The Presidential Debates

[Darthphere]

This thread has everything, Lazur wanting to debate the issues, a religious nut job, and Morg actually doing his job. What the ****?!!

 

[Paradoxium]

This thread has everything, Lazur wanting to debate the issues, a religious nut job, and Morg actually doing his job. What the ****?!!

All we need is some announcement of Judd Winnick and Rob Liefield doing a post-OMD comic

 

[ManofmyWord]

Jesus, I'm watching a McCain rally right now and he can bearly talk over "Nobama" and "Traitor!"

 

[Superman]

I don't support McCain on this ....entirely..
Paling around is a rough statement.

But Obama did have friendly relations with Ayers...
This is a concern to alot a people...its not a lie...
Its not a complete truth...

its a grey area..

Watch the debate again. The issue was Palin saying that Obama was "Paling around with terrorists". That's when McCain started defending the crowds and then, After saying that Obama was putting down those people and that there have been people at Obama's rallies saying bad things , McCain said that he's repudiated everyone who said anything out of line whether they've been part of his campaign or not.

It's right here at the 3:00 mark in this video....

[YT]zk3nkaGXcFw[/YT]

He lied, He has not repudiated Palin and Palin is definitely a part of his campaign. Obama does not "Pal around with terrorists". McCain knows this but he let his running mate say it anyway. That's not a "gray area" it's a fact and it's definitely not repudiating in my book.

 

[The Senator]

Biased poll and if your calling 49% not a lot that's silly

Actually, only 23% of respondents said that it mattered a great deal:

Obama's connection to William Ayers matters to you...

Great Deal 23
Somewhat 14
Not Much 11
Not At All 51

Additionally, it is biased because you do not agree with the result of the poll. Show me a poll where the majority of Americans say they care about the Ayers issue and I'll let you win this one. If you don't have one, then stop debating while we are ahead

 

[The Senator]

Ayers was not debunked. I don't mind the boards they sat on but launching his senate campaign from his house is cozy to me.

The Acorn thing what you say is somewhat true but he gave them a whole heap of money which means hes involved and supports them.

Ayers and Acorn are just the most recent in a long string of them. But there will be more we still have a few days.

You really are ignorant of this issue.

Ayers DID NOT launch Obama's state Senate campaign. That party at Ayers's house took place before Obama launched his campaign for the state senate, but the party was for ANOTHER politician who was running for Congress. Ayers did NOT introduce Obama to prominent party leaders or recommend him as a Senate candidate. Besides, Obama has BETTER connections at the time which helped him jumpstart his political career-- including Rep. Bobby Rush and Jesse Jackson, Jr., both of whom were POWERFUL in the Chicago community and had much more power than Ayers could ever dream of.

The ONLY reason why the McCain campaign is using this is because they want to imply that Obama has been influenced by terrorists. That is NOT the case, Ayers wrote a book CONDEMNING terrorism years ago and has since reformed. Not only that, but Ayers DID NOT launch Obama's career.

Stop spewing the same ridiculous talking points, and start debating REAL, LEGITIMATE issues. Otherwise we can talk about McCain's presidential transition leader being a former lobbyist with connections to Saddam Hussein.

 

[Mikelus]

I have no words for this nonsense. The majority of everyone here wants to discuss the issues. It is posters like you who come in here and throw insults and stereotypes out as a means to bait people into an argument THAT IS A DISTRACTION FROM THE ISSUES.

There's one simple solution, ignore the guy, he's not going to talk to himself!

 

[The Senator]

I don't support McCain on this ....entirely..
Paling around is a rough statement.

But Obama did have friendly relations with Ayers...
This is a concern to alot a people...its not a lie...
Its not a complete truth...

its a grey area..

And McCain had a friendly relationship with Larry Craig in the Senate.

I guess that means John McCain has solicited sex in airport bathrooms? Or that he may be influenced to do the same when he becomes president?

 

[Superman]

And McCain had a friendly relationship with Larry Craig in the Senate.

I guess that means John McCain has solicited sex in airport bathrooms? Or that he may be influenced to do the same when he becomes president?

And lets not forget McCain's VERY friendly relationship with Bush. By their own reasoning that makes McCain responsible for what Bush has done.

 

[Marx]

There's one simple solution, ignore the guy, he's not going to talk to himself!

