The Return of Bruce Wayne hits in April

[TheCorpulent1]

It's a coincidence. I doubt Morrison's got spies in Brubaker's office or whatever.

 

[lixdexia]

It's a coincidence. I doubt Morrison's got spies in Brubaker's office or whatever.

two, maybe three plot points is a coincidence, but everything except sharron killing steve has been adapted in a bat book. that's batman team being lazy and unimaginative.

also, under the hood has been told a total of 4 times in five years...that's a bit ridiculous.

i'm done bm and g'ing now.

 

[Art_of_Crime]

so glad he is coming back.

 

[Drz]

Well we knew Batman wasn't dead but trapped before we found out about Steve being trapped instead of dead for 2 years... Whos stealing who?! It's just a bloody coincidence really. Cap's going thru his PERSONAL history and some alternative nazi universe, where Morrison is making a big tribute to the crazy Silver Age stories and different hero-genres via Batman.

 

[lixdexia]

Well we knew Batman wasn't dead but trapped before we found out about Steve being trapped instead of dead for 2 years... Whos stealing who?! It's just a bloody coincidence really. Cap's going thru his PERSONAL history and some alternative nazi universe, where Morrison is making a big tribute to the crazy Silver Age stories and different hero-genres via Batman.

REALLY!?! i'm fairly (read into that entirely) certain that doom gave the red skull the time gun just a bit before finial crisis even started...and if you couldn't figure out that doom = time travel then...well wow. that the theme of the stories is different i'll grant you, but the plot points are far too similar to brush off as coincidence. and sure everyone rips off everyone to a degree, but this has been a dirrect, continous, and relatively instant rip off for years now.

 

[Drz]

REALLY!?! i'm fairly (read into that entirely) certain that doom gave the red skull the time gun just a bit before finial crisis even started...and if you couldn't figure out that doom = time travel then...well wow.

And where was it stated it was a time travel gun? Believe me it was shown Captain America was dead for 2 years instead of "time trapped" while Bruce's fate was instantly revealed. So really, who ripped off who? It's just a coincidence truly.

 

[lixdexia]

And where was it stated it was a time travel gun? Believe me it was shown Captain America was dead for 2 years instead of "time trapped" while Bruce's fate was instantly revealed. So really, who ripped off who? It's just a coincidence truly.

it wasn't dirrectly stated, just as it wasn't dirrectly stated in final crisis the effect of darkseid's omega beams. it was left for the reader to infer and discover for themself. and that bruce's ultimate fate here was so instantly and uncerimoniously revealed here isn't a selling point for me, as unlike the cap story where i'm genuinely involved and intrested in the story, here i'm just bideing time with the books between bruce's death and return. and again, 2-3 similaritaies i'll give you, but the number of paralell plot points over the past 5 years is too staggering to chalk up to coincidnece.

i'm not telling you not to like this batman story or that you should like bru's cap more (but really...you should. it's fantastic) i'm just pointing out that the morrison and the rest of the bat-book team have clearly been looking at the cap book and stealing ideas.

 

[Drz]

it wasn't dirrectly stated, just as it wasn't dirrectly stated in final crisis the effect of darkseid's omega beams. it was left for the reader to infer and discover for themself.

But the Omega saction and beam have been established long time to have all sorts of intriquing aspects. When Captain America was shot, it was a clear shot. It was a bullet that killed him. Then 2 years after *bam* it turns out to be a MAGICAL bullet all the sudden. Thats cheap shock value right there. ;(

 

[Sawyer]

But the Omega saction and beam have been established long time to have all sorts of intriquing aspects. When Captain America was shot, it was a clear shot. It was a bullet that killed him. Then 2 years after *bam* it turns out to be a MAGICAL bullet all the sudden. Thats cheap shock value right there. ;(

This. IMO this kind of thing goes much better with what Morrison's been doing on Batman than it does with what Brubaker's done with Cap.

