The Presidential Debates

[Carcharodon]

I think the fact that all the right has as a defense is "AYERS! ACORN! AYERS!" [/Tourette's] says a lot of good things about Obama as a candidate on the whole.

 

[jaguarr]

To the recent discussion in this thread:

jag

 

[jaguarr]

To the recent discussion in this thread:

jag

 

[Gilpesh]

To Jag:

 

[jaguarr]

^^


jag

 

[The Senator]

I think the fact that the vast majority of voters could care LESS about Ayers shows what kind of a cluster **** the Republicans are facing right now. Ever since this "issue" was brought up by McCain, his performance in national and swing state polls has gone down. Further proves how out of touch the McCain campaign and RNC are

 

[Goddessreicho]

I didn't think I would ever say this, but I think I hate McCain. His embarrassing and utter complete dismissal of Equal pay and the way he laughed at the statue of limitations made me hate him. I think he hates women.

His brush off of the health of a mother (which is where the second largest amounts of abortions come from and is far more prevelant than Lifers like to admit) was also very disturbing.

I mean seriously, America now has the highest infant mortality rate for an industrialized nation. The next higher mortality rate to go up will be pregnant women. This is DIRECTLY related to the lack of specialized healthcare for women.

Of course, if John McCain does get elected, that means that these problems will only get exponetially worse. We get to regress back to the olden days where these items

Spoiler

or even older times when these

Spoiler

were used and it was all encouraged but hushed up and no questions were asked and people could still be sanctimonious.

No! This man, his scary and painful misogynistic tendencies, need to stay as far away from executive powers as human possible, oh and so does his ridiculous puppet who STILL doesn't know what the 14th amendment is and how it was the cornerstone of Roe.

I'll stick with the That Guy and The Other Guy who penned the violence against Women Act PERIOD

 

[Fading]

He didn't address it this morning. I'm more disgusted this morning with his answer than I was last night. Maybe if he'd said something to the effect that threatening Obama's life or shouting racial epithets is in no way acceptable and that he expects better from his supporters, I'd respect him more. But he didn't. He acted offended that some of the things his supporters have been saying at these rallies is being called into question and even threw a tizzy fit over Lewis' comments on it. He is tacitly approving these kinds of comments by not adamantly and completely denouncing them. Very dangerous ground.

jag

Agreed. McCain should be leading now, but instead he's fanning the flames. McCain/Palin raised the topic with all the, "Who is Barack Obama?", "palin' around with terrorists" stuff. If McCain would come out and say he doesn't condone the death threats, mock funerals, and racial slurs...they might stop. Instead he ignores them, and takes offense when ppl question it.

 

[Showtime]

"I'm not George Bush. If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago."

 

[Fading]

I didn't think I would ever say this, but I think I hate McCain. His embarrassing and utter complete dismissal of Equal pay and the way he laughed at the statue of limitations made me hate him. I think he hates women....

Now that I've had more time to think about it, I do think McCain shot himself in the foot with his statements towards women last night. I mentioned thinking his, "health of the mother" ironic finger quoting was disgusting, but now that you mention it his brushing off of the equal pay question did him no favors either. Probably didn't help by mocking 'extreme environmentalists' last night, or at the last debate saying a projector for a planetarium is a waste of money.

Palin was atleast partially brought on board to get McCain more female votes. However last night I wonder how many he turned off with comments like that? Not that his overexaggerated facial expressions, heavy breathing, and constant attacking helped either.

 

[Paradoxium]

I didn't think I would ever say this, but I think I hate McCain. His embarrassing and utter complete dismissal of Equal pay and the way he laughed at the statue of limitations made me hate him. I think he hates women.

His brush off of the health of a mother (which is where the second largest amounts of abortions come from and is far more prevelant than Lifers like to admit) was also very disturbing.

I mean seriously, America now has the highest infant mortality rate for an industrialized nation. The next higher mortality rate to go up will be pregnant women. This is DIRECTLY related to the lack of specialized healthcare for women.

Of course, if John McCain does get elected, that means that these problems will only get exponetially worse. We get to regress back to the olden days where these items

Spoiler

or even older times when these

Spoiler

were used and it was all encouraged but hushed up and no questions were asked and people could still be sanctimonious.

No! This man, his scary and painful misogynistic tendencies, need to stay as far away from executive powers as human possible, oh and so does his ridiculous puppet who STILL doesn't know what the 14th amendment is and how it was the cornerstone of Roe.

