Homecoming The Spider-Man Skepticism Thread

[Spider-Ock]

So any rough ideas on when spoilers are out? I think this is the first time I can think of where I want to be spoiled going in.

The way I'd see it, it's a win-win situation. If my worries are put to ease, I have less anxiety going in. If they're not, I have more mental time to prepare to judge this on its own merits. Granted if I don't know anything going in and the film puts me to ease, the giddiness at the end is a lot stronger...but the frustration can also be a lot higher. Plus I might be so fixated on certain aspects that even if they do a good job with them, I don't focus critically on anything else. So overall, it looks like the pros of getting spoiled outweigh the cons for me.

It does say something about Sony though IMO. It suggests they're the worst marketing studio in modern times.

Let's face it. Would the "skepticism" be anywhere as strong if the marketing was at least impressive? If at least it wasn't so obnoxious?

I mean, it's not the first time I held reservations on a major character going in. Some of the things I noticed early on with BvS and Rises were way more irritating than this. But there was still enough "magic" in the marketing to go in blank-minded. There was something there. Even with the empty corporate shell that is BvS, its trailers at least had a facade of being a bit more than "business".

So far other than Vulture, everything just reeks of "business" in the clips and trailers. They're trying too hard to sell us what looks like a damage control film. And the reason it looks so much that way is because of the marketing in the first place. It's a never-ending loop. I have a hard time believing anyone disagrees with me on this, even if you're the biggest optimist going in.

Here's some spoilers:http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/25-spider-man-homecoming-spoilers


Although nothing really MAJOR

Here's everything that happens in the junior novel:

Spoiler

1. Peter goes to Germany, geeks out over his suit, records the battle, goes back to the hotel, and decides to take out the suit on a test run. He saves an old lady, who later turns out to be the German chancellor. There's a humorous sequence with Happy at breakfast, before he is whisked away back home. Tony promises to call him if they need him.

2. Flashforward to 4 months, and he is still not an Avenger. He is annoyed by this, and uses the Stark internship as an excuse for his Spider-Manning. He reports his activities to Happy's voicemail.

3. Flash is more of an intellectual rival to Peter, but he can't answer a question in class and Peter, who is wistful about the airport battle, gets it right even though he wasn't paying attention the entire time.

4. Peter is surprisingly popular in the high school. He has Leeds, and is part of the decathlon team that is being sent to Washington. Flash, Michelle, and Liz are a part of this team too.

5. Peter can't go to Washington, much to the disappointment of Michelle, and to the excitement of Flash.

6. Leeds comes over to his place to build Saturn in the solar system (changed from the Death Star in the trailers) and finds out he is Spider-Man. (forgot if this takes place after or before he says he aint going to the decathlon)

7. Spider-Man, while patrolling, sees a robbery going on. He stops the Avengers copycats but one piece of weaponry destroys a bodega next door. He goes over to the bodega because one of the members of his community owns it. That guy isn't harmed, but because he went over to check, the bad guys escape.

8. Liz invites Peter and Ned to a party, and Ned blabs to Liz that Peter knows Spider-Man (Liz has a crush on Spidey).

9. Peter and Ned go and Peter doesn't really like it there. Flash teases him about Spidey not being at the party, and Peter goes outside to change into Spidey.

10. Spidey doesn't go inside, but instead spots the Avengers guys with the weaponry.

11. He gives chase, finds a piece of their tech, and is captured by the Vulture, at which point his parachute activates and he falls into the river.

12. Stark's suit (Ala Iron Man 3) saves him.

13. It is revealed that Stark put a tracker inside his suit.

14. Peter thinks these guys are dangerous, but Starks wants him to stay close to the ground.

15. He doesn't listen, and analyzes the tech he got with Leeds. It gives off a purple smoky things, and the bad guys come to Peter's high school to track it down.

16. Peter puts a tracker on them, and realizes their headquarters are close to Washington.

17. Guess what? He travels to Washington, where Liz has a pool party for the guys but Peter skips it to go track down the bad guys.

18. He also disables the tracker in his suit with the help of Ned, who also disables the Training Wheels protocol that Stark puts in the suit.

