The Pope on Evolution, creationism

[Spider-Bite]

The problem with that is you are trying to say as tho God were merely mortal. Hes not, hes completely divine, hes well, God. Here is my reason as to why its stupid to not believe in God:



Say there truly is NO God, and, like you, you believe so. You live your life as anybody else would, except that when you near your death bed, you begin to slightly panic as you realize that the end is near. You die, and thats it, you fall into that eternal sleep.

Now, same as above there is NO God, but you have someone that DOES believe in God, they live their life as anybody else, but when they near their death bed they can rejoice as they know that the end isn't near, the beginning of a wonderful new life is. The time comes and they fall into that eternal sleep, nothing happens, BUT they died fulfilled. Its not like the second they die they say "o crap, there really is no God". So therefore the believer wins that scenario.

this is not evidence of anything, and no it has no bearing on how fullfilling your life is. It's not like religous people walk to their deathbed all happy and smiling. They are just as upset and scared as an atheist.

Fullfillment is measured by everyday, and every minute of your life. Your family. Your accomplisments. Your career etc.

Ok now heres this one : Say there IS a God, and like you don't believe so, you go on about your life saying how silly God is. You lay on your deathbed knowing that the end is here, but when you fall into that deep sleep you find yourself at heavens gate tho you are denied entry based on your lack of faith(not your undenying worship) but the fact that you refused to believe.

I could never worship and love somebody who judges somebody by their religous belief. I could also never love somebody who burns people for an eternity.

So now that leaves the one that DOES believe in God, again, they go about living their life. They reach their deathbed and die smiling because, as i said,

That's a little unrealistic. That's not what people do when they are dying.

they know the beginning of a new life is upon them. They fall into that sleep and arrive at the gates of heaven to start their blissful new life.

that's a false assumption. that doesnt' really happen. It is a proven fact that self awareness lies in the brain. If you take a chunk of your brain, you take out a chunk of who you are. You are never the same again. If swelf awareness laid in the soul, than brain damage would be irrelevant.

So that makes it faithfuls 2, atheist 0.

not really. You prevented two scenarios that dont' really happen in real life.

I mean do you see that? Its not silly for someone to believe in God or a life after death at all.

Yes it is silly. And quite often horrible tragedies result from it.

You have the gay kid who commits suicide because of his religous parents, and then you have the lesbian, my sister, who is comforted by her atheist brother when she comes out of the closet.

count 1 for the atheist, and 0 for the faithful

Take the atheist who is able to think for himself, and the faithful who says "who are you to argue with God?"

count 2 for the atheist and 0 for the faithful

 

[ProjectPat2280]

this is not evidence of anything, and no it has no bearing on how fullfilling your life is. It's not like religous people walk to their deathbed all happy and smiling. They are just as upset and scared as an atheist.

Wrong. Those who truly believe in a life after death, have nothing to be scared of.

Fullfillment is measured by everyday, and every minute of your life. Your family. Your accomplisments. Your career etc.

You are too materlistic. I know ppl who arent that succesfull and are completely content with their life.

I could never worship and love somebody who judges somebody by their religous belief. I could also never love somebody who burns people for an eternity.

I understand this, but the fact that you write it off by saying, well i cant see God therefore he doesnt exsist makes you just like the ones who refuse to believe in anything other than God

that's a false assumption. that doesnt' really happen. It is a proven fact that self awareness lies in the brain. If you take a chunk of your brain, you take out a chunk of who you are. You are never the same again. If swelf awareness laid in the soul, than brain damage would be irrelevant.

You dont know what lies in the soul. Its not like you can cut one open and say, "see here is the soul, here what lies within"

Yes it is silly. And quite often horrible tragedies result from it.

Well if you drive a car you could be killed in a wreck, should you stop drivng based JUST off of that???

You have the gay kid who commits suicide because of his religous parents, and then you have the lesbian, my sister, who is comforted by her atheist brother when she comes out of the closet.

There are deeper problems there. There have been gays who have come out only to be shun that DONT kill themself.

Take the atheist who is able to think for himself, and the faithful who says "who are you to argue with God?"

Who says one who believs in God cant think for themself?



