BvS The Official Zack Snyder Directs Everything Thread - Part 2

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

Whats sad is I think the introspective/alien/doubting supes angle couldve worked amazingly well in making him relatable to present day audiences, but it was done poorly in MOS and then dragged out and drilled to death in BvS.

 

[baerrtt]

I've been a comic collector pretty much all of my life. Do want to know how many Superman graphic novels I thought were amazing;

All Star Superman
Superman for All Seasons
Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow
John Byrne's Man of Steel
Superman Red Son

The character is very, very hard to get right. Especially in a very cynical 21st century.

And yet Captain America is currently popular with 21st century audiences.

 

[spider-neil]

And yet Captain America is currently popular with 21st century audiences.

Different comic universe with completely different sensibilities.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

I think these movies should continue that tone and go for the jugular, but there needs to be a limit and Snyder needs a creative collaborator to keep everything in check.
.

you dont think they've gone for the jugular yet

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

 

[Loki882]

Same principle though. Heck Marvel even managed to do the whole "lets take goody two-shoes Captain America, stick him in a more morally grey/hazy modern world, and challenge his traditional values, while still maintaining the core of who he is." It was called Captain America: The Winter Soldier and it blows this movie out of the water in terms of quality.

 

[kguillou]

Oh for sure they have, and I think thats the correct impulse. Even though I agree these films need to lighten up a bit I also don't want them to be cookie cutter superhero movies that will be forgotten as soon as they are out of theater. For better or worse, BvS is going to be intensely discussed and debated for years to come. I don't mind controversial, bold decisions, but I agree they can be handled better.

 

[baerrtt]

Different comic universe with completely different sensibilities.

The character of Steve Rogers, which the films themselves have emphasized, is old-fashioned yet Joss Whedon and The Russo Bros have made him work for current audiences.

After IRON MAN, and people falling in love with with RDJ's snarky interpretation of the title character, I honestly didn't think casuals in 2011 would buy Mr Red, White and Blue...but the writers, directors AND Chris Evans made it work.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

if it fails at the box office like it looks to be doing there will not be much debate generated by this movie - its a failure.

 

[Samurai_Adam]

I truly hope Snyder gets to complete his trilogy, he's 2 for 2 for me.

I hope he stays on beyond as a producer to

Same here. Loved MoS, and loved BvS even more.

 

[DeadPresident]

More evidence that mods don't actually give a **** about the BvS boards as a place where different perspectives can be discussed.

Everywhere else on the Hype when it seems like someone might incite negative comments about Marvel the mods are out in force, here it's almost encouraged.

 

[DeadPresident]

Whats sad is I think the introspective/alien/doubting supes angle couldve worked amazingly well in making him relatable to present day audiences, but it was done poorly in MOS and then dragged out and drilled to death in BvS.

The weird thing is if you ask a lot of the GA they'll say they liked MoS, and if you ask a lot of fans here they'll tell you MoS achieved exactly what you're exclaiming (as fact, lol) that it didn't.

Repeat after me: My opinion is not law, what I actually mean although I'm bad at expressing it is, I didn't personally enjoy that particular film.

Not that difficult, is it?

 

[spider-neil]

Also, bear in mind Cap is a man. He wasn't sent to earth in a rocket ship. He is an American not an Alien. He doesn't have the power to literally tear down the White House with his bear hands. Superman can't be hurt killed (). very difficult to make that relatable and I've been reading for years and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen it done successfully. Updating Superman on the big screen for a modern audience in the ultra realistic DCU is a very difficult task than adapting Captain America for the big screen in the bright and optimistic world of the MCU.

 

[Loki882]

Perhaps they should have thought about that BEFORE they went the "ultra realistic," route. Because if you deliberately set up a cinematic universe where its really hard to fit in one of your three flagship characters, then there's probably a problem at the conception state of things.

Also it cannot be THAT "ultra realistic," given what we see in BVS and what appears to be in both SS and WW.

 

[DKDetective]

I've been a comic collector pretty much all of my life. Do want to know how many Superman graphic novels I thought were amazing;

All Star Superman
Superman for All Seasons
Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow
John Byrne's Man of Steel
Superman Red Son

The character is very, very hard to get right. Especially in a very cynical 21st century.

I'm sorry but I don't really buy the cynical 21st century issue. The 1970s was just as much a time of darkness and cynicism. The President of the United States was resigning because of proven criminal allegations, the US was just humiliated in a controversial war. The world was in economic stagflation, which economists had no idea how to fix. People had 20% interest rates on their mortgages! It was a dark time with a lot of cynicism and uncertainty and Hollywood's output reflected that with antihero films like Dirty Harry and The French Connection or films deconstructing the American Dream like The Godfather or movies about corruption like Serpico. Nevertheless, the bright and hopeful Donner Superman did gangbusters because people were still looking for something hopeful and escapist because it allowed them to believe in something better.

Superman doesn't really need an update for the 21st century, the core of what he is is appealing to us in dark times, which is why it seems like a lot of critics were hoping for a more archetypal Superman from this.

