The Phantom Zone: Superman 🚨SPOILER🚨 Discussion (NO TAGS)

[dhandler01]

Read Woman of Tomorrow and you will get a good idea how it is handled.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Read Woman of Tomorrow and you will get a good idea how it is handled.

So I don't have convenient access to DC's comics the way I do to Marvel. Is there a very short version that can be helpful or is it a spoiler that undermines the story to know in advance?

 

[BobJM]

I loved Lex in this film; but it’s funny that we got yet another real estate scheme from him. Complete with Otis and Eve standing nearby. RIP Gene Hackman

 

[dhandler01]

So I don't have convenient access to DC's comics the way I do to Marvel. Is there a very short version that can be helpful or is it a spoiler that undermines the story to know in advance?

Basically she is mourning the death of Krypton by drinking and partying so she obviously has a deep rooted connection which tells me it won't all be bad. I will bet she will have a deeper insight into what Jor-El meant and (if there is a need to retcon) that is where it will be done. I don't think it will be a retcon though I think that was always the plan.

 

[The Batman]

I loved Lex in this film; but it’s funny that we got yet another real estate scheme from him. Complete with Otis and Eve standing nearby. RIP Gene Hackman

Even the Ultraman stuff kind of feels like a reinvention of Nuclear Man.

 

[titansupes]

Comics, cartoons, television and movies-- if there's one thing Lex loves more than real estate, it's taking the DNA of a man he says is too powerful and dangerous to live and making a mentally unstable, violent clone of him.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Clark and Lois are pretty much what you would expect. In no way strictly for kids but overall more mature then what you usually see from Gunn. But then everything else, even Kara, feels there to play to his usual sensibilities. Some of those work. I think Krypto, Kara, Mr. Terrific, even Guy really work in that regard. But a lot of the female characters just fall down into the usual misogyny Gunn can't seem to reel in. The Jimmy/Eve stuff is so gross.

The Jimmy stuff is so nasty and hateful.

They mostly did a good job wisely hacking it out but I can totally see why earlier cuts seemingly tested worse than where they wound up - the really cutesie silly movie for eight year olds tone most of it has clashes real sharply any time the edgy comedy hits.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Another_Fool]

The more I think about it the more I really want Gunn to fully oversee Superman for at least a trilogy. Superman's rogues gallery are very hard to adapt outside of Zod and Brainiac and Gunn based on what he did for GOTG I feel most confident in bringing to life some of the wackier rogues of Superman. I mean they're not rogues but look at what Gunn has already done with Krypto, Metamorpho and Mr Terrific? The audience loves them so far. Gunn is the guy right now.

 

[dhandler01]

I hope he does but he admits he struggled with this one until he found Krypto so I dont want him to force it.

He works best on the stuff he is passionate about so hopefully he has ideas but if not I trust him to find people who do.

 

[DKDetective]

I hope he does but he admits he struggled with this one until he found Krypto so I dont want him to force it.

He works best on the stuff he is passionate about so hopefully he has ideas but if not I trust him to find people who do.

Yeah, while he nailed Clark, Lois, and Lex, he definitely had issues with other characters, such as Jimmy. Gunn is not a natural fit for Superman and some of my biggest problems with the film were due to tonal and thematic dissonance between a Superman story and Gunn's sensibilities (eg. The adolescent humour).

I think the best case is for Gunn to leave a sequel to another writer and/or director and contribute notes as studio head. He had some good ideas here and I think the best chance for a truly great sequel is to offset his weaknesses.

 

[flickchick85]

I think Gunn did a great job with this, but I just....don't have the confidence that he'd be able to nail it twice. Partially because we know how long he avoided making this one until he "finally cracked it." You can tell this was a very specific, personal story for him to tell, and now he's told it. So as thrilled as I am with this movie, I'll always believe there are other directors with sensibilities that are more natural fits for Supes. My ideal scenario would be for him to write the story for the sequel and let some other filmmaker take the baton. Gunn gave us a FANTASTIC foundation here - the cast, the world, it's all pretty much ideal to me - that I'd be happy seeing someone else build on. This is quite the gigantic sandbox for someone to play in.

 

[dhandler01]

Exactly. As a non-Gunn Fan he did better than I could have hoped but I am not sure I want to see what he would do ramping it up for a sequel. DC Studios wants to have more freedom for their directors, and I bet there are a lot of directors that would like to build the house on the foundation James built.

 

[Venom 1988]

Exactly. As a non-Gunn Fan he did better than I could have hoped but I am not sure I want to see what he would do ramping it up for a sequel. DC Studios wants to have more freedom for their directors, and I bet there are a lot of directors that would like to build the house on the foundation James built.

And given that he's co-head of DC studios, it might be best he take a backseat to allow other directors the chance to do direct. I know he has hired to do Superman first before getting the studio head job, so I get why he stayed on.

Kinda like old network TV. Sometimes for certain shows they get a pretty prominent director to direct the pilot. The director sets the foundation and tone for the rest of the series and then they step away.