I think you are just as closed minded as the ones you attack.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

You dont know what lies in the soul. Its not like you can cut one open and say, "see here is the soul, here what lies within"

and you don't know that there IS a soul.
you've been TOLD there is and you choose to believe this.
that's your deal.

doesn't mean you're right, I means that you really WANT to be right.

but it doesn't mean you're right.

 

[Kritish]

Evolution: Something with tons of scientific evidence
Creationism: Based on wishful thinking, no proof what so ever.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

and you don't know that there IS a soul.
you've been TOLD there is and you choose to believe this.
that's your deal.

doesn't mean you're right, I means that you really WANT to be right.

but it doesn't mean you're right.

Thats the thing with these beliefs. I believe there is, there for i KNOW im right. Ill continue living my life as such, no harm done.

 

[Kritish]

Thats the thing with these beliefs. I believe there is, there for i KNOW im right. Ill continue living my life as such, no harm done.

No, you don't know that you're right. You think you're right.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Evolution: Something with tons of scientific evidence
Creationism: Based on wishful thinking, no proof what so ever.

Whats your point. You have to truly see something to belive it? It boils down to, those who belive in God, do so because it makes them feel good, no more no less, at least thats how it is with me. Sure you have fanatics who force their view down everyones throat, but you have them on both sides.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

No, you don't know that you're right. You think you're right.

No, i KNOW, its what i belive. You cant change that.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

I didn't say there was any harm in it.
other than you say

"I believe there is, there for i KNOW im right"

when it should be:

"I believe there is, there for i believe im right"

that's when things might get harmful.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I didn't say there was any harm in it.
other than you say

"I believe there is, there for i KNOW im right"

when it should be:

"I believe there is, there for i believe im right"

that's when things might get harmful.

I know im right about it,or as you said i believe, but that doesnt stop be from beings friends with someone like you who thinks completely opposite.

 

[sithgoblin]

I've yet to hear anyone explain where everything came from. Even if the Big Bang created humanity and the earth or whatever...where did that come from? Where did the universe come from? Where did everything else come from?



Funny you would say that after you have just ripped religion.

Just because science can't explain everything yet, why does that mean that 'god did it'?

 

[Victarion]

I totally want to hear what the Maximum voice for the catholic church has to say on things like Science and Evolution.

seriously!

don't you all!

I'll bet it's super-duper-awesome.

Maximum voice??

Anyway, I'd rather appear completely inept in refusing to accept scientific proof than be sorry when me time comes for my last bow.

 

[sithgoblin]

No, i KNOW, its what i belive. You cant change that.

No, you think you know.

 

[Victarion]

Science has benefitted us in the past...but I don't put too much stock in it unless it helps me out...such as studying for the MCAT exams.

 

[thedeadite]

i'm not a religious person..but in my opinion, if you choose to believe in god because of the better retirement plan (which some people have eluded to as a reason to have belief) then you're not getting the point of the religion at all.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

i'm not a religious person..but in my opinion, if you choose to believe in god because of the better retirement plan (which some people have eluded to as a reason to have belief) then you're not getting the point of the religion at all.

I think you are referencing what i stated. I understand there is more, i was just using that as a highlight.

We all can talk about this until we all die. No one is going to change their opinion, so this argument is completely pointless.

 

[lordofthenerds]

I'm more of an agnostic, but I voted atheist.

 

[Calvin]

I usually have agnostic leanings, but it's starting to become as trendy as ipods. I lean towards it, but I'm kind of ashamed that I do, since lately it strikes me as a pretty wishy-washy "safe" stance.

 

[Sloth7d]

NO.
WRONG.

Genesis makes no mention of the origin of the universe, or even the Earth itself.
When we join the story in Genesis 1, It's all just already there, and God "refines" it and shapes it.


What does "Heaven" mean? And where is a "Primeval Atom" mentioned?
Formless and void, and already there...as early as verse 2.
We're only at verse 2, and there's no mention of the creation of water. Even the Bible just says, "It was just there."


Where were "the waters"?
On Earth, that was blobby and formless.
So, the Bible doesn't say anything about the Creation of EARTH, let alone the whole Universe.

