The official X-Manips thread

[afmvdp]

Oh please, let off her usage of that word. Nazi is a legitimate political term. It would be a historical inaccuracy to graph the actions of Hitler totally and absoultey into the singular term Nazi, which is in fact an acronymn in the first place. Not to sound horrible un-PC, but the term "Grammar Nazi" is hardly a critiquable usage. It's a description of a hardline stance on grammar , with hardline extremity being a characteristic of the Nazi party, extreme right-wing. Past that, the connotations between Grammar Nazi and historical Nazi stops. She does not mean Hitler nazism, with people who don't know the difference between dangling modifers and comma splices being murdered in mass numbers.

If you want to disagree or argue or debate with Comic Queen, debate her on the facts pertinent to the topic on hand. Not trivalities such as the above.

one of the most ignorant things I've read on this board since the "ultimate colossus is gay" thread. Congrats! Thanks for being the context al qaeda

 

[bosef982]

one of the most ignorant things I've read on this board since the "ultimate colossus is gay" thread. Congrats! Thanks for being the context al qaeda

I'm ignorant? Yet you respond to a post with a flippant, self-relative remark that does nothing more than offer pedantic sarcasm attempting to be guised as something of a self-evident retort. Please...try again.

There are certains terms that can be used. Nazism was an extreme right-wing movement that PREDATED Hitler. If I am ignorant for stating a historical fact, then I am ignorant for stating a historical fact. The Worker's Party, which arose prior to Hitler's introduction, and made great gains as a legitmate right-wing party within the government WITHOUT Hitler's assitance, represented an extreme right-wing view of German society. They were hallmarked by a unique stubborness and extremism. They were, for lack of a better comparison, the Evangelical Right Wing movement of America today in terms of fervor, not substance.

After Hitler was sent into the organization by the German gov't to investigate them (some believed the infant Nazi party had Communist tendancies ironically), Hitler blended in. Yet, he, like many Germans at the time desperate and feeling burdened by what is a historically regarded unfair Treaty of Versailles, was drawn to the nationalist (extreme) message of the Worker's Party. He quickly grew friends, moving his way up and then painted HIS horrible anti-semetic views (which were gotten by such men as Karl Lueger, Austrian Mayor I blieve who was a raging anti-semetic, amongst others). Hitler, within the Nazi Party, NOT THE NAZI PARTY, utlized their message and redirected it against the Jews and lower class, speaking to the large middle class that was struggling in the depression. A prime tool was the use of the fear of Communists (the poor would plunder the middle and high class in a revolution) to gain votes. And they did.

Now, don't act like being anti-semetic's a crime back then. We are kind and leinent to our own forefather's patent racism against Indians and Blacks. I see no reason why we should be tolerant of German anti-semintism, since it was racist trend shared in both France, England, and EVEN AMERICA at the time. Yes, America had a large anti-semetic population. I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying, brandishing the term Nazi in this respect would be the equivelant to throwing the term Democrat out of the book and call it un-PC jsut because they were part of the Confederates during hte Civil War. It must be judged in the context of the times -- anti-semitism was rampant back then.

Even still, the NAZI part as a whole outside of Hitler instituted programs that, despite whatever sentimenal value you wish to block it with, did produce changes inside the country. Recreational programs, mandatory educational programs were all cornerstones of the Nazi platform -- devised by Nazi leaders who could care less about hating Jews. Did you know Nazis were one of the first to institute warnings against smoking? Anyways, so, overall, Nazi's introduced legislation that would buffer the birth rate (Victorian idealism saw a nations population a sign of virility) clean up a war impoverished Germany. It succeeded for the most part, was HAILED in the United STates for doing so. Being that these "lower Nazi" officials worked hard to do this, Hitler, now firmly in place as the Nazi figurehead, was able to take all the credit.

It was Hitler's goals that later polluted the image of Nazism. What he did...was it wrong? Of course, no one argues about that. Just as it was wrong for Stalin to exterminate millions of his own countrymen to save his nation. Just as it was wrong of America to nearly exterminate, on a plan that Hitler could only dream of (of course, we had more time) an entire race of indigenous people over the course of two centuries. Yep, just as wrong. However, does that mean the term Nazi, Communist, and American should forever be stained bythose extreme, misguided individuals who so happened to pervert the platform of said groups into something that would allow their own agendas to be realized?