For the most part, I do ignore him. Except for on the off chance that I think maybe this time will be different and try to debate with him. I've grown tired of threads being hijacked for the next five pages because of pointless nonsense stirred up by this certain poster. All I was doing, in this case, was try to keep everyone on topic. I left, only to come back into the thread to find that it had been hijacked. Yet again.

So...I've said what I had to say on the matter, and now I'm done.

Back to regular programming!

 

[danoyse]

And lets not forget McCain's VERY friendly relationship with Bush. By their own reasoning that makes McCain responsible for what Bush has done.

Wasn't Bush attending McCain's birthday party as Hurricane Katrina was destroying the Gulf Coast?

Seriously, everyone I talked to today about the debate couldn't care less about Ayers. He's really a non-issue and Obama was very upfront in the debate as to who he was and what the relationship was.

 

[lazur]

I don't know why I'm even bothering to reason with you. You have proven time and again that you believe your line of thinking is the ONLY correct way of thinking. I'm still trying to figure out why you're allowed to post here...but here it goes...

I understand. You don't want people posting who oppose your views. Gotcha.

You, yet again, are twisting facts and leaving out things. I specifically said that John McCain stopped a woman who was calling Obama an arab. This was AT THE RALLY YOU JUST USED AS A DEFENSE. He was booed by people. This came about one week after all of the hatred at these rallies began. This was THE ONLY time that he has stopped someone or corrected someone perpetrating these ignorant statements.

How do you know? Were you in attendance at every rally? Was every rally McCain held covered by CNN?

People at the McCain-Palin rallies have called Obama a 'traitor' and a 'terrorist'. They have also shouted 'treason' and 'kill him'. NEITHER JOHN MCCAIN NOR SARAH PALIN HAVE STOPPED THESE ATTACKS. THEY HAVE NOT SAID 'NOW WAIT A MINUTE, THAT'S NOT TRUE.' INSTEAD, THEY LAUGH THEIR WAY THROUGH THESE COMMENTS LIKE THEY ARE SOMEHOW AMUSING.

Again, how do you know? McCain just stated last night his position, just as Obama stated his position on Ayers. Why is it okay for one candidate to state during a debate that he doesn't agree with what Ayers did or said, but it's not okay for another one to do the same thing?

As I have said, I give credit to John McCain for correcting the woman who called Obama an arab. But that, in no way, wipes the slate clean from all of the other comments that he is blatantly ignored.

Ignored or chose not to respond to? And again, have you been at every one of McCain's rallies? Have you seen every one of them covered on TV? No, you haven't, so you have no idea what has or has not been said by McCain at *all* of his rallies. Your basing your opinion on what the media reports, and nothing more.

What I have said, along with many others, is that we have never stated that John McCain was behind all of this. WHAT WE HAVE SAID is that he and Sarah Palin are contributing to it and taking advantage of it. You do not ask a veiled question like 'Who is the real Barack Obama' and say that he 'pals around with terrorists' without knowing what kind of response it would bring out. He is capitalizing, and catering to, the very ignorance of this country. And in my view, that it not only unforgivable, but despicable.

I disagree that they're 'contributing' to it. One the one hand, you say that McCain wasn't behind it, but on the other you're accusing him of 'contributing' to it.

As to 'ignorance of this country,' I can't believe you'd use two people who shouted insults as a measurement of 'ignorance' in this country. Generalize much, do we?

But hey, why didn't Obama tell the people with the t-shirts on to turn them around? I guess that's acceptable, though, right?

I have no words for this nonsense. The majority of everyone here wants to discuss the issues. It is posters like you who come in here and throw insults and stereotypes out as a means to bait people into an argument THAT IS A DISTRACTION FROM THE ISSUES.

Nonsense? Hey, I'm just one of the 'ignorant' since I oppose Obama. There's not much I can say to THAT nonsense.

 

[Gilpesh]

Nonsense? Hey, I'm just one of the 'ignorant' since I oppose Obama. There's not much I can say to THAT nonsense.

Would you just f**king stop already? Really.

 

[danoyse]

Nonsense? Hey, I'm just one of the 'ignorant' since I oppose Obama. There's not much I can say to THAT nonsense.

No one here has said that you are ignorant because you oppose Obama, lazur. No one.

 

[lazur]

Wasn't Bush attending McCain's birthday party as Hurricane Katrina was destroying the Gulf Coast?

