Homecoming The Spider-Man Skepticism Thread

[Idea]

Villain overload potentially as others have discussed and maybe Michael Keaton might be a hard sell as a villain (although he seemed good in the trailer). Other than that, the trailer was one of the best trailers I have seen. My dad agrees it looks good.

 

[stillanerd]

Okay, given some of what we've now learned about Spider-Man: Homecoming this week thanks to a flood of stories from various entertainment website who've been allowed on the set last August--which I talk about here: Spider-Man: Homecoming Details From Set Visits Released
--I'm now getting more than a little apprehensive about the kind of Spider-Man film we might end up getting. Especially the stuff about the

Spoiler

Spider-Man suit having it's own version of JARVIS

. Granted, I realize this is an adaptation of Spider-Man, not a direct translation, and that Sony has to make this film different from other movies. But even so, I think in their quest to make the film "different" than the other Spider-Man movies, they're really running the risk of making this seem like Spider-Man in name only.

 

[harryoscop]

Guess who's back? Back again! Tell a friend!


But in all seriousness, I was wrong about certain things regarding this movie. Things that I'm happy to have had disproven. If anybody cares (which I'm sure most ppl don't) my opinion on Homecoming is a bit more optimistic than it was the last time I was here on the forum. But other highly questionable things have come out of those set reports & and I understand other ppl are tired of hearing my negative opinion. So I'll be camping out here in the scepticism thread.

Fair game, I think.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Welcome back.

 

[Mysteryman]

Guess who's back? Back again! Tell a friend!


But in all seriousness, I was wrong about certain things regarding this movie. Things that I'm happy to have had disproven. If anybody cares (which I'm sure most ppl don't) my opinion on Homecoming is a bit more optimistic than it was the last time I was here on the forum. But other highly questionable things have come out of those set reports & and I understand other ppl are tired of hearing my negative opinion. So I'll be camping out here in the scepticism thread.

Fair game, I think.

What were the things that you were wrong about and what are the highly questionable things that still bother you?

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Guess who's back? Back again! Tell a friend!


But in all seriousness, I was wrong about certain things regarding this movie. Things that I'm happy to have had disproven. If anybody cares (which I'm sure most ppl don't) my opinion on Homecoming is a bit more optimistic than it was the last time I was here on the forum. But other highly questionable things have come out of those set reports & and I understand other ppl are tired of hearing my negative opinion. So I'll be camping out here in the scepticism thread.


Fair game, I think.

Nice to have you back!

I never had a problem with you or thought you were a troll. Yeah, things got bogged down from time to time.
I think my main point to you was not to jump to conclusions when we didn't have all the facts. I mainly was trying to alleviate your fears. Believe me, if a lot of what you thought turned out true, I would have been upset as well. I'm happy that some of your concerns have been disproven.

Again, concerns are fine. I have some myself. Just don't get ahead of yourself and think things are confirmed when they are not.

Again, welcome back!

 

[harryoscop]

Thanks PBP & Gnome

What were the things that you were wrong about and what are the highly questionable things that still bother you?

1. Uncle Ben not existing in the MCU. I will admit it was ridiculous to assume he wouldn't exist in the MCU because he wasn't directly mentioned but I'm glad Peter & May do have a discussion about him in the movie. Watts reasoning for Ben not physically appearing does irritate me but at this point I'm just glad to know "The Origin story has not been changed from the one everybody knows".


2. The Daily Bugle being completely excluded & not existing in the MCU.


3. Midtown being a Private School.


4. Toomes' character being INO. I do appreciate how they've translated the basic idea/concept of Toomes' comic origin to the MCU version: Business man runs a company, gets it taken away from him, feels like the victim & wants revenge. Although, thankfully, Toomes did not build the suit with the intent of going after Stark- instead it's to quickly get to battle ravaged locations & scavenge any leftover tech before the Damage Control can get to it.


What still bothers me:

Spoiler

1. Stark's heavy involvement with the plot. All of the major plot points seem to be connecting to him: The first act Peter coming back from the trip & mourning because he wants to be with Stark & the Avengers. Toomes getting the rug pulled out from under him because of Stark's company-- Toomes, Schultz & Mason all hating Stark-- Peter getting help from Ganke to remove Stark's um, "training wheels" lock he put on the suit-- Peter discovering the tracking device Stark put in it which 'causes him to want to go after Toomes on the Ferry-- Stark taking the suit away, effectively kicking off the third act of the movie-- etc ect. He's too involved in the plot.