I would say no. For the sake of comfortable and American-centric history, Germany in WWII and WWI have been painted in a less nuanced picture than is really due. There are nuances, their are gray areas, and just becaues they make people uncomfortable, doesn't mean history doesn't acknowledge them as existing. How many NAZIS tried to kill Hitler? Many, some actually tried, like Schrofenberg (horrid spelling, I forget) a one handed (and even that hand was deformed) war veteran who planted a bomb in Hitler's country villa. It exploded, HItler lived by the grace of a large table leg. Hitler than promptly executed these men for their "crimes". Now, did these men and others throw in their Nazi badges. No, they felt the ideas of Nazism (right-wing socialism I guess you could say) were right for Germany. But they felt that Hitler was becoming immoral (many Germans and Nazis alike were disgusted by the concentration camps). Also, one cannot underestimate the impact of psychology in how such horrible crimes could have happened in the first place against Jews.

Very litle of what happened in concentration camps between 1939-1945 had to do with Nazism. It had to do with Hitler, his gang of thugs, and the influence of "groupthink" on scared, desperate, penniless masses.

It has really become time for WWII to join the rest of those historical events that we review objectively with the littlest traces of sentimentality possible, and the highest amounts of devotion to truth present. If the latter is followed, you'd find yourself much more conflicted on what actually happened in WII, instead of indignantly comfortable of the fact that you live in a former allied nation that is so above those things done in Germany. If you honestly think you do, you are the one who is igonrant.

 

[tylerdurden_890]

just got done with a manip of josh holloway as gambit. i have done one of him before but heres a new one. i hope you like it

. please tell your thoughts.
here it is:

 

[afmvdp]

Yes there certainly was far more to the history of the NSDAP, but they elected Hitler because he embodied their facist beliefs. Just as the swastika is an ancient symbol that has been used for over 3,000 years. The undeniable fact of the matter though is NOW, in the present, the word Nazi or Nazism is associated to most with the dictatorship of Nazi Germany by Hitler from '33 to '45, just as is the same with the symbol of the swastika. Don't know about you but I don't see too many greeting cards being released with a swastika for good luck on them anymore, nor do we see any current German Socialists wanting to be associated with Nazis. There's a reason for this, despite of what it WAS it has changed in public image into what it IS.

But sure, you're right, guess time heals all wounds right? should I tell that to my great grandparents that died in the camps? Yeah.. just get over it, it's been what, 60 years, just let it go already!

Btw, does this also mean we can forget the crusades, spanish inquisition, the decimation of the native americans, american slave trade of asian and african people. Hell, we live in a fast paced world, 9-11 was already like what 4 years ago? that's almost half a decade? That's longer than most popstars careers. So let's just call the whole thing forgotten.

the saddest thing is how much you're completely oblivious to your lack of understanding. It is only by remembering the past that we can ever hope to learn from it. The apathy all too common with people these days is the most obvious signs of our social decay. Btw, it's easy for anyone to cut and paste, go read a few books for yourself first.

 

[SuperBoon]

SB i love that logo you've made. Which program did you use?

Hi BB, The software that I am using is 3D Studio max 7, this is CGI software and has been used for loads of different things from movies : The Matrix trilogies special effects ie the burly brawl in reloaded - To games : Metal gear solid 3 & 2 - To posters : Xmen 3 teaser poster and the Superman Returns poster and loads more.

-SB

 

[WormyT]

Why are people fighting about what someone said("Nazi"), about what another person said, about another person.
LOL!
This is a manip thread, not Hannity and Combes.

 

[SuperBoon]

Why are people fighting about what someone said, about what another person said, about another person.
LOL!
This is a manip thread, not Hannity and Combes.

yeah, it's getting really strange in here, anyway who wants to argue about the price of bread

 

[N_z0]

Hi BB, The software that I am using is 3D Studio max 7, this is CGI software and has been used for loads of different things from movies : The Matrix trilogies special effects ie the burly brawl in reloaded - To games : Metal gear solid 3 & 2 - To posters : Xmen 3 teaser poster and the Superman Returns poster and loads more.

-SB

Have you tried Softimage XSI? I gotta say it's much better for modeling than Maya and 3d max. I just don't get why companies don't use the program, when they (including their employees) acknowledge its superiority over the other two. I wanna learn Zbrush tho.

 

[SuperBoon]

Have you tried Softimage XSI? I gotta say it's much better for modeling than Maya and 3d max. I just don't get why companies don't use the program, when they (including their employees) acknowledge its superiority over the other two. I wanna learn Zbrush tho.