Seriously, everyone I talked to today about the debate couldn't care less about Ayers. He's really a non-issue and Obama was very upfront in the debate as to who he was and what the relationship was.

I didn't observe what you observed:

Bill Ayers is a professor of education in Chicago.

Forty years ago, when I was 8 years old, he engaged in despicable acts with a radical domestic group. I have roundly condemned those acts. Ten years ago he served and I served on a school reform board that was funded by one of Ronald Reagan's former ambassadors and close friends, Mr. Annenberg.

Other members on that board were the presidents of the University of Illinois, the president of Northwestern University, who happens to be a Republican, the president of The Chicago Tribune, a Republican- leaning newspaper.

Mr. Ayers is not involved in my campaign. He has never been involved in this campaign. And he will not advise me in the White House. So that's Mr. Ayers.

Obama did not address why he was sitting in Ayers' living room and kicking off his political career.

Obama did not explain the 50 million he spent on behalf of Ayers to radicalize Chicago's schools.

Obama did not explain why he exercised such poor judgment in dealing with this guy in the first place, and especially AFTER Ayers stated that he did not regret doing what he did and he wished he did more.

All Obama did was repeat everything he's already said in the past. All he did was state that Ayers has no involvement in his campaign. (I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise...)

So no, he was not 'upfront' in my opinion. He was masterful at dodging the core concerns that people have with this and he was dismissive of his association with this guy despite that it DOES INDEED concern half of the voters.

As to McCain and Bush, Bush is a sitting President. Since when was it a crime for a member of Congress to associate with the President of the United States?

 

[The Senator]

Seriously lazur, get it through your thick skull that people here do not consider you ignorant because you are opposed to Obama.

Again, posters like StorminNorman, Hippie Hunter, and SupermanBeyond-- who are fairly conservative-- can actually debate the issues without wildly pointing fingers because they have been consumed by blind partisan rage.

You, however, seem incapable of that trait. Accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being "in love" with Barack Obama and the Democratic Party, making outlandish statements such as Obama will destroy the U.S. military, and going as far as to justify the hatespeech being spewed at some of McCain's rallies by saying "anger is merited right now."

I mean, do you not see that? Do you not understand that it has NOTHING to do with your views, and EVERYTHING to do with the way you present yourself?

Blaming all the nation's problems on Democrats? That is baseless and highly partisan.
Saying phrases such as "your beloved Obama" or "your precious Democrats" to posters who disagree with you? That is baseless and downright insulting.
Interjecting Obama or Ayers into threads which have nothing to do with that topic? That is just childish.
Implying that I care more about gay marriage than the economy, when neither subjects were up for discussion? That's pointed and the stuff I'd expect out of eighth graders.

Seriously, change the way you present yourself, and maybe some of us here won't have anything against you. Hey, you're the one who wants to talk about the issues, maybe we should do that. But like I said, I don't think you are capable of doing so because it involves being somewhat cool and collected, which you have demonstrated that you're anything BUT these past few weeks.

Oh well, only three weeks left to put up with this sort of crap. Thankfully, you'll be moving out of the country if Obama wins, so hopefully we can all resume a normal, collected debate once the "country first" guy packs up and moves abroad because his candidate lost.

 

[Superman]

I didn't observe what you observed:



Obama did not address why he was sitting in Ayers' living room and kicking off his political career.

Obama did not explain the 50 million he spent on behalf of Ayers to radicalize Chicago's schools.

Obama did not explain why he exercised such poor judgment in dealing with this guy in the first place, and especially AFTER Ayers stated that he did not regret doing what he did and he wished he did more.

All Obama did was repeat everything he's already said in the past. All he did was state that Ayers has involvement in his campaign. (I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise...)

So no, he was not 'upfront' in my opinion. He was masterful at dodging the core concerns that people have with this and he was dismissive of his association with this guy despite that it DOES INDEED concern half of the voters.

As to McCain and Bush, Bush is a sitting President. Since when was it a crime for a member of Congress to associate with the President of the United States?

...and it goes on and on and on. :facepalm

 

[danoyse]

I didn't observe what you observed:



Obama did not address why he was sitting in Ayers' living room and kicking off his political career.

Obama did not explain the 50 million he spent on behalf of Ayers to radicalize Chicago's schools.

Obama did not explain why he exercised such poor judgment in dealing with this guy in the first place, and especially AFTER Ayers stated that he did not regret doing what he did and he wished he did more.

