World "The Spectacular Spider-Man" Appreciation Thread (possible spoilers)

[Kahran Ramsus]

1. Gangland
2. Shear Strength
3. Group Therapy
4. Final Curtain
5. Opening Night

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Not enough love for Shear Strength. A brilliant adaption of the classic Master Planner story, including that iconic scene of Spidey trapped under the rubble drowning.

Brilliant, indeed. I don't even mind how they changed Spidey's motivation for getting out from under the giant slab of metal, in fact, IMO it worked just as well. He sees Gwen lying there unconscious and helpless right in front of him. It was a powerful moment. Not taking anything away from the original comic version--I thought that was great as well. Thinking of his sick Aunt knowing he's the only chance she's got at survival. Very powerful stuff.

Shear strength was good. And I liked the Master Planner stuff (though I knew nothing of it comic-wise so it was all new to me.)
I'm not surprised to see Gangland on a lot of the lists. That was a near-masterpiece.

Gangland is one of the few times I've ever given anything a 10 out of 10.

 

[The Joker]

Brilliant, indeed. I don't even mind how they changed Spidey's motivation for getting out from under the giant slab of metal, in fact, IMO it worked just as well. He sees Gwen lying there unconscious and helpless right in front of him. It was a powerful moment. Not taking anything away from the original comic version--I thought that was great as well. Thinking of his sick Aunt knowing he's the only chance she's got at survival. Very powerful stuff.

The principal was the same. Someone he cared about, their life was in danger, and he found his inner strength to overcome his trapping.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

The principal was the same. Someone he cared about, their life was in danger, and he found his inner strength to overcome his trapping.

Yep. Exactly.

 

[The Joker]

That's why I don't care about changes to source material as long as they get the essence of what they're trying to adapt, which that scene in Shear Strength did. Heck the whole episode nailed the Master Planner story.

Btw I just bought the whole series on blu-ray.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

That's why I don't care about changes to source material as long as they get the essence of what they're trying to adapt, which that scene in Shear Strength did. Heck the whole episode nailed the Master Planner story.

Ditto. Change is just a given when it comes to adaptations. Doesn't matter if it's books, movies, comics, music, etc. However, what makes one adaptation successful over another is the ability to convey the true core qualities of the original/source material. TSSM made changes, for sure, but it did so with energy, conviction, and verisimilitude. As a cross reference, we can compare this to an adaptation that is not successful by looking at something like the animated show USM or even ASM2.

I really like how Weisman approached the series. He set out to create something that was classic, iconic, contemporary, cohesive, and coherent. I think he was quite successful in that endeavor and the examples of those 5 C's are evident throughout.

Btw I just bought the whole series on blu-ray.

Nice pick up. Have you watched any episodes yet under the improved format?

For me, both as a Spidey fan and as an amateur videophile, watching TSSM on Blu ray was invigorating. The detail in the art, increased color and sound made it like I was experiencing the show over again for the first time. I totally recommend it for anyone.



Edit: Completely unrelated, but, nice avatar. I'm currently rewatching B:TAS from start to finish and just finished up Heart of Ice. Awesome stuff.

 

[The Joker]

Ditto. Change is just a given when it comes to adaptations. Doesn't matter if it's books, movies, comics, music, etc. However, what makes one adaptation successful over another is the ability to convey the true core qualities of the original/source material. TSSM made changes, for sure, but it did so with energy, conviction, and verisimilitude. As a cross reference, we can compare this to an adaptation that is not successful by looking at something like the animated show USM or even ASM2.

I really like how Weisman approached the series. He set out to create something that was classic, iconic, contemporary, cohesive, and coherent. I think he was quite successful in that endeavor and the examples of those 5 C's are evident throughout.

Exactly. When fans complain about superficial things like a tweak to a costume or something, I couldn't care less about such things. It's getting the essence of it and the character right that is most important.

In some cases an adaption can even improve the quality of a character. Look at what BTAS did for Mr. Freeze for example.

Nice pick up. Have you watched any episodes yet under the improved format?

For me, both as a Spidey fan and as an amateur videophile, watching TSSM on Blu ray was invigorating. The detail in the art, increased color and sound made it like I was experiencing the show over again for the first time. I totally recommend it for anyone.

I haven't seen any of the episodes yet in the improved format. I can't wait to sit down and watch them. I am torn between watching some of my favorite episodes first, or watching the series in chronological order.

Edit: Completely unrelated, but, nice avatar. I'm currently rewatching B:TAS from start to finish and just finished up Heart of Ice. Awesome stuff.