I'll stick with the That Guy and The Other Guy who penned the violence against Women Act PERIOD

I think you hate men.

 

[Fading]

"I'm not George Bush. If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago."

Lol....creepy. Yet sadly it's still not as creepy as the zombie McCain GIF last night, which was an actual facial expression. I think I had a dream about McCain rising from my floor boards with that expression chasing me shouting, "I'm going to eat your brains and destroy your healthcare!"

 

[jaguarr]

Now that I've had more time to think about it, I do think McCain shot himself in the foot with his statements towards women last night. I mentioned thinking his, "health of the mother" ironic finger quoting was disgustin, but now that you mention it his brushing off of the equal pay question did him no favors either. Probably didn't help by mocking 'extreme environmentalists' last night, or at the last debate saying a projector for a planetarium is a waste of money.

Palin was atleast partially brought on board to get McCain more female votes. However last night I wonder how many he turned off with comments like that? Not that his overexaggerated facial expressions, heavy breathing, and constant attacking helped either.

We watched the debate on CNN where they had the meter for male and female undecided voters in Ohio going and every time McCain spoke, the women's meter would drop to the basement (it also spiked to the top a lot when Obama was speaking). I found that interesting, particularly regarding some of the things McCain was saying on women's issues. The mens' meter was up and down for both candidates on various things but tended to stay more towards the median most of the evening.

jag

 

[jaguarr]

I think you hate men.

I think she just hates John.

jag

 

[The Guard]

Oh, no! Nancy Regan broke her hip. Let's bring the country together over it.

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

This was a much better debate than the other two. Bob Schieffer was a much better moderator than either of the others have been.

Now...

This stupid Joe The Plumber thing is absurd. I understand what McCain and his campaign are trying to do, but is that the BEST he and his campaign can do? Finding some guy named "Joe" and creating such an absurd tactic? But hey, it'll play great in the sticks, won't it?

McCain went on the attack on the economy. His ideas sucked for the most part, but he was still on the offensive. Granted, he was just repeating what the original bailout proposal was, which he didn't come up with. Regardless, John McCain was winning this debate for the first 20 minutes or so. He had Obama on defense, despite the validity of his statements. Then he turned himself right back into a child, essentially whining about how it's Obama's fault that McCain's campaign has been negative, and dwelling on both Acorn and Ayers, neither of which he himself seemed to know much about beyond the broadest implications. And then when Obama defended this intial salvo adequately, McCain appeared to have nothing to fall back on. Nothing. No proof, no further explanation for his campaign's broad accusations, nothing. And he made himself look like an idiot. Obama said what he needed to say about Ayers and Acorn, and McCain had nowhere to go from there. And then, instead of LETTING IT GO, he went the "Lewis" route, and Obama NAILED him on the "hurt feelings" line. Nailed him. I think, right there, that John McCain shot himself in the foot. Obama kept his cool. McCain did not.

Neither of them have the answers right now for the Economy, nor would I expect them to. But McCain repeats someone else's ideas, and Obama goes a bit more depth into the problems we face.

They're about even on Energy.

McCain still can't defend his health care plan. In the meantime, he's relying on attacks against Obama's (the "fine" thing) that have already been nationally disproven.

Obama gave a much more involved and appropriate answer about Roe V Wade, and his stance on abortion. And he successfully defended voting for the "Refusal provide medical care" bill McCain used against him by pointing out that the law was already on the books.

Obama nailed the VP question. McCain, not so much.

My main issue at this point is that besides being stuck in the past, vague, parrotive and relatively shallow in his answers to key questions, and obsessed over non issues, John McCain just comes across as rude. Sneering, laughing at inappropriate times Now yes, Barack Obama cracked a few smiles, but McCain was just acting like an ******* all night long. That will cost him. I think, in most respects, the debate was a draw, but McCain hurt himself last night, and Obama did not.

McCain's still stumbling over his words, getting visibly flustered...Obama's still a better debater. There's just no question about that.

And how come McCain can say "repudiated" but he can't pronounce far simpler words?

I can't wait for SNL. I hope they also do an SNL version of CNN's debate night coverage.

