The speed of the Z-shenshi.

SSJ4_Mikael said:
But Krillin could sence Fruiza, that proves you wrong.
If he was so fast that his chi was unable to sense than how could Kuririn do it?

Why should I accept your speculation when you are proven to be wrong over and over?

Dude Freeza was flying,so he that's why he could sense him and Vegeta couldn't sense final Form freeza moving not flying.

Dude just say thta you can't accept that the z-fighters can move FTL and we will stop this worthless argument.
 
buutenks said:
Dude Freeza was flying,so he that's why he could sense him and Vegeta couldn't sense final Form freeza moving not flying.

Dude just say thta you can't accept that the z-fighters can move FTL and we will stop this worthless argument.
I am actually enyoing this argument.

Maybe because Bejiita wasent as strong as Fruiza, his mind was infernor to Fruiza's.
Think about it; Gokou could sense Fruiza's level as a SSJ.

Everyone on earth could sense Fruiza's spaceship aproching (If Fruiza was faster than his ship he would fly right?)
 
SSJ4_Mikael said:
I am actually enyoing this argument.

Maybe because Bejiita wasent as strong as Fruiza, his mind was infernor to Fruiza's.
Think about it; Gokou could sense Fruiza's level as a SSJ.

Everyone on earth could sense Fruiza's spaceship aproching (If Fruiza was faster than his ship he would fly right?)

Dude I said that he can fight FTL,not fly.

And here is what I think about Vegetto:
Speed:He moves slower then a 90 year old man
Strength:He can't lift 1 kg
Durability:He's less durable then a human cell.

Do you agree?
 
buutenks said:
Dude I said that he can fight FTL,not fly.

And here is what I think about Vegetto:
Speed:He moves slower then a 90 year old man
Strength:He can't lift 1 kg
Durability:He's less durable then a human cell.

Do you agree?
Bejiito sensed Boo-han when they fought (when he realeses the smoke).
If they can move so fast in a battle (they dodge punches and so) than how come they are not even close to it when they want to fly a short distance.

Agree with Bejiito can/ can't do that?
No I'm not.
 
SSJ4_Mikael said:
Bejiito sensed Boo-han when they fought (when he realeses the smoke).
If they can move so fast in a battle (they dodge punches and so) than how come they are not even close to it when they want to fly a short distance.

Dude whatever they can't fight nor fly at the sped of light,they fight as fast as they fly,which means that Buu can't defeat kid Goku.
So yeah Kid Goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>Buu,do you agree?

I mean this is what this thread is about,to show thta the z-fighters don't move FTL,right?That's why you made it,right?Because thta's what you're doing right now.
 
buutenks said:
Dude whatever they can't fight nor fly at the sped of light,they fight as fast as they fly,which means that Buu can't defeat kid Goku.
So yeah Kid Goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>Buu,do you agree?

I mean this is what this thread is about,to show thta the z-fighters don't move FTL,right?That's why you made it,right?Because thta's what you're doing right now.
Now why would chibi Gokou be faster than Boo?
chibi Goku = Kamesennin
Kamesennin moved 100m on 5,6 seconds which would be about a minute per kilometer.
Now do you realize that the speed of light in vaccum is 360 000km/ second.
Now do you realize that that is: 20,16 million times faster.
When Goku as an adult struggeld to lift 40 ton's while he as a kid could lift 1 ton.

I made this for the entertainment of the dicussion.
I state my opinions and I show the proof that backs it up, and I expect to you to do the same.
This is not made to piss someone off.
 
SSJ4_Mikael said:
Now why would chibi Gokou be faster than Boo?
chibi Goku = Kamesennin
Kamesennin moved 100m on 5,6 seconds which would be about a minute per kilometer.
Now do you realize that the speed of light in vaccum is 360 000km/ second.
Now do you realize that that is: 20,16 million times faster.
When Goku as an adult struggeld to lift 40 ton's while he as a kid could lift 1 ton.

So he got 40 times stronger,that's pretty low.
And aster Roshi moves faster then the eye could see and whatever I don't care.And Raditz catched a bullet,he went 4 km in one second,that's way faster then Buu,so give it up,Raditz>>>>>>>>>>>>Buu,Buu didn't do any feast to put him above Raditz.