All Obama did was repeat everything he's already said in the past. All he did was deny that Ayers has involvement in his campaign.

So no, he did not 'upfront' in my opinion. He was masterful at dodging the core concerns that people have with this and he was dismissive of his association with this guy despite that it DOES INDEED concern half of the voters.

As to McCain and Bush, Bush is a sitting President. Since when was it a crime for a member of Congress to associate with the President of the United States?

I didn't need him to tell me. I've read about Bill Ayers. I know who he is. He's not Osama bin Laden. Hell, the man received a Citizen of the Year Award from the city of Chicago in 1997 and has been a distinguished professor at the University of Illinois. That's a dangerous terrorist?

Why aren't we questioning everyone who's worked with or been a student of his about their shady associations?

He did terrible things back in the 1960s. However, when he did them Obama was a third grader. I doubt they conspired at the time.

I didn't need to hear about Bill Ayers at the debate at all. I've read about the subject and I really think it's a non-issue once I learned the facts. Everyone I've spoken to has said the same.

As far as Bush and McCain...sure they can get together whenever they want. But during a crisis when an American city is drowning and the emergency response is hopeless hardly seems the time for a birthday party, don't you think? So much for country first.

 

[Gilpesh]

Obama did not address why he was sitting in Ayers' living room and kicking off his political career.

Because McCain was foaming at the mouth and interrupting him and not letting him get to it... and it is also because he didn't sit in Ayers' living room to kick off his political career...

Obama did not explain the 50 million he spent on behalf of Ayers to radicalize Chicago's schools.

:facepalm

Yes... radical board... that Obama explained wasn't radical...

Obama did not explain why he exercised such poor judgment in dealing with this guy in the first place, and especially AFTER Ayers stated that he did not regret doing what he did and he wished he did more.

Did Ayers state that to Obama's face? "Hey Barrack! I'M A TERRORIST THAT BLEW S**T UP! I AIN'T SORRY!"

Would you quit your good job if you found out that someone else that works there did something bad in his life?

All Obama did was repeat everything he's already said in the past. All he did was state that Ayers has no involvement in his campaign. (I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise...)

:facepalm

Yes.... you bring up guilt by association... then say no one suggested that Ayers had anything to do with Obama's campaign...

 

[Marx]

I value differing opinions when they intelligent and well-informed. I have nothing but the utmost respect and regard for StorminNorman, Hippie Hunter, and SupermanBeyond. I agreed to run with Norm on the REPUBLICAN TICKET OF THE HYPE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION because of my enormous respect for what he represents. And anyone who has paid attention since my arrival here knows that I have been a very harsh critic of Barack Obama and John McCain over the course of this election. I even praised the nomination of John McCain because I saw it as a much needed in the right direction for the GOP. (My opinion of him, of course, has changed because of his deplorable actions.)

 

[Bathead]

Seems to me Obama et al has answered ALL those questions. You just don't want to believe it. In that case, your intractability and paranoia will brook no debate, anything you say about the subject contributes nothing to the conversation.

 

[lazur]

Seriously lazur, get it through your thick skull that people here do not consider you ignorant because you are opposed to Obama.

Again, posters like StorminNorman, Hippie Hunter, and SupermanBeyond-- who are fairly conservative-- can actually debate the issues without wildly pointing fingers because they have been consumed by blind partisan rage.

You, however, seem incapable of that trait. Accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being "in love" with Barack Obama and the Democratic Party, making outlandish statements such as Obama will destroy the U.S. military, and going as far as to justify the hatespeech being spewed at some of McCain's rallies by saying "anger is merited right now."

I mean, do you not see that? Do you not understand that it has NOTHING to do with your views, and EVERYTHING to do with the way you present yourself?

Blaming all the nation's problems on Democrats? That is baseless and highly partisan.
Saying phrases such as "your beloved Obama" or "your precious Democrats" to posters who disagree with you? That is baseless and downright insulting.
Interjecting Obama or Ayers into threads which have nothing to do with that topic? That is just childish.
Implying that I care more about gay marriage than the economy, when neither subjects were up for discussion? That's pointed and the stuff I'd expect out of eighth graders.

Seriously, change the way you present yourself, and maybe some of us here won't have anything against you. Hey, you're the one who wants to talk about the issues, maybe we should do that. But like I said, I don't think you are capable of doing so because it involves being somewhat cool and collected, which you have demonstrated that you're anything BUT these past few weeks.

