The Pope on Evolution, creationism

[Mr Sparkle]

Now you are correct, my cynical friend. Much like most anything, if its convenient, I roll with it. Otherwise 'tis not a blip on the radar.

You forget: I accept medical sciences and aspects of it, such as the healing properties of platlets and blood cells. If my allergies clear up, I think, "damn, those are some good allergy shots". Who do ya think gives the doctors the capacity to learn and retain the information necessary for their profession, hmm?

LOL...so he gives them THAT capacity, but fails when it comes to understanding something as simple (according to some religious people) as creation?

you're kidding right?

 

[Victarion]

I think logically and am of the Christian faith...thereby disproving that particular stereotype.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Thats the thing with these beliefs. I believe there is, there for i KNOW im right. Ill continue living my life as such, no harm done.

After reading my posts, or the words of many atheists and scientists, I truly believe that anybody would have serious doubts about their faith.

Your belief might cause harm, and it might not. I believe that Conservative religous beliefs do cause a quite deal of harm.

 

[The Chairman]

I'm a Roman Catholic as well and have the same views as you.

Cool. (This goes for Matt's response to my post on the first page as well.)

 

[Victarion]

LOL...so he gives them THAT capacity, but fails when it comes to understanding something as simple (according to some religious people) as creation?

you're kidding right?

Well, you know there are some folks who like to complicate simple matters.

Perhaps I should make it simpler for you: Ultimately, He instills in them the drive to study and absorb all this complex knowledge. Can you at least understand that, O Foam of Vengeance?

 

[Spider-Bite]

Whats your point. You have to truly see something to belive it? It boils down to, those who belive in God, do so because it makes them feel good, no more no less, at least thats how it is with me. Sure you have fanatics who force their view down everyones throat, but you have them on both sides.

so you admit, that your just pretending to believe it and your really not convinced by anything that God exists? You admit you have no argument or evidence?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

I think logically and am of the Christian faith...thereby disproving that particular stereotype.

so then, you think that...again, science is correct when it comes to evolution?

 

[Spider-Bite]

Wow. What a ******ed comparrison. A court of law has too many technocalities to compare to science or religion.
In a court of law evidence can be ignored due to police misconduct, threats on the jury, sympathy for the defendant, or mistrials. So even though he is clearly guilty its always possible to get away with a crime.

It's a perfect comparison. I wasn't talking about the verdict, I was talking about the fact that everybody who looked at the evidence, whether it was admitted into trial or not, knows he's guilty, even though nobody can explain everything.

Thats not the same with this. Theres no mistrials, threats, or sympathy to exclude evidence here.

Ever heard of hell?

Theres just no evidence supporting either theory so people take their own faith.

That's a lie and you know it. The evidence for the big bang and evolution is overwhelming. Maybe stan lee based spider-man off of a real person who lived a long time ago. Maybe he didnt'. You have no evidence he didnt', but we all know he didn't. It requires no faith at all.

The idea of an explosion coming out of nowhere and creating life can be seen as being ridiculous as a high powered being creating it.

It didn't come from nowhere. It came from a singularity. Nobody is claiming the singularity came from nowhere. We claim we dont' know the answer to the question of where it came from. We admit we don't know, rather than just pick something and put faith in it for no reason.

Get off your high horse. Until science can explain the beggining to life without theories and what ifs, everyone is allowed to form their own opinion of what happened. So don't go looking down on anyone, because those theories are just as much based on belief as anyone elses.

When did I say you shouldn't be allowed to believe something? This is a democracy. Your allowed to believe whatever you want, and admit what you believe, and I'm allowed to say I think your belief is nothing more than primitive superstition.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Well, you know there are some folks who like to complicate simple matters.

Perhaps I should make it simpler for you: Ultimately, He instills in them the drive to study and absorb all this complex knowledge. Can you at least understand that, O Foam of Vengeance?

