The Sarah Palin Thread: 'Controversial Controversy' Edition

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Yea, pretty much.

I mean if I see Obama's ideology as evil I obviously would prefer a Beagle for President than someone who thinks like him.

This should be a rather obvious statement.

The only benefit to Progressives in power is the fact that they piss off most Americans when they are allow to actually act on their ideology. (FDR was popular for repealing prohibition and WWII, not the New Deal which led to Republicans taking control of the House and Senate and repealing most of the biggest programs), LBJ lost the entire South for Democrats because of Progressive Social Policy and Obama has created what I believe will be viewed as a Libertarian Revolution with the Tea Party. Obamacare will lead to a return to States Rights.
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't sacrifice my standards for the PotUS simply because I disagree with the alternative ideology. Again, you're merely serving to illustrate the frustratingly embedded division inherent in partisan politics.

If you truly want to invoke change in your political career, I suggest you take a good, long look at what you're actually saying. Something tells me that you're going to get sucked up into the machine.
 
I know exactly what I am saying. I always do.

I am saying that in positions in government as important as competency is philosophy - how you believe people should be governed.

I totally reject Obama's political philosophy. As such, for me to support him against anyone who has a political philosophy I consider more benign would be a complete betrayal of my beliefs.

I would, while we are at it, question the notion that Obama is any more competent than Palin. Palin's made some horrific gaffs, but so has Obama. I have never seen Palin do anything quiet as ignorant and racist as Obama's police gaffe.
 
I know exactly what I am saying. I always do.

I am saying that in positions in government as important as competency is philosophy - how you believe people should be governed.

I totally reject Obama's political philosophy. As such, for me to support him against anyone who has a political philosophy I consider more benign would be a complete betrayal of my beliefs.
I'm not sure you actually understand what I'm trying to tell you, so I'll leave it there. This is going to run in circles. I can tell already.

StorminNorman said:
I would, while we are at it, question the notion that Obama is any more competent than Palin. Palin's made some horrific gaffs, but so has Obama. I have never seen Palin do anything quiet as ignorant and racist as Obama's police gaffe.
That's a pretty shallow standard for competency.
 
I'm not sure you actually understand what I'm trying to tell you, so I'll leave it there. This is going to run in circles. I can tell already.

Are you saying that Palin was beneath the position of the Presidency due to her inexperience? Because I certainly hope you then wouldn't say Obama was anymore qualified.

That's a pretty shallow standard for competency.

The little things are most important. What are some examples of Obama's brilliance? People use to talk about his rhetoric, but he is awful without a teleprompter. People talked about his intelligence, but so far he has been unable to do anything with it and only given bountiful reasons to question it.

What has Obama done to show he is remotely more competent than Sarah Palin?

In 2010, didn't Palin prove to be more effective than Barack Obama?
 
Are you saying that Palin was beneath the position of the Presidency due to her inexperience? Because I certainly hope you then wouldn't say Obama was anymore qualified.
That isn't my point at all. The point I was trying to make is bigger than Obama or Palin.

StorminNorman said:
The little things are most important. What are some examples of Obama's brilliance? [...] People talked about his intelligence, but so far he has been unable to do anything with it and only given bountiful reasons to question it.
Other than the fact that you disagree with his policies, can you give examples?

StorminNorman said:
In 2010, didn't Palin prove to be more effective than Barack Obama?
More effective at rallying a base, sure. Not at running a country. :huh:
 
That isn't my point at all. The point I was trying to make is bigger than Obama or Palin.

Well I place political philosophy higher than pedigree in elective office. I would rather elect a libertarian chimp than a Progressive Harvard professor.

Other than the fact that you disagree with his policies, can you give examples?

I believe Obama views that government is limited only by it's ability to pass legislation. I don't think he sees an area where the government can't intervene if it believes it can help. I reject that notion.

More effective at rallying a base, sure. Not at running a country. :huh:

The two aren't all that different when it comes down to it - it's all about understanding the reality of the situations and making the appropriate calls about how to react.
 
I am having a very hard time taking you serious Norm with this Palin talk... WOW. You need to step back a sec, and really think hard about that.
 
I likely won't vote major party if Palin is the GOP nominee. She is not suited to be President.
 
Yea, pretty much.

I mean if I see Obama's ideology as evil I obviously would prefer a Beagle for President than someone who thinks like him.

This should be a rather obvious statement.

The only benefit to Progressives in power is the fact that they piss off most Americans when they are allow to actually act on their ideology. (FDR was popular for repealing prohibition and WWII, not the New Deal which led to Republicans taking control of the House and Senate and repealing most of the biggest programs), LBJ lost the entire South for Democrats because of Progressive Social Policy and Obama has created what I believe will be viewed as a Libertarian Revolution with the Tea Party. Obamacare will lead to a return to States Rights.

