The Official "Ultimate Avengers" DVD Thread

[WalkingDead]

How expensive would that have been, do you think?

Ungodly Expensive...with the same budget, we'd gotten a 15-minute movie. CGI isn't always much more in-expensive. In fact in most cases you'll break even.

The only way they could have done a CGI Film with this budget would have been to skimp on lots of areas. So you'd not have hardly any real improvement over what we got...and it might have in fact looked a bit worse, depending on the production house used.

 

[WalkingDead]

that's basically what I've been saying from the beggining. they could, and SHOULD, have made a blockbuster out of this.

While I agree this could have been a Blockbuster of a movie...and in all honesty, it would have been nice to have a true full-length 85-100 minutes long movie with a Big Budget. The Ultimates does have a lot of potential to be a great full-length film one day. Maybe it'll happen, maybe it won't.

For what they were trying to accomplish I don't think Ultimate Avengers was bad at all. It hit right where they were pretty much aiming...minus a few misses with the Animation Quality.

 

[The Question]

Ungodly Expensive...with the same budget, we'd gotten a 15-minute movie. CGI isn't always much more in-expensive. In fact in most cases you'll break even.

The only way they could have done a CGI Film with this budget would have been to skimp on lots of areas. So you'd not have hardly any real improvement over what we got...and it might have in fact looked a bit worse, depending on the production house used.

Fair point. But damn, if they would have went for it, it would have kicked ass. Although, good video games usually have pretty good cut scenes, and they don't cost too much more than what Ultimate Avengers did. Maybe 10 or 15 bucks more at the most. But then, maybe I don't buy the more expensive video games.

 

[Dread]

Waitaminute...some of you wanted a CGI movie on par with FINAL FANTASY from a few years ago (which was, at the time, the PINNACLE of CGI animation)? That's very unrealistic. Not even Marvel's live-action movie franchises have thrown all their money into the debut title. X-MEN in 2000 was made with about $80 million dollars; which is short compared to the typical summer blockbuster (and it's sequal, X2, and the upcoming X3). Same with the first BLADE. Marvel paid the price for putting too much cash into a "first stab" with HULK, which cost some $200+ million to make and pretty much was a bomb before it had a shot.

I do agree that the movie wasn't as "complex" as the ULTIMATES in that it did not have the heroes intermingled with politics like the comics did. The flaw of that, though, is that infusing politics is going to divide your audience because not all of them are going to agree. And quite frankly, I get tired of movies that preach politics to me and would prefer sometimes to be transported into another world that doesn't lecture me about that stuff. Most moviegoers seem to agree, as the highest grossing movies of 2005 were STAR WARS, NARNIA, HARRY POTTER, BATMAN BEGINS, etc. All fantasy yarns. I would have liked some bit with the media, though. The comic also had Cap's first appearence in his new costume be this incredibly iconic sort of moment, and in the movie it was just, "oh, he's in costume now".

The lack of airtime for other characters is still my biggest complaint; true, Cap did own Ultimates #1-6 mostly, and at 71 minutes, any film would feel rushed. But, say, look at the sequence where the aliens bomb that SHIELD helicarrier; it seemed like 1-2 minutes of carnage passes, but our characters are not involved, and the craft was just introduced; I would have rathered that scene only lasted a few seconds or so in order to devote those precious minutes to characterization or so.

ULTIMATE AVENGERS isn't perfect, it is a work-in-progress, but I enjoyed it immensely. Hopefully the sequal will have more airtime and so on to improve on this.

 

[Matt]

Every character was developed well,and no Hollywood execs were able to get their hands on any of them,thank god.

The hell are you talking about? Every friggin character was a Hollywood cliche. You had the loner, the wise-ass arrogant "I should be the leader" guy. The uncertain, fish out of water leader. The loner. The tough girl. The military hard ass, yet loveable authoritarian, etc. Plus the entire story of the rag tag team coming together at the last minute was a Hollywood cliche.

You're right, no Hollywood exec got their hands on any of them...BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO! It was already Hollywood enough.

 

[Matt]

All I have to say about Ultimate Avengers is that I'm glad I saw it for free. Because honestly, all it is, is vol. 1 without any of its complexity. How utterly disappointing.