LOL, perhaps it's just your limits trying to make something grandiose and complex "simple" so you can better understand it.
oh and god is not a "he" just so you know.

 

[Spider-Bite]

We all can talk about this until we all die. No one is going to change their opinion, so this argument is completely pointless.

If that was true there would be no atheists. I am living proof that people will change their mind. I was very religous. I went to church every week, and read the bible every day. My mind was changed, because I admit the truth when I see it.

 

[Victarion]

LOL, perhaps it's just your limits trying to make something grandiose and complex "simple" so you can better understand it.
oh and god is not a "he" just so you know.

There's nothing complex about a theory dictating that we came from apes, and will continue to change and grow until we reach a perfect state.

By logic, if science can not prove something, then it is untrue, correct?

 

[Spider-Bite]

No, it isn't. There is nothing silly about believing in something that gives you comfort, which is what God does, and what the belief of Heaven does.

So if a grown man believes in Santa Clause are you going to take his belief seriously?

You're the typical excessive humanist atheist. You're arrogant, and you see your beliefs as absolute fact.

No I don't. I even admitted and explained how it is possible that a God exists, and even mapped out a theoretical possible way for God to come into existence and even be our creator. But it's obviously highly impropable that that is what happened.

We're learning evolution in biology right now, and I do not see how it disproves God or anything else in The Bible other than creationism.

What are you telling me for? I was debatign whether or not their belief in the existence of God was reasonable or realistic.

Also, what's your response to various claims by millions of people around who have had their prayers answered

Let's see billions of people pray hundreds of thousands of times in their lifetime that something good will happen to them. And once every so often something good happens to them. Wow! Amazing coincedence. I just can't explain it.

and had God do wonderful things for them? What's your response to that?

that never happened. God has never done anything, since he doesn't exist. You just assume for a fact he exists, and then call other people narrow minded for assuming he doesn't exist. Then you have the nerve to call me arrogant? I think the pot just called the kettle black.

Answered prayer cannot in reality just be the result of luck, coincedence and science. Let's see you refute that.

Yes it can. Let's see. Just about every person waiting for a sutiable donor for a heart transplant is going to pray for that to happen. One out of so many get that suitable heart. It's not even an unlikely coincedence.

trillions of events take place every minute on this planet. Coincedences are bound to happen numerous times within everyone's life.

I'm sorry man but your argument and hypocritical insults make for a quite weak argument.

That doesn't prove ****. Yes, the radicals are extremist freaks, as are the extremist atheists who go around taking down Christmas trees and taking God out of everything.

I've met a ton of atheists in my life. I've met zeroe who do the things or support the things you just claimed. It's an inaccurate stereotype put out by intolerant Christains like Bill O Reily to make us look like immoral heathens.

But anyone who truly understands the morals and lessons of Christianity knows that any true Christian will accept the homosexual as they are (I definitely would). You're grasping at straws.

who decides what a true christain is? who knows what god thinks?

Religion does cause some messed up things, but that's only the radicals. Christians who truly understand God's message are mortified when people sin in the name of God.

you have no possible way of knowing what his message is or was.

To say that there is no proof whatsover is childish. Yes, the evidence of evolution is far more solid and believable, but creationism does have some evidence behind it. The X & Y chromosomes in our body were traced back as far as possible, and they were aged at their oldest 6,000 years, and they were traced back to one man and woman.

It's called mutation. there was a different version before that, and it was mitochondria that was traced back to one woman, and it's not even proven. Get your facts straight.

We also have dirt naturally embedded in our pores.

HahaHa. dirt embedded in our pores? Take a bath. And learn what embedded means. If we were made out of dirt, it wouldn't be embedded.

What did God create man out of according to The Bible? Also, we have dinosaur fossils with blood in them.
Blood cannot stay in a preserved state for millions of years.

God gap?

Again, evolution has the stronger evidence, but there is backing to creationism. It's not as strong, but it's there.

your grasping.