19. This activates a flurry of web shooter combos and the AI.

20. Peter can't really control it properly and the bad guys capture him and put him in a container.

21. He realizes the stolen tech from his previous fight is going to blow off soon, and it is with Ned.

22. And ned is at the Washington monument.

23. He calls Ned to tell him to throw the tech away, but Liz grabs Ned's phone and is super pissed at Peter (they won the decathlon without him btw).

24. Peter rushes to the monument to rescue all of them before the tech blows.

25. He saves all of them and that's where the book ends.

 

[GuestStar2004]

ok sooo....

Spoiler

Stark has put training wheels on the suit untill they hack it and allow him to play with it?

I assume by the end stark takes the training wheels off because i still don't think he is losing the suit.

 

[harryoscop]

Tbh when i look at this movie i see far more confidence with it then i did TASM series which at times looked like Sony couldn't make their minds up what they wanted to do.

So with this movie i can see marvels influence on it and while nothing marvel wanted could be done without sonys permission i am also sure alot of permission had to be had from marvel also since Sony are playing in the MCU playground now

I don't think people want to think bad of marvel and have always wanted to believe that Marvel would make the most accurate film yet... but no i ain't giving marvel a free pass here since i am willing to bet they are just as much on board with how things are turning out.

Normally I'd agree but after seeing the Black Panther trailer & thinking about it, it just doesn't make sense or line up with Marvel's track record & their creative decisions. Practically every MCU film has respected the comics & that character's mythos. (GOTG is the property that took the most liberty but the changes make sense)

People always say the MCU always takes massive liberties when defending Homecoming but let's see:


Black Panther: That trailer & the characters in it are faithful to the comics. Erik Killmonger, W'Kabi, Klaw, M'Baku (looks ripped off the pages) Nakia, Dora Milaje group (even has most of the original members from the comics) etc all faithful adaptations from what we know about them



Iron Man: Rhodey is faithful to the comics. The spirit of the original comic Obidiah is still very intact. Happy & Potts are faithful to their original comic incarnations (although Pepper & Happy got together instead of Tony) Yinsen is very faithful to the comics--Tony Stark's entire origin is faithful to the comics. Iron Man 3 was a pretty faithful adaptation of Extremis. You even had Aldrich Killian & Mayah as the creators just like the comics. The Manderin wasn't I'll give you that. But several of his traits were passed to other characters.


Thor: Jane was changed from the comics & Selvig & Darcy were original characters BUT-- Loki was VERY faithful to the comics. Laufey was faithful to the comics, Odin was faithful, Frigga was faithful, the Warriors 3 were faithful, Heimdall was faithful, Sif was faithful. Certain liberties were taken with these characters but the TRAITS & spirit was still completely intact.


Doctor Strange: Ancient One, Strange's accident, Mordo, Wong, Dormmamu were all faithful to the comics. Kaecillus was a blend of different villains but it made sense because Strange doesn't have a substantial rouges gallery & Marvel wanted to save Mordo for the sequel. Dormmamu was technically the main villain anyway & he is Strange's arch-nemesis & most well-known villain


Spider-Man Homecoming: Ned Leeds is Ganke from a completely different version of Spider-Man (Miles Morales) & has no traits at all from the original Ned Leeds. Ned in name only. -- Flash Thompson is an intellectual rival of Peter Parker, described as the runt of Midtown High & is shorter than Peter himself. The opposite of the traditional Flash Thompson. -- Betty Brant is not associated with the Daily Bugle at all, has the look of Gwen Stacy & the traits of Sally Avril (being the popular girl) She is Betty in name only. -- Sally Avril, Jason Macendale, Tiny Mcceever are all just random names they pulled out of the comics & slapped onto random students.


Spider-Man himself is wearing an Iron Man suit that literally does everything for him, is reliant on it and afraid of heights. His powers are a joy ride for him & he hasn't come to the conclusion that with Great power comes great responsibility as confirmed by producer Eric Hausserman Carroll.




Homecoming is a far-cry from the comics & the majority of MCU films are not. There's a reason why we thought Marvel would give us the definitive, most comic-accurate version of the character. Feige LOVES the character, he seems to completely understand the character yet Homecoming is the least faithful cinematic adaptation yet. It's just odd. Marvel & Sony may have had a power struggle over this film.

