BvS The Official Zack Snyder Directs Everything Thread - Part 4

[wnjcwjkk]

I love the Nolan and the Snyder films. But I can admit they both have their flaws and major gaps in logic, be it Batman's logic, or just the logic of the world that they created, that make it easier just to drive the story forward. I think, if a fair, unbiased observer were to go back and read this conversation, they would come to the conclusion that:


If people like the creative choices made in a film series, they are far more willing to forgive the logical inconsistencies (Like Batman acting like he never kills, when he totally just killed a bunch of nameless ninjas, only attempting to save the guy he made a connection with OR Batman deciding to murder Superman on the 1% chance he flips out).


One person says Snyderverse is stupid and irredeemable because.... The other person says Nolanverse is stupid and irredeemable because... Then both rush to defend against the other's accusation. Both film universes are good, some people (maybe a majority of people) just don't like the creative choices made. I think that's what bothers the fans of the Snyder films, that the detractors act like its a foregone conclusion that the movies are obviously, inherently bad films, and that's just not true. But it's a pointless argument, cause nobody's changing their opinion, and that's all it is, an opinion

 

[Xrated48]

Funny how people like Snyder and Affleck have offered nothing but the highest praise and respect for Nolan's films, yet most of their fans/defenders like to take a big crap on them to make themselves feel better.

The only thing people reference with Snyder's two DC films is how disappointing they were.

And yeah, Snyder's fight scenes are better. So what? The Star Wars prequels have better choreography than the original Star Wars films. Snyder's biggest problem to me is he can't get me invested in and rooting for his characters.

Exactly 100% true.

Snyder has had more mistakes with this batman than Nolan did. I admit that fight scene in the daylight was bad but it was awesome seeing Batman fight in the daylight as he does not care anymore about hiding in the shadows anymore.

 

[The Batman]

I think that's what bothers the fans of the Snyder films, that the detractors act like its a foregone conclusion that the movies are obviously, inherently bad films, and that's just not true. But it's a pointless argument, cause nobody's changing their opinion, and that's all it is, an opinion

I think what bothers many Snyder fans is that they believe his DC films are obviously, inherently good films, and every day they're reminded that many people disagree with that.

A truly objective viewer would not say "both universes are good". That is a subjective view. I think people make the mistake of believing that just because they have a positive view of something, that inherently makes their view more objective than someone with a more negative view.

 

[ApophènX]

"Truly objectiv" viewer don't exist, it's all a matter of who you are wich is determinte by your experience of life, like the "general" audience is a product of a certain time period in a certain civilization. True and objectivity are two opposite words, we live on a worlds built on subjectivity and with the most different version possible of the "truth". Art is the same, it's all different, all your appreciation. You built your view on your past experience so if the movies in late years would have been different your view would be. It's all subjectiv, there is no reality in there you can grasp, it's all projection of you inside the film and that's how wére suppose to live it, by relating to it, wich make the experience unique and therefore different.

 

[Boom]

Compared to MoS and BvS, Nolan's Batman films have higher RottenTomatoes and MetaCritic marks (from both critics and audiences alike), higher CinemaScore marks, two of them made more at the box office (without 3D or the whole cinematic universe schtick), and one of them was a genuine contender for a Best Picture nomination (and it's snub actually resulted in the Academy changing the number of nominees from 2010 onward).

The Nolan films are very clearly terrible.

 

[sf2]

I love the Nolan and the Snyder films. But I can admit they both have their flaws and major gaps in logic, be it Batman's logic, or just the logic of the world that they created, that make it easier just to drive the story forward. I think, if a fair, unbiased observer were to go back and read this conversation, they would come to the conclusion that:


If people like the creative choices made in a film series, they are far more willing to forgive the logical inconsistencies (Like Batman acting like he never kills, when he totally just killed a bunch of nameless ninjas, only attempting to save the guy he made a connection with OR Batman deciding to murder Superman on the 1% chance he flips out).


One person says Snyderverse is stupid and irredeemable because.... The other person says Nolanverse is stupid and irredeemable because... Then both rush to defend against the other's accusation. Both film universes are good, some people (maybe a majority of people) just don't like the creative choices made. I think that's what bothers the fans of the Snyder films, that the detractors act like its a foregone conclusion that the movies are obviously, inherently bad films, and that's just not true. But it's a pointless argument, cause nobody's changing their opinion, and that's all it is, an opinion

that's what i was trying to say.
sorta like a selective and convenient prosecution.
it's fun to jump into the bandwagon to bash or to praise.
subconscious bully mentality.