 

[Deck Rickard]

This is kind of a random thing but did anyone else find it odd that when Ultraman was finally revealed to be a clone of Superman, he had light brown, almost blond hair? I guess that was the reason why David’s eyebrows appeared weirdly light in some photos during filming. But anyway, I’m curious why people think they made that choice. Just kind of a strange thing to do when it’s a reveal that’s intended to be a surprise (it wasn’t at all, but casual fans might have been surprised). You would think they would want him to look as much like Supes as possible in that moment.

It doesn’t really bother me, just something I was wondering. I think he’ll eventually turn into full-on Bizarro after going through the black hole and we’ll see him again, but I don’t know of any versions of Bizarro (or comic book Ultraman for that matter) that are blond.

 

[Lily Adler]

This is kind of a random thing but did anyone else find it odd that when Ultraman was finally revealed to be a clone of Superman, he had light brown, almost blond hair? I guess that was the reason why David’s eyebrows appeared weirdly light in some photos during filming. But anyway, I’m curious why people think they made that choice. Just kind of a strange thing to do when it’s a reveal that’s intended to be a surprise (it wasn’t at all, but casual fans might have been surprised). You would think they would want him to look as much like Supes as possible in that moment.

It doesn’t really bother me, just something I was wondering. I think he’ll eventually turn into full-on Bizarro after going through the black hole and we’ll see him again, but I don’t know of any versions of Bizarro (or comic book Ultraman for that matter) that are blond.

 

[TheGDBatman]

This is kind of a random thing but did anyone else find it odd that when Ultraman was finally revealed to be a clone of Superman, he had light brown, almost blond hair? I guess that was the reason why David’s eyebrows appeared weirdly light in some photos during filming. But anyway, I’m curious why people think they made that choice. Just kind of a strange thing to do when it’s a reveal that’s intended to be a surprise (it wasn’t at all, but casual fans might have been surprised). You would think they would want him to look as much like Supes as possible in that moment.

It doesn’t really bother me, just something I was wondering. I think he’ll eventually turn into full-on Bizarro after going through the black hole and we’ll see him again, but I don’t know of any versions of Bizarro (or comic book Ultraman for that matter) that are blond.

If I recall correctly, Lex said it was an imperfect clone. Could be wrong though!

 

[Deck Rickard]

Ha! I didn’t think of that. If Ultraman was also a subtle nod to the Black Noir twist from the comics then that really does make sense.

 

[Lily Adler]

I hate the internet.

 

[Deck Rickard]

View attachment 141730

I hate the internet.

lol this is all they have left. Pity them while they long for another movie with gray on gray on gray color grading where Superman lets thousands of people die and never says a word because it’s so deep.

 

[Lily Adler]

lol this is all they have left. Pity them while they long for another movie with gray on gray on gray color grading where Superman lets thousands of people die and never says a word because it’s so deep.

Meanwhile David rocking his lovely locks.

 

[BatLobster]

If Gunn hired McQuarrie to do a sequel I would get legit hyped. He's probably too busy with a million Cruise projects but hearing him talk about his pitch for a Supes movie had me really intrigued, and his overall sensibilities feel more natural for the material than Gunn's.

 

[Lily Adler]

If Gunn hired McQuarrie to do a sequel I would get legit hyped. He's probably too busy with a million Cruise projects but hearing him talk about his pitch for a Supes movie had me really intrigued, and his overall sensibilities feel more natural for the material than Gunn's.

 

[Venom 1988]

This is kind of a random thing but did anyone else find it odd that when Ultraman was finally revealed to be a clone of Superman, he had light brown, almost blond hair? I guess that was the reason why David’s eyebrows appeared weirdly light in some photos during filming. But anyway, I’m curious why people think they made that choice. Just kind of a strange thing to do when it’s a reveal that’s intended to be a surprise (it wasn’t at all, but casual fans might have been surprised). You would think they would want him to look as much like Supes as possible in that moment.

It doesn’t really bother me, just something I was wondering. I think he’ll eventually turn into full-on Bizarro after going through the black hole and we’ll see him again, but I don’t know of any versions of Bizarro (or comic book Ultraman for that matter) that are blond.

Blond hair is a recessive gene. He's the Liquid Snake of the DCU.

 

[Deck Rickard]

If Gunn hired McQuarrie to do a sequel I would get legit hyped. He's probably too busy with a million Cruise projects but hearing him talk about his pitch for a Supes movie had me really intrigued, and his overall sensibilities feel more natural for the material than Gunn's.

I love McQ but he doesn’t seem like the type of writer/director that would gel with Gunn. As I understand it, Gunn is pretty strict about having tight, finished scripts for his projects. Of course, he allows for a lot of collaboration and improvisation but it sounds like most of the elements that end up in his movies were there from the beginning.

McQ, in contrast, tends to develop the story for his films on the fly. One of the reasons Rebecca Ferguson left the M:I franchise is because she was tired of having to be available for months-long shoots when she didn’t even know what she would be doing. She even said that the movies “don’t really have scripts.” Now, don’t get me wrong; I think McQ is awesome and I love the M:I franchise. And I would be very interested to see his take on Superman because it sounded interesting. And perhaps his improvisational directing style is largely due to the M:I films being such a collaborative process with Cruise. But if McQ usually films that way, I don’t know that Gunn would give him the green light, especially with a franchise as important as Superman right now.