Victorian Detective Batman looks badass. Though i can see why it was scrapped. Might as well use Sherlock Holmes. and I'm sure doing a cross-over would be out of the question, cool as it would be.
and Lovecraftian horrors in Puritan times? Can't...resist. Must...buy.
What i meant is that Morrison is doing this in canon and he's doing it in a cool way. Its not cheesy or just plain nuts like the Silver Age stories were.
What i meant is that Morrison is doing this in canon and he's doing it in a cool way. Its not cheesy or just plain nuts like the Silver Age stories were.
Victorian Detective Batman looks badass. Though i can see why it was scrapped. Might as well use Sherlock Holmes. and I'm sure doing a cross-over would be out of the question, cool as it would be.
and Lovecraftian horrors in Puritan times? Can't...resist. Must...buy.
I believe Bruce is supposedly related to Holmes, unless it's been retconned.
I can see it now...some witch is gonna get burned, Bruce crashes through the crowd for a rescue (primitive idiots! he thinks) and then is put up himself as a witch, or sympathizer.
Or he's sheltered by a lost tribe. The possibilities are endless.
What i meant is that Morrison is doing this in canon and he's doing it in a cool way. Its not cheesy or just plain nuts like the Silver Age stories were.
Really? I didn't know it went so far as to include every medium. hmmmm.
Anyway, RoBW looks superawesome.com/hellyeah I'm so excited. And I like that B&R is getting involved already, all the clues and stuff.
Infinite Crisis gave writers the chance to have a fresh start with characters and their history. Now for the last 4 years Morrison has also been given that freedom more or less. Morrison having studied the Batman books is tying knots out of plenty of stories. Batman and Robin #10 is a fresh good example of this. We have Batman: The Cult, Batman: Gothic and some other stories where a satanist cult has been messing around with Gotham, even before Bruce was alive... Or was he? Now with the Omega Sanction we know Bruce has been in the past.
Then we got other examples such as Morrison making Jason red-haired again wheres a Crisis actually made him black haired, but hey Morrison has been given free reign. Another example from B&R #10 is how Bruce in the past has effected the Wayne Manor, wheres No Man's Land destroyed the Manor! So nowdays NML didn't destroy the Manor, courtesy of Morrison.
Infinite Crisis gave writers the chance to have a fresh start with characters and their history. Now for the last 4 years Morrison has also been given that freedom more or less. Morrison having studied the Batman books is tying knots out of plenty of stories. Batman and Robin #10 is a fresh good example of this. We have Batman: The Cult, Batman: Gothic and some other stories where a satanist cult has been messing around with Gotham, even before Bruce was alive... Or was he? Now with the Omega Sanction we know Bruce has been in the past.
Then we got other examples such as Morrison making Jason red-haired again wheres a Crisis actually made him black haired, but hey Morrison has been given free reign. Another example from B&R #10 is how Bruce in the past has effected the Wayne Manor, wheres No Man's Land destroyed the Manor! So nowdays NML didn't destroy the Manor, courtesy of Morrison.
Care to elaborate a little more? I'm kind of confused by Morrison's writing cancelling out stuff, but am really interested in the topic of it being done.
- Jason is red haired.
- Wayne Manor wasn't destroyed during No Man's Land
- Dick Grayson seems abit dumber than what he has been in earlier incarnations.
Then you got all the things he made canon. Club of Heroes, Bat-mite and so on so on. There isn't much that Morrison directly changes. It's more what he makes canon from older stories.
Victorian Detective Batman looks badass. Though i can see why it was scrapped. Might as well use Sherlock Holmes. and I'm sure doing a cross-over would be out of the question, cool as it would be.
and Lovecraftian horrors in Puritan times? Can't...resist. Must...buy.
Sherlock Holmes is public domain save for a few of the original Conan Doyle stories. So there is nothing preventing a cross-over other than a lack of will on the part of Morrison or DC Comics.
Anyways, somebody asked how we as Batman fans, feel about the idea of there always having been a Batman.