I gotta agree. I must admit, it seems to me a lot of the reviews of this movie on this board is fan boy gushing...because well...it sucked hard.

 

[Savage]

Marvel paid the price for putting too much cash into a "first stab" with HULK, which cost some $200+ million to make and pretty much was a bomb before it had a shot.

Boxofficemojo.com

Hulk
Production Budget: $137 million + Est. Marketing Costs: $35 million = $172 million grand total.

Domestic: $132,177,234 + Overseas: $113,107,712 = Worldwide: $245,284,946


...Sorry man, it just bugs me a little every time someone calls this movie a bomb...and Daredevil...and The Punisher...aaand the Fantastic Four...hell, I'm not even sure if Elektra bombed....Just what defines a bomb nowadays anyway? I thought it was making below even.

 

[CConn]

I believe it's below domestic even. So the Elektra bombed, Punisher bombed, but made it's money back in DVD sales, Hulk bombed enough to scare the hell out of Universal, and DD made enough to greenlight Elektra. FF was a definite financial success.

 

[Savage]

I gotta agree. I must admit, it seems to me a lot of the reviews of this movie on this board is fan boy gushing...because well...it sucked hard.

Actually the main problem people seem to have with this movie is that it wasn't a carbon copy of the book...It only used it for inspiration. I never figured they were gonna flat out copy it...In fact it's not even the same story and that came as a shock to people I guess...I'm sure if it was live action we'd have "It had to be changed to be translated to the screen" talks everywhere.

...And then there's the complaints about the animation which I don't get since people seem to gush over old marvel toons but apparantly this is "unadulterated s**t!".

 

[Savage]

I believe it's below domestic even. So the Elektra bombed, Punisher bombed, but made it's money back in DVD sales, Hulk bombed enough to scare the hell out of Universal, and DD made enough to greenlight Elektra. FF was a definite financial success.

Ah. Okay. Gotcha.

 

[Matt]

Actually the main problem people seem to have with this movie is that it wasn't a carbon copy of the book...It only used it for inspiration. I never figured they were gonna flat out copy it...In fact it's not even the same story and that came as a shock to people I guess...I'm sure if it was live action we'd have "It had to be changed to be translated to the screen" talks everywhere.

...And then there's the complaints about the animation which I don't get since people seem to gush over old marvel toons but apparantly this is "unadulterated s**t!".

I have no problem with it being a carbon copy or anything like that. I didn't mind the animation either.

The problem is it was just....bad. The story was cliche (rag tag group has to come together to save the world). It was rushed as well (We knew nothing about the aliens motivations, the character's pasts, etc). There was no character developments. Every character was a horrible cliche (see above post). And finally, it was anti-climactic. The alien threat, that the entire movie built up to...was done in about 5 minutes with very little troube. Then the Hulk went crazy out of no where.

I seriously wonder if the producers pretty much said:

Producer 1: Aliens defeated! We, are, outta here!
Producer 2: Umm, chief, the run time is only about 50 minutes.
Producer 1:..........oh......ummm.....JUST TURN THE HULK EVIL! THAT'LL KILL SOME TIME!

 

[Savage]

lol. Wow. I never thought of it that way...Meh. Didn't say it was a smart movie. I see what you mean though.

 

[CConn]

Did you read the actual comics, Matt?

I sorta wonder how much of your complaints stem from the comics themselves...

 

[Matt]

Did you read the actual comics, Matt?

I sorta wonder how much of your complaints stem from the comics themselves...

I've read The Ultimates TPBs, both one and two.

And none. In the comics, the characters are fleshed out. Hank Pym isn't just an arrogant jerk. We learn he comes off as an arrogant jerk because he has an inferiority complex bigger than the 60 feet he can transform into. Thor isn't a belching jackass. We know why billionaire Tony Stark does what he does even though he doesn't have to. We know what the aliens are, what their motivations are, etc. The plots aren't rushed, but are built up to. The climaxes and payoffs are there.