The basis episode for my aforementioned Mr. Freeze example. One of the show's best episodes. If only BTAS would get the blu-ray treatment. But then I'm not sure some of the episodes would transfer well to 1080 resolution.

 

[Spider2099]

I have TSSM on blu-ray as well and it's definitely a nice experience. It's just sad marathoning the show all at once because it's over way too quickly.

 

[SymbioticToxin]

I still need to get the blu-ray. I've seen it at the wal-mart here, but that was a long while ago so it might not be there again.

 

[Spider2099]

You can always buy it off of amazon. They have it listed for $22.99 which isn't too bad.

 

[zeptron]

Ditto. Change is just a given when it comes to adaptations. Doesn't matter if it's books, movies, comics, music, etc. However, what makes one adaptation successful over another is the ability to convey the true core qualities of the original/source material. TSSM made changes, for sure, but it did so with energy, conviction, and verisimilitude. As a cross reference, we can compare this to an adaptation that is not successful by looking at something like the animated show USM or even ASM2.

Yeah I admit, I'm not that big of a comic buff, but there are a couple things that annoy me. People whom criticize pretty much anything different from how the comic did things. I think if people want everything to be exactly like the comics, they should stick to reading them. Another thing is, most people that don't read comics tend to base what they know mainly from whatever cartoon or movie introduced them to the character. For instance because of Spider-man TAS, people think the symbiote originally came from a space shuttle and tend to criticize more recent Spider-man adaptations for having Peter start out as a teen when in the comics he got his powers at 15. People also still think that Peter and Eddie Brock are supposed to be rivals at the Bugle. That was something that they did for TAS. In the original comics, they never even met until Eddie became Venom. Hell some people think that Peter is supposed to pretty muscular like he was in TAS

Like I said I'm not that big of a comic buff, but it annoys me when mainstreamers act like they know everything because they watched the cartoons from the 90s. Cartoons and movies can be a good place for people to be introduced to a character but people should really do their research on a character before they get into a debate with others about it. Cartoons and movies for the most part don't follow the comics 100%. That's why they're called adaptations.

Hell they're still people that actually think Joker is supposed to be the killer of Batman's parents.

 

[spiderman2]

I need to go throw this show again explectinolay season 2 has I didn't have the chancel that season 2 was shown on so I had to watch it on youtube and with season 2 not coming out in full and only on volumes for a long time I tried to weight for the complete season 2 to come out for a while. After a while I brought the season 2 voulumes has I thought we where never going to get a complete season 2 and then I got the bluray not long after it came out. Because of that I have seen all of season 1 episodes like 6-7 I would guess but season 2 I think I have only seen like 3 times and that including the first time on youtube.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

My favourite episodes are Reactions, Group Therapy, Shear Strength, Gangland and Final Curtain.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Exactly. When fans complain about superficial things like a tweak to a costume or something, I couldn't care less about such things. It's getting the essence of it and the character right that is most important.

In some cases an adaption can even improve the quality of a character. Look at what BTAS did for Mr. Freeze for example.

I agree.

Was there anything in TSSM that you felt was an improvement?

I haven't seen any of the episodes yet in the improved format. I can't wait to sit down and watch them. I am torn between watching some of my favorite episodes first, or watching the series in chronological order.

I watched them in chronological order. IMO, that's the best way to go.

The basis episode for my aforementioned Mr. Freeze example. One of the show's best episodes. If only BTAS would get the blu-ray treatment. But then I'm not sure some of the episodes would transfer well to 1080 resolution.

Yeah, the aspect ratio of the show along with its age may cause problems with the transfer. I'm no expert on the subject but I do know it really comes down to who would end up doing the conversion. Does WB still own the rights to B:TAS? They don't exactly have the best track record in that dept.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I still need to get the blu-ray. I've seen it at the wal-mart here, but that was a long while ago so it might not be there again.

You can always buy it off of amazon. They have it listed for $22.99 which isn't too bad.

What's interesting, is you can buy the entire series on Blu ray brand new for less than what you'd pay to buy the entire series brand new on DVD. IMO, if you love the show, the upgrade to BR is worth the cost. And IMO there's no better way to show support of something you like/love than with your wallet. I mean, you never know, the more sales they get could pique interest from those with the power to get the show going again in some form.