- I personally dislike time travel stories for this very reason. While Morrison clearly observed the fact that you can't do things like kill yourself (otherwise you wouldn't exist to begin with), he is still willing to leave the ripple of Batman being this long legacy and mythos throughout the ages. Batman always having existed is problematic, because it took a Batman from the future, to go to the past and make that true. I just hate that aspect of time travel stories.
- The flip side is that as a comic nerd, it is pure fun to watch Batman tear-assing around the past as Batman. In a way, it even reminds me of Phantom 2040. The whole idea of this vigilante mantle being passed down through the ages.
So it is negative as a story device, but it is a positive as a story in general.
I honestly hated the idea of Dick taking up the mantle. To me, Batman isn't like a lot of other characters. Batman is a very specific identity. The choice of Bat symbolism is very specific to Bruce. The motivation to become Batman is very specific to Bruce. I felt that anyone, even Dick, taking up the mantle, was just something that betrayed the the Batman legacy.
Then I took some time to read Batman & Robin. It really defied my expectations not only for the plot in question, but because it was being handled by Grant Morrison (sorry, not really a fan of his work, save for a few stories). It took some getting used to, but I have really warmed up to the idea of Dick Grayson as Batman (a good lesson to remain open minded about even the most blasphemous seeming plot shifts). Am I glad to see Bruce return? Of course. Do I want to see Dick lose the mantle? Not quite.
Not sure I like the idea of two Batmen running around either. Batman was always supposed to be an urban legend. Hard to maintain that characterization if Batman is seen all over the place (not that a JLA membership has really helped that cause either). But it could be interesting. Maybe they need a New Titans West/Titans L.A. with a Batman at the helm?
I honestly hated the idea of Dick taking up the mantle. To me, Batman isn't like a lot of other characters. Batman is a very specific identity. The choice of Bat symbolism is very specific to Bruce. The motivation to become Batman is very specific to Bruce. I felt that anyone, even Dick, taking up the mantle, was just something that betrayed the the Batman legacy.
Then I took some time to read Batman & Robin. It really defied my expectations not only for the plot in question, but because it was being handled by Grant Morrison (sorry, not really a fan of his work, save for a few stories). It took some getting used to, but I have really warmed up to the idea of Dick Grayson as Batman (a good lesson to remain open minded about even the most blasphemous seeming plot shifts). Am I glad to see Bruce return? Of course. Do I want to see Dick lose the mantle? Not quite.
Not sure I like the idea of two Batmen running around either. Batman was always supposed to be an urban legend. Hard to maintain that characterization if Batman is seen all over the place (not that a JLA membership has really helped that cause either). But it could be interesting. Maybe they need a New Titans West/Titans L.A. with a Batman at the helm?
Morrison has said that Bruce won't be returning to the mantle right when he gets back so I don't think we'll have two Batmen running around, so not to worry. I suppose I wasn't too hesitant about Dick taking up the Mantle outside of the fact that I was just very saddened by the loss of bruce (however temporary). I like Dick as Batman (it still feels weird to say) though because of him and Bruce's relationship and just because of how much I like Dick Grayson in general. I'm going to lose my **** if he dies at the end of all this......
That is entirely possible. In fact, that seems like the type of catalyst that Grant Morrison would look for. Look at how Bruce reacted when
Dick was nearly killed during Infinite Crisis. He actually pulled a gun on somebody, which is something that Batman swears against.
So I could just imagine how Bruce would come back into the fold and resume the mantle, if it occurred under such a circumstance.
On that note, Grant Morrison is the man who tried to kill off Magneto after having made him a junky (the one time where a retcon was very welcome). So I wouldn't rule out such a horrible end. Grant Morrison just loves to kill people and muck things up. It is his trademark. That...and campy Ninja Man-Bats.
That is entirely possible. In fact, that seems like the type of catalyst that Grant Morrison would look for. Look at how Bruce reacted when
Dick was nearly killed during Infinite Crisis. He actually pulled a gun on somebody, which is something that Batman swears against.
So I could just imagine how Bruce would come back into the fold and resume the mantle, if it occurred under such a circumstance.
