The Phantom Zone: Superman 🚨SPOILER🚨 Discussion (NO TAGS)

[Primal Slayer]

I couldn’t hear a word during the Peacemaker cameo because my theater lost its mind during that scene (in a good way). Anyone remember the gist of his interview snippet?

All I remember is that it was anti-Superman and I think just him saying something about how they were right to distrust him?

 

[DKDetective]

It's pg-13, that is just as accessible to kids as mcu is. Kids hear cursing everyday. I don't think any superman movie should ever be Rated G or PG. Comics are spicier than that

I'm not saying it should be G or PG, but there were definitely elements that pushed it less child friendly than the majority of the MCU. It wasn't so much the cursing itself, but how it was an element of an overall vein of crass, sexual, and mean-spirited humour. The whole thing with Jimmy and Eve had me choking on the air of misogyny.

It was basically Gunn being his usual gross, juvenile self. You can really tell the guy doesn't have kids and very much views this material from the perspective of an adult fan.

I don't have concerns showing my daughter anything from Superman The Movie and Lois&Clark, to The Animated Series, or My Adventures with Superman.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm not saying it should be G or PG, but there were definitely elements that pushed it less child friendly than the majority of the MCU. It wasn't so much the cursing itself, but how it was an element of an overall vein of crass, sexual, and mean-spirited humour. The whole thing with Jimmy and Eve had me choking on the air of misogyny.

It was basically Gunn being his usual gross, juvenile self. You can really tell the guy doesn't have kids and very much views this material from the perspective of an adult fan.

I don't have concerns showing my daughter anything from Superman The Movie and Lois&Clark, to The Animated Series, or My Adventures with Superman.

Clark and Lois are pretty much what you would expect. In no way strictly for kids but overall more mature then what you usually see from Gunn. But then everything else, even Kara, feels there to play to his usual sensibilities. Some of those work. I think Krypto, Kara, Mr. Terrific, even Guy really work in that regard. But a lot of the female characters just fall down into the usual misogyny Gunn can't seem to reel in. The Jimmy/Eve stuff is so gross.

 

[DKDetective]

Clark and Lois are pretty much what you would expect. In no way strictly for kids but overall more mature then what you usually see from Gunn. But then everything else, even Kara, feels there to play to his usual sensibilities. Some of those work. I think Krypto, Kara, Mr. Terrific, even Guy really work in that regard. But a lot of the female characters just fall down into the usual misogyny Gunn can't seem to reel in. The Jimmy/Eve stuff is so gross.

Yeah, I had no issues with Mr. Terrific or Guy in that regard (other than all of the giant flipping of the bird in Jarhanpur, which I could see a seven-year old unknowingly imitate way too easily). Guy served as a good foil to Clark as a more mature, wholesome hero and was very true to the character.

I think Gunn's schtick stood out more because overall the film was trying for and succeeded a lot of the time at being more mature and wholesome, which is why stuff like the Secret Harem, Super****, and Jimmy/Eve stuff felt so dissonant.

Also, was S*** like Gunn's word of the day when he wrote the script or something? Nothing wrong with some mild cursing in four quadrant films, but the fact that it was same word, over and over again, made it really stick out.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, I had no issues with Mr. Terrific or Guy in that regard (other than all of the giant flipping of the bird in Jarhanpur, which I could see a seven-year old unknowingly imitate way too easily). Guy served as a good foil to Clark as a more mature, wholesome hero and was very true to the character.

I think Gunn's schtick stood out more because overall the film was trying for and succeeded a lot of the time at being a more mature and wholesome, which is why stuff like the Secret Harem, Super****, and Jimmy/Eve stuff felt so dissonant.

Also, was S*** like Gunn's word of the day when he wrote the script or something? Nothing wrong with some mild cursing in four quadrants films, but the fact that it was same word, over and over again, made it really stick out.

100% agree. I think the general tone at the heart of the movie clashes with a lot of that other stuff. Which is why it stood out more then usual.

As for his love of poop, I'm guessing it's because you can use that a lot of in PG-13 and get away with it.

 

[TheGDBatman]

Yeah, I had no issues with Mr. Terrific or Guy in that regard (other than all of the giant flipping of the bird in Jarhanpur, which I could see a seven-year old unknowingly imitate way too easily). Guy served as a good foil to Clark as a more mature, wholesome hero and was very true to the character.

I think Gunn's schtick stood out more because overall the film was trying for and succeeded a lot of the time at being a more mature and wholesome, which is why stuff like the Secret Harem, Super****, and Jimmy/Eve stuff felt so dissonant.

