Homecoming The Spider-Man Skepticism Thread

[ironwez20]

We're just going to keep going in circles. No matter how valid anything I say is, you'll always say i'm being a whiny brat or immature & I'll never agree with your stance on TASM. I could say the same thing to you, you let every change in Homecoming pass, you seemingly don't care about any supporting cast member, you're even okay with Peter not becoming classic Spidey until movie 3 but yet you were pissed at TASM for his arc.

Now I'm wondering if you can answer my question about your stance, how & why do you consider what Marvel is giving us the definitive take? An equally outrageous claim.

Well we don't really know right now. We don't know if it's definitive cause the movie isn't out

 

[harryoscop]

Well we don't really know right now. We don't know if it's definitive cause the movie isn't out

I'm asking him because he's called Homecoming's take the definitive version even though he has just as much info as I do.

In my opinion, this movie can not be the definitive take on anything because it's far too different from the comics. In order to be the "DEFINITIVE" Spider-Man, it has brilliantly adapt the comics like this show did:

That's what practically every Spidey fan considers the definitive Spider-Man. When Homecoming can match it, then come back to me.

 

[Flint Marko]

We're just going to keep going in circles. No matter how valid anything I say is, you'll always say i'm being a whiny brat or immature

I never called you a whiny brat but yes, your behavior around here has been immature for months. Every valid point you make is buried under a mountain of hypberolic, objectively incorrect nonsense and it brings down the discussion for everyone.

"It's being retconned that Peter doesn't care about responsibility!" - No it isn't Harry. There's no way anyone thinking clearly would come to that conclusion. Tout around all the quotes from the producers that you'd like, none of them are going to support this outlandish claim and it's going right on the ever-growing list of ridiculous things you say.

"Homecoming is like FFINO!" - No, Harry. No it is not. Not only does movie look to have the appropriate aesthetic and tone for the source material, I can look at our hero suited up and tell who he is.

There's no defending claims like these. You clearly want them to be true to support your anger and disappointment in the fact that you aren't getting the Spider-man movie you want, but they aren't true. So quit saying them. Focus on real problems that you have with the film, not things you are making up, and find level-headed, rational ways to word your criticisms.

Now I'm wondering if you can answer my question about your stance, how & why do you consider what Marvel is giving us the definitive take? An equally outrageous claim.

Do me a favor, when have I ever claimed that Homecoming is the definitive take? Please show me that quote.

 

[harryoscop]

I never called you a whiny brat but yes, your behavior around here has been immature for months. Every valid point you make is buried under a mountain of hypberolic, objectively incorrect nonsense and it brings down the discussion for everyone.

And that is a fair assessment, which is why my complaints are relegated to the scepticism thread now. But none of what I'm saying now is incorrect. There is no hyperbole anymore.

"It's being retconned that Peter doesn't care about responsibility!" - No it isn't Harry. There's no way anyone thinking clearly would come to that conclusion. Tout around all the quotes from the producers that you'd like, none of them are going to support this outlandish claim and it's going right on the ever-growing list of ridiculous things you say.

Yes they do because they run contrary to what we've already seen. Everybody is interpreting it the same way I am either way. "He hasn't learned with Great Power yet", "with Great Power comes great fun", "He's having fun being a kid" etc

"Homecoming is like FFINO!" - No, Harry. No it is not. Not only does movie look to have the appropriate aesthetic and tone for the source material, I can look at our hero suited up and tell who he is.

Can you tell who these characters are?

Spoiler

P.S Shocker is as recognizable & half-assed as Reed Richards in FFINO. Didn't even bother to give him two gauntlets.


And there were fans arguing that FFINO was faithful just because Reed was still smart & could stretch, Sue could turn invisible, Johnny a devil-may-care attitude & lighting on fire, Ben being tough guy & a rock monster etc. It's the same thing with you arguing Peter isn't changed because he's still smart & made his own webshooters, even though many aspects are missing from him

There's no defending claims like these. You clearly want them to be true to support your anger and disappointment in the fact that you aren't getting the Spider-man movie you want, but they aren't true. So quit saying them. Focus on real problems that you have with the film, not things you are making up, and find level-headed, rational ways to word your criticisms.

These are real problems. Spider-Man a having a Jarvis A.I is a problem, his suit being radically teched out is a problem. Tony Stark's role in this movie is a problem. The supporting cast is a problem. How else am I suppose to word them? This is the scepticism thread

Do me a favor, when have I ever claimed that Homecoming is the definitive take? Please show me that quote.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=35116765&postcount=752

 

[The Shape]

@harryoscop, if you don't mind me asking (and no offense intended), aren't you like 15 or 16 years old? I seem to remember you stating your age or birth year before.

 

[Flint Marko]

And that is a fair assessment, which is why my complaints are relegated to the scepticism thread now.

Which is a good point. I lost track of the fact that this was the skepticism thread, so I'll end it here.

You'll note that I said "looks to be", as in not yet but maybe, because I'm not going to claim something about a movie that I have not yet seen. Learn to do the same; I recall you labeling him the definitive Spider-man after seeing him in Civil War.

 

[ironwez20]

I'm asking him because he's called Homecoming's take the definitive version even though he has just as much info as I do.