Yeah I admit, I'm not that big of a comic buff, but there are a couple things that annoy me. People whom criticize pretty much anything different from how the comic did things. I think if people want everything to be exactly like the comics, they should stick to reading them. Another thing is, most people that don't read comics tend to base what they know mainly from whatever cartoon or movie introduced them to the character. For instance because of Spider-man TAS, people think the symbiote originally came from a space shuttle and tend to criticize more recent Spider-man adaptations for having Peter start out as a teen when in the comics he got his powers at 15. People also still think that Peter and Eddie Brock are supposed to be rivals at the Bugle. That was something that they did for TAS. In the original comics, they never even met until Eddie became Venom. Hell some people think that Peter is supposed to pretty muscular like he was in TAS

Like I said I'm not that big of a comic buff, but it annoys me when mainstreamers act like they know everything because they watched the cartoons from the 90s. Cartoons and movies can be a good place for people to be introduced to a character but people should really do their research on a character before they get into a debate with others about it. Cartoons and movies for the most part don't follow the comics 100%. That's why they're called adaptations.

Hell they're still people that actually think Joker is supposed to be the killer of Batman's parents.

I agree with your sentiment. People doing research is a good thing but not everyone is that interested in a character or story to delve deeper into where and how it came into being. But also, that's where debate can be useful. Those with more education on the subject are able to enlighten the unaware. Not to change their minds about their opinions but rather to give them the tools to understand why something is not necessarily accurate in accordance with the source.

I'm a comic buff in the sense that I know, love, and have respect for the material. I'm fully aware that when I go to see Spidey movies or tv shows, it's not going to be a page for page remake. And honestly, I wouldn't want that. Like you say, it's called an adaptation for a reason. BUT, that being said, I don't like change for the sake of change. When those changes that are made come off as contrived, that's when I have an issue with them. It's totally a doable thing to make something new and fresh and different while also maintaining a certain amount of respect for the source. A character should be recognizable going from one medium to another.

And, in some cases, as stated by Joker a little bit up the page, you can find adaptations that improve the quality of characters or stories. A great example is the SM:TAS one you brought up. It took the story of Eddie Brock and the symbiote and improved upon what we saw in the comics. There was an actual connection between Eddie and Peter and they gave some real motivation for Eddie to hate Spider-Man. So once he got the symbiote, everything lined up and made sense.

My favourite episodes are Reactions, Group Therapy, Shear Strength, Gangland and Final Curtain.

Nice list. I happened to notice that 4 out of the 5 episodes you chose have a heavy dose of Doc Ock t:

 

[Spider2099]

What's interesting, is you can buy the entire series on Blu ray brand new for less than what you'd pay to buy the entire series brand new on DVD. IMO, if you love the show, the upgrade to BR is worth the cost. And IMO there's no better way to show support of something you like/love than with your wallet. I mean, you never know, the more sales they get could pique interest from those with the power to get the show going again in some form.

True, you never know. Too bad Sony can't give Marvel the film rights and in return get the animation rights back and continue TSSM. Or maybe the animated movie directed by Phil Lord and Chris Miller can be a continuation of the show? That would be cool.

 

[zeptron]

I agree.

Was there anything in TSSM that you felt was an improvement?

Well I felt it improved on some villains. Electro for instance. Was much more complex than his comic counterpoint. Max Dillon initially just wanted to be normal again, but as time went on he started to completely lose any sanity that he had left. Also liked the look he had better than the comic look. Never really did care for the starfish mask look.

There's also Rhino. Most adaptations just portray him as a big dumb brute. In Spectacular, he wasn't a genius or anything, but he wasn't stupid either. He actually had moments of ingenuity. For instance when O'Hirn became Rhino, he was the one to figure out that if he wanted to find Spider-man, he would need to find Peter Parker. And then later on in Accomplices, he tries to take out Spidey by making a parking garage fall on him(a trick Spidey had used on Shocker in his debut episode). And Spidey thought that he was trying to ram him while doing so.

And, in some cases, as stated by Joker a little bit up the page, you can find adaptations that improve the quality of characters or stories. A great example is the SM:TAS one you brought up. It took the story of Eddie Brock and the symbiote and improved upon what we saw in the comics. There was an actual connection between Eddie and Peter and they gave some real motivation for Eddie to hate Spider-Man. So once he got the symbiote, everything lined up and made sense.

This reminds me another thing I felt that Spectacular improved on. Using the Ultimate storyline and initially making Peter and Eddie friends. As when Eddie became Venom, it made things more personal for Peter. As his childhood friend had become one of his worst foes. I say Eddie's story there pretty much rivaled Two-Face's in Batman TAS. Plus Venom actually used the info he had and came the closest to beating Spidey. Other versions mainly just stalked Spidey and made vague threats that he never really followed up on.