Also, was S*** like Gunn's word of the day when he wrote the script or something? Nothing wrong with some mild cursing in four quadrants films, but the fact that it was same word, over and over again, made it really stick out.

Probably has to do with ratings. S*** generally isn't viewed the same was an f-bomb.

 

[DKDetective]

Probably has to do with ratings. S*** generally isn't viewed the same was an f-bomb.

Yeah, of course. But there is a variety of words at that level. Just felt like he could have mixed it up a bit and it would have actually felt less intrusive.

 

[TheGDBatman]

Yeah, of course. But there is a variety of words at that level. Just felt like he could have mixed it up a bit and it would have actually felt less intrusive.

I personally felt like p*** and bas**** needed more love.

 

[DKDetective]

I personally felt like p*** and bas**** needed more love.

Bastard and ass for me (as you can see they don't even trigger our censors). Damn, hell, bloody, etc. too. Just classier, more timeless salty language. Just something about the way Gunn gravitates to ****, dick, etc. just feels more crass and juvenile to me.

 

[dhandler01]

Fair warning, Kara curses all the time in the Woman of Tomorrow comic her movie is adapting. Her behavior here fits that version of her character to a "T" and in my opinion, it's by far the best version of Kara we've ever gotten. That story is not meant to be particularly kid-friendly. Very PG-13.

Seriously! On like every other page!

I taught Middle School...this language is tame

 

[dhandler01]

The JSA mural in the Hall of Iustice was the coolest catch! JSA confirmed in the DCU! I saw wildcat

Is anyone else talking about this, haven’t been following closely

I kept trying to see what that was but missed it. Nice catch andvery cool!

 

[flickchick85]

I don’t think that’s true; if I recall correctly, all the renovations were covering up ticket counters and train platform signs. I think the JG are the first tenants

Gunn said in the Buzzfeed puppy interview that they put metahumans of years past in the mural. He didn't say "Justice Society" but I'd bet it's mostly them.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Gunn said in the Buzzfeed puppy interview that they put metahumans of years past in the mural. He didn't say "Justice Society" but I'd bet it's mostly them.

FC: I don't understand how anyone can be so obsessive about stupid sport's ball.

Also FC: Let me tell you about this one thing James Gunn said in a Buzzfeed interview.

 

[Andreth]

One of my absolute favorite scenes is when Lois and Clark are having a deep conversation… while a giant creature from another world is literally attacking the city in the background.
It walks that perfect line between silly and heartfelt, totally comic book vibes, and I loved it.

I absolutely love that the Justice Gang is just casually fighting that thing off in the distance, while Superman just treats it like another Tuesday.
Meanwhile, he and Lois are having a serious talk about their relationship, with laser blasts going off behind them. Just brilliant.

Also, was that Clark’s apartment? It looked different from Lois’s place earlier on. I need to rewatch and confirm.

Everyone in this cast is great, but I can't believe how phenomenal Corenswet is as Superman.
There’s such emotional passion in his performance , he brings warmth, weight, and heart to the role in a way that just feels right.

 

[dhandler01]

That was Clark's apartment yes.

I love that his big justification for turning himself in was "maybe they will take me where the dog is" cause Krypto is scared and lonely!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That was Clark's apartment yes.

I love that his big justification for turning himself in was "maybe they will take me where the dog is" cause Krypto is scared and lonely!

Snyder on whether he should save Krypto:

 

[Andreth]

Great!
I also love that Lois has a key to his apartment too, it says so much without needing to explain it.
And the way he thanks Cat when she congratulates him on the front page? So nerdy and sweet!
Also that BIG goofy smile at the end when Lois tells him she loves him, UGH. My heart
I'll repeat it, there's so much passion and warmth in his Clark/Superman

That was Clark's apartment yes.

 

[flickchick85]

Honestly his dedication to rescuing Krypto is somehow even more endearing when you know he's not even his dog and is just a nuisance he's babysitting.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Honestly his dedication to rescuing Krypto is somehow even more endearing when you know he's not even his dog and is just a nuisance he's babysitting.

You want to be responsible for telling big cuz you lost her dog?

 

[dhandler01]

Honestly his dedication to rescuing Krypto is somehow even more endearing when you know he's not even his dog and is just a nuisance he's babysitting.

He even admits Krypto is a terrible dog...but he will go John Wick on Lex if he has too! God I love when he breaks into Lex's office and scares the crap out of Michael Ian Black

The HISHE version of that scene is so hilarious...mainly cause of Galactus and then John Wick!