 

[ApophènX]

They are very clearly terrible.

I wasn't defending the films, i was explaining that objectivity is a result of our time, society and a lot of other factors. Therefor it is subjective. The general audience and rotten tomatoes score appreciation are still a reflection of a certain period, like a persone, defined by the elements it encounters and it's envrionnement. Wich will change. In the absolute everything is subjective.

 

[Boom]

Oh I wasn't responding to you specifically. Just contributing my usual sarcasm to the general conversation.

The "they" in that sentence was referencing the Nolan films.

 

[The Joker]

I think what bothers many Snyder fans is that they believe his DC films are obviously, inherently good films, and every day they're reminded that many people disagree with that.

A truly objective viewer would not say "both universes are good". That is a subjective view. I think people make the mistake of believing that just because they have a positive view of something, that inherently makes their view more objective than someone with a more negative view.

Compared to MoS and BvS, Nolan's Batman films have higher RottenTomatoes and MetaCritic marks (from both critics and audiences alike), higher CinemaScore marks, two of them made more at the box office (without 3D or the whole cinematic universe schtick), and one of them was a genuine contender for a Best Picture nomination (and it's snub actually resulted in the Academy changing the number of nominees from 2010 onward).

They are very clearly terrible.

Exactly

 

[AnneFan]

call me TDKR haters. i found it is just cheesy and not right to see batman fighting together with the people in the broad daylight. just yuck feeling.

and have any defender of batman fans complaint how stupid is this version batman is??? like how they complaint on BvS???
never know the true identity of the woman he slept with??? went straight to bane trap and got killed almost??? the greatest detective??? Nolan, you have ruined batman, damn you!!! did they complaint this way???

I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. I can rebut all these points but I'm not in the mood right now.

 

[Boom]

At least Christian Bale's Batman believed in the good in people and would never have actively plotted to murder someone based on psychotic paranoia.

 

[AnneFan]

I enjoy BvS a great deal, and actually prefer Affleck. But that doesn't all of a sudden make me hate the great Nolan movies.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

At least Christian Bale's Batman believed in the good in people and would never have actively plotted to murder someone based on psychotic paranoia.

Agreed. Affleck is worst Batman. Snyder not understand any of characters he use.

 

[Xrated48]

Agreed. Affleck is worst Batman. Snyder not understand any of characters he use.

Yeah I agree he is one of the worst I don't blame Affleck as he doing a fine job but it's Snyder vision for the character that is making him one of the worst.

 

[TheVileOne]

You keep saying there's nothing as dangerous as Superman, but all he's seen of Superman is cause some mass destruction which cost countless lives. Osama Bin Laden was capable of the same thing, and did so in one of the worst events in human history. Never mind the fact that Superman was fighting the real threat in this destruction fest.

But Batman's brilliant logic is there's a tiny million to one chance that Superman might turn bad and become the worst threat ever, so he's got to die. That's idiotic. You don't make life and death decisions based on something that is not a certainty, and is extremely unlikely. Batman, and no sane or logical person, does such a thing.

It doesn't work, and just makes Batman look like a loony idiot.



If you really believed this forum was so bad, you wouldn't be coming back here at all, let alone on a daily basis. Nobody willingly spends any time in a place they think is stupid. Unless they're stupid themselves.



Of course it does. That's why this thing has spread so much into merchandise. It's one of the stupidest and funniest scenes ever. It's mocking value is so great it's worth being put on t-shirts.



No, you couldn't. Except for maybe Batman and Robin.



Where did I say Batman should hang up his cape? How does expecting Batman not to be a murderous idiot equate to him quitting and believing in the government?



I know what the movie was trying to portray. Trouble is it doesn't work on any level. No execution can make idiocy work. It's like when bad writing tries to use the excuse of someone is crazy, so they can be written as stupid as they like. They were never going to be able to make a good job of it.

Remember that one percent chance thing was appropriate from Dick Cheney.

 

[Timebomb]

It's hard for me to say Affleck is a better Bruce than Bale. He did not have great material to work with and Bale did. I need to see more of Affleck as Bruce.

