Greens
I am Danny DeVito
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2011
- Messages
- 16,459
- Reaction score
- 804
- Points
- 103
Apu may not be leaving after all Simpsons exec responds to Apu leaving claim
This ignores treatment of minorities in the US over its entire history. This is the defense used to explain why minstrel shows or blackface was never all the harmful. That casting white actors as minority stereotypes in films had no effect in how the greater white population of the US view minorities. Entertainment has never lived in a vacuum, never will.I haven't seen the documentary but I've read and seen enough discussion about stereotypes in general to know that the level of harmfulness they cause is overblown on a wide scale. I'm not unsympathetic to people's feelings or those who grew up bullied by schoolmates, but bigoted people will continue to exist whether Apu is on TV or not, so the better option is encourage people to ignore that **** and make the changes they want. My main issue about this hole thing isn't even really about Apu, it's about people who aren't talent enough demanding talented people conform to their view of the world. There's no excuses anymore for people not to create what they want, the tools and resources are widely available and the internet gives an opportunity to showcase yourself. If you think you can do better then go out there and do it, have some confidence, find the right people, band together and create something you love.
So if Apu was the shows take on white, with the skin tone to match, he'd have the same job and they'd make the same joke out of it? He'd be an immigrate from India?Race and culture are two different things.
You'll forgive me but... That sounds exactly like blithely dismissing an individual or groups' concerns on an issue without learning what they find problematic while claiming to not need to find out it in the first place and placing your assumptions as more legitimate about their intentions, again, all while not having bothered to even hear their side in the first place.
Once more, I don't necessarily agree with all their conclusions but I've watched the documentary and it's not some "SJW" screed, it's quite heartfelt, in indeed is a window into a community I'm not a part of.
I also think... Art, especially things intended as mass entertainment done with corporate backing, doesn't exist in a vacuum. Audience reaction does play a part and that goes beyond the simple facts of the economic realities of the marketplace. Acting like considering the outcry from segments of the audience is some grand crime is looking for purity where it's never been. I mean... Look at the Battlestar re-boot. They had a gender swap of a main character and I'm sure that was done to include more women in the cast. There was likely a consideration of representation in the planning stages. That's a case of decisions made before the product is unveiled. Other times there's decisions made in the middle of production. The controversies that led to the departure of Roseanne Barr recently come to mind, and I suppose James Gunn too, though those had less to do with the content of products I suppose. Still corporate entertainment is kind of a two way street, especially today. And... This is still done via "choice". If a corporate entity decides to take something that they view as public outcry into consideration... they can make that choice. Just as the corporate overlords make choices that take into account the public all the time, just as they did before the age of social media. One can be angry about "the SJWs" all one wants but let's not even begin to act as though these corporations could choose to ignore what they wished to. This isn't the government mandating change, it's businesses deciding what feedback they are getting on their product.
Again... I'm not particularly invested in getting rid of Apu. I see the argument about him actually being a funny character that's actually a comparatively positive role model on the Simpsons... Comparatively since let's be honest they often depict him as being underhanded in his business practices, but then everyone has some issue on the show. But you know what... That argument, that "the show tackles everyone, so nobody has a right to complain" doesn't hold as much water as many think. I understand that the show creators have a right to do whatever they want but you know... Members of the audience have the right to voice their opinion on said product and when a product has far reaching impact and the longevity of The Simpsons I don't think we should cavalierly dismiss segments of the audience's issues with a character that traffics in stereotype, especially someone isn't even going to bother listening to the particulars of the group being stereotyped's issues with the product being put out there.
This ignores treatment of minorities in the US over its entire history. This is the defense used to explain why minstrel shows or blackface was never all the harmful. That casting white actors as minority stereotypes in films had no effect in how the greater white population of the US view minorities. Entertainment has never lived in a vacuum, never will.
Also, in the US people can create what they like. And you know what else we can do here? We can critique other's work. And considering the amount it is done here, it is amazing how people complain about that very thing.
There is no worse argument then, "if you don't like it, do better". It's the argument of someone who doesn't have an actual argument.
I find Apu pretty cool actually and again I have been subject to loads of racism and bigotry with folks imitating the indian accent to me but that’s really not on the simpsons per say. These same racist pricks will stereotypically imitate how mexicans sound or other asians sound but that’s the ignorance and stupidity of these bigots in general. I don’t blame the simpsons for their crap behavior.
In general I think there is a need for more positive ‘normal’ portrayals of south asians in American entertainment without too much of an emphasis on ethnicity or culture. Within British tv, there are loads of characters who are played by south asian actors and they are portrayed like normal working folks for the most part without much of an emphasis on race, culture or playing up stereotypes. This hasn’t happened yet in American entertainment but these things take time so I am not too fussed. As an aside, I actually liked the depiction of Agent Nadeem and his family in Daredevil. That was a great role and opportunity to showcase some south asian talent.
In general, there are so many larger racial issues to tackle at the moment where dangerously violent behavior can occur and those are the topics we should really be discussing how to solve. I have been held at knife point, gun point and even chased after by thugs due to my ethnicity and religion and trust me Apu should be the least of worries. If Apu is so offensive, I am surprised thes same folks aren’t throwing a massive fit over the indian cab driver character in Deadpool. It can be argued that he is far more offensive than the level headed, competent, smart and practical Apu.