Tell me waht feats does Buu have that put's him above Raditz?
 
buutenks said:
So he got 40 times stronger,that's pretty low.
And aster Roshi moves faster then the eye could see and whatever I don't care.And Raditz catched a bullet,he went 4 km in one second,that's way faster then Buu,so give it up,Raditz>>>>>>>>>>>>Buu,Buu didn't do any feast to put him above Raditz.

Tell me waht feats does Buu have that put's him above Raditz?
Maybe the destruction of a planet.
4 km in a second was that even stated?
40 times stronger physicaly seems ok, since the chi (in Goku) incressed a million times. But the strenght didnt.

I Guess Toriyama Akira didnt thought so much about the speed.
That's why you can find some flaw's.
 
SSJ4_Mikael said:
Maybe the destruction of a planet.
4 km in a second was that even stated?
40 times stronger physicaly seems ok, since the chi (in Goku) incressed a million times. But the strenght didnt.

I Guess Toriyama Akira didnt thought so much about the speed.
That's why you can find some flaw's.

No,Toriyama didn't care about anything,dbz is the most inconsistent anime.

What do you mean planet busting?When did Buu show thta he can destroy a planet?From what I know kid Buu destroyed planet earth but kid buu is another version,even though he's weaker,it doesn't mean that Super Buu(with Gohan can destroy a planet)

These are the characters that can destroy planets:
Freeza(only through the core)
Super Buu(with Gotenks)
Kid Buu

and that's it.

And thses are the moon busters:
Piccolo and Master Roshi.
The others are only nuke level because non of them destroyed a planet,which means that they can't.
 
buutenks said:
No,Toriyama didn't care about anything,dbz is the most inconsistent anime.

What do you mean planet busting?When did Buu show thta he can destroy a planet?From what I know kid Buu destroyed planet earth but kid buu is another version,even though he's weaker,it doesn't mean that Super Buu(with Gohan can destroy a planet)

These are the characters that can destroy planets:
Freeza(only through the core)
Super Buu(with Gotenks)
Kid Buu

and that's it.

And thses are the moon busters:
Piccolo and Master Roshi.
The others are only nuke level because non of them destroyed a planet,which means that they can't.
chou Boo-han:
*aiming his pam towards the earth*
Now I will destroy all planets.
*Snap, Goku rips out Gohan inside Boo's body*
ect.

Toriyama didnt actually create the anime, he's just the author of the DBZ manga, Toei is the creator of the anime, they based it on Toriyama's manga thats all.

I can metion a couple of moe character than said that they could destroy planets:
Bejiita, a couple of times if I might add.
Gotenkusu (when trying to kill Shin Boo, Pikkoro asks if he is trying to blow up the planet)
Goku (Warp-kamehameha could desrtoy the earth)
ect.
 
SSJ4_Mikael said:
chou Boo-han:
*aiming his pam towards the earth*
Now I will destroy all planets.
*Snap, Goku rips out Gohan inside Boo's body*
ect.

Toriyama didnt actually create the anime, he's just the author of the DBZ manga, Toei is the creator of the anime, they based it on Toriyama's manga thats all.

I can metion a couple of moe character than said that they could destroy planets:
Bejiita, a couple of times if I might add.
Gotenkusu (when trying to kill Shin Boo, Pikkoro asks if he is trying to blow up the planet)
Goku (Warp-kamehameha could desrtoy the earth)
ect.

Dude I know thta thye can destroy planets,saiyan saga Vegeta was a planet buster,I was just fooling wiht you and with the whole raditz>>>>>>Buu thing too.
But I still think that Freeza was moving FTL because Vegeta couldn't sense him and you can't change that because it's my opinion.
 
buutenks said:
Dude I know thta thye can destroy planets,saiyan saga Vegeta was a planet buster,I was just fooling wiht you and with the whole raditz>>>>>>Buu thing too.
But I still think that Freeza was moving FTL because Vegeta couldn't sense him and you can't change that because it's my opinion.
And open mind can change its opinion...
You've noticed how many times I changed?