 

[WalkingDead]

Actually the main problem people seem to have with this movie is that it wasn't a carbon copy of the book...It only used it for inspiration. I never figured they were gonna flat out copy it...In fact it's not even the same story and that came as a shock to people I guess...I'm sure if it was live action we'd have "It had to be changed to be translated to the screen" talks everywhere.

...And then there's the complaints about the animation which I don't get since people seem to gush over old marvel toons but apparantly this is "unadulterated s**t!".

I agree with you about what seems to stem out as the major problem most have with it.


Also, the reason why people gush about the old stuff is to them, it's now "old and out-dated", but they grew up on it, so they enjoy it more. It doesn't seem like a bad thing, cause it's old.
So when they see new Animation, they immediately think it has to be better because it is newer...has to have a higher budget cause it's new, has to look better cause it's new, new standards and all that. However, most people don't think about how much Animation can cost.

 

[WalkingDead]

Fair point. But damn, if they would have went for it, it would have kicked ass. Although, good video games usually have pretty good cut scenes, and they don't cost too much more than what Ultimate Avengers did. Maybe 10 or 15 bucks more at the most. But then, maybe I don't buy the more expensive video games.

The "15 Minute long movie" thing was an exaggeration...in all honesty we would have gotten about 25-40 minute long movie if they would have used high-end CGI production houses.

Also, most video games with great CGI Cut Scenes, only have a total of about 15-30 minutes worth of cut scenes, if not less.

 

[WalkingDead]

I have no problem with it being a carbon copy or anything like that. I didn't mind the animation either.

The problem is it was just....bad. The story was cliche (rag tag group has to come together to save the world). It was rushed as well (We knew nothing about the aliens motivations, the character's pasts, etc). There was no character developments. Every character was a horrible cliche (see above post). And finally, it was anti-climactic. The alien threat, that the entire movie built up to...was done in about 5 minutes with very little troube. Then the Hulk went crazy out of no where.

I seriously wonder if the producers pretty much said:

Producer 1: Aliens defeated! We, are, outta here!
Producer 2: Umm, chief, the run time is only about 50 minutes.
Producer 1:..........oh......ummm.....JUST TURN THE HULK EVIL! THAT'LL KILL SOME TIME!

Hehe...I'll agree it's not a great movie...but then again I liked it a lot cause I expected it to be a rushed, low-budget thing.

The reason it has all the bad points you mention is because they tried to condense 6+ issues of comics into a 70 minute long, mid-level budgeted project. If the movie would have been 20 minutes longer, we'd have gotten much more character development and motivations for the Chitauri.

Is it a smart DTV? No.
Is it a high-end DTV? No.

But I still enjoyed it a lot...Mainly cause I liked how they handled the action sequences and Captain America. Plus the Avengers vs. Hulk fight to me was well done and well thought out as far as an action piece goes.

I'm sorry you didn't like, I agree that I really hope Dr. Strange and Iron Man are much better. But remember this is the first time out for Marvel in their new Animated DTV's...I think they'll get much better as time goes on.

 

[ObakeTora]

The hell are you talking about? Every friggin character was a Hollywood cliche. You had the loner, the wise-ass arrogant "I should be the leader" guy. The uncertain, fish out of water leader. The loner. The tough girl. The military hard ass, yet loveable authoritarian, etc. Plus the entire story of the rag tag team coming together at the last minute was a Hollywood cliche.

You're right, no Hollywood exec got their hands on any of them...BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO! It was already Hollywood enough.

truer words have never been said.


I only liked the DVD because the Avengers were in it. Yet I felt sorely reproached by the horrible animation quality. It seems like the people that did Rescue Heroes are the same people responsible for the look and feel of this dvd. The voice acting was horribly out of place, and the animations imply to me that the artists need to cut down on the caffeine and acid. I expected too much I beleive with this DVD. This is why we need anime. Sure alot of you think it sucks because of the craptastic crap that permeates hostility towards this art form, but imagine an anime studio owned by Marvel. Secret Wars could resemble Akira, and so on. But no, we get "Challenge of the Go-bots" revisited, only this time the cell sheets are glossier. go fig.

Im going back to the Spiderman Forums.