But even if I am wrong on the above, WB had the perfect playbook for a modern Superman in a graphic novel in Mark Waid's Superman Birthright. It has a likeable, proactive, heroic Clark Kent who is faced with cynicism of the 21st century.

 

[Xandrea]

The character is very, very hard to get right. Especially in a very cynical 21st century.

And how would you know? How would anyone know? Every attempt so far has focused on being as joyless and cynical as possible. We had stalker Superman. We had mopey Superman twice. And all over the world these approaches had people disappointed and clamoring for a hopeful and bright Superman movie. Maybe the studio should give people whst they want instead of telling them what they want. Hmmm?

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

More evidence that mods don't actually give a **** about the BvS boards as a place where different perspectives can be discussed.

Everywhere else on the Hype when it seems like someone might incite negative comments about Marvel the mods are out in force, here it's almost encouraged.

I'm assuming this was directed at me? given:

The weird thing is if you ask a lot of the GA they'll say they liked MoS, and if you ask a lot of fans here they'll tell you MoS achieved exactly what you're exclaiming (as fact, lol) that it didn't.

I liked MOS, but it's a flawed movie, I would say its box office and ratings (which are all we have to go by tbh. not RT critics, but fan ratings) pretty much show it was a good-not great movie. As to BvS, same situation really.

At no point did I do anything other than state my opinion. I do not feel it is universal, though I can point to things and say I sure aint alone.

Repeat after me: My opinion is not law, what I actually mean although I'm bad at expressing it is, I didn't personally enjoy that particular film.

Not that difficult, is it?

That's just kind of a given on a you know, discussion forum. Maybe you need to stick to the positivity thread?

 

[baerrtt]

I'm sorry but I don't really buy the cynical 21st century issue. The 1970s was just as much a time of darkness and cynicism. The President of the United States was resigning because of proven criminal allegations, the US was just humiliated in a controversial war. The world was in economic stagflation, which economists had no idea how to fix. People had 20% interest rates on their mortgages! It was a dark time with a lot of cynicism and uncertainty and Hollywood's output reflected that with antihero films like Dirty Harry and The French Connection or films deconstructing the American Dream like The Godfather or movies about corruption like Serpico. Nevertheless, the bright and hopeful Donner Superman did gangbusters because people were still looking for something hopeful and escapist because it allowed them to believe in something better.

Superman doesn't really need an update for the 21st century, the core of what he is is appealing to us in dark times, which is why it seems like a lot of critics were hoping for a more archetypal Superman from this.

But even if I am wrong on the above, WB had the perfect playbook for a modern Superman in a graphic novel in Mark Waid's Superman Birthright. It has a likeable, proactive, heroic Clark Kent who is faced with cynicism of the 21st century.

That's something that people tend to forget...STM was being conceived in an era where mass audiences where cheering for a character like Travis Bickle mowing down pimps in TAXI DRIVER's finale.

If Donner thought like Snyder did the resulting film would have been very different.

 

[DeadPresident]

And how would you know? How would anyone know. Every attempt so far has focused on being as joyless and cynical as possible. We had stalker Superman. We had mopey Superman twice. And all over the world these approaches had people disappointed and clamoring for a hopeful and bright Superman movie. Maybe the studio should give people whst they want instead of telling them what they want. Hmmm?

Besides the ridiculous assumptions in this inane post, I love that you assume you can speak for the audience.

 

[Loki882]

I liked MOS as well. It has some issues, but I still like it and I've defended it for years now. And I was defending THIS movie against those who were dismissing it based on very little info.

So imagine my disappointment when it turned out to be, not good.

 

[Slade W]

Watch the Director's Cut.

The Theatrical Cut leaves out too much information

The Ultimate Cut is the Director's Cut with the cartoon inserted. Makes the movie way too long for too little pay off of the cartoon.

Thanks.

 

[Xandrea]

Also, bear in mind Cap is a man. He wasn't sent to earth in a rocket ship. He is an American not an Alien. He doesn't have the power to literally tear down the White House with his bear hands. Superman can't be hurt killed (). very difficult to make that relatable and I've been reading for years and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen it done successfully. Updating Superman on the big screen for a modern audience in the ultra realistic DCU is a very difficult task than adapting Captain America for the big screen in the bright and optimistic world of the MCU.

And who said it has to be ultrarealistic? Also who decided realistic=miserable? Good things happen in this world too. Really Marvel's universe feels more realistic than Snyder 's absurd bombast any day.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

I liked MOS as well. It has some issues, but I still like it and I've defended it for years now. And I was defending THIS movie against those who were dismissing it based on very little info.

So imagine my disappointment when it turned out to be, not good.

well thats just like your opinion man

I'll just save DeadP some time

 

[Loki882]

Also the real world has color and brightness to it as well.

 

[Xandrea]

Besides the ridiculous assumptions in this inane post, I love that you assume you can speak for the audience.

Oh really? What insane assumptions? And have you seriously missed article after article written by people who are upset by what has been done to Superman? The misery approach is not winning people over.

What is insane is claiming that no one will accept a hopeful Superman movie in this day and age when no one had tried and every attempt to make him brooding like Batman has lead to failure.