Wasn't XSI used for Fantastic Four? I actually got Max as a gift so I'll stick with that for now (you probably know this software doesn't come cheap!!) As far as Zbrush goes, until I get fully trained with max I'll probably leave it for now, but it's supposedly top notch for displacement maps and such, great for photo realistic modelling apparently.

-SB

 

[bosef982]

Yes there certainly was far more to the history of the NSDAP, but they elected Hitler because he embodied their facist beliefs. Just as the swastika is an ancient symbol that has been used for over 3,000 years. The undeniable fact of the matter though is NOW, in the present, the word Nazi or Nazism is associated to most with the dictatorship of Nazi Germany by Hitler from '33 to '45, just as is the same with the symbol of the swastika. Don't know about you but I don't see too many greeting cards being released with a swastika for good luck on them anymore, nor do we see any current German Socialists wanting to be associated with Nazis. There's a reason for this, despite of what it WAS it has changed in public image into what it IS.

But sure, you're right, guess time heals all wounds right? should I tell that to my great grandparents that died in the camps? Yeah.. just get over it, it's been what, 60 years, just let it go already!

Btw, does this also mean we can forget the crusades, spanish inquisition, the decimation of the native americans, american slave trade of asian and african people. Hell, we live in a fast paced world, 9-11 was already like what 4 years ago? that's almost half a decade? That's longer than most popstars careers. So let's just call the whole thing forgotten.

the saddest thing is how much you're completely oblivious to your lack of understanding. It is only by remembering the past that we can ever hope to learn from it. The apathy all too common with people these days is the most obvious signs of our social decay. Btw, it's easy for anyone to cut and paste, go read a few books for yourself first.

Did I say to forget it? Did I say to swipe it all under the rug? No. I did not. I'm telling your grandparents to get over it. But what I am saying is that one a segment of a larger whole cannot become the medium by which the whole is judged. We hear this when African-Americans get angry at "White People" as if all "white people" are responsible for that issue. Many white people get frusterated over this -- they didn't do anything or couldn't do anything about it. So, we make allowances, we make understandings, and we assimilate the nuances of history into our perceptions of those events. We say racist whites, we say imperalist Americans, we say religous fanatics -- we don't say Whites, Americans, or Christians. What happened in Germany was horrific, yes, no one denies this. However, there are matters of historical truth that supercede whatever emotional appeal you or I could make to graft all Nazis and all Germans into some categorical perjorative.

Don't take offense where there isn't any -- don't search for wrongs when what I'm doing, what I've always done, is to seek to understand the truth of history (I study history in school, what I'm going to be, professor) with as little as bias as possible -- that's emotional, national, personal, spiritual, whatever.

But if I were to come up to you and say, "You know what, f-k white people! White people, Souther Whites, Republicans killed my acnestors and blew up those four little girls in that Burmingham church! White people are evil!" You would say, hey now, you're making quite a sweeping generalization there. Too which I'd say, "well, should I just get over it, tell my dead acnestors to get over it! Did you see what they did?!!" Emotional travesty does not alter historical truth.

It is not Nazism's problem that it is associated with Hitler and his actions during WWII. It is history's problem that it is STILL associate ONLY with that and that a fuller picture to this day isn't been painted.

And it's a falsity that the way we learn how to not make the mistakes of the past is to remember and not forget them. I don't even agree with the phrase "the only thing we learn from the past is that we learn nothing from the past". I think, the only thing we learn from the past, is how to do it better and not get caught next time. Review history closely -- especially American history -- this all we do.

I don't mean offesne to you, dude. And you're making me slide out of my comic booky talk into my history writer's voice which on here, comes off fairly pretentious and egotistical, which I like to think I'm anything but. Tragedy's everywhere, but I think, to make it better, we have to see the balance, the nuances (I love that word!) to everything. The plight of the African- American in America is not AS bad when we take into account how many whites were truly attempting to help -- not enough -- but some. Those Moira MacTaggerts and Nick Furys are what we need to focus on. IN the Nazi party, people may shoot me for this, there were heroes as well as villians. Thus, I feel, there is no single brush to paint a truly accurate picture of the Nazis -- it's far too complex for that. And emotional tramau, emotional appeals (which are logical fallacies) cannot alter the canvas on which history is painted.