2. Ganke masquerading as Ned


3. All of the tech in Spider-Man's suit. There's zero reason for him to have a J.A.R.V.I.S. A.I implemented into his suit, That's why he has this thing called "SPIDER-Sense" I hate how he's going to have info spoon-fed to him like Stark does in his battles. Not to mention all of the other ridiculous things embedded in the suit that do not fit Spidey. He's basically Iron Man-lite now, wearing an Iron Man suit without armor and artillery. I wouldn't mind if it was a temporary suit like the Iron Spider but it's his MAIN SUIT!

Points 1 & 3 CAN be fixed if Peter distances himself from Stark in the end of the movie. I'm praying that the excessive technology in Spider-Man's suit was a conscious decision on Feige & etc's part. They know it's too Iron Man-y & the point is Peter realizing he doesn't need all of the tech & not going back to it at the end of the movie. In the end, I hope he gets his own suit. Either with Stark resources he makes a new, more classic design OR he makes changes to the Stark suit himself (with Ganke's help) to make it his own & not Stark's. That's what I'm hoping for now.

 

[Matt Parker]

While I may disagree with you Harry, I'm glad to see that you are more positive after the set visits. It's cool of you to admit that you have been proven wrong. I agree about the teched out suit, so we'll see.

 

[harryoscop]

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Welcome back, harry. I don't agree with many of your opinions and even found some of them ridiculous, but you do make some good points and have been welcoming to new users moreso than anyone else in my opinion. Good to have ya back.

 

[SpideyJJ]

He's back!!!!!!

 

[AvegningSpider]

Guess who's back? Back again! Tell a friend!


But in all seriousness, I was wrong about certain things regarding this movie. Things that I'm happy to have had disproven. If anybody cares (which I'm sure most ppl don't) my opinion on Homecoming is a bit more optimistic than it was the last time I was here on the forum. But other highly questionable things have come out of those set reports & and I understand other ppl are tired of hearing my negative opinion. So I'll be camping out here in the scepticism thread.

Fair game, I think.

Welcome back, you menace

 

[spiderral]

You're not alone in your skepticisms about the film harry!

This is surprisingly the least excited about a Spider-Man film I've ever been because of how much a departure (based on the trailers and reports about the film) it already feels like from the Spider-Man we all know and love.

I'm hoping viewing the film in July will prove me wrong, but my expectations are really low at this point and as others have said, it feels like "Homecoming" will only really be a Spider-Man movie in name only, which is ironic considering the hype of having Spider-Man in the hands of Marvel Studios, who are praised for the way they've been handling all of their characters thus far.

 

[harryoscop]

You're not alone in your skepticisms about the film harry!

This is surprisingly the least excited about a Spider-Man film I've ever been because of how much a departure (based on the trailers and reports about the film) it already feels like from the Spider-Man we all know and love.

I'm hoping viewing the film in July will prove me wrong, but my expectations are really low at this point and as others have said, it feels like "Homecoming" will only really be a Spider-Man movie in name only, which is ironic considering the hype of having Spider-Man in the hands of Marvel Studios, who are praised for the way they've been handling all of their characters thus far.

Can't disagree with you, man. It's a by-product of the people involved in the movie being obsessed with making everything different from what came before. (They literally said they want "every element to be fresh & new, nothing from the previous movies except May & Flash only because they're completely different) It's a foolish, terrible decision imo because it strips this movie of many of the iconic staples of the Spider-Man franchise. And not just that, it imbues it with things that should not be there. Like Spidey's Iron Man fabric suit, Stark's heavy involvement, Ganke etc.

Like you, I'm holding onto hope that this movie surprises us.

Also nice to see you around. I miss those days when everybody was filled with hope & optimism for the direction Marvel would take Spidey. Those fan-casting days were fun

Also, let me say this about Carroll's ridiculous reasoning for the Bugle not being in the movie...

Spoiler

He doesn't want Peter to be an overachiever? What? When he's in a science high-school that requires super high test scores & an advanced, complex understanding of science aka physics, quantum mechanics & technology etc to get in, wouldn't that be overachieving? Getting a super-high tech suit from Tony fricking Stark, travelling the world with him in a jet & having big brother/little brother relationship with him (one of the richest guys in the MCU) why isn't that considered "Overachieving" by Carroll? Why can't he understand that reason Peter got job at the Bugle in the first place was because he was STRUGGLING to make ends meet? That is not "overachieving" that is barely getting by. Also newsflash Carroll: High-school students REGULARLY get part-time jobs. It's not something that is exclusively linked to going to College


Seriously, everything this guy says gets under my skin

 

[Zant]

Who is this Eric Carroll guy anyways? Never heard of him. Is he part of the SONY camp (Pascal) or the Marvel camp (Feige).