 

[harryoscop]

Here's everything that happens in the junior novel:

Spoiler

1. Peter goes to Germany, geeks out over his suit, records the battle, goes back to the hotel, and decides to take out the suit on a test run. He saves an old lady, who later turns out to be the German chancellor. There's a humorous sequence with Happy at breakfast, before he is whisked away back home. Tony promises to call him if they need him.

2. Flashforward to 4 months, and he is still not an Avenger. He is annoyed by this, and uses the Stark internship as an excuse for his Spider-Manning. He reports his activities to Happy's voicemail.

3. Flash is more of an intellectual rival to Peter, but he can't answer a question in class and Peter, who is wistful about the airport battle, gets it right even though he wasn't paying attention the entire time.

4. Peter is surprisingly popular in the high school. He has Leeds, and is part of the decathlon team that is being sent to Washington. Flash, Michelle, and Liz are a part of this team too.

5. Peter can't go to Washington, much to the disappointment of Michelle, and to the excitement of Flash.

6. Leeds comes over to his place to build Saturn in the solar system (changed from the Death Star in the trailers) and finds out he is Spider-Man. (forgot if this takes place after or before he says he aint going to the decathlon)

7. Spider-Man, while patrolling, sees a robbery going on. He stops the Avengers copycats but one piece of weaponry destroys a bodega next door. He goes over to the bodega because one of the members of his community owns it. That guy isn't harmed, but because he went over to check, the bad guys escape.

8. Liz invites Peter and Ned to a party, and Ned blabs to Liz that Peter knows Spider-Man (Liz has a crush on Spidey).

9. Peter and Ned go and Peter doesn't really like it there. Flash teases him about Spidey not being at the party, and Peter goes outside to change into Spidey.

10. Spidey doesn't go inside, but instead spots the Avengers guys with the weaponry.

11. He gives chase, finds a piece of their tech, and is captured by the Vulture, at which point his parachute activates and he falls into the river.

12. Stark's suit (Ala Iron Man 3) saves him.

13. It is revealed that Stark put a tracker inside his suit.

14. Peter thinks these guys are dangerous, but Starks wants him to stay close to the ground.

15. He doesn't listen, and analyzes the tech he got with Leeds. It gives off a purple smoky things, and the bad guys come to Peter's high school to track it down.

16. Peter puts a tracker on them, and realizes their headquarters are close to Washington.

17. Guess what? He travels to Washington, where Liz has a pool party for the guys but Peter skips it to go track down the bad guys.

18. He also disables the tracker in his suit with the help of Ned, who also disables the Training Wheels protocol that Stark puts in the suit.

19. This activates a flurry of web shooter combos and the AI.

20. Peter can't really control it properly and the bad guys capture him and put him in a container.

21. He realizes the stolen tech from his previous fight is going to blow off soon, and it is with Ned.

22. And ned is at the Washington monument.

23. He calls Ned to tell him to throw the tech away, but Liz grabs Ned's phone and is super pissed at Peter (they won the decathlon without him btw).

24. Peter rushes to the monument to rescue all of them before the tech blows.

25. He saves all of them and that's where the book ends.

Umm, wtf? Tom wasn't kidding. Spider-Man is a complete screw up in this film and how many times does Mr. Stark have to come to the rescue? Jeez..

Honestly, all of that sounds terrible. Just what kind of movie are they trying to make here? One that makes Spider-Man look like an idiot?

 

[Cosroo]

I think that is exactly what they're going for, that he is a screw up in this film, it's exactly why I don't think we're getting any shots of Spidey swinging through New York like in the Raimi trilogy.

"Never been this high before."

I believe they're working up to this version of him to be a true Spider-Man by the 2nd or more so, the 3rd film. Unfortunately, that makes this film feel a little bit like a stepping stone to get to the actual meat and bones. If there is no maturing by the end of this film, that'll be the biggest disappointment of them all. I think we can allow for one film Peter to be all dazzled and doughy eyed screaming woah's and awesome and radical at every turn, likes hes Sonic the damn Hedgehog, but by the sequels we SHOULD be getting a proper slightly mature Spider-Man.

...hopefully.