And the Peter and Eddie being friends thing is one of the things people tend to criticize. Like I said, it's usually mainstreamers that base what they know mainly from Spider-man TAS.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

True, you never know. Too bad Sony can't give Marvel the film rights and in return get the animation rights back and continue TSSM. Or maybe the animated movie directed by Phil Lord and Chris Miller can be a continuation of the show? That would be cool.

Hindsight is 20/20, right. It would have been better had Sony kept the animation rights and continued TSSM while selling/giving back the movie rights to Marvel and we'd get a different take on Spidey in film.

I'd love to see TSSM come back into production but I'd also take a continuation of the show in comic book form.

Well I felt it improved on some villains. Electro for instance. Was much more complex than his comic counterpoint. Max Dillon initially just wanted to be normal again, but as time went on he started to completely lose any sanity that he had left. Also liked the look he had better than the comic look. Never really did care for the starfish mask look.

There's also Rhino. Most adaptations just portray him as a big dumb brute. In Spectacular, he wasn't a genius or anything, but he wasn't stupid either. He actually had moments of ingenuity. For instance when O'Hirn became Rhino, he was the one to figure out that if he wanted to find Spider-man, he would need to find Peter Parker. And then later on in Accomplices, he tries to take out Spidey by making a parking garage fall on him(a trick Spidey had used on Shocker in his debut episode). And Spidey thought that he was trying to ram him while doing so.

Good examples. Apparently there is a deleted scene where after O'Hirn gets the Rhino suit he gets his hands on a copy of the White Pages and looks up Peter Parker. There are several listed so we see him going door to door trying to find the one that takes the pictures of Spidey. I was hoping they would have included stuff like that on the BR. Oh well.

This reminds me another thing I felt that Spectacular improved on. Using the Ultimate storyline and initially making Peter and Eddie friends. As when Eddie became Venom, it made things more personal for Peter. As his childhood friend had become one of his worst foes. I say Eddie's story there pretty much rivaled Two-Face's in Batman TAS. Plus Venom actually used the info he had and came the closest to beating Spidey. Other versions mainly just stalked Spidey and made vague threats that he never really followed up on.

And the Peter and Eddie being friends thing is one of the things people tend to criticize. Like I said, it's usually mainstreamers that base what they know mainly from Spider-man TAS.

You can't really get upset about that though. I mean, not everyone is willing to delve deeper into certain topics either out of a lack of desire or being lazy. All you can do is offer them the awareness that the source is different from whatever version they are holding as the concrete truth. If they refuse to accept that info, then, oh well. Not my problem if they wish to remain ignorant.

The story of Eddie and Peter in TSSM along with the arcs surrounding the symbiote is definitely something that I found to be an improvement over the source material.

 

[The Joker]

I agree.

Was there anything in TSSM that you felt was an improvement?

Although the Raimi movies did it, too, I thought having the Harry/Peter friendship as early as High School was an improvement. I feel it is a much stronger friendship when you see these guys being best friends from the get-go.

The whole misdirection with the Goblin's identity was handled brilliantly. Stan did a great job of keeping readers guessing, but this show really pulled off a lot of great twists and misdirection. Even knowing who the Green Goblin was supposed to be, you wondered until the last minute could it actually not be Norman.

Making Rhino and Sandman friends and partners in crime before they became super villains was really good and added some dimension to them. They had great chemistry.

I liked the kind of mentor worship Electro had for Doc Ock. Max Dillon was always very impressionable and easily led in the comics. It's why he was a good candidate to be part of the Sinister Six. But the way the show played on that by having Ock be a sort of mentor and guide whom Electro blindly followed and defended was great.

I watched them in chronological order. IMO, that's the best way to go.

That's what I'm doing. I just finished season 1. Something that struck me was how the first half of the season was made up of the B and C list villains (Vulture, Electro, Lizard, Sandman, Rhino, and Shocker). The second half dealt with the big guns. By that I mean Doc Ock and Green Goblin. Venom to a lesser extent because I don't consider him on the same level as Ock and Goblin. They are the only two A-listers Spidey has, IMO. But I can't deny in terms of being recognizable and having impact with fans (at least in the 80's and 90's), Venom is up there with those two.

Another thing I noticed was there was a lot of Raimi movie references. Things like the small spider hairs coming out of Peter's fingers for him to stick to things. Ock's tentacles having the spinal column thing with the chip on his neck, the lights in the tentacle claws, and wearing a brown trenchcoat. The symbiote suit basically being the Spider-Man suit except black. Norman Osborn having all this creepy mask memorabilia in his home.