 

[The Guard]

Obama once again refuses to acknowledge the Ayers situation in its fullest. He neglected that the meeting which launched his campaign was at Ayers' house

He didn't neglect it at all. He definitively said "Those aren't the facts". And then, McCain was stupid enough not to push the issue. He essentially let Obama deny it and didn't press the attack at all.

One or two of these incidents can be overlooked but every other week it's some new thing about how Obama made a bad decision or association.

New? Try "old". Every other week it's some "old" association that McCain's campaign and Republicans have been using for months now that keeps getting brought back up. Ayers and Acorn. And that's about it, as far as I know.

Sort of strange coming from a guy who puts "Country First."

He never did say USA first, though. That's not a knock on him. Just saying.

Now on McCain's side, its an issue of saying, "I may have supported some of my presidents policies, but I am not the President." He said, I am not President Bush. I thought it was a good reply on McCains part, but unfortunately, the hatred for Bush on most peoples minds, will lead them away from Obama.

Problem is, Obama then pointed out why he made the comparisons to Bush. It was a valid argument. McCain didn't have an answer for it. And how could he? He has allied himself with his party on some major issues.

We don't need MORE expenses right now. We need LESS. We don't need MORE government involvement and 'social engineering' - we need LESS. The writing is on the wall. When this all goes down, Obama will be powerless to do anything about it, which is why it's KEY to avoid it. But his policies of tax, tax, tax and spend, spend, spend will NOT allow us to avoid it.

I'm curious. He's been pretty clear that he wants a net cut to spending overall. What makes you think he's dumb enough not to realize he won't be able to do everything he'd like to? He's said as much.

He is tacitly approving these kinds of comments by not adamantly and completely denouncing them. Very dangerous ground.

This is just an absurd statement. Simply because one doesn't denounce someone publicly (which I believe his administration DID), they are approving the comment? That's grade school thinking. Someone calls someone a name, so I have to defend that person? It's not Obama's job to defend McCain from absurd statements.

I agree with you 100% that Barack Obama has a much better Presidential image ... but I suspect that has more to do with his youth, his good looks, and his attorney like qualities when he communicates. He's definitely a good talker, but I don't give him a lot of credit on the 'communicator' scale. He, being an attorney, is a also a word-smith. He's able to craft well-rehearsed responses and look incredibly confident.

God forbid we have that in a President.

Still, he doesn't answer the important questions completely. When quizzed about Ayers, he maneuvered around giving any real answer by repeating that Ayers was never a part of his campaign and would have no effect on his Presidency.

Isn't that relevant to the issue at hand? Obama essentially said "Stop confusing non issues with issues". He made his point, and it made sense. It's not Obama's job to give McCain more fuel for the fire. It's McCains. And you'll notice, McCain didn't seem to dig any deeper.

And I'm thinking, so what? We're not concerned about you contacting Ayers while you're President. Do you really think the American people would stand for that? We're concerned about what effect your contact with him has had on you through the years.

He also addressed that pretty openly. It seemed to amount to "We served on a board together". Again, McCain didn't press the issue.

You know, maybe if Obama would come out and say something like, "Hey, I believe in positive change. That belief manifests itself in my personal and professional life. I believe that no matter someone's history, there's always a good and decent side to that person that maybe I can help to draw out. I don't agree with what Ayers did back then, but I don't have to in order to understand that maybe I can have a positive effect on this guy. What's the alternative? That we lock him up for good, despite that our justice system was unable to convict him? The guy's a college professor. He's harmless.

I tend to think Obama pretty much thinks most people are intelligent to figure out that he didn't pal around with terrorists, and that Ayers is no longer a terrorist.

Obama did not address why he was sitting in Ayers' living room and kicking off his political career.

He shouldn't need to. What bearing does it have on anything?

Obama did not explain the 50 million he spent on behalf of Ayers to radicalize Chicago's schools.

Radicalize them how? Again. He shouldn't need to. What bearing does it have on anything?

Obama did not explain why he exercised such poor judgment in dealing with this guy in the first place, and especially AFTER Ayers stated that he did not regret doing what he did and he wished he did more.

Careful. If Obama's not allowed to associate with someone of less than stellar character...no one is. That would point the finger at a LOT of people, politicians and otherwise.

Again. He shouldn't need to. What bearing does it have on anything?

All Obama did was repeat everything he's already said in the past. All he did was state that Ayers has no involvement in his campaign. (I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise...)