You know, Hitler killed homosexuals by the truckloads as well. Yet, I can say these things. You may say, well they weren't your ancestors. Or not as many as the Jews! You may not say it like that -- but you'd say perhaps, "It's not the same" -- that's safe. But, see -- can you really relegate tragedy and genocide to mere numbers. Do we say, at 10,000, it's genocide. Or do we view it as concepts. By that nature, what happened to Jews, elderly, handicap, homosexuals was all the same -- you can't compare pain like that. So, you throw your grandparents at me, I could -- COULD -- throw my seuxlaity at you, or my race really. But those are immaterial to the fact of WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.

Now, I step down from my soapbox, patt you on the shoulder, smile and tell, "I never meant offense, just try to understand where I'm coming from..."

 

[newwaveboy87]

STOP THE FIGHTING!

this is far off topic it's not even funny. drop it, both of you. i don't want to see this thread closed down.

please.

 

[N_z0]

Wasn't XSI used for Fantastic Four? I actually got Max as a gift so I'll stick with that for now (you probably know this software doesn't come cheap!!) As far as Zbrush goes, until I get fully trained with max I'll probably leave it for now, but it's supposedly top notch for displacement maps and such, great for photo realistic modelling apparently.

-SB

The Matrix films wasn't just exclusively done on Max, they also used Soft. Anyways, i understand the hesitation, seeing as you actually bought the licensed version. Also, i haven't touched Max since highschool, so i'm not really one to talk.

zbrush intrigues me in that it has a unique interface and it makes you feel like you're actually sculpting the model as opposed to just moving points/polys around. The negative though in having a program like Zbrush is its difficulty in making models from scratch. You still have to import basic models from programs like max/maya/soft. At my previous work, models were done in Maya, textured in Photoshop, but polished in Zbrush, and i'm telling you, it really adds some depth to the characters, that ao map does wonders.

just curious, is it also called 'Zed'-brush in the US or is that just in British colonies?

 

[afmvdp]

bosef you're way off base, but I'm dropping this here. You want to debate this out, check my profile for contacts and I'll be more than happy to point out why you're wrong. This just isn't the place and it's gone on too long already.

 

[tedw]

Wasn't XSI used for Fantastic Four? I actually got Max as a gift so I'll stick with that for now (you probably know this software doesn't come cheap!!) As far as Zbrush goes, until I get fully trained with max I'll probably leave it for now, but it's supposedly top notch for displacement maps and such, great for photo realistic modelling apparently.

-SB

Try becoming a student or working at a university My campus store offers its students and staff discounts on software, so for example, Maya - which is listed at the program's official site as costing a few thou - sells for a few hundred. Talk about a discount!

I've played with Zbrush but it's kinda weird for making a new model, to echo N_z0.

 

[N_z0]

but isn't that an Educational version meaning it's not the Full version of the program...or you can just get the crack version.

 

[afmvdp]

in most cases the educational version is EXACTLY the same as a full version of software. Somtimes there are minor differences such as no retail box or digital only manual, but 90% of the time there is no actual capability differences. Heck you can often even get educational discounts on hardware if you know where to search.

 

[N_z0]

in most cases the educational version is EXACTLY the same as a full version of software. Somtimes there are minor differences such as no retail box or digital only manual, but 90% of the time there is no actual capability differences. Heck you can often even get educational discounts on hardware if you know where to search.

You're probably right. I never really bothered looking into Educational versions coz even with the discounts it's still too much dough...and really nothing beats getting it for free.

 

[MoPlaYa]

I cant wait until 11-30-05!!

 

[-Æ-]

Here is something i did for the "Goddess" Thread. Decided to post it on here since its a small manip, wasn't that difficult. Done in Photoshop CS2 and FX8.

Japanese text spells out Megami or "Goddess".

 

[Lazmarquez]

Just finished this Illustration/Vector Design I fiddled with of Jean Grey.

 

[JP]

Its so... funky tokyo pop. Me likes.

 

[C_T]

Not much of a manip here, more like messing around with the colors. Tried giving her the X-men animated series cartoon uniform look, but in a not so bright, I look like a clown kind of way. Tried keeping it subtle. Tweaked the hair a bit too. Made it whiter. Again subtle. Also, I was going to give this a background image, but I got lazy.

Laz...I enjoy your work by the way. Great stuff.

 

[Psionic Force]

Awesome Laz! It is my new desktop!

 

[Lazmarquez]

Here's a Different Design approach with the same vector I used in the last Manip I created.

 

[newwaveboy87]

i like how it looks like you took a Pontiac firebird's logo and put Jean's head on it

tres cool