 

[Sloth7d]

It's a perfect comparison. I wasn't talking about the verdict, I was talking about the fact that everybody who looked at the evidence, whether it was admitted into trial or not, knows he's guilty, even though nobody can explain everything.

Its still different. Everyone knows he's guilty, but decided to let him off the hook for whatever reason. Its not the same as not having proof and not knowing anything.

Ever heard of hell?

Funny.

That's a lie and you know it. The evidence for the big bang and evolution is overwhelming. Maybe stan lee based spider-man off of a real person who lived a long time ago. Maybe he didnt'. You have no evidence he didnt', but we all know he didn't. It requires no faith at all.

Did you record the bigbang or something?
Prove it. Prove thats exactly what happened right here and now 100%. No probabilities. No this is most likely what happened. Prove thats exactly what happened.

It didn't come from nowhere. It came from a singularity. Nobody is claiming the singularity came from nowhere. We claim we dont' know the answer to the question of where it came from. We admit we don't know, rather than just pick something and put faith in it for no reason.

Sounds like it came from nowhere to me. But if you don't know how can you ridicule those who believe it didn't happen that way?

When did I say you shouldn't be allowed to believe something? This is a democracy. Your allowed to believe whatever you want, and admit what you believe, and I'm allowed to say I think your belief is nothing more than primitive superstition.

As am I able to say anyone who thinks there is nothing more to this world than what we know is narrow minded. And thus that goes against your whole argument. My whole argument is that we all have seperate point of veiws on the big picture of life. And I don't care if you think things happened a different way, but do not look down upon those who believe differently if you don't have 100% proof you are correct.

 

[StorminNorman]

Something doesn't have to be proven in order to be believed. It is compltely possible that a God does exist, but it's highly impropable that our existence is the result of a God. Your talking astronimically impropable.

It actually requires an open mind to become an atheist the majority of the time, because most athests have religous peers, parents, and so on. Most of the time people just go with whatver people around them believe, and no matter how much evidence you show them they refuse to accept the truth. It takes an open mind to look at the evidence objecitively and become an atheist.



A lot of people named Jesus lived back then. Somethign like one out of 4 people alive back then were named Jesus.



Talk about narrow minded? You have no evidence at all, that he was Jesus's son. You claim were narrow minded because we can't prove God doesn't exist, yet you belief this guy was the son of God without proof? isn't that hypocritical?


It all comes down to this. Is there an invisible unicorn on my roof smoking a joint? No. There isn't, and I don't need proof to know that. You can't prove there isn't an invisible unicorn on my roof, but we still know there isn't one.

I don't need evidence - that is why it is called faith. It is a personal choice I have made.

Just like you can't point to evidence stating there is no God, or even that we are not a product of a God. You still chose to believe there is nothing out there, or at least nothing that has any real connection to us. Its both a matter of faith.

 

[Victarion]

So if a grown man believes in Santa Clause are you going to take his belief seriously?



No I don't. I even admitted and explained how it is possible that a God exists, and even mapped out a theoretical possible way for God to come into existence and even be our creator. But it's obviously highly impropable that that is what happened.


What are you telling me for? I was debatign whether or not their belief in the existence of God was reasonable or realistic.


Let's see billions of people pray hundreds of thousands of times in their lifetime that something good will happen to them. And once every so often something good happens to them. Wow! Amazing coincedence. I just can't explain it.

that never happened. God has never done anything, since he doesn't exist. You just assume for a fact he exists, and then call other people narrow minded for assuming he doesn't exist. Then you have the nerve to call me arrogant? I think the pot just called the kettle black.



Yes it can. Let's see. Just about every person waiting for a sutiable donor for a heart transplant is going to pray for that to happen. One out of so many get that suitable heart. It's not even an unlikely coincedence.

trillions of events take place every minute on this planet. Coincedences are bound to happen numerous times within everyone's life.