 

[BobJM]

Honestly, this movie slaps on a rewatch. A quieter theatre early this morning; I got to savor all the details and really enjoy it. Any nitpicks already mentioned are really just that—very minor. Gunn really ate with this one.

 

[Silvermoth]

Spoiler: Superman

I loved it but what would have made it better was if they officially confirmed Ultraman is Bizarro. Even if they just had a line like “this clone of me is truly bizarre” would have been amazing because let’s be honest we’re unlikely to see Bizarro in another context

 

[dhandler01]

I mean he is an imperfect clone who is stupid

 

[Primal Slayer]

James Gunn Took a Huge Risk By Changing Superman's Origin Story, Does It Work?​

"I’m a huge Superman fan, so first of all I had to trust myself that I was going to honor the pieces of Superman that we needed to keep the same and also allow myself to make changes where changes might work and wouldn’t go against the integrity of who the character is,"
Gunn seems to have never wavered in that trust in himself, at least not so far as Kal-El’s origins are concerned. Taking such a risk in the first film of the new DCU might seem like a big swing, but Jor-El and Lara’s nefarious intentions were in the script from the earliest days of the project. "It was in James's first draft," DC Studios co-chairperson and co-CEO Peter Safran shared with IGN. "The story hasn't changed at all. It's exactly what he initially pitched and wrote. James was always very specific about the story that he wanted to tell," Safran continued. "What you see is the movie that he genuinely wanted to make."

So how does Safran feel about the change? "I love it. I never questioned it," he told IGN. "I thought it was an incredibly effective thing. I just love the idea that family is about bond, not necessarily about blood. And that's his family. These people are his family and they're there for him when he's down, and then they're what bring him back up as well at the end. So I loved that in the script and I love it even more in the movie because I think the performances are so strong."

In the words of Gunn, making the Els essentially antithetical to who Superman becomes was "simply allowing ourselves to change part of the story in a way that was interesting for the DCU but wasn’t something that went against who Superman was." It allows for some of the film's most powerful emotional moments and gives Clark an impressive amount of agency over his heroic legacy. Gunn is aware of the impact of the choice, but correctly points out that "it’s something that has been played with in the comics before."

James Gunn Took a Huge Risk By Changing Superman's Origin Story, Does It Work? - IGN

James Gunn's Superman gives a fresh take to the Kryptonian's origin story, but Smallville and comic fans might see the twist coming when it's all said and done.

www.ign.com

How This Twist Changes Superman Forever​

There are a few other examples, and all the examples of an evil Jor-El and/or Lara exist outside of “regular” canon. So as Gunn admits, this is a pretty big swing. Most of us would never have assumed Superman’s birth parents could be so horrible. And yet, Superman’s family is the key to the entire movie.

“I didn't want to take something away from him that was elemental to who he was, but I did want him to deal with a personal crisis,” Gunn explains, referring to the big twist.

“I wanted at the heart of this story to be about Superman the human being and him struggling with something about the way he sees himself and his identity crisis,” Gunn says, “and then finding his new faith in himself through that process. So, the easiest way was to change what we expect about the mythology of Superman. But, in a way that doesn't really hurt him because he still has his foundation in Ma and Pa Kent.”

For Gunn, this concept is the whole point.

“I wanted to portray Mom and Pop Kent a little bit differently than they have been in movies or in TV,” Gunn says. “I was excited to write them and make them a part of the story from the beginning. There are plenty of stories in the comics where they're not passed away, they're around a lot, so I wanted to include that.”

“I think that I was really careful with what I changed or didn't change about Superman,” Gunn says. “I love the character.”

'Superman's' Biggest Canon Change Redefines The Hero Forever

In the new 2025 'Superman,' one detail about Superman's family on Krypton has been changed. James Gunn tells us why.

www.inverse.com

 

[Mike Murdock]

Fair warning, Kara curses all the time in the Woman of Tomorrow comic her movie is adapting. Her behavior here fits that version of her character to a "T" and in my opinion, it's by far the best version of Kara we've ever gotten. That story is not meant to be particularly kid-friendly. Very PG-13.

Probably the biggest question for that movie is whether they're going to address this moment. Does she have memories of Krypton? Does she feel the same way as Kal-El's parents? I have nothing against Supergirl. The tension between Superman is supposed to be the last son of Krypton and "screw it, let's have a whole Super-Family" is part of the fun of golden age/silver age DC. But it does feel like it's now an Elephant in the room.