I say that people have sensed far faster beings through-out the DBU.
Goku SSJ sensed Fruiza...
 
SSJ4_Mikael said:
And open mind can change its opinion...
You've noticed how many times I changed?

I say that people have sensed far faster beings through-out the DBU.
Goku SSJ sensed Fruiza...

That's because he's fast as him,so please Freeza and above can fight at speeds FTL and ssj Gotenks went in one second because saiyans can't breath in space,so he must've made his trip in less then a second,now can you accept that they can fly and fight at speeds FTL?And the thing with Buu is for plot extantion,you know for Goku and Vegeta to have time to fuse,if Buu would have gotten there in one second it would have been the end of the show.
 
buutenks said:
That's because he's fast as him,so please Freeza and above can fight at speeds FTL and ssj Gotenks went in one second because saiyans can't breath in space,so he must've made his trip in less then a second,now can you accept that they can fly and fight at speeds FTL?And the thing with Buu is for plot extantion,you know for Goku and Vegeta to have time to fuse,if Buu would have gotten there in one second it would have been the end of the show.
So you say you have to be in the speed of light speed to sence a being who can fly at lightspeed?
But Fruiza got a kick in the face of Goku (pre-kaioken).
 
SSJ4_Mikael said:
So you say you have to be in the speed of light speed to sence a being who can fly at lightspeed?
But Fruiza got a kick in the face of Goku (pre-kaioken).

Dude Goku's faster the light as well.Like I said you bring worthless points that don't prove anything,so if you want you could believe that Vegetto moves with 3 m/h,because I don't care.
 
buutenks said:
Dude Goku fast faster the light as well.Like I said you bring worthless points that don't prove anything,so if you want you could believe that Vegetto moves with 3 m/h,because I don't care.
I never claimed anything like that... I have two words for you "check" and "mate".
 
SSJ4_Mikael said:
I never claimed anything like that... I have two words for you "check" and "mate".

Whatever dude.
 
And they move at light speed because Toriyama said in an interview that the z-fighters move from super speed to light speed.

I proved that they can and Toriyama said that they can move FTL.
And ssj gotenks went in one second because he can't breath in space,which means that he must've made his trip in less thne a second.So you are wrong again.

Vegeta could sense the Ginew force's ki who were way stronger then him,yet he couldn't sense Freeza,what does that tell us?That Freeza can move FTL,so every point that you made was wrong.
 
buutenks said:
And they move at light speed because Toriyama said in an interview that the z-fighters move from super speed to light speed.

I proved that they can and Toriyama said that they can move FTL.
And ssj gotenks went in one second because he can't breath in space,which means that he must've made his trip in less thne a second.So you are wrong again.

Vegeta could sense the Ginew force's ki who were way stronger then him,yet he couldn't sense Freeza,what does that tell us?That Freeza can move FTL,so every point that you made was wrong.
1, Give us a link of the interview.
2, No you havent proved anything since you didnt brought proof, just a statement.
3, No it tell us that Fruiza can surpress his chi.
 
SSJ4_Mikael said:
1, Give us a link of the interview.
2, No you havent proved anything since you didnt brought proof, just a statement.
3, No it tell us that Fruiza can surpress his chi.

1.Here:Akira Toriyama Interview by Nirazaki Tihashiberi
Super Otaku Magazine Issue #297

Toriyama-san has agreed to answer some questions for us today. Much thanks to Toriyama-san after the craze on the Majin Buu period. (Do note that this was not a cover story, and thus, short).

Nirazaki: Many fans have given positive feedback over the Majin Buu period. The inclusion of fusion was an unexpected twist. What gave you the idea?

Toriyama-san: Well in order to have a villain with so much strength, you need someone around that can rival him. Majin Buu is incredibly strong. Its not easy to create a character that can keep up. So I thought of making the characters fuse to create new characters without taking the focus off the main characters.

Nirazaki: There have been many changes since the Saiya-jins came to earth. Do you ever think about the progress?

Toriyama-san: Yes I do. Doragonboru has come a long way. They went from running at super speed to moving at the speed of light! (Laughs)

Nirazaki: There was uproar over the rematch between Son Goku and Bejita. Were you planning this the entire time?

