The "realism" thread

[Rock Sexton]

In the Thor trailer, they go into this thing about how magic is science in Asgard, with the intent of "rationalizing" the Norse gods. It kinda bugs me because I don't think the rationalization is necessary. Just say that Thor is a god from Asgard; we don't need to have a "logical" explanation for it, it just is. It's the real world suddenly confronted with something unnatural, that's the story. It can be as simple as that.

Ya, I thought that speech by Hemsworth is just futile. I actually cringe from the at scene every time I watch the trailer.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

I never took that quote as trying to "rationalize" Thor.

It's a riff on Arthur C. Clarke - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

It's uniquely appropriate for a property like Thor, particularly in the larger context of the Marvel film universe. It's where science and magic meet. Is there such a big difference between the two? It's just fun food for thought.

 

[BlackLantern]

its right up there with people *****ing because Heimdall is black

 

[some guy]

I never took that quote as trying to "rationalize" Thor.

It's a riff on Arthur C. Clarke - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

It's uniquely appropriate for a property like Thor, particularly in the larger context of the Marvel film universe. It's where science and magic meet. Is there such a big difference between the two? It's just fun food for thought.

That is an interesting idea, but at the very least, I don't think that line should have come from Thor himself. It should have come from the mortals trying to figure out what he is.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

That is an interesting idea, but at the very least, I don't think that line should have come from Thor himself. It should have come from the mortals trying to figure out what he is.

Maybe it'll be more palatable in its proper context.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Maybe they should have done Dr Strange to preface it.....

Or had Doom using sorcery as well as science when he fought the FF.

I read somewhere that David Goyer (of Blade/TDK fame) wrote a treatment for Dr. Strange & when he presented it to a producer, the response was "Nice story, but what's with all the magic?"

 

[Chris Wallace]

Another argument I find funny is that these movies aren't being made for us-the comic fans, but rather for the GA, so why cater to the smaller audience? These movies are most assuredly being made BECAUSE OF us, as we are the ones who made and keep the characters popular. Can you see anyone in their right mind pumping millions-nay, hundreds of millions of dollars into a movie based on a property that noone showed any interest in?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

It's not a funny argument, and the reason is rather simple. A movie most of the time is never made only for the fans. Rule 1 of selling a film: It has to have a wide appeal. Films with very wide appeal are the films studios are willing to put money into. Making a movie that's too "Comic book" like runs the risk of being niche. It happened to Kick-ass. It happened to Scott Pilgrim, and in a way, it happened to Daredevil and Ghost Rider.

I'm not saying it's right, but I'm giving you the answers you want. Film is a business, and studio executives don't want niche, and some don't even care about it being close to the source material or not. They want to find a way to sell this movie to as wide an audience as possible. But like we've seen, their decisions don't always pan out.

 

[roach]

Films with very wide appeal are the films studios are willing to put money into. Making a movie that's too "Comic book" like runs the risk of being niche. It happened to Kick-ass. It happened to Scott Pilgrim, and in a way, it happened to Daredevil and Ghost Rider.

I don think it's being too Comic book as being an issue. I look at Spider-man as being a comic-book-y feel. The problem with Kick ass and Scott Pilgrim was either the properties werent well known or there wasnt a draw actor in the lead role.
Michael Cera is not a draw actor and plays the same guy in all his movies...the loveable loser trying to get the girl. People saw him in Scott Pilgrim and wrote it off as same old same old.
Aaron Johnson is not a draw actor. In fact no one in the movie is a draw. And came out the same weekend as How to Train Your Dragon. Regardless of how you feel about the film family films usually kill at the movies...ask Rio which I believe took the weekend two weekends in a row.

Daredevil failed from a audience weariness with Ben and Jen. We got tired of hearing about them and when this movie came out people stayed away.

Ghost Rider was just a very stupid story

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Spider-man worked for what it was. He was never too dark, and was always family friendly. For another example, X-men is tough because X-men is a (for lack of a better term) deeper story, with more or less serious themes than Spider-man, which is why they went with the black leather over the comic book costumes and it worked.

But I'll say this. I think more and more studios are starting to get more intimate with the source material for films, with X-men: First Class (in terms of feel, not story), and Green Lantern along with the Marvel Studios films. Say what you want about the costumes, but I'd say they're being pretty faithful to source material.