Um in the first verse it said he created the earth.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I'm a Roman Catholic, and I believe in theistic evolution. I think God created the elements that caused The Big Bang, and that he created all the basic elements that formed evolution and came up with the concept of what we would evolve into.

The Catholic Church has actually kept a fairly open mind about evolution. A lot of Catholic schools are teaching it.

I'm a Roman Catholic as well and have the same views as you.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Maximum voice??

Anyway, I'd rather appear completely inept in refusing to accept scientific proof than be sorry when me time comes for my last bow.

yah, dude.
he is totally that.
and I hope you "refuse" scientific proof the next time you're ill.
you know? no modern medicine, no anything. put yourself in the lord's hands.

oh, I forgot, you only refuse science when it's convenient to your views.

 

[Victarion]

yah, dude.
he is totally that.
and I hope you "refuse" scientific proof the next time you're ill.
you know? no modern medicine, no anything. put yourself in the lord's hands.

oh, I forgot, you only accept science when it's convenient to your views.[/quote]

Now you are correct, my cynical friend. Much like most anything, if its convenient, I roll with it. Otherwise 'tis not a blip on the radar.

You forget: I accept medical sciences and aspects of it, such as the healing properties of platlets and blood cells. If my allergies clear up, I think, "damn, those are some good allergy shots". Who do ya think gives the doctors the capacity to learn and retain the information necessary for their profession, hmm?

 

[Sloth7d]

What was the murder weapon used by Scott Peterson to kill his wife? Prosecutors were never able to explain how Scott Peterson killed her, even though we know he did kill her.

Prosecutors can not explain it.

Oh my. God must have killed Laci Peterson! Scott is innocent!

You see the problem with the God gap style of debating? It's nothing but speculation to fill in the gaps, where we havn't yet uncovered the answer or explanation. It's not that science can't explain it, it's that scientists, can't explain it yet.

Wow. What a ******ed comparrison. A court of law has too many technocalities to compare to science or religion. In a court of law evidence can be ignored due to police misconduct, threats on the jury, sympathy for the defendant, or mistrials. So even though he is clearly guilty its always possible to get away with a crime. Thats not the same with this. Theres no mistrials, threats, or sympathy to exclude evidence here. Theres just no evidence supporting either theory so people take their own faith.

The idea of an explosion coming out of nowhere and creating life can be seen as being ridiculous as a high powered being creating it.

Get off your high horse. Until science can explain the beggining to life without theories and what ifs, everyone is allowed to form their own opinion of what happened. So don't go looking down on anyone, because those theories are just as much based on belief as anyone elses.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Wrong. Those who truly believe in a life after death, have nothing to be scared of.

sorry but that sounds quite delusional. You and I both know that if the most adamant believer on earth, was on his deathbed right now, he'd be crying hysterically, and so would his family. Afterwards a long mourning process would take place.

You are too materlistic. I know ppl who arent that succesfull and are completely content with their life.

What does family, friends, and working hard to acheive lifelong goals have to do with material possession? When I mentioned fullfilling careers, I wasn't talking about money, and you know it. Your dodging my points aobut fullfillment, and switching it to material posessions.

I understand this, but the fact that you write it off by saying, well i cant see God therefore he doesnt exsist makes you just like the ones who refuse to believe in anything other than God

I never used the fact that you can't see him as evidence he doesn't exist. Your dodging the points I did make about your god gap thinking.

You dont know what lies in the soul. Its not like you can cut one open and say, "see here is the soul, here what lies within"

So your saying self awareness does not lie in the brain? Why not refute my comments, that I used to back up my assertion that self awareness lies in the brain. Your dodging my points, and not really refuting them.

Well if you drive a car you could be killed in a wreck, should you stop drivng based JUST off of that???

Absolutely not. The tragedies committed in the name of God are irrelevant as to whether or not God exists.

There are deeper problems there. There have been gays who have come out only to be shun that DONT kill themself.

so what's your point?

Who says one who believs in God cant think for themself?

NOt all believers, but too many. Yourself included. If you think God thinks' you should do something, you'd do it. You would not look at it objectively.