 

[2kt09]

Who is this Eric Carroll guy anyways? Never heard of him. Is he part of the SONY camp (Pascal) or the Marvel camp (Feige).

Co-producer of Agent Carter and this flick.

 

[Zant]

Co-producer of Agent Carter and this flick.

Hmm.. A bit random, cool, I guess.

 

[harryoscop]

Another annoying thing Carroll said:

And one of the ideas is that when he does this [wrist-flick movement], he can adjust the spray, and he can even scroll through different web settings, like spinning web, web ball, ricochet web... you know, all of the stuff we can see him do in the comics, Tony has built into this. Long story short, we tried to look through the comics and pull out all of the sort of fun and wacky things that Steve [Ditko] did, which seemed even harder to explain when he built it in his own bedroom.

Sigh...

 

[PeterBenParker]

You're not alone in your skepticisms about the film harry!

This is surprisingly the least excited about a Spider-Man film I've ever been because of how much a departure (based on the trailers and reports about the film) it already feels like from the Spider-Man we all know and love.

I'm hoping viewing the film in July will prove me wrong, but my expectations are really low at this point and as others have said, it feels like "Homecoming" will only really be a Spider-Man movie in name only, which is ironic considering the hype of having Spider-Man in the hands of Marvel Studios, who are praised for the way they've been handling all of their characters thus far.

It's beyond ironic, actually.

They had the perfect opportunity to show everyone why they were right with wanting Peter/Spidey in the MCU because their take was gonna be the take but nope! Bunch of deviations, unnecessary additions, etc. have this feeling so far from traditional Spider-Man that the only way I'm giving the film the benefit of the doubt is treating it like an off-world take.

Shame, but also not too surprising given how Marvel's been treating the character as a whole for a while.

Thank goodness for Conway and Stegman.

 

[X Knight]

You're not alone in your skepticisms about the film harry!

This is surprisingly the least excited about a Spider-Man film I've ever been because of how much a departure (based on the trailers and reports about the film) it already feels like from the Spider-Man we all know and love.

I'm hoping viewing the film in July will prove me wrong, but my expectations are really low at this point and as others have said, it feels like "Homecoming" will only really be a Spider-Man movie in name only, which is ironic considering the hype of having Spider-Man in the hands of Marvel Studios, who are praised for the way they've been handling all of their characters thus far.

Can't disagree with you, man. It's a by-product of the people involved in the movie being obsessed with making everything different from what came before. (They literally said they want "every element to be fresh & new, nothing from the previous movies except May & Flash only because they're completely different) It's a foolish, terrible decision imo because it strips this movie of many of the iconic staples of the Spider-Man franchise. And not just that, it imbues it with things that should not be there. Like Spidey's Iron Man fabric suit, Stark's heavy involvement, Ganke etc.

Like you, I'm holding onto hope that this movie surprises us.

Also nice to see you around. I miss those days when everybody was filled with hope & optimism for the direction Marvel would take Spidey. Those fan-casting days were fun

Also, let me say this about Carroll's ridiculous reasoning for the Bugle not being in the movie...

Spoiler

He doesn't want Peter to be an overachiever? What? When he's in a science high-school that requires super high test scores & an advanced, complex understanding of science aka physics, quantum mechanics & technology etc to get in, wouldn't that be overachieving? Getting a super-high tech suit from Tony fricking Stark, travelling the world with him in a jet & having big brother/little brother relationship with him (one of the richest guys in the MCU) why isn't that considered "Overachieving" by Carroll? Why can't he understand that reason Peter got job at the Bugle in the first place was because he was STRUGGLING to make ends meet? That is not "overachieving" that is barely getting by. Also newsflash Carroll: High-school students REGULARLY get part-time jobs. It's not something that is exclusively linked to going to College


Seriously, everything this guy says gets under my skin

It's beyond ironic, actually.

They had the perfect opportunity to show everyone why they were right with wanting Peter/Spidey in the MCU because their take was gonna be the take but nope! Bunch of deviations, unnecessary additions, etc. have this feeling so far from traditional Spider-Man that the only way I'm giving the film the benefit of the doubt is treating it like an off-world take.

Shame, but also not too surprising given how Marvel's been treating the character as a whole for a while.

I agree with you guys.