 

[Franklin Richards]

its right up there with people *****ing because Heimdall is black

No its not.


Making Heimdall black is just white guilt at it's finest. You want better black and female characters then write 'em yourself.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

No its not.


Making Heimdall black is just white guilt at it's finest. You want better black and female characters then write 'em yourself.

Not as much as your comment as just the fact that I really don't wanna hear a race debate.

 

[roach]

Spider-man worked for what it was. He was never too dark, and was always family friendly. For another example, X-men is tough because X-men is a (for lack of a better term) deeper story, with more or less serious themes than Spider-man, which is why they went with the black leather over the comic book costumes and it worked.

But I'll say this. I think more and more studios are starting to get more intimate with the source material for films, with X-men: First Class (in terms of feel, not story), and Green Lantern along with the Marvel Studios films. Say what you want about the costumes, but I'd say they're being pretty faithful to source material.

X-men might be tough because its always been about racism and being accepted. The black leather suits never bothered me because the X-men dont have iconic looks. They have changed costumes for years evidenced by the covers Marvel has coming out. Which Wolverine costume do you use? Yellow and blue, brown and tan, black madripoor outfit, original X-men yellow and blues.....then if you pick one then you have to figure out did Wolverine wear this costume while Storm wore this one.
Compare that to someone like Spider-man who had possibly three actual costume changes since before the movie came out or Superman who only had two...and now we are dealing with iconic looks for the characters.
The other thing to take into consideration is does it make sense on the movie. For Green Lantern it makes sense that the ring clothes Hal in an alien looking suit rather than the cloth one we are used to.

 

[roach]

No its not.


Making Heimdall black is just white guilt at it's finest. You want better black and female characters then write 'em yourself.

yet you have no issue with an Aussie playing a Norse God

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

X-men might be tough because its always been about racism and being accepted. The black leather suits never bothered me because the X-men dont have iconic looks. They have changed costumes for years evidenced by the covers Marvel has coming out. Which Wolverine costume do you use? Yellow and blue, brown and tan, black madripoor outfit, original X-men yellow and blues.....then if you pick one then you have to figure out did Wolverine wear this costume while Storm wore this one.
Compare that to someone like Spider-man who had possibly three actual costume changes since before the movie came out or Superman who only had two...and now we are dealing with iconic looks for the characters.
The other thing to take into consideration is does it make sense on the movie. For Green Lantern it makes sense that the ring clothes Hal in an alien looking suit rather than the cloth one we are used to.

Agreed.

 

[Franklin Richards]

yet you have no issue with an Aussie playing a Norse God

How do you know? I'd rather it be a Norwegian. But if you can pass then that's sorta acceptable. Would Elba be interested in wearing White Face?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Woah, look at the time, I gotta go to that.... thing I have to do.

 

[roach]

or a canadian playing a Ice Giant
or an Irish actor playing an asguardian
or an american playing Frigga
or the japanese actor playing Hogun

did anyone pitch a fit when Cleopatra was played by Elizabeth Taylor or Ben Kingsley playing Ghandi??

 

[roach]

How do you know? I'd rather it be a Norwegian. But if you can pass then that's sorta acceptable. Would Elba be interested in wearing White Face?

yeah on this note I will be leaving the discussion...sorry but I have no desire to go down that road with you

 

[Franklin Richards]

yeah on this note I will be leaving the discussion...sorry but I have no desire to go down that road with you

Don't let the door hit ya in the ass.

 

[roach]

He who argues with a fool becomes one

 

[Franklin Richards]

I'm a fool?



Changing a minor character's race is insulting.


If it doesn't matter then why is Thor white?
If it doesn't matter then why is Sif a woman?

 

[JAK®]

or a canadian playing a Ice Giant
or an Irish actor playing an asguardian
or an american playing Frigga
or the japanese actor playing Hogun

did anyone pitch a fit when Cleopatra was played by Elizabeth Taylor or Ben Kingsley playing Ghandi??

Ben Kingsley is Indian.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Ben Kingsley is Indian.

Yes, Krishna Pandit Bhanji is Indian.

 

[some guy]

I'm a fool?



Changing a minor character's race is insulting.


If it doesn't matter then why is Thor white?
If it doesn't matter then why is Sif a woman?

Woman is not a race.