On that note, Grant Morrison is the man who tried to kill off Magneto after having made him a junky (the one time where a retcon was very welcome). So I wouldn't rule out such a horrible end. Grant Morrison just loves to kill people and muck things up. It is his trademark. That...and campy Ninja Man-Bats.
I really think that if Morrison kills Dick that it could completely taint his run. I say this as a person that has really liked (even loved) the majority of it (including B&R) There was a huge outcry when Dan Didio wanted to kill him off, people love Dick Grayson (myself included)
I really think that if Morrison kills Dick that it could completely taint his run. I say this as a person that has really liked (even loved) the majority of it (including B&R) There was a huge outcry when Dan Didio wanted to kill him off, people love Dick Grayson (myself included)
That is the funny thing about Grant Morrison. He lives to upset the status quo. When you read a Grant Morrison story, you should automatically end any attachment you have to any character in the plot. They are subject to being killed off (Jean Grey), turned into psychopaths (Talia), be somebody else (Xorn) or turned into some kind of a drug addict (Magneto). In the case of Batman R.I.P., you almost get all of those with some of the poor mind screws that Morrison was going for such as
Alfred really being Bruce's father, Thomas Wayne being a wife beater, Martha Wayne being a drug addict. Batman literally going psycho
I don't hate Grant Morrison though. When the plots to his stories start off, they are often interesting. Even when he took over Batman and brought back the Man-Bats as ninjas, I didn't mind. A bit campy? Sure. But I was willing to see where that went. Was I caught off guard and resistant to bringing back Damian? Yep. Did it go well? Sure. Are things syncing up these days though? Not so much.
That is the funny thing about Grant Morrison. He lives to upset the status quo. When you read a Grant Morrison story, you should automatically end any attachment you have to any character in the plot. They are subject to being killed off (Jean Grey), turned into psychopaths (Talia), be somebody else (Xorn) or turned into some kind of a drug addict (Magneto). In the case of Batman R.I.P., you almost get all of those with some of the poor mind screws that Morrison was going for such as
Alfred really being Bruce's father, Thomas Wayne being a wife beater, Martha Wayne being a drug addict. Batman literally going psycho
I don't hate Grant Morrison though. When the plots to his stories start off, they are often interesting. Even when he took over Batman and brought back the Man-Bats as ninjas, I didn't mind. A bit campy? Sure. But I was willing to see where that went. Was I caught off guard and resistant to bringing back Damian? Yep. Did it go well? Sure. Are things syncing up these days though? Not so much.
I am not saying that they remained permanent (which nothing too crazy that Grant Morrison writes, ever does remain permanent. It gets retconned or turned around as a lie, some how). I am merely saying that Grant Morrison has a penchant for writing really controversial plots.
- RoBW deals with the Wayne family history and Gotham. Morrison really did wanna do Gladiator Batman in Rome, but then realized he had to limit himself with Gotham.
- Damian was suppose to die off in R.I.P originally, but the idea was canceled.
- after RoBW we're jumping into Morrison's next new idea that will shake the status quo once again.
- CA: So with Batman coming back, what's that going to mean for Dick Grayson? After you've been Batman, what else can you do that isn't a demotion? Where do you go from there?
GM: This is the big launch after "The Return of Bruce Wayne," so I don't want to say too much, but it's a completely new take on the Batman status quo. It's like that scene where Damian asks, what happens when Bruce Wayne comes back? We don't get to be Batman and Robin? Because I felt, and I think readers felt that they were really cool as Batman and Robin, and you don't want to lose them straightaway. So you'll see what happens.
- He wishes to see Bruce Wayne as more alive breathing man, not just the decoy of Batman.
- CA: Do you see "Return of Bruce Wayne" as the new Batman origin story?
GM: To a certain extent, it's almost replacing the death of his parents. That's never going to go away, but this is giving him something else where Batman grows naturally and spontaneously out of something else after the death of his parents... That's what I like about it – the idea that Bruce Wayne just becomes Batman. You can't stop him becoming it.
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