I think back to how insanely hyped I was leading up to the 1st Raimi film, and then for the sequels.

I was less excited for TASM, and then actually seeing it killed my interest in TASM 2. So, that became the 1st Spidey film I skipped in the theater. Though I later watched TASM 2 on DVD and actually liked it better than I thought.

Homecoming could be the 2nd Spidey film I skip in the theater. Aside from the initial casting of Tom Holland, most of what I've seen and read and heard about this has left me confused, bewildered, scratching my head, and overall wondering wtf they are thinking.

And that has all left me decidedly VERY disinterested in this film. The final nail in the coffin will be what they do with the Michelle/possibly MJ character. We have yet to see a true, accurate portrayal of MJ in the films. I was hoping for a more faithful adaptation in the MCU version of Spidey. but if they do indeed go with such a radically different take on the character, that's when I will totally check out. Add to that all the other changes that make this feel like Spidey in name only.

 

[Web-Head]

That's been my biggest gripe, the whole let's change things basically just to be different and set ourselves a part. I get not wanting to use the Osborns, Oscorp or even the Bugle right away. But everything else? Seems like change for the sake of change.

 

[X Knight]

^ yep.

and it's not just changing one or 2 minor characters or a few things, which is fine.

they are practically making wholesale changes, especially to the HS cast. I mean, that supporting group of characters is practically unrecognizable to me.

and now all of this stuff with Stark and how that's potentially taking away from Peter's own genius and smarts.

 

[X Knight]

Another annoying thing Carroll said:


Sigh...

see that's the thing. Tony built this. Tony built that. It's like Peter is suddenly Bond and Stark is his Q.

a happy medium or alternative to Peter "coming up with that stuff in his bedroom" would be to have Stark let Peter use his labs/resources at Stark industries, and Peter comes up with all this stuff ( maybe with some help from Stark ).

but still make Peter the brains behind it, not Stark.

 

[harryoscop]

That's been my biggest gripe, the whole let's change things basically just to be different and set ourselves a part. I get not wanting to use the Osborns, Oscorp or even the Bugle right away. But everything else? Seems like change for the sake of change.

^ yep.

and it's not just changing one or 2 minor characters or a few things, which is fine.

they are practically making wholesale changes, especially to the HS cast. I mean, that supporting group of characters is practically unrecognizable to me.

and now all of this stuff with Stark and how that's potentially taking away from Peter's own genius and smarts.

Indeed. And then there are more changes to new elements being brought in from the comics like the webs & gadgets Peter made all coming from Stark, Ned Leeds being turned into Ganke, Jason, Sally & Tiny all from the original comics being in this movie as young geniuses. It's almost like Marvel/Carroll/Watts thinks they're doing something by slapping random names from the comics onto their original/hybrid creations. Like Fans will be happy just because they "remember that name" from the comics! Carroll further demonstrated this rhetoric when he praised Shocker's costume for having "isolated yellow sleeves & a gauntlet like the comics" like that's suppose to make fans happy because it has a slight nod to Herman's classic costume.

see that's the thing. Tony built this. Tony built that. It's like Peter is suddenly Bond and Stark is his Q.


a happy medium or alternative to Peter "coming up with that stuff in his bedroom" would be to have Stark let Peter use his labs/resources at Stark industries, and Peter comes up with all this stuff ( maybe with some help from Stark ).


but still make Peter the brains behind it, not Stark.

Exactly. They couldn't even go the route of Cap TFA where Steve tells Howard Stark what he needs & even has input on the design. No, Stark just hands Peter his classic suit & everything Peter made to go with it in the comics. If this was a true big-brother & little-brother relationship, it would have functioned like Stark & Rogers' relationship in TFA. Tony & Peter would be like Curt Conners & Peter in TASM where they collaborate on different things. Fricking Ganke is the one to remove the tracking device from his suit. Peter actually goes to him for help because he can't do it himself.

 

[Dark Raven]

see that's the thing. Tony built this. Tony built that. It's like Peter is suddenly Bond and Stark is his Q.

a happy medium or alternative to Peter "coming up with that stuff in his bedroom" would be to have Stark let Peter use his labs/resources at Stark industries, and Peter comes up with all this stuff ( maybe with some help from Stark ).

but still make Peter the brains behind it, not Stark.

Tony Stark is Bond. Tony Stark is also Q. Aunt May is Moneypenny. They'll flirt together.

Peter is just the random lab technician/guinea pig that Q would get to demonstrate his weapons to Bond.