Toriyama-san: (Laughs) It was more of a crowd pleaser. Son Gokuu and Bejita didnt have the opportunity to fight in the Seru period, and with a new saga to start with, it would not be hard to work in that kind of battle.

Nirazaki: Youve been telling everyone how this is the end. Will Doragonboru really end after Majin Buu?

Toriyama-san: Yes. Ive put so much time on Doragonboru I cant do much else. I never expected Doragonboru to be this long in the first place. I think its been concluded on a high note. After all, if I had my way, Id of ended the manga after the Freeza period! (Laughs)

Nirazaki: You like to laugh about this a lot. Will parting with Doragonboru be difficult?

Toriyama-san: On one side, Im relieved. On the other side, its like seeing a child move away.

Nirazaki: I know that a lot of people want to hear more about fusion. With Gotenkusu now in the story, will he play that big of a role? And most of all, is he stronger than Son Goku himself?

Toriyama-san: Well I dont know yet. Ive planned some things with Gotenkusu, but he wont be the focus of the entire saga. Youll see as things develop. As for their strength, Gotenkusu is a little bit stronger, but you wouldnt notice a difference. Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist! (Smiles) But Gotenkusu will not be the only person to go higher than son Goku.

Nirazaki: What does that last part mean?

Toriyama-san: Youll find out.

Nirazaki: Ill remember that! One last question.

Toriyama-san: Make it good, you wont get a second chance! Kidding, Ill see you again.

Nirazaki: Is Son Goku dead forever? He has come back before, but it looks like hes out of lives.

Toriyama-san: I dont want to shift the focus, so I have to keep certain things close to their roots. Son Goku will have his day, but right now its up to "Super Gotenkusu!".


2.ssj Gotenks went in one second because he can't breath in space,you made this thread to prove that the z-fighters don't move at light speed,didn't you?If you ignore this and still say that ssj Gotenks didn't went around the world in one second then you just hate dbz so much,that you can't accept that they move at light speed,so you try with all your power to disprove any feat.And this is the truth because that's what you're doing.

Why do you want to be so sure if the z-fighters can fly at light speed?Is it that important?I showed you some feats,there aren't 100% sure but close,so why can't you accept it?It's like dbz is your whole life,so you must know everything about it.

3.Look at this: http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/6228/resdb260737iz.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4135/resdb260748ri.jpg

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/655/resdb260758pi.jpg

Vegeta couldn't sense where Freeza was moving,but could sense the kis of others that were way stronger then him and that were in ships that were moving FTL,so that proves that Freeza was faster then those ships because Vegeta couldn't sense where he was moving.
I know that you think that Vegeta couldn't sense Freeza because he was stronger then him,but so were the Ginew force,yet he could still sense them in those ships and he could still sense them moving and flying,yet he couldn't sense Freeza moving,that tells us that he was moving faster then those ships.

Krillin and Gohan sensed those ships too,yet they still couldn't sense Freeza.
So pleae stopi with the "you haven't brought any proof" because you haven't brought any proof,you made this thread to prove that they can't move at light speed,not to prove that they can.

And here I'll say it again so you can understand:
If someone can sense someone's ki that is way stronger then him,in some ships that fly FTL but he can't sense someone's ki when he moves,it means that he was moving faster then those ships.
Got it.How hard is it to understand?
 
SSJ4_Mikael said:
3, No it tell us that Fruiza can surpress his chi.

And dude,the Ginew force members were all(except Guldo) way stronger then Vegeta,yet he could still sense them moving and flying,but he couldn't sense Freeza moving,how hard is it to understand?
 
buutenks said:
1.Here:Akira Toriyama Interview by Nirazaki Tihashiberi
Super Otaku Magazine Issue #297

Toriyama-san has agreed to answer some questions for us today. Much thanks to Toriyama-san after the craze on the Majin Buu period. (Do note that this was not a cover story, and thus, short).

Nirazaki: Many fans have given positive feedback over the Majin Buu period. The inclusion of fusion was an unexpected twist. What gave you the idea?

Toriyama-san: Well in order to have a villain with so much strength, you need someone around that can rival him. Majin Buu is incredibly strong. Its not easy to create a character that can keep up. So I thought of making the characters fuse to create new characters without taking the focus off the main characters.