 

[lixdexia]

But the Omega saction and beam have been established long time to have all sorts of intriquing aspects. When Captain America was shot, it was a clear shot. It was a bullet that killed him. Then 2 years after *bam* it turns out to be a MAGICAL bullet all the sudden. Thats cheap shock value right there. ;(

...sleeper storyline before civl war, doom gives red skull a mysterious item after a story showcasing doom's prowess at time travel thus clearly establishing doom knows how to time travel. it's not all of a sudden, it's been there for 3-ish years.

 

[lixdexia]

This. IMO this kind of thing goes much better with what Morrison's been doing on Batman than it does with what Brubaker's done with Cap.

and that's fine. you're welcome to prefer whichever you do, all i'm stating is that this is one of a series of events to happen in a batman comic mere months after a similar event has happened in brubaker's cap run.

 

[BrianWilly]

Give me a break. You read that scene of Sharon cradling Steve's body as he bled his guts out onto the floor and immediately thought, "Well, obviously this has something to do with TIME TRAVEL!!"? Seriously?

it wasn't dirrectly stated, just as it wasn't dirrectly stated in final crisis the effect of darkseid's omega beams. it was left for the reader to infer and discover for themself.

Did you just somehow flat-out miss the last page of Final Crisis where it clearly showed, not "inferred," that Batman was in the past? And people have been saying right from the moment that Batman got hit by those beams that he would probably be living through multiple lives in multiple timelines, since that's what Grant Morrison established that the Omega Sanction would do in the first place. He established this way, way back during his Seven Soldiers miniseries, when it happened to Shilo Norman.

Gods, why am I even trying to explain this.

 

[lixdexia]

Give me a break. You read that scene of Sharon cradling Steve's body as he bled his guts out onto the floor and immediately thought, "Well, obviously this has something to do with TIME TRAVEL!!"? Seriously?

Did you just somehow flat-out miss the last page of Final Crisis where it clearly showed, not "inferred," that Batman was in the past? And people have been saying right from the moment that Batman got hit by those beams that he would probably be living through multiple lives in multiple timelines, since that's what Grant Morrison established that the Omega Sanction would do in the first place. He established this way, way back during his Seven Soldiers miniseries, when it happened to Shilo Norman.

Gods, why am I even trying to explain this.

1- yeah, it wasn't terribly hard to figure out...odds of steve staying perma-dead were incredibly low, the time travel part of the story had been almost mentioned in passing and then left alone which in a story of that nature generally means it's something that's going to be important later but the author wants you to forget about until the "a ha" moment...pretty simple if you pay attention

2, i was refering to the required inference for cap not for batman, because morrison isn't capable of writing a story where things flow logically so he HAS to spell everything out for the reader. personally i perfer a book that requires a little thought to pick everything up.

also, i skipped seven soldiers because (just in case you couldn't tell) i don't typically care for morrison's work.

 

[louiebling$]

Give me a break. You read that scene of Sharon cradling Steve's body as he bled his guts out onto the floor and immediately thought, "Well, obviously this has something to do with TIME TRAVEL!!"? Seriously?

Did you just somehow flat-out miss the last page of Final Crisis where it clearly showed, not "inferred," that Batman was in the past? And people have been saying right from the moment that Batman got hit by those beams that he would probably be living through multiple lives in multiple timelines, since that's what Grant Morrison established that the Omega Sanction would do in the first place. He established this way, way back during his Seven Soldiers miniseries, when it happened to Shilo Norman.

Gods, why am I even trying to explain this.

Damn I did not know all that and now I know

*yea I didn't read Final Crisis

 

[Tron Bonne]

because morrison isn't capable of writing a story where things flow logically so he HAS to spell everything out for the reader. personally i perfer a book that requires a little thought to pick everything up.

Now, wait up, wait up, wait up now. You're criticizing Morrison for spelling things out too much and you don't need to use your brain to read his material?

I don't, but isn't...that the exac..what?