At least you admit to being an ideologue.

It is this kind of thinking that leads to incompetent leaders like George W. Bush, Sarah Palin and Alan Grayson to come into power. Sure they're stupid, partisan and dangerous, but as long as they agree with me they're A-OK.

You consider Obama's policy dangerous because it disagrees with your philosophy. You ignore history, the economy and general facts. It is better to grasp onto the contrarian and inaccurate counter-narrative produced by men like Ron Paul, because then you can live in an ideological bubble, away from scrutiny or constructive criticism.

So, Obama=evil and Palin=Acceptable, as long as she listens to her masters.

There really is no room for common sense in an argument, because your worship your political philosophy and the demogauges who espouse it. How can compromise be reached with someone who is convinced the other side is evil? It is like arguing with televangelists. Their own concept of their righteousness makes coherent discussion impossible. Unfortunately, in this case the country suffers as a result.

LBJ lost the entire South for Democrats because of Progressive Social Policy and Obama has created what I believe will be viewed as a Libertarian Revolution with the Tea Party.

What you mean to say is he lost the South because of Civil Rights. If you want to compare them, that is fine. Democrats in 1964 did what was right for the country and ended segregation and state-sanctioned bigotry. If you want to paint the Tea Party backlash to health care reform as the same as the South turning on the Democrats because of ignorance and hatred, fine by me. I certainly see the connection. But the Civil Rights laws still stand and so will "Obamacare" stand for America's future. Siding with the losing, bitter, small minded side of history is your choice, I suppose.
 
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In 2010, didn't Palin prove to be more effective than Barack Obama?

At rallying people so stupid you could do magic tricks and have them entertained for days on end?
 
Well I place political philosophy higher than pedigree in elective office. I would rather elect a libertarian chimp than a Progressive Harvard professor.



I believe Obama views that government is limited only by it's ability to pass legislation. I don't think he sees an area where the government can't intervene if it believes it can help. I reject that notion.



The two aren't all that different when it comes down to it - it's all about understanding the reality of the situations and making the appropriate calls about how to react.

Isn't government there to help? Civil Rights, clean water standards, sewer removal requirements, limiting pollution, fire protection, police protection, building codes, fire codes, safety regulations, interstate highways, air traffic control, etc. how are therse all bad things? Why shouldn't the government be concerned with them?

Sarah Palin wants to ban gay marriage, nullify civil rights legislation, start wars with countries she does not agree with or like, and engage in corporate welfare why is she so great?

Why do you want to go backward? The framers of the Constitution did not have the intention for the document to stay as they had written it. The constitution has been amended to do away with the injustice of slavery, the cruelty Jim Crow, and ensuring that women have the right to vote. The Constitution was designed to adapt and continue to create a more perfect union.

What is good about slavery, Jim crow laws, women not having the right to vote, poll taxes, or lynching?

Why go backward? Why do you libertarians fail to acknoledge the fact that the Constitution was designed to adapt and not stay static?
 
Isn't government there to help? Civil Rights, clean water standards, sewer removal requirements, limiting pollution, fire protection, police protection, building codes, fire codes, safety regulations, interstate highways, air traffic control, etc. how are therse all bad things? Why shouldn't the government be concerned with them?

Sarah Palin wants to ban gay marriage, nullify civil rights legislation, start wars with countries she does not agree with or like, and engage in corporate welfare why is she so great?

Why do you want to go backward? The framers of the Constitution did not have the intention for the document to stay as they had written it. The constitution has been amended to do away with the injustice of slavery, the cruelty Jim Crow, and ensuring that women have the right to vote. The Constitution was designed to adapt and continue to create a more perfect union.

What is good about slavery, Jim crow laws, women not having the right to vote, poll taxes, or lynching?

Why go backward? Why do you libertarians fail to acknoledge the fact that the Constitution was designed to adapt and not stay static?

Good lord, I hope the United States doesn't go back to segregation and Jim Crow. As an Asian American, I don't want that.

I think foreign policy will kill her run for the White House IMO. If she wins and goes to war with Iran and/or North Korea with Iraq and Afghanistan still going on, the American people will turn against her.
 
I likely won't vote major party if Palin is the GOP nominee. She is not suited to be President.

She just wants to be a celebrity, and a person who jumps ship on their job as governor to their own state to pursue a life in media is not someone who can be trusted with holding furture political offices. If she keeps getting people to go out and vote as a public speaker then fine, but I would not vote for her as a candidate, and frankly I'm surprised that people are still taking her seriously as a potential GOP nominee. I mean, if she got elected president, would she half way through her term resign so that she can host her own Oprah-style talk show? She is irresponsible and immature, and those are not qualities that anyone pursuing political office should have.
 