I'm sorry man but your argument and hypocritical insults make for a quite weak argument.

That doesn't prove ****. Yes, the radicals are extremist freaks, as are the extremist atheists who go around taking down Christmas trees and taking God out of everything. But anyone who truly understands the morals and lessons of Christianity knows that any true Christian will accept the homosexual as they are (I definitely would). You're grasping at straws.

Religion does cause some messed up things, but that's only the radicals. Christians who truly understand God's message are mortified when people sin in the name of God.



To say that there is no proof whatsover is childish. Yes, the evidence of evolution is far more solid and believable, but creationism does have some evidence behind it. The X & Y chromosomes in our body were traced back as far as possible, and they were aged at their oldest 6,000 years, and they were traced back to one man and woman. We also have dirt naturally embedded in our pores.What did God create man out of according to The Bible? Also, we have dinosaur fossils with blood in them. Blood cannot stay in a preserved state for millions of years.

Again, evolution has the stronger evidence, but there is backing to creationism. It's not as strong, but it's there.

Also, in case anyone is interested, I urge you all to check out this wonderful article written by a former atheist. It's incredibly well written, researched and inspiring.

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

[/quote]

You assume that God does not exist. There is no proof that he does not indeed exist.

Can we get back on topic now?

 

[Sloth7d]

If that was true there would be no atheists. I am living proof that people will change their mind. I was very religous. I went to church every week, and read the bible every day. My mind was changed, because I admit the truth when I see it.

Alot of people who had very happy lives one day decided that suicide was the answer. Should everyone admit to their version of the truth?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

There's nothing complex about a theory dictating that we came from apes, and will continue to change and grow until we reach a perfect state.

By logic, if science can not prove something, then it is untrue, correct?

I think you need to read the theory first and then talk about it.
otherwise it's really kind of silly.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Its still different. Everyone knows he's guilty, but decided to let him off the hook for whatever reason. Its not the same as not having proof and not knowing anything.

he was sentenced to death, after being convicted.

Did you record the bigbang or something?
Prove it. Prove thats exactly what happened right here and now 100%. No probabilities. No this is most likely what happened. Prove thats exactly what happened.

learn a thing or two about modern astronomy. You know how were seeing what the sun looked like 8 minutes ago? well the hubble can take pictures of light patterns left over from what the universe used to look like. Soon we will have a telescope in orbit to take picture from before the big bang.

do you think we will see God? I dont'.

Sounds like it came from nowhere to me. But if you don't know how can you ridicule those who believe it didn't happen that way?

Your adding your own belief into the theory so you can refute what you added, because you can't refut what is already put there by scientists.

As am I able to say anyone who thinks there is nothing more to this world than what we know is narrow minded. And thus that goes against your whole argument. My whole argument is that we all have seperate point of veiws on the big picture of life. And I don't care if you think things happened a different way, but do not look down upon those who believe differently if you don't have 100% proof you are correct.

I'm not looking down on you. I'm looking down on your belief. There are millions of people on this planet whom are smarter than me whom believe in God. They are not stupid. Their belief is stupid. A smart person who has many intelligent beliefs is still capable of being wrong or stupid once in a while. I dont' consider myself an idiot, and I used to believe in God.

 

[Spider-Bite]

I don't need evidence - that is why it is called faith. It is a personal choice I have made.

Just like you can't point to evidence stating there is no God, or even that we are not a product of a God. You still chose to believe there is nothing out there, or at least nothing that has any real connection to us. Its both a matter of faith.

Refute my points. Why is that none of you refute my points? You guys just invent a new angle every time for me to shoot down, but never specifically attack the points I laid out. Not just you. All of you have done that to every post of mine in this thread.

Yes I hit nails on heads. I refute your guy's points every time. Why can't you guys do the same to me?

 

[Sloth7d]

he was sentenced to death, after being convicted.