If they do it correctly, him being a bit of a terrible super hero and working his way up to be a bad ass superhero could be amazing to watch. We'll just have to see. I still think they're going to Luke Skywalker us and show a proper Spider-Man at the very end, only for it to go to the credits, make sure it gets our butts into the sequels.

 

[GuestStar2004]

but by the sequels we SHOULD be getting a proper slightly mature Spider-Man.

...hopefully.

I have my doubts, i think this is just the personality they have given him to make him abit more humorous and fun.

I mean while fans may cry because peter or spider-man is always goofing around the audience will find it funny which might end up making him likeable for them because audiences like funny characters.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I think that is exactly what they're going for, that he is a screw up in this film, it's exactly why I don't think we're getting any shots of Spidey swinging through New York like in the Raimi trilogy.

"Never been this high before."

I believe they're working up to this version of him to be a true Spider-Man by the 2nd or more so, the 3rd film. Unfortunately, that makes this film feel a little bit like a stepping stone to get to the actual meat and bones. If there is no maturing by the end of this film, that'll be the biggest disappointment of them all. I think we can allow for one film Peter to be all dazzled and doughy eyed screaming woah's and awesome and radical at every turn, likes hes Sonic the damn Hedgehog, but by the sequels we SHOULD be getting a proper slightly mature Spider-Man.

...hopefully.

If they do it correctly, him being a bit of a terrible super hero and working his way up to be a bad ass superhero could be amazing to watch. We'll just have to see. I still think they're going to Luke Skywalker us and show a proper Spider-Man at the very end, only for it to go to the credits, make sure it gets our butts into the sequels.

Had he only been Spider-Man for a week, a month, etc. I'd be fine with that stuff.

 

[marvelrobbins]

thing is just like i felt with spider-man 3 everyone blamed arab but not rami i feel trying to blame marvel and not sony is wrongfeige said tie and time again marvel had creative control.sony couldn't force marvel to turn spider-man into stark's sidekick.quite honestly both rothman and the creative team are to blame.rothman had to approve whatever marvel wanted to do.so on one hand rothman did with homecoming what he did with first 2 ff films,last stand,and origins but marvel is to blame too.

amazing spider-man 2 was disappointment especily when it come to the villains but at least they had stuff with peter/spidey and gwen that felt like spider-man.i am getting nothing here for homecoming.

 

[ironwez20]

thing is just like i felt with spider-man 3 everyone blamed arab but not rami i feel trying to blame marvel and not sony is wrongfeige said tie and time again marvel had creative control.sony couldn't force marvel to turn spider-man into stark's sidekick.quite honestly both rothman and the creative team are to blame.rothman had to approve whatever marvel wanted to do.so on one hand rothman did with homecoming what he did with first 2 ff films,last stand,and origins but marvel is to blame too.

amazing spider-man 2 was disappointment especily when it come to the villains but at least they had stuff with peter/spidey and gwen that felt like spider-man.i am getting nothing here for homecoming.

Idk I never liked andrews portrayal of Peter. He was way to confident and was barely nerdy. His Spider-Man was ok but that's not saying much. I'm just glad this movie isn't a full on love story like the previous ones. Got kinda sick of the same thing being told. I know he has a love interest in this but she doesn't look to be in it as much and probably sorta just breaks it off with him at the end.

 

[GuestStar2004]

If you didn't like andrews you probably won't like toms very much.

 

[harryoscop]

I have my doubts, i think this is just the personality they have given him to make him abit more humorous and fun.

I mean while fans may cry because peter or spider-man is always goofing around the audience will find it funny which might end up making him likeable for them because audiences like funny characters.

I don't think that'll be the case, thankfully. Feige said this movie is the story of how he becomes the Spidey we all know & love & Holland said it was a concious decision to make him this way to contrast the Spider-Man we get later.

The only problem is, Peter has never been this immature, naive & bad at his job. That novel almost sounds like a bad comedic parody of Spider-Man. And it's totally nonbelievable & forced because he has been Spider-Man for NINE MONTHS!_ That's almost a full year! How the heck is he still coming into his powers?

 

[PeterBenParker]

If you didn't like andrews you probably won't like toms very much.