I think after she made that comment regarding what Dr. laura said, she should be banished to the world of the forgotten. But no, they go ahead and give her a Discovery tv show. What is this world coming to?
 
I wish Palin's supporters will stop voting for Bristol on DWTS; she's terrible.
 
Maybe with a little luck it will end up getting the DWTS canceled. :yay:
 
At least you admit to being an ideologue.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

What's the difference between being an "ideologue" and being "principled"?

I stand for something and I am not going to compromise on that. Nor should any other person worthy of respect.

It is this kind of thinking that leads to incompetent leaders like George W. Bush, Sarah Palin and Alan Grayson to come into power. Sure they're stupid, partisan and dangerous, but as long as they agree with me they're A-OK.
George W. Bush isn't stupid, and was less partisan than either of his opponents in 2000 and 2004.

It's also worth nothing that George W. Bush, Palin and Grayson don't resemble libertarians and thus evoking them is another one of your strawmen.

The reason I can be so insistent on a libertarian is that it is very difficult to be a libertarian and be "dangerous" (or stupid or, for that matter, partisan).

You consider Obama's policy dangerous because it disagrees with your philosophy. You ignore history, the economy and general facts. It is better to grasp onto the contrarian and inaccurate counter-narrative produced by men like Ron Paul, because then you can live in an ideological bubble, away from scrutiny or constructive criticism.
Actually I know history, economics and general facts. That's why I consider Obama's policy dangerous.

You WISH my philosophy was the product of some contrarianism, you WISH it was as simple as getting talking points from Ron Paul. You want me to be on your level. I'm not.

I was raised in a staunchly conservative household, idolizing my staunchly conservative father. And I am not talking "paleoconservative" or "classical liberal" conservative, I am talking about straight on European-style traditionalist conservative with the foundation not based on Reason, but Faith and Duty.

In school my teachers with whom I learned politics and related fields from (history and philosophy) were liberals.

I liked the social freedom that my liberals preached. I was gun-ho for Gay Marriage, Drug Legalization and Personal Freedom.

I liked the small government freedom that my conservative voices preached.

But I knew I didn't support either doctrine totally.

In 2008 I was attracted to Ron Paul's dedication to decreasing social entitlements, but I didn't "support" him (I volunteered for Mitt ****in' Romney for Godsakes). In 2008 I was motivated by simple politics (the art of getting elected and passing legislation) not philosophy and economics. I voted for Ron Paul in the General Election purely for comedic value (an inside joke amongst my friends) - that and the fact John McCain had completely alienated me as a voter.

Then I started my current path on Enlightenment. It began with Chernoff's Alexander Hamilton biography. I loved it. I loved Hamilton. I went to the bookshop and picked the most anti-Hamilton book I could find called "Hamilton's Curse: How Alexander Hamilton betrayed the American Revolution". While I had many issues with the book and it's approach to Hamilton, it did a good job connecting the dots between Hamilton's vision and the current Federal Government.

After that I discovered Ayn Rand - not her fiction, but her non-fiction. Who Needs Philosophy? and Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal were tremendous eye openers. This was my first exposure to true "libertarian" ideals.

Then, being inspired by Hamilton's Curse (whose view was that Big Government followed a tree of Hamilton-Henry Clay-Abraham Lincoln) I read a biography on Henry Clay. Then I got the other side of the story with Andrew Jackson. Just as I respect Hamilton more than Jefferson, I respect Clay more than Jackson (though I agree with Jackson more- and agree more still with Calhoun).

Then I started getting more into economics. I've read essays and books by Mises, Rothbard, Hayek, Friedman. I've read the classics of Henry Hazlitt and Frederick Bastiat. I found another hero in Karl Hess.

All the while I read as much oppositional material as I can. I like getting both sides.

My alliance, in the end, is always to myself - to my opinion. I want my opinion to be as well informed, as valuable, as respectable as possible.

For that to be true, I must be an ideologue.

I want to be a leader. You can't have a moderate leader.

So, Obama=evil and Palin=Acceptable, as long as she listens to her masters.
Obama = evil. Palin = less evil. That's a more accurate picture. If it came down to Palin and Obama, I would likely vote third party or write in. But if it was a matter of preference between the two, Palin every day and twice on Sundays.

Again, the biggest problem with Palin is that she is stupid and would likely, in power, be a puppet for her handlers.

From I can tell, Obama is equally (if not more) stupid and is either a puppet or (more scarier) the brain of a grossly inept machine.