Then their was a reasonable amount of evidence to convict him. Eitherway it doesn't change my point.

learn a thing or two about modern astronomy. You know how were seeing what the sun looked like 8 minutes ago? well the hubble can take pictures of light patterns left over from what the universe used to look like. Soon we will have a telescope in orbit to take picture from before the big bang.

Well, until then my statement stands. If I'm shown to be wrong i the future with this, I'll submit to your thinking.

do you think we will see God? I dont'.

If God is omnipotent like they say, and doesn't want to be seen, he won't be seen.

Your adding your own belief into the theory so you can refute what you added, because you can't refut what is already put there by scientists.

Its a scientific theory. A theory and a belief have two common attributes. They have yet to be proven. So you can have your theories and I'll stick to my beliefs.

I'm not looking down on you. I'm looking down on your belief. There are millions of people on this planet whom are smarter than me whom believe in God. They are not stupid. Their belief is stupid. A smart person who has many intelligent beliefs is still capable of being wrong or stupid once in a while. I dont' consider myself an idiot, and I used to believe in God.

It seems that way. My whole argument from the start is until it is fully proven, you can't count out everyones personal standings on what happened in the beggining(no matter how unrealistic it may seem).
You came at me first trying to impose your thoughts on me. I wish not to impose my thoughts on anyone.

 

[The Chairman]

So if a grown man believes in Santa Clause are you going to take his belief seriously?

Santa is different. God holds substance. There's evidence, and he makes sense.

No I don't. I even admitted and explained how it is possible that a God exists, and even mapped out a theoretical possible way for God to come into existence and even be our creator. But it's obviously highly impropable that that is what happened.

I read it. About the alien becoming a God? You're right, it's unlikely. But he nomral perception of who God is makes sense. It has substance, has some evidence behind it, and fits in with Louis Pasteur's discovery that life cannot arrive from non-life.

What are you telling me for? I was debatign whether or not their belief in the existence of God was reasonable or realistic.

And you are not basing your opinion on the principles of secular evolution, which states that we evolved naturally with no other intervention.

Let's see billions of people pray hundreds of thousands of times in their lifetime that something good will happen to them. And once every so often something good happens to them. Wow! Amazing coincedence. I just can't explain it.

There are some people who have had amazing things happen to them through prayer. People who were dying from diseases, ewere in desparate moments of peril, or who were simply suffering through an amazingly painful personal life crisis have turned to God and recovered. Granted, God cannot grant every request, but when one is granted, you have to take it into consideration.

that never happened. God has never done anything, since he doesn't exist.

Wow, got proof of that?

You just assume for a fact he exists

Just as you have put your personal belief as a fact throughout this entire thread?

and then call other people narrow minded for assuming he doesn't exist. Then you have the nerve to call me arrogant? I think the pot just called the kettle black.

Again, I just essentially gave you a taste of what more or less I've seen you do to every believer who's given an answer in this thread. You yourself put your opinion across as fact more or less, or at least you came across like that.

Yes it can. Let's see. Just about every person waiting for a sutiable donor for a heart transplant is going to pray for that to happen. One out of so many get that suitable heart. It's not even an unlikely coincedence.

Again, sadly God cannot grant every request. He grants those most worthy, and those who feels are not worthy to die. Those whose times have comes, he calls on them to end their suffering. It's my belief, and I'm fine and secure with it. When my grandmothers passed away, I realized it was because God himself had done all that they can, and that they sinned by abusing their bodies in the past by smoking, and that God felt they needn't suffer no longer.

God can't save for everyone. If he could, there would probably a lot less dead people in the world.

trillions of events take place every minute on this planet. Coincedences are bound to happen numerous times within everyone's life.

Mere coincedences take place in everyone's life, but those that transcend the definition of a mere coincedence, such as miraculous disease recovery, recovery form peril or anything like that, has to be taken into consideration of the victims claim that it is through prayer or some form of divine intervention.

I'm sorry man but your argument and hypocritical insults make for a quite weak argument.