Really? Than what's with all this "count 2 for the faithful" talk.

Here is the reality.

A lot of atheist get fullfillment, from knowing that they think logically and scientifically. A lot of them benefit from knowing where they came from. It's important to them.

A lot of religous people get a lot of fullfillment from going to church. For a lot of people it improves the quality of their lives. It doesn't make them smile and laugh with a good old time on their death bed, as you claim, but for some people it does improve the quality of their life.

Count 1 for the atheists, and 1 for the faithfuls.

But were still correct, and you guys are still incorrect about what happened and didn't happen. It doesnt' mean were better or even happier people, or even smarter.

but you did make some really outrageous claims, about how I'm being denied heaven, and religous people smile on their deathbed.

 

[The Chairman]

I personally believe that being atheist is just as narrow-minded and ridiculous as being radical Christian or Islamic or any other religion. There is no scientific evidence that can fully disprove God, just as there is nothing that can prove its existence. It seems to me that being agnostic makes the most sense.

Personally I believe in the Judeo-Christian God and believe that Jesus did exist and was in fact God's son in some way. As far as everything else in the Bible - I take it with a large grain of salt, after all - it was written by flawed man.

So with that belief I do believe in evolution, though I think there was a higher power at work - and I believe in the Big Bang.

StorminNorman, you are brilliant.

I agree 100 with you. Atheists are often narrow-minded, especially those who are excessively humanistic. They act as if it's an absolute fact that there is not a God, when in fact nothing has proven or disproven it. The Radical Christians are just as bad.

I too believe in the Judeo-Christian God, and that Jesus Christ was indeed the son of God. And yes, I too am extremely subjective in my view of The Bible. I value most of the lessons, and I believe in stories such as Moses, Ruth, Noah, The Tower Of Babel and David & Goliath (Jonah & The Whale I'm still on the fence with,though I'm leaning towards yes), but I value the lessons more than the stories, though there is some stuff that I disagree with (homosexuality and the statement that you can only get into Heaven if you're a Christian).

And yes, since the book was written by man, you have to be subjective, since God didn't write it. You have to put your opinion on who God truly is into perspective (in my case all loving and forgiving), and wonder what he truly would have said to The Apostles, and what was put in based on man's personal opinions or perhaps prejudices.

Yes it is silly.

No, it isn't. There is nothing silly about believing in something that gives you comfort, which is what God does, and what the belief of Heaven does.

You're the typical excessive humanist atheist. You're arrogant, and you see your beliefs as absolute fact. We're learning evolution in biology right now, and I do not see how it disproves God or anything else in The Bible other than creationism.

Also, what's your response to various claims by millions of people around who have had their prayers answered and had God do wonderful things for them? What's your response to that? Answered prayer cannot in reality just be the result of luck, coincedence and science. Let's see you refute that.

You have the gay kid who commits suicide because of his religous parents, and then you have the lesbian, my sister, who is comforted by her atheist brother when she comes out of the closet.

That doesn't prove ****. Yes, the radicals are extremist freaks, as are the extremist atheists who go around taking down Christmas trees and taking God out of everything. But anyone who truly understands the morals and lessons of Christianity knows that any true Christian will accept the homosexual as they are (I definitely would). You're grasping at straws.

Religion does cause some messed up things, but that's only the radicals. Christians who truly understand God's message are mortified when people sin in the name of God.

Evolution: Something with tons of scientific evidence
Creationism: Based on wishful thinking, no proof what so ever.

To say that there is no proof whatsover is childish. Yes, the evidence of evolution is far more solid and believable, but creationism does have some evidence behind it. The X & Y chromosomes in our body were traced back as far as possible, and they were aged at their oldest 6,000 years, and they were traced back to one man and woman. We also have dirt naturally embedded in our pores.What did God create man out of according to The Bible? Also, we have dinosaur fossils with blood in them. Blood cannot stay in a preserved state for millions of years.

Again, evolution has the stronger evidence, but there is backing to creationism. It's not as strong, but it's there.

Also, in case anyone is interested, I urge you all to check out this wonderful article written by a former atheist. It's incredibly well written, researched and inspiring.

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html