Nirazaki: There have been many changes since the Saiya-jins came to earth. Do you ever think about the progress?

Toriyama-san: Yes I do. Doragonboru has come a long way. They went from running at super speed to moving at the speed of light! (Laughs)

Nirazaki: There was uproar over the rematch between Son Goku and Bejita. Were you planning this the entire time?

Toriyama-san: (Laughs) It was more of a crowd pleaser. Son Gokuu and Bejita didnt have the opportunity to fight in the Seru period, and with a new saga to start with, it would not be hard to work in that kind of battle.

Nirazaki: Youve been telling everyone how this is the end. Will Doragonboru really end after Majin Buu?

Toriyama-san: Yes. Ive put so much time on Doragonboru I cant do much else. I never expected Doragonboru to be this long in the first place. I think its been concluded on a high note. After all, if I had my way, Id of ended the manga after the Freeza period! (Laughs)

Nirazaki: You like to laugh about this a lot. Will parting with Doragonboru be difficult?

Toriyama-san: On one side, Im relieved. On the other side, its like seeing a child move away.

Nirazaki: I know that a lot of people want to hear more about fusion. With Gotenkusu now in the story, will he play that big of a role? And most of all, is he stronger than Son Goku himself?

Toriyama-san: Well I dont know yet. Ive planned some things with Gotenkusu, but he wont be the focus of the entire saga. Youll see as things develop. As for their strength, Gotenkusu is a little bit stronger, but you wouldnt notice a difference. Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist! (Smiles) But Gotenkusu will not be the only person to go higher than son Goku.

Nirazaki: What does that last part mean?

Toriyama-san: Youll find out.

Nirazaki: Ill remember that! One last question.

Toriyama-san: Make it good, you wont get a second chance! Kidding, Ill see you again.

Nirazaki: Is Son Goku dead forever? He has come back before, but it looks like hes out of lives.

Toriyama-san: I dont want to shift the focus, so I have to keep certain things close to their roots. Son Goku will have his day, but right now its up to "Super Gotenkusu!".


2.ssj Gotenks went in one second because he can't breath in space,you made this thread to prove that the z-fighters don't move at light speed,didn't you?If you ignore this and still say that ssj Gotenks didn't went around the world in one second then you just hate dbz so much,that you can't accept that they move at light speed,so you try with all your power to disprove any feat.And this is the truth because that's what you're doing.

Why do you want to be so sure if the z-fighters can fly at light speed?Is it that important?I showed you some feats,there aren't 100% sure but close,so why can't you accept it?It's like dbz is your whole life,so you must know everything about it.

3.Look at this: http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/6228/resdb260737iz.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4135/resdb260748ri.jpg

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/655/resdb260758pi.jpg

Vegeta couldn't sense where Freeza was moving,but could sense the kis of others that were way stronger then him and that were in ships that were moving FTL,so that proves that Freeza was faster then those ships because Vegeta couldn't sense where he was moving.
I know that you think that Vegeta couldn't sense Freeza because he was stronger then him,but so were the Ginew force,yet he could still sense them in those ships and he could still sense them moving and flying,yet he couldn't sense Freeza moving,that tells us that he was moving faster then those ships.

Krillin and Gohan sensed those ships too,yet they still couldn't sense Freeza.
So pleae stopi with the "you haven't brought any proof" because you haven't brought any proof,you made this thread to prove that they can't move at light speed,not to prove that they can.

And here I'll say it again so you can understand:
If someone can sense someone's ki that is way stronger then him,in some ships that fly FTL but he can't sense someone's ki when he moves,it means that he was moving faster then those ships.
Got it.How hard is it to understand?
1, Well done, it would actually prove that you were right, there is one flaw though. When you link an interview or any other statement in the manga, you have to actually give a link in a PDF or to a page, now I done some research, and I couldent find this interview on any other places than som other forum's, this means that some could have just made it up.
If you are able please link us the interview.