My situation is a weird one in that case because Andrew's interpretation, despite its flaws, is my favorite thus far and I really couldn't stand Tom in Civil War and a lot of what I've seen post first trailer has me thinking I still won't be a fan.

I have hope I can be turned around but it'll take a lot to get me on that.

I don't think that'll be the case, thankfully. Feige said this movie is the story of how he becomes the Spidey we all know & love & Holland said it was a concious decision to make him this way to contrast the Spider-Man we get later.

The only problem is, Peter has never been this immature, naive & bad at his job. That novel almost sounds like a bad comedic parody of Spider-Man. And it's totally nonbelievable & forced because he has been Spider-Man for NINE MONTHS!_ That's almost a full year! How the heck is he still coming into his powers?

Preach. It could've been a lot easier if certain dialogue was changed or if they just abandoned this whole crummy angle.

 

[Shikamaru]

The only problem is, Peter has never been this immature, naive & bad at his job. That novel almost sounds like a bad comedic parody of Spider-Man. And it's totally nonbelievable & forced because he has been Spider-Man for NINE MONTHS!_ That's almost a full year! How the heck is he still coming into his powers?

To be fair, he also younger than most recent versions. He's a sophomore in this. Andrew and Tobey were at least in junior or senior year.

 

[ironwez20]

If you didn't like andrews you probably won't like toms very much.

Not really. I think Holland fits Peter much better than Andrew did and is a better Spider-Man than him judging by what I e seen.

 

[YoungBlood]

Umm, wtf? Tom wasn't kidding. Spider-Man is a complete screw up in this film and how many times does Mr. Stark have to come to the rescue? Jeez..

Honestly, all of that sounds terrible. Just what kind of movie are they trying to make here? One that makes Spider-Man look like an idiot?

To sum up the 3 Peter Parker's, Tobey was kind of whinny, Andrew was kind of a *****ebag, and Tom is coming off as kind of an idiot.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Not really. I think Holland fits Peter much better than Andrew did and is a better Spider-Man than him judging by what I e seen.

holland may being only one who really looks like a high school student but i will take andrew's peter anyday over him.

 

[marvelrobbins]

To sum up the 3 Peter Parker's, Tobey was kind of whinny, Andrew was kind of a *****ebag, and Tom is coming off as kind of an idiot.

that's a good compassion.

 

[ironwez20]

holland may being only one who really looks like a high school student but i will take andrew's peter anyday over him.

Cool. I hated Andrews cocky Peter but ok

 

[SpideyJJ]

Wasn't too much of a fan of Garfield's Peter either tbh. I think Holland's portrayal in Civil War had by far my favorite on screen Peter. It's his Spider-Man I haven't seemed to enjoy all that much

 

[GuestStar2004]

The only problem is, Peter has never been this immature, naive & bad at his job. That novel almost sounds like a bad comedic parody of Spider-Man.

So like the Ultimate Spider-man cartoon.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Not really. I think Holland fits Peter much better than Andrew did and is a better Spider-Man than him judging by what I e seen.

Toms Peter and Spider-man is basically andrews but turned up the max with no safety wheels.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

The only problem is, Peter has never been this immature, naive & bad at his job. That novel almost sounds like a bad comedic parody of Spider-Man. And it's totally nonbelievable & forced because he has been Spider-Man for NINE MONTHS!_ That's almost a full year! How the heck is he still coming into his powers?

Time frame aside, this is the guy who can fight all these other superheroes without a plethora of functions in suit, him being reckless, immature, and amateurish in his own movie following those events is sorely disappointing.

 

[AlluAllu]

Time frame aside, this is the guy who can fight all these other superheroes without a plethora of functions in suit, him being reckless, immature, and amateurish in his own movie following those events is sorely disappointing.

Spoilers from junior novel conserning Peter's skill level in this movie:

Spoiler

Looks like the new suit and Peter's overconfidence in operating it is precisely why Peter fails in this movie. Meaning that there is an in-universe reason for this.

 

[ironwez20]

Toms Peter and Spider-man is basically andrews but turned up the max with no safety wheels.

Lol nooooooo not at all. Andrews Peter was a confident guy and a *****e. Tom is a playful kid who is to naive . They are nothing alike at all.

 

[Schlosser85]

Yea I don't really see the similarity either.