES lack any villians aside for the standard aliens and Kleiser, and in adapting the roots of the story, they also adapted those flaws. Even fans of ULTIMATES and ULTIMATES 2 usually complain about the lack of any real villians. On the other hand, would it really have been so hard to maybe redesign Kleiser a little and call him Red Skull?

Kleiser will return in ULTIMATE AVENGERS 2, but hopefully the franchise will proceed with more specials so we could perhaps see a Masters of Evil or something in ULTIMATE AVENGERS 3. The rise of a team of actual villians seems to be the biggest plot point of ULTIMATES 2 and I'd love for a third installment to the DTV franchise to focus in on that. It could be incredible.

I did watch the special features; the fan tryouts ranged from pathetic to...um, MORE pathetic.

There was also the 20 minute feature on "Assembling the Avengers", which was a mixed bag. They interview George Perez' and Kurt Busiek, as well as Joe Q (who looked absolutely TERRIBLE; I don't know if it was poor lighting or lack of makeup or whatever, but he almost looked like a piece of Jabba the Hutt that fell off and gained sentience), along with Mark Millar (I never knew his accent was so thick). It wasn't bad, but it basically skipped over much of the early years of the Avengers in exchange for focusing on Perez' start in the 70's, the relaunch in the 90's, and even some bits on Disassembled, the Earth's Mightiest Heroes mini from Casey, and naturally NEW AVENGERS. The lack of Stan Lee about the title's beginnings was a mistake to me; but then again, the X2 DVD neglected Dave Cockrum, so I suppose some idiocy exists in featurettes.

I can't help but comment on one bit from Joe, where he explains, "And then you have the traditionalists who raise their hand and say, 'Well, Spider-Man can't join the Avengers because of X, Y, and Z', but we started thinking, 'Well, what if he did', and then all these great stories started going out around that..."

Such a shame, in my opinion, that none of those great stories saw print. Instead we got NEW AVENGERS, which at best is inconsistant and underachieving.

ULTIMATE AVENGERS is far from a perfect work, and focusing on Black Panther when about half of the Avengers need more fleshwork may be a folly (done in the name of "creating" an Ultimate character), but it got me excited about Marvel Animation again, and that's priceless.
 
Savage said:
Yeah. Agreed.:up:

And about the alien thing, I'm a bit curious about that too. What WAS their purpose? Just show up and invade? And if so, why take so long? They should've striked while the earth was weak with Cap out of the picture and all. Oh well. They get as much backstory as they got in the actual arc so whatever.:D

Aside from some choppey animation, that was my biggest complaint on the film. It felt like there was absolutely no development on the villians. I still don't get what they were after. It was kinda unclear in the Ultimate books too.
 
All I have to say about Ultimate Avengers is that I'm glad I saw it for free. Because honestly, all it is, is vol. 1 without any of its complexity. How utterly disappointing.
 
You know, I was just watching some clips of Final Fantasy cut scenes. And they were ****ing beautiful. Maybe, if they had made Ultimate Avengers closer to the Ultimates books, they should have gone the cg rout and get animation like in the final antasy games.
 
The Question said:
You know, I was just watching some clips of Final Fantasy cut scenes. And they were ****ing beautiful. Maybe, if they had made Ultimate Avengers closer to the Ultimates books, they should have gone the cg rout and get animation like in the final antasy games.

that's basically what I've been saying from the beggining. they could, and SHOULD, have made a blockbuster out of this.
 
I'm not saying the animation was bad. It was pretty good for hand drawn animation on their budget. What I'm saying is that if they had gone the CGI rout, it would have looked much better and probably cost about the same. They should have gotten the guys who make the final fantasy cut scenes to animate it.
 
3dman27 said:
thank you dread now i KNOW i want to see this movie
andnow that i have this is my verdict:up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:
AVENGERS ASSEMBLE
 
The Question said:
I'm not saying the animation was bad. It was pretty good for hand drawn animation on their budget. What I'm saying is that if they had gone the CGI rout, it would have looked much better and probably cost about the same. They should have gotten the guys who make the final fantasy cut scenes to animate it.

:up:

that would have been **** worthy.
 

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