He shouldn't need to go beyond that. All he needs to do is say that, and McCain's campaign clearly has nothing to stand on. What bearing does this "Ayers" nonsense have on anything?

Then what about ACORN. What about Obama's campaign payoff of 800k to them?

Elaborate.

What about his payment from Fannie Mae?

Elaborate.

What about his association to people like Tony Resko, a slumlord he bought land from who's being investigated for extortion, money laundering, and fraud?

Oh no...someone in this country being investigated for breaking the law?

What about Che Guevara's flag flying in Obama's HQ office?

?

What about Sam Graham-Felsen, a self-admitted Communist? What about Rashid Khalidi, a former PLO operative opposed to Israel?

Elaborate. Elaborate. Elaborate.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

McCain somehow shoots himself in the foot during debates and it's all in the facial expressions and body language. These debates are just as much about how you look as what you say. They show temperament and that's where McCain failed in every single debate. For all the experience he has he never once looked (or acted) presidential or someone that could be a true leader. These debates have glaringly shown McCain's character flaws. He's fidgety, has no patience, and seems to lack composure under pressure. To me he comes off as a spoiled brat on the verge of a temper tantrum at times.

 

[Paradoxium]

I think she just hates John.

jag

LOL like Obama or that Biden clown will make a difference. It doesn't matter how smooth either are, or what they say... weak economy = less money = less benefits. Period.

Both candidates will tank it, but Obama will do it faster with his idiotic economic stimulus package, repeating Hoover all over again. McCain - he just doesn't know what the hell he is doing. He is a poor man's Democrat.

Women think they have it bad right?

Hahahah they haven't seen anything yet. t:

With a piss poor economy and a massive government deficit, wait till they start seeing employers not even hire young women anymore because they worry about maternal leave. This is a case of brutal pragmatism and cold efficiency, not sexism. Basically they end up hiring really old women beyond their fertility age to meet government numbers. This phenomenon is already happening in the UK. And what is the government going to do? Force them hire women who will have children? You end up tanking these already fragile companies and now everyone will have the equality of being unemployed.

My point is, if you are worried about women, start worrying about the economy first.

Besides if you control statistics for women who don't have children, you control the hours at work (ones who are equalized to men), the pay between such a women to men are equal. In some cases women even make significantly more (particularly in New York). I recall there was a huge NY Times article on this, it was something to the effect 18% higher than men. As for the overall picture, men do take on the most dangerous jobs, that's one of the other reasons why they get paid more; the danger premium. It's no coincidence men die 90% of the time on the job, and have a shorter lifespan by 5-10 years compared to women. Unless women think it's a conspiracy to oppress women from getting killed equally on the job

 

[souvlaki]

Joe not a licensed plumber, McCain's enthusiasm not diminished

October 16, 2008
Categories: McCain

The Toledo Blade is reporting that Joe the Plumber is actually not licensed. But that, combined with his apparent tax lien, isn't lessening McCain's ardor.

He said in an interview with Fox's Carl Cameron today that he hoped to hook up with the instantly famous Ohioan soon.

“I'm probably going to call him this morning," McCain said. "I thought he would probably be up late. I heard that his — that his phone lines were pretty well flooded. But I think we're going to be spending some time together.”

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonat...Cains_enthusiasm_not_diminished.html#comments

 

[souvlaki]

Apparently Joe hasn't paid his back taxes either. Poor Joe the Plumber.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aWDHvDjnDnTs&refer=home

 

[Paradoxium]

What are you going to do? Expose his whole god damn private life. Would you want the media to expose every single aspect of your life, especially its frailties? Some of you guys have no class at all.

 

[The Guard]

The issues in dispute are matters of public record, are they not? Regardless, it's classic. No one forced Joe to go on national television, or to give interviews, etc.

 

[Paradoxium]

I didn't know he went on national television to give interviews. That's a different story. Still I think it is petty.

 

[DorkyFresh]

What are you going to do? Expose his whole god damn private life. Would you want the media to expose every single aspect of your life, especially its frailties? Some of you guys have no class at all.

you act as if souvlaki hired a detective. all he did was post links to these things. besides, having class on SHH is kinda like having manners in a bar.

I didn't know he went on national television to give interviews.

i've seen him in 3 seperate interviews since the debate.

 

[Paradoxium]

It's directed more so to the media and not souvlaki, and yea it is still petty. You try putting yourself in those shoes.