There really is no room for common sense in an argument, because your worship your political philosophy and the demogauges who espouse it. How can compromise be reached with someone who is convinced the other side is evil? It is like arguing with televangelists. Their own concept of their righteousness makes coherent discussion impossible. Unfortunately, in this case the country suffers as a result.
No room for common sense? Really? I don't see how it's anything but.

If I think X (be it a type of soap, or an ideology or a TV show) is bad, REALLY REALLY REALLY bad, and I think Y is REALLY REALLY REALLY good and I think Z is more Y than X is in what right mind would I ever support X over Z?

I hold my ideology because I think it's right. If I thought it was wrong, if I thought for a second it has a likely possibility of being wrong, I wouldn't be as gun-ho as I am on it. I am an extremely objective person. I have come to libertarianism because I see it as the most practical solution to American Peace and American Prosperity.

And in all of this it's worth noting that more than I am "libertarian" and I am "Constitutionalist". The difference being that Libertarians want to remove the ability for government to be larger than simple collective defense. As a Constitutionalist I favor COMMUNITIES (be it states, counties, cities) deciding for themselves the laws by which they are governed.

While Progressives want to eliminate the possibility of libertarian government in America, I support the ability of Massachusetts to have Universal Healthcare, 100% Public 0% Private Property and replace the American flag with a tie died hammer and sickle.

If anything, that's moderation to be proud of. That's tolerance. I have it. Barack Obama does not.

At rallying people so stupid you could do magic tricks and have them entertained for days on end?

You're better than this.
 
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PALIN: 'I'M THINKING ABOUT A 2012 RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY'
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/17/palin-i-am-thinking-about-2012-bid/?hpt=T2

You have no support beyond the most extreme wing of your own party, but you go right ahead Sarah. You've already written the campaign against you by quitting the Alaskan governorship halfway through because you didn't want to be a 'dead duck floating down the river'. Not to mention all of the wonderful idiotic gaffes and rhetoric to prove how incapable you are. Then there's always your 'I'd rather be out here in natural rather than some stuffy old political office' line that has been running in the promos for your reality show Alaskan awareness show.
 
I don't know how anyone can think someone who abandoned the governorship halfway through her term to go on Fox News and reality shows is in any way, shape, or form qualified to be President of the United States.
 
Why go backward? Why do you libertarians fail to acknoledge the fact that the Constitution was designed to adapt and not stay static?

The Constitution was designed to be amended, absolutely.

But no one in Washington seems to want to go through the process of amending it.

If, for example, you went through the Amendment Process to do National Healthcare, all of my Constitutional qualms go out the window. My plan for removing Obamacare through Nullification goes out the window.

Obamacare is unconstitutional.

Social Security is unconstitutional.

The Department of Education is unconstitutional.

The Federal Government spending money on Education period is unconstitutional.

Federal laws against marijuana and other drugs are unconstitutional.

That can all be solved by going through the amendment process laid out in the...Constitution.

:awesome::up:
 
I don't know how anyone can think someone who abandoned the governorship halfway through her term to go on Fox News and reality shows is in any way, shape, or form qualified to be President of the United States.

I never said that Sarah Palin is in any way shape or form qualified to be President of the United States.

I don't think I have said an overtly positive thing about Sarah Palin in this entire thread.

All I have said is that in comparison of Barack Obama - Palin is a lesser evil.

EDIT:

I apologize, I see that that was more likely a response to Marx than myself.
 
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I don't know how anyone can think someone who abandoned the governorship halfway through her term to go on Fox News and reality shows is in any way, shape, or form qualified to be President of the United States.

It honestly blows my mind man. I just cannot understand it at all.
 
PALIN: 'I'M THINKING ABOUT A 2012 RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY'
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/17/palin-i-am-thinking-about-2012-bid/?hpt=T2

You have no support beyond the most extreme wing of your own party, but you go right ahead Sarah. You've already written the campaign against you by quitting the Alaskan governorship halfway through because you didn't want to be a 'dead duck floating down the river'. Not to mention all of the wonderful idiotic gaffes and rhetoric to prove how incapable you are. Then there's always your 'I'd rather be out here in natural rather than some stuffy old political office' line that has been running in the promos for your reality show Alaskan awareness show.

The irony is that Palin is actually a moderate in terms of political philosophy.

I am extreme Right Wing. Ron Paul is extreme Right Wing. Gary Johnson is extreme Right Wing.

Palin? Not so much.

Palin is only "far right wing" if you use it as more an insult rather than an observation.
 
Palin's not my favorite either.

That being said, some of the stuff Obama says is absolutely mystifying. And people often ignore the crazy stuff that he has while constantly harping on how bad of a public speaker Bush was or Palin is.

Did anyone actually listen to Obama's recent Medal of Honor ceremony speech? The dude is overrated as a public speaker.
 
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