There was some visual references, too. These two stuck out to me the most:

Yeah, the aspect ratio of the show along with its age may cause problems with the transfer. I'm no expert on the subject but I do know it really comes down to who would end up doing the conversion. Does WB still own the rights to B:TAS? They don't exactly have the best track record in that dept.

As far as I know WB still owns the rights. Some of the movies have been done on blu-ray. Like Return of the Joker.

 

[The Joker]

Even the Ock accident scene has him dressed similarly to Molina's Otto in his accident scene, with the white sleeveless vest, and standing on a little circular platform to put on the tentacles:

I'll probably come across more Raimi movie references in season 2 that I've forgotten. I think they did a giant Sandman bit in season 2 like Church's in SM-3. I think it's obvious Greg Weissman was a big fan of the Raimi Spidey movies.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Although the Raimi movies did it, too, I thought having the Harry/Peter friendship as early as High School was an improvement. I feel it is a much stronger friendship when you see these guys being best friends from the get-go.

The whole misdirection with the Goblin's identity was handled brilliantly. Stan did a great job of keeping readers guessing, but this show really pulled off a lot of great twists and misdirection. Even knowing who the Green Goblin was supposed to be, you wondered until the last minute could it actually not be Norman.

Making Rhino and Sandman friends and partners in crime before they became super villains was really good and added some dimension to them. They had great chemistry.

I liked the kind of mentor worship Electro had for Doc Ock. Max Dillon was always very impressionable and easily led in the comics. It's why he was a good candidate to be part of the Sinister Six. But the way the show played on that by having Ock be a sort of mentor and guide whom Electro blindly followed and defended was great.

All good points. I especially agree with the mystery/reveal surrounding the Green Goblin. The writers really did have everyone guessing up until the final moments and it was humorous that there was even a small chance the GG could have been Harry's mom.

Harry to Norman (Chameleon): "If it's not me or you or Menken. Then who's left that knew about the green? HUH! You don't think the Goblin could be...Mmmmom!"

Norman shrugs.

Like you say though even knowing who the GG is supposed to be they played off that really well and made you doubt your reasons the entire time. I'm just glad that it did end up being Norman.

I also found the relationship between O'Hirn and Marko as a big positive. Their interplay while taking on Spidey during Reinforcements was both funny and awesome. It's great when the villains have their own 'quips' going on.

Another thing I noticed was there was a lot of Raimi movie references. Things like Spidey the small spider hairs coming out of Peter's fingers for him to stick to things. Ock's tentacles having the spinal column thing with the chip on his neck, the lights in the tentacle claws, and wearing a brown trenchcoat. The symbiote suit basically being the Spider-Man suit except black.

Oh definitely. There were plenty of Raimi influences in this show. As for the black suit, something else I really enjoyed about it was the progression of how the suit's appearance changed over those few episodes. It starts out as basically just the red and blue suit covered with black and white. The more the symbiote gains a hold of Peter and his emotions/actions begin to change as well, we see the suit slowly take the shape of the classic symbiote suit. The web pattern on the suit diminishes and the spider on the chest grows into a large version that wraps to the sides of his torso.

There was some visual references, too. These two stuck out to me the most:

Those are some good examples and here's a couple more:

There's also large chunks of Raimi influence in the episode Intervention. Scenes with Peter and Ben sitting in the car together, etc.

 

[spiderman2]

Even the Ock accident scene has him dressed similarly to Molina's Otto in his accident scene, with the white sleeveless vest, and standing on a little circular platform to put on the tentacles:

I'll probably come across more Raimi movie references in season 2 that I've forgotten. I think they did a giant Sandman bit in season 2 like Church's in SM-3. I think it's obvious Greg Weissman was a big fan of the Raimi Spidey movies.

Wow I didn't remember those ones at all that is awesome! I do remember the train one and that was awesome to but I forgot about the other ones.

 

[SymbioticToxin]

That's part of why the series was so good. It encompassed the 616 Universe, the Ultimate universe, and the the Raimi films.

 

[SuperiorHero]

So now that Marvel and Sony are sharing Spider-Man. . . could we maybe get a continuation of TSSM ? The answer is probably no, but a guy can dream.

 

[W/ Great Power]

So now that Marvel and Sony are sharing Spider-Man. . . could we maybe get a continuation of TSSM ? The answer is probably no, but a guy can dream.

I think we would all officially lose our minds.

I couldn't be happier with what's developed in the last 15 hours or so, but that would be the cherry on top of an already amazing cake.