 

[Dirt Like Me]

1- yeah, it wasn't terribly hard to figure out...odds of steve staying perma-dead were incredibly low, the time travel part of the story had been almost mentioned in passing and then left alone which in a story of that nature generally means it's something that's going to be important later but the author wants you to forget about until the "a ha" moment...pretty simple if you pay attention

2, i was refering to the required inference for cap not for batman, because morrison isn't capable of writing a story where things flow logically so he HAS to spell everything out for the reader. personally i perfer a book that requires a little thought to pick everything up.

also, i skipped seven soldiers because (just in case you couldn't tell) i don't typically care for morrison's work.

And, really, the fact is that neither idea is totaly original.

Brubaker is clearly riffing on Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five, in which a WWII soldier becomes unstuck in time. It's not even a rip-off because early on in Reborn, there's a caption that says "Listen. Steve Rogers has come unstuck in time", which plays on the opening of Slaughterhouse Five, Chapter One: "Listen. Billy Pilgrim has become unstuck in time." And I've read interviews where Bru has paid homage accordingly. (If you haven't read Slaughterhouse Five, read it. I don't care what kind of books you're into, it's amazing. Sad, beautiful, poignant and trippy--there's nothing else like it). If Reborn ends with "Po-to-weet", you can guess where it came from.

But anyway, I said earlier this week on this board; The Return of Bruce Wayne idea is much like the early/mid-90s TV show Quantum Leap, in which the main character leaps in and out of lives in which he has no real stake, but is driven by a sense to make things right. This seems to be what Morrison is thinking of in terms of RoBW. And I'm sure that Quantum Leap wasn't the first story to have this idea, either.

My main point is this: if it's entertaining and you don't feel ripped off for dropping your $3(DC, most of the time)/$4(Marvel) per month, who gives a rat's ass about the basis for the inspiration?

 

[yenaled]

Now, wait up, wait up, wait up now. You're criticizing Morrison for spelling things out too much and you don't need to use your brain to read his material?

I don't, but isn't...that the exac..what?

Seriously, there has never been a more incorrect statement than that.

It's almost like ... ... he's never read a Morrison comic book!

 

[SouLeSS]

1- yeah, it wasn't terribly hard to figure out...odds of steve staying perma-dead were incredibly low, the time travel part of the story had been almost mentioned in passing and then left alone which in a story of that nature generally means it's something that's going to be important later but the author wants you to forget about until the "a ha" moment...pretty simple if you pay attention

2, i was refering to the required inference for cap not for batman, because morrison isn't capable of writing a story where things flow logically so he HAS to spell everything out for the reader. personally i perfer a book that requires a little thought to pick everything up.

also, i skipped seven soldiers because (just in case you couldn't tell) i don't typically care for morrison's work.

hahahahhaha. If I wasn't so enthralled by that sexy mustache....

 

[Drz]

Didn't Brukaber also admit he took inspiration from the TV show lost? Both stories aren't that original in the end. Morrison is showing his love to Batman AND the crazy Silver Age stories.

 

[Art_of_Crime]

Didn't Brukaber also admit he took inspiration from the TV show lost? Both stories aren't that original in the end. Morrison is showing his love to Batman AND the crazy Silver Age stories.

that can't be good

 

[BlackLantern]

expect a polar bear to show up

 

[WompuM]

But wasn't the polar bear inspired by a GL comic????? CONSPIRACY!!!! BRUCE IS A POLAR BEAR!!!!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Didn't Brukaber also admit he took inspiration from the TV show lost? Both stories aren't that original in the end. Morrison is showing his love to Batman AND the crazy Silver Age stories.

No, he took inspiration from Slaughterhouse-V, probably the same source the creators of Lost did.

 

[Hush]

I just wow so much ill-logic on just this 4th page. Good read though.

 

[Drz]

No, he took inspiration from Slaughterhouse-V, probably the same source the creators of Lost did.

Haha you're right! This is what he said:

IGN Comics: It's definitely a clever device to accomplish that.

Brubaker: It's just sad that Lost decided to rip off Vonnegut before me. [laughs]

Source: http://comics.ign.com/articles/102/1022496p1.html

Inbefore people start bashing Morrison for possibly having the same taste in books, movies and tv series!