2a, Well that is true but I think he is just at lightspeed, since he didnt actually made more laps than necesserly.
b, Well this is a forum that will suport future arguments when it comes to battles.
For example; Pre-crisis Superman vs. chou Gohan.
guy1: Superman would win since Gohan couldent keep up with him, since he aint able to surpass lightspeed like Superman.
guy2: Read this thread that suports the fact that he could: The speed of the Z-shenshi.
The forums arent made for flaming people or make them look like fool's they are simply made up for debates.

3, Still that actually doesnt prove anything. Just that Fruiza was faster than Bejiita's eye. He was new when it came to sensing chi, and he didnt use it in battle (since you have to focus to sense it), he simply used his eye's. Like Goku and Kamesennin were faster than the eye's of a human, and FpSSJ Gokou and Seru was faster than the eye's of the other z-shenshi.

The only actually semi-proof you ever brought was that interview, and it just suport that everyone above SSJ Gotenkusu is faster than light, not that Fruiza is. Still you need to link the interview to actually prove it (it can have been edited made up by someone else).
- No hard feelings though.
 
SSJ4_Mikael said:
1, Well done, it would actually prove that you were right, there is one flaw though. When you link an interview or any other statement in the manga, you have to actually give a link in a PDF or to a page, now I done some research, and I couldent find this interview on any other places than som other forum's, this means that some could have just made it up.
If you are able please link us the interview.

2a, Well that is true but I think he is just at lightspeed, since he didnt actually made more laps than necesserly.
b, Well this is a forum that will suport future arguments when it comes to battles.
For example; Pre-crisis Superman vs. chou Gohan.
guy1: Superman would win since Gohan couldent keep up with him, since he aint able to surpass lightspeed like Superman.
guy2: Read this thread that suports the fact that he could: The speed of the Z-shenshi.
The forums arent made for flaming people or make them look like fool's they are simply made up for debates.

3, Still that actually doesnt prove anything. Just that Fruiza was faster than Bejiita's eye. He was new when it came to sensing chi, and he didnt use it in battle (since you have to focus to sense it), he simply used his eye's. Like Goku and Kamesennin were faster than the eye's of a human, and FpSSJ Gokou and Seru was faster than the eye's of the other z-shenshi.

The only actually semi-proof you ever brought was that interview, and it just suport that everyone above SSJ Gotenkusu is faster than light, not that Fruiza is. Still you need to link the interview to actually prove it (it can have been edited made up by someone else).
- No hard feelings though.

That interview is real,one of the members of the CBR forums saw a magazine with it,it was very old,very very old and the manger said that he'll call him when he finds it.
It is a very old magazine(or whatever it is),Toriyama didn't even made the Buu saga,so it's probably over 16 years old.
And what is there is the truth.
'And the thing wiht Freeza proves that he was moving faster then those ships,Vegeta could sense ki yet he couldn't sense Freeza's moving ki but could sense the ki of some guys way stronger then him,that were in ships that were flying FTL,so Freeza ca move that fast in battle not flying.
Piccolo,Krillin and Gohan could sense ships moving FTL,yet they couldn't sense Freeza,o that proves that he's faster then htose ships,so I don't care if you accept this,most members do,even those that don't really care much about dbz.
 
There is a big gasp between SSJ Gotenkusu and Fruiza, when he makes 6 laps around the earth he proves that he is not faster than light, he is as fast as light.
(actually it is supose to be 9 lap's but he flied a bit over the ground so 6 lap's should do it)

Those ships is not faster than light, think about it, with Bulma's fastest ship it would take about 4 339 years to reach Namek and with Kami's ship it would take 30 day's. I doubt the humans of earth could go a 10th of lightspeed.
 
SSJ4_Mikael said:
There is a big gasp between SSJ Gotenkusu and Fruiza, when he makes 6 laps around the earth he proves that he is not faster than light, he is as fast as light.
(actually it is supose to be 9 lap's but he flied a bit over the ground so 6 lap's should do it)

Those ships is not faster than light, think about it, with Bulma's fastest ship it would take about 4 339 years to reach Namek and with Kami's ship it would take 30 day's. I doubt the humans of earth could go a 10th of lightspeed.

And a saiyan space pod or a Freeza space pod it takes 6 days,thats 14 times the speed of light.
And the Ginew force was in those kind of ships.
 

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