That's your opinion.

I've met a ton of atheists in my life. I've met zeroe who do the things or support the things you just claimed. It's an inaccurate stereotype put out by intolerant Christains like Bill O Reily to make us look like immoral heathens.

There are atheists like that. What about the ones who took The Pledge Of Allegiance out of schools simply because of the words "Under God"? And what about the ACLU, who thinks that Christmas decorations should not be displayed in department stores, that students can't read The Bible to themselves in school, and feel that God shoukd not have a place at all in activities that are not exclusively religious? They chastised a public school for hacing a picture of Jesus hung on the wall.

who decides what a true christain is? who knows what god thinks?

No one and no one. We base it off our own personal perspective and what we are tought to be God's message, and what we are tought by the Christian faith, You often used Christians in your debates, so that's why I bought it up.

you have no possible way of knowing what his message is or was.

Exactly. That's why I'm subjective when it comes to The Bible. I believe it's God word, but it has been altered in some ways.

It's called mutation. there was a different version before that, and it was mitochondria that was traced back to one woman, and it's not even proven. Get your facts straight.

I've talked to various people who've researched it, showed me the evidence, and while I'm not in agreement, it holds water. Remeber, I believe in theistic evolution. But I won't bash any evdience contradicting it if it makes sense.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

There is faith,but eventually Evoultion will surpass many of that.

 

[StorminNorman]

Refute my points. Why is that none of you refute my points? You guys just invent a new angle every time for me to shoot down, but never specifically attack the points I laid out. Not just you. All of you have done that to every post of mine in this thread.

Yes I hit nails on heads. I refute your guy's points every time. Why can't you guys do the same to me?

Ignoring the fact that I did go with you point for point in your "Martial Arts will save Humanity, hooray Socialism!" thread, leading you to eventually abandon it...

Something doesn't have to be proven in order to be believed. It is compltely possible that a God does exist, but it's highly impropable that our existence is the result of a God. Your talking astronimically impropable.

Life in itself is astronomically improbable. If you are willing to admit that a higher power may exist, it is only a little jump in logic to believe that it may play some impact on our lives.

If you are willing to admit a God does exist, then that mixed with the improbability of life in the universe means it is not a far stretch to believe that some sort of higher power played at least some role in the formation of life on this planet.

It actually requires an open mind to become an atheist the majority of the time, because most athests have religous peers, parents, and so on. Most of the time people just go with whatver people around them believe, and no matter how much evidence you show them they refuse to accept the truth. It takes an open mind to look at the evidence objecitively and become an atheist.

Not really. In fact I think it is far easier in today's cynical age to be an atheist than a Christian. Teen's by nature question there parents constantly, and at times unfairly, and also strive for absolute freedom - something that religion beliefs can interfere with.

Since we can agree that there is not enough evidence to definitively prove or disprove the existence of God - then if one were to truly observe all the evidence objectively, than one would be agnostic.

Quote: Personally I believe in the Judeo-Christian God and believe that Jesus did exist
A lot of people named Jesus lived back then. Somethign like one out of 4 people alive back then were named Jesus.

Quote:
and was in fact God's son in some way.
Talk about narrow minded? You have no evidence at all, that he was Jesus's son. You claim were narrow minded because we can't prove God doesn't exist, yet you belief this guy was the son of God without proof? isn't that hypocritical?

I should better explain my "atheist are narrow minded" comment. To believe there is no God is not narrow minded - it is simply having faith in something. Just as I do not believe believing in God is being "narrow minded".

An atheist, such as yourself, who talks down to, condescends and mocks Christians - now THAT is an example of atheists being narrow minded.

It all comes down to this. Is there an invisible unicorn on my roof smoking a joint? No. There isn't, and I don't need proof to know that. You can't prove there isn't an invisible unicorn on my roof, but we still know there isn't one.