In general I think there is a need for more positive ‘normal’ portrayals of south asians in American entertainment without too much of an emphasis on ethnicity or culture. Within British tv, there are loads of characters who are played by south asian actors and they are portrayed like normal working folks for the most part without much of an emphasis on race, culture or playing up stereotypes. This hasn’t happened yet in American entertainment but these things take time so I am not too fussed. As an aside, I actually liked the depiction of Agent Nadeem and his family in Daredevil. That was a great role and opportunity to showcase some south asian talent.
Honest question, cause I haven't watched a ton of Simpsons or watched it at all in many years: what about the character is so terrible? Whenever I think of Apu, it makes me think of an Indian friend I had in high school that loved the character. I can see how his being voiced by a white actor in 2018 is problematic, but I can't recall anything bad about the character himself. He has a funny name, a thick accent, and he works reeeeeaaaally hard.Is Smithers the only queer character that American families know of? No, there are other role models and popular characters. When Apu is all you have growing up, that's a problem. When Apu is the one character reflecting and refracting the image of Indians in America, that's a problem.
You're putting a lot of effort into ignoring and defending power dynamics that harm people. A bunch of white writers writing stereotypes of people in marginalized communities used to be an unquestioned norm and look at the racism and violence in America today. Americans mocking Canadians isn't a big deal to Canadians because the quality of life of Canadians isn't affected by it. It would be affected if that mockery was coupled with the economic and political subjugation of Canadians like it is for black and brown peoples.
Is Smithers the only queer character that American families know of? No, there are other role models and popular characters. When Apu is all you have growing up, that's a problem. When Apu is the one character reflecting and refracting the image of Indians in America, that's a problem.
Honest question, cause I haven't watched a ton of Simpsons or watched it at all in many years: what about the character is so terrible? Whenever I think of Apu, it makes me think of an Indian friend I had in high school that loved the character. I can see how his being voiced by a white actor in 2018 is problematic, but I can't recall anything bad about the character himself. He has a funny name, a thick accent, and he works reeeeeaaaally hard.
It really isn't though this is another ridiculous form of outrage that didn't exist 10 years ago. And please don't get me wrong im not slating or criticizing you for saying it im just saying how insane that this is an issue that we feel like we need to address.
Voice acting is a profession there are plenty of people I bet who just do that, now can you imagine trying to get a job in that field (that's probably already pretty crowded) and now if this really starts to get pushed it will be even smaller.
You stop having a job as broad as a "voice actor" your now just "voice actor of male white parts". The notion that people should only play cartoon characters that's colour and or faith matches their own is beyond madness.
It would put nancy cartwright out of a job.
I find Apu pretty cool actually and again I have been subject to loads of racism and bigotry with folks imitating the indian accent to me but that’s really not on the simpsons per say. These same racist pricks will stereotypically imitate how mexicans sound or other asians sound but that’s the ignorance and stupidity of these bigots in general. I don’t blame the simpsons for their crap behavior.
In general I think there is a need for more positive ‘normal’ portrayals of south asians in American entertainment without too much of an emphasis on ethnicity or culture. Within British tv, there are loads of characters who are played by south asian actors and they are portrayed like normal working folks for the most part without much of an emphasis on race, culture or playing up stereotypes. This hasn’t happened yet in American entertainment but these things take time so I am not too fussed. As an aside, I actually liked the depiction of Agent Nadeem and his family in Daredevil. That was a great role and opportunity to showcase some south asian talent.
In general, there are so many larger racial issues to tackle at the moment where dangerously violent behavior can occur and those are the topics we should really be discussing how to solve. I have been held at knife point, gun point and even chased after by thugs due to my ethnicity and religion and trust me Apu should be the least of worries. If Apu is so offensive, I am surprised thes same folks aren’t throwing a massive fit over the indian cab driver character in Deadpool. It can be argued that he is far more offensive than the level headed, competent, smart and practical Apu.
Sorry to hear mate. I agree that Nadeem in Daredevil was great to see.I find Apu pretty cool actually and again I have been subject to loads of racism and bigotry with folks imitating the indian accent to me but that’s really not on the simpsons per say. These same racist pricks will stereotypically imitate how mexicans sound or other asians sound but that’s the ignorance and stupidity of these bigots in general. I don’t blame the simpsons for their crap behavior.
In general I think there is a need for more positive ‘normal’ portrayals of south asians in American entertainment without too much of an emphasis on ethnicity or culture. Within British tv, there are loads of characters who are played by south asian actors and they are portrayed like normal working folks for the most part without much of an emphasis on race, culture or playing up stereotypes. This hasn’t happened yet in American entertainment but these things take time so I am not too fussed. As an aside, I actually liked the depiction of Agent Nadeem and his family in Daredevil. That was a great role and opportunity to showcase some south asian talent.
In general, there are so many larger racial issues to tackle at the moment where dangerously violent behavior can occur and those are the topics we should really be discussing how to solve. I have been held at knife point, gun point and even chased after by thugs due to my ethnicity and religion and trust me Apu should be the least of worries. If Apu is so offensive, I am surprised thes same folks aren’t throwing a massive fit over the indian cab driver character in Deadpool. It can be argued that he is far more offensive than the level headed, competent, smart and practical Apu.
You think rollerblading-in-hot-pants-and-collecting-Barbie-Dolls Smithers isn't a pretty hardcore one-note caricature? Literally every elderly character on the show from Grandpa to Abe to Old Jewish Man & Hans Moleman? Bumblebee Man? Cat Lady, Dr Nick?
Are you sure this isn't the Burn It With Fire thread.
#CartoonManBad