Oh well, only three weeks left to put up with this sort of crap. Thankfully, you'll be moving out of the country if Obama wins, so hopefully we can all resume a normal, collected debate once the "country first" guy packs up and moves abroad because his candidate lost.

There's nothing wrong with my presentation. I have made PLENTY of efforts in the past to have a pleasant and intelligent discourse on this board only to be greeted by 'you're partisan, just stop' or 'way to be a centrist, Lazur' even when nothing I've said was partisan, but was instead simply questioning Obama's motives, qualifications and experience, as well as his policy points.

I will not apologize for questioning the motives of a man who has a epic-sized history of associating with bad people - people who HATE this country. You state that Ayers isn't a big deal and that no one cares about Ayers. Fine. Then what about ACORN. What about Obama's campaign payoff of 800k to them? What about his payment from Fannie Mae? What about his association to people like Tony Resko, a slumlord he bought land from who's being investigated for extortion, money laundering, and fraud? What about Che Guevara's flag flying in Obama's HQ office? What about Sam Graham-Felsen, a self-admitted Communist? What about Rashid Khalidi, a former PLO operative opposed to Israel?

The list goes on and on and on. Sure, if you take any ONE of these associations by themselves, each can be fairly benign. But I won't apologize for my concern of the PATTERN of anti-American associations Obama has been a significant part of for the last half of his life.

 

[lazur]

Because McCain was foaming at the mouth and interrupting him and not letting him get to it... and it is also because he didn't sit in Ayers' living room to kick off his political career...

Actually, it was McCain's turn to speak when Obama interrupted McCain to say 'that's not true.'

But please do reveal how YOU know that it's not true, other than Obama saying so, since, well, Obama's been soooo honest with the American people so far.

i:facepalm

Yes... radical board... that Obama explained wasn't radical...



Did Ayers state that to Obama's face? "Hey Barrack! I'M A TERRORIST THAT BLEW S**T UP! I AIN'T SORRY!"

Would you quit your good job if you found out that someone else that works there did something bad in his life?

No, I wouldn't quit, but I certainly wouldn't take the guy's money and spend it for one of his radical agendas...

:facepalm

Yes.... you bring up guilt by association... then say no one suggested that Ayers had anything to do with Obama's campaign...

No, it's not 'guilt by association.' I don't think Obama is a terrorist. But I do think that a man CAN and SHOULD be measured by the company he keeps.

 

[Gilpesh]

Actually, it was McCain's turn to speak when Obama interrupted McCain to say 'that's not true.'

Shame... Obama interrupting McCain to call out a lie... He should have more respect and just interrupt McCain whenever he felt like it, aka the McCain plan of debating.

But please do reveal how YOU know that it's not true, other than Obama saying so, since, well, Obama's been soooo honest with the American people so far.

FACTCHECKING.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html

[SIZE=-0][SIZE=-0]Voters may differ in how they see Ayers, or how they see Obama’s interactions with him. We’re making no judgment calls on those matters. What we object to are the McCain-Palin campaign’s attempts to sway voters – in ads and on the stump – with false and misleading statements about the relationship, which was never very close. Obama never “lied” about this, just as he never bragged about it. The foundation they both worked with was hardly “radical.” And Ayers is more than a former "terrorist," he’s also a well-known figure in the field of education.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

No, I wouldn't quit, but I certainly wouldn't take the guy's money and spend it for one of his radical agendas...

You wouldn't quit? That's the company you keep and we'll judge you by it... how's it feel?

No, it's not 'guilt by association.' I don't think Obama is a terrorist. But I do think that a man CAN and SHOULD be measured by the company he keeps.

Then you should be afraid that McCain is going to cause a depression also... PHIL GRAMM and KEATING.




Oh and sidenote... stop saying that Obama's word can't be trusted when you take Palin and McCain's word on everything... just stop.

 

[The Senator]

Well lazur, you sort of damned yourself by going on partisan rants and generalizing every single one of us as blind partisans. And your consistent blaming of Democrats for all the problems in the world have proven that you are not the centrist you once claimed to be. You are no worse than the posters who have butted heads with you.

So, while I'm sorry you feel as though we have been too harsh in our analysis of your posts, you really have had it coming.

Also, I'd like to add that you don't seem to mind the confederate flag flying in McCain's South Carolina office. Double standard?