See, now that is being condescending and mocking the beliefs of billions of people. That is an example of you being a narrow-minded prick.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Santa is different. God holds substance. There's evidence, and he makes sense

.
how does he hold what substance?

I read it. About the alien becoming a God? You're right, it's unlikely. But he nomral perception of who God is makes sense. It has substance, has some evidence behind it, and fits in with Louis Pasteur's discovery that life cannot arrive from non-life.

I don't believe life arose from non life.
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11510626&postcount=5

And you are not basing your opinion on the principles of secular evolution, which states that we evolved naturally with no other intervention.

the fossil record does not indicate a guiding force. There were many dead ends, and various directions life on this planet took. It took 5 billion years before humans came into existence.

There are some people who have had amazing things happen to them through prayer. People who were dying from diseases, ewere in desparate moments of peril, or who were simply suffering through an amazingly painful personal life crisis have turned to God and recovered. Granted, God cannot grant every request, but when one is granted, you have to take it into consideration.

There are also people suffering from diseases who turned to science. Medical science.
However dee prayer which induces a trance, has been studied and even monitored with cat scans. it is a proven fact that Meditation, as well as deep trance like prayer causes the brain to release endorphines creating a high, and healing chemicals. An atheist is capable of doing the same exact thing with the same exact result. It is not a miracle, and science has fully explained it.

Just as you have put your personal belief as a fact throughout this entire thread?

No I didn't. I merely acknowledge how inpropable it is that God exists.

Again, I just essentially gave you a taste of what more or less I've seen you do to every believer who's given an answer in this thread. You yourself put your opinion across as fact more or less, or at least you came across like that.

No I have not said that I know for a fact that God does not exist.

Mere coincedences take place in everyone's life, but those that transcend the definition of a mere coincedence, such as miraculous disease recovery, recovery form peril or anything like that, has to be taken into consideration of the victims claim that it is through prayer or some form of divine intervention.

this has been fully explained by Science.

There are atheists like that. What about the ones who took The Pledge Of Allegiance out of schools simply because of the words "Under God"?

that doesn't make them like that. this is not one nation under God.

And what about the ACLU, who thinks that Christmas decorations should not be displayed in department stores,

Actually the ACLU believes it should be up to the department store to make that decision for themselves. That's why they are called the American Civil Liberties Union. It's the conservatives who wanna force everybody to celebrate Christmas the same way. Every atheist I've ever met in my entire life celebrates Christmas. Every single one of them. And I'm sure that most members of the ACLU are not even atheist.

that students can't read The Bible to themselves in school,

Can you provide a link that shows the ACLU thinks a student should not be allowed to read the bible in school?

Chances are most members probably think it depends on the situation. It's like reading a comic book during class, or a sports magazine. Your supposed to be doing homework.

and feel that God shoukd not have a place at all in activities that are not exclusively religious?

That's a lie.

They chastised a public school for hacing a picture of Jesus hung on the wall.

As they should. School is not church. I do not support turning school into church so we can brainwash children who are too young to know any better.

No one and no one. We base it off our own personal perspective and what we are tought to be God's message, and what we are tought by the Christian faith, You often used Christians in your debates, so that's why I bought it up.

You said "true Christains who understand God's message"

Exactly. That's why I'm subjective when it comes to The Bible. I believe it's God word, but it has been altered in some ways.

Luckily that's the non dangerous kind of religous view.

I've talked to various people who've researched it, showed me the evidence, and while I'm not in agreement, it holds water. Remeber, I believe in theistic evolution. But I won't bash any evdience contradicting it if it makes sense.

I'm sure it does hold water.

 

[Victarion]

Spider-Bite...I see you are gunning for the separation of church and state statute...however by removing religion from school, you are, in a way, pressing your beliefs of atheism on the children who are "too young to understand" through the separation of church and state statute.

You cannot deny that.

EDIT: It would seem that you use science as a scapegoat, much as we do our faith. Perhaps you should hook up with Tom Cruise, no?