In my opinion, this movie can not be the definitive take on anything because it's far too different from the comics. In order to be the "DEFINITIVE" Spider-Man, it has brilliantly adapt the comics like this show did:

That's what practically every Spidey fan considers the definitive Spider-Man. When Homecoming can match it, then come back to me.

yea your right. This is the spiderman people want to see. But you see the trailer we got was an action heavy trailer that shocased Spidey being in the MCU world. It was the people at sony basically saying this is a different spiderman so we aren't so sure what type of drama or conversations will go down. Only think that sucks right now is the supporting cast.... to me at least.

 

[harryoscop]

If the supporting cast is bad (it is), what else is there besides Spidey himself & Keaton's Vulture.

Shape I'm 18, graduating HS next month (I'm going to be wayy less active pretty soon)

 

[ironwez20]

If the supporting cast is bad (it is), what else is there besides Spidey himself & Keaton's Vulture.

Shape I'm 18, graduating HS next month (I'm going to be wayy less active pretty soon)

Well from what i've seen it's bad. i don't like ned leeds or scrawny Flash but I can't say the same for everyone else. You never know. This is an MCU movie now. They could very well show Osborn, JJJ and others. They just don;t want to reveal them. They've done this before with lots of other movies. Revealing other characters that nobody knew would be in the movie.

 

[Web-Head]

I have no idea why they didn't use Spectacular Spider-Man as a template.

 

[SpideyJJ]

I have no idea why they didn't use Spectacular Spider-Man as a template.

Been asking myself that alot these past 2/3 months

 

[2kt09]

I have no idea why they didn't use Spectacular Spider-Man as a template.

Because it's too self-contained, too comparatively niche, a generation old, and any rights issue that may still play a factor.

There are however still influences from that here IF the supporting cast is substantially developed including a possible gang war connection.

I still stand that a template like that still works best for tv than movies.

 

[Matt Parker]

Ok, I take issue with saying that the supporting cast sucks. Are they different from the classic characters? Yes. However, everything we've seen from them in the trailers looks good. Marissa Tomei is an academy award winning actress. The stuff with Ned Leeds looks very fun. So on and so forth. I think its to soon to say that they suck.

 

[Web-Head]

Because it's too self-contained, too comparatively niche, a generation old, and any rights issue that may still play a factor.

There are however still influences from that here IF the supporting cast is substantially developed including a possible gang war connection.

I still stand that a template like that still works best for tv than movies.

Spider-Man in high school and no origin story? Check
Great, developed, diverse supporting cast with a lot of high school drama? Check.

They could've easily used Spectacular as more of an inspiration. Pretty much any Spider-Man fan would say it's the definitive take on the character.

 

[2kt09]

Spider-Man in high school and no origin story? Check
Great, developed, diverse supporting cast with a lot of high school drama? Check.

Like Dark Raven suspects, the high school stuff could be more of an afterthought.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Self-containment from the MCU? Blasphemy.

 

[harryoscop]

Self-containment from the MCU? Blasphemy.

Gotta slide in them MCU references & make dem connections to Mr. Stark

Because it's too self-contained, too comparatively niche, a generation old, and any rights issue that may still play a factor.


There are however still influences from that here IF the supporting cast is substantially developed including a possible gang war connection.


I still stand that a template like that still works best for tv than movies.

Doctor Strange was pretty self-contained. It made little references to the wider MCU but it was mostly it's own thing. Same for Ant-Man. Homecoming has more reason to be a true solo movie because it's a 15 year-old, small-town kid trying to make a difference while balancing his school life. Spider-Man being self-contained is a good thing considering that's the way his stories have always been told.


That template works best for Spider-Man. Period. The first episode of SSM could have easily been adapted into a movie. It gave us a diverse cast & new characters without ruining pre-existing ones.

 

[harryoscop]

 

[PeterBenParker]

Yup.

 

[ironwez20]

Hopefully it doesn't go there

 

[Web-Head]

Self-containment from the MCU? Blasphemy.

I know you're being sarcastic, but most of the films of late have been fairly sefl contained. Strange, Guardians, TWS, etc. Even Ant-Man to an extent

 

[harryoscop]

I know you're being sarcastic, but most of the films of late have been fairly sefl contained. Strange, Guardians, TWS, etc. Even Ant-Man to an extent

So why wouldn't Spidey of all characters, who is known for having self-contained stories, not have one in his FIRST MCU solo movie?

 

[PeterBenParker]

I know you're being sarcastic, but most of the films of late have been fairly sefl contained. Strange, Guardians, TWS, etc. Even Ant-Man to an extent

Oh, I know, and some of those films have been my favorites from the MCU thus far. Specifically TWS, Ant-Man and Strange.

 

[PeterBenParker]

So why wouldn't Spidey of all characters, who is known for having self-contained stories, not have one in his FIRST MCU solo movie?

Well, they introduced him in Civil War. It probably would've been different if he was introduced in his own film first.

 

[Web-Head]

Well, they introduced him in Civil War. It probably would've been different if he was introduced in his own film first.

I thought since he was in Civil War, it would've been contained since most would know "Oh, this Spider-Man is in the MCU now" after seeing it.