However, Affleck is visually better as Batman. Except the character of Batman in BVS is horrible.

 

[The Joker]

Remember that one percent chance thing was appropriate from Dick Cheney.

Indeed. The guy who was nicknamed Darth Vader lol.

 

[AnneFan]

It's hard for me to say Affleck is a better Bruce than Bale. He did not have great material to work with and Bale did. I need to see more of Affleck as Bruce.

However, Affleck is visually better as Batman. Except the character of Batman in BVS is horrible.

For me, Affleck has the better suit and voice. The fighting is more to my liking, and his physique is huge. From a narrative point of view, his character is evolving. He won't be the same person in every movie. The SS/JL trend is a man who is inspired and less intense.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Indeed. The guy who was nicknamed Darth Vader lol.

I can't wait for JL where the plot will stop so Bruce Wayne can give an hour long John Galt speech.

 

[Jaxon]

Compared to MoS and BvS, Nolan's Batman films have higher RottenTomatoes and MetaCritic marks (from both critics and audiences alike), higher CinemaScore marks, two of them made more at the box office (without 3D or the whole cinematic universe schtick), and one of them was a genuine contender for a Best Picture nomination (and it's snub actually resulted in the Academy changing the number of nominees from 2010 onward).

The Nolan films are very clearly terrible.

The only thing thing Nolan films are remembered for is Heath Ledger's acting and all the outrageous plot holes, crazy restrictions put on Batman in a so called real world, poor choreography, b grade action scenes are just forgiven. In 2016 if they were new films they'd never hold up under scrutiny.

Face it, Snyder is held to a higher standard despite producing the masterpiece that is Man of Steel that under any level of scrutiny thrives.

 

[Flint Marko]

The only thing thing Nolan films are remembered for is Heath Ledger's acting and all the outrageous plot holes, crazy restrictions put on Batman in a so called real world, poor choreography, b grade action scenes are just forgiven. In 2016 if they were new films they'd never hold up under scrutiny.

Face it, Snyder is held to a higher standard despite producing the masterpiece that is Man of Steel that under any level of scrutiny thrives.

Do you think that Snyder is being snubbed by the academy and if so, when will the people began an uprise to make sure he's recognized?

 

[Jaxon]

At least Christian Bale's Batman believed in the good in people and would never have actively plotted to murder someone based on psychotic paranoia.

We're you happy that he just gave up for 7 years or whatever? That seem like the Batman in the comics?

 

[The Joker]

The only thing thing Nolan films are remembered for is Heath Ledger's acting and all the outrageous plot holes, crazy restrictions put on Batman in a so called real world, poor choreography, b grade action scenes are just forgiven.

You think one actor's performance has the power to make three movies (two of which he's not even in) be held to such high standard? No offense, but that is one of the stupidest things ever disgrace these forums.

The sad thing is you probably really do believe that.

In 2016 if they were new films they'd never hold up under scrutiny.

What like Snyder's don't.

How far in denial are you that you think cinema has changed so dramatically since 2012?

Face it, Snyder is held to a higher standard despite producing the masterpiece that is Man of Steel that under any level of scrutiny thrives.

What alternate reality do you live in where you believe Snyder and his movies are held to a higher standard, or that MOS is treated as a masterpiece, much less stands up to the scrutiny it gets and thrives? Where has MOS been thriving? Post examples. Show proof.

We're you happy that he just gave up for 7 years or whatever? That seem like the Batman in the comics?

Your god, Snyder, claims he based his "Batman" on a fan favorite version that quit for 10 years. Not that DKR is the only version of Batman who wants to quit. Regular comic book Batman does, too;

 

[Penguin]

The only thing thing Nolan films are remembered for is Heath Ledger's acting and all the outrageous plot holes, crazy restrictions put on Batman in a so called real world, poor choreography, b grade action scenes are just forgiven. In 2016 if they were new films they'd never hold up under scrutiny.

Face it, Snyder is held to a higher standard despite producing the masterpiece that is Man of Steel that under any level of scrutiny thrives.

What plot holes are you referring to?

 

[Doctor Octopus]

I can't wait for JL where the plot will stop so Bruce Wayne can give an hour long John Galt speech.

lol Snyder probably really will make him do something like that.