 

[The Question]

Waitaminute...some of you wanted a CGI movie on par with FINAL FANTASY from a few years ago (which was, at the time, the PINNACLE of CGI animation)? That's very unrealistic. Not even Marvel's live-action movie franchises have thrown all their money into the debut title. X-MEN in 2000 was made with about $80 million dollars; which is short compared to the typical summer blockbuster (and it's sequal, X2, and the upcoming X3). Same with the first BLADE. Marvel paid the price for putting too much cash into a "first stab" with HULK, which cost some $200+ million to make and pretty much was a bomb before it had a shot.

I do agree that the movie wasn't as "complex" as the ULTIMATES in that it did not have the heroes intermingled with politics like the comics did. The flaw of that, though, is that infusing politics is going to divide your audience because not all of them are going to agree. And quite frankly, I get tired of movies that preach politics to me and would prefer sometimes to be transported into another world that doesn't lecture me about that stuff. Most moviegoers seem to agree, as the highest grossing movies of 2005 were STAR WARS, NARNIA, HARRY POTTER, BATMAN BEGINS, etc. All fantasy yarns. I would have liked some bit with the media, though. The comic also had Cap's first appearence in his new costume be this incredibly iconic sort of moment, and in the movie it was just, "oh, he's in costume now".

The lack of airtime for other characters is still my biggest complaint; true, Cap did own Ultimates #1-6 mostly, and at 71 minutes, any film would feel rushed. But, say, look at the sequence where the aliens bomb that SHIELD helicarrier; it seemed like 1-2 minutes of carnage passes, but our characters are not involved, and the craft was just introduced; I would have rathered that scene only lasted a few seconds or so in order to devote those precious minutes to characterization or so.

ULTIMATE AVENGERS isn't perfect, it is a work-in-progress, but I enjoyed it immensely. Hopefully the sequal will have more airtime and so on to improve on this.

Well, I wasn't saying that I wanted it as much as it would have been really cool. I kind of realized that it probably wouldn't have happened.

 

[JackBauer]

Matt... AH-FRIGGIN-MEN!!!

 

[YJ1]

Waitaminute...some of you wanted a CGI movie on par with FINAL FANTASY from a few years ago (which was, at the time, the PINNACLE of CGI animation)? That's very unrealistic.

And quite frankly, I get tired of movies that preach politics to me and would prefer sometimes to be transported into another world that doesn't lecture me about that stuff. Most moviegoers seem to agree, as the highest grossing movies of 2005 were STAR WARS, NARNIA, HARRY POTTER, BATMAN BEGINS, etc. All fantasy yarns.

ULTIMATE AVENGERS isn't perfect, it is a work-in-progress, but I enjoyed it immensely. Hopefully the sequal will have more airtime and so on to improve on this.

I thought Ultimate Avengers was near perfect and really couldn't have expected more. Keeping the "Ultimate" BS to a minimum was a SEVERE improvement in my opinion. It's true, Avengers is no place for lefty political stabs or rants.

Personally, I thought the animation was excellent. I loved the way Cap's shield seem to glimmer in almost every scene. The battle sequences were phenomenal. I watched the movie with those "factoid" bubbles activated and they mentioned some interesting items about the complexity of the animation. The characters looked great. Iron Man looked ten times better then he does in the Ultimates book.

A very good effort all around here and I hope they don't change one thing for Avengers 2.

 

[The Question]

I thought Ultimate Avengers was near perfect and really couldn't have expected more. Keeping the "Ultimate" BS to a minimum was a SEVERE improvement in my opinion. It's true, Avengers is no place for lefty political stabs or rants.

Actually, there have been some Avengers stories in the past that had to do with political issues, many of them centering around Captain America.

 

[spidey-dude]

i actually really enjoyed the film and look forward to number 2

 

[Dread]

I actually haven't watched the movie yet with the "factoid" bubbles. I just may the next time.

 

[3dman27]

I thought Ultimate Avengers was near perfect and really couldn't have expected more. Keeping the "Ultimate" BS to a minimum was a SEVERE improvement in my opinion. It's true, Avengers is no place for lefty political stabs or rants.

i can agree withthat