The Spoilers thread

[Fosterson]

If the movie made it clear he was working for the Russians then I'm pretty sure that the movie would've been banned in Russia lol. I just assumed that they are in a not quite official part of the govt status like Shield is more international than beholden to the U.S. govt.

Given that the Russian market is quite small, it's nowhere near as financially prohibitive to p*ss them off as it is with the Chinese.

That's why a movie like The Death of Stalin was made, even though they knew Russia would ban it (as they did). By contrast, doing "The Death of Mao" would probably be a lot harder and less profitable.

 

[samsnee]

I rewatched again and third act just disappointed me even more. I never found Dreykov menacing. Just another monologue-ing bad guy with vague threats about controlling the world. Another floating fortress crashing to the ground like we’ve seen before in Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Endgame. A love for a “family” that isn’t referenced at all in Endgame. At the very least Nat could have mentioned them to Clint on Voldimir.

Loved Yelena and Red Guardian and hope they show up again. But glad I didn’t make an effort to see this in theaters.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

One thing that left me confused is this: was Dreykov still working for the Russian government, or had he become a rogue agent?

The movie makes it clear that the Red Room was originally a Soviet, and later Russian government program, and yet at the end of the movie Dreykov seems to be running his operation without oversight from anyone.

This also ties in with one of my biggest problems with Dreykov as a villain: we don't get a clear enough sense of what his ultimate objective is. I get that he's a misogynistic a*****e who enjoys kidnapping and brainwashing young girls, but to what purpose? He mentions in passing that Natasha betrayed "her people", which certainly indicates he's some kind of Russian nationalist and/or Soviet nostalgist. But aside from that its all just a bit too vague.

I wonder if there's any chance they'll go Leviathan in the future. That's who the Contessa Valentina was ultimately working for in the comics. And they were also involved with the Red Room in Agent Carter. The latter may or may not be fully canon anymore, but it was written by Markus & McFeely who also wrote the Captain America trilogy + Infinity War and Endgame, so it may actually have been part of writers room discussions within Marvel Studios. And they did reuse James D'Arcy. I guess we'll see in the Marvel Legends: Peggy Carter episode if they include anything there. On the other hand I could also understand them not wanting to deal with another Hydra-like organization right now.

 

[Iceman]

Anyone else think Taskmaster will lead the freed Widows as some type of mercenaries in the future? Good, neutral or evil?

If so I don’t think they should be villains given they were freed from this programme and knowing what they’ve been made to do against their own will. I would like to see them again if they are good or neutral going forward.

 

[Enriquespy]

Well, the movie was ok. It's just that almost everything this movie did "The Winter Soldier" did much better.

 

[Mysteryman]

Well, the movie was ok. It's just that almost everything this movie did "The Winter Soldier" did much better.

I really can't speak to that.
At the time, I was too busy enjoying BW to compare the two.

 

[Mysteryman]

I rewatched again and third act just disappointed me even more. I never found Dreykov menacing. Just another monologue-ing bad guy with vague threats about controlling the world. Another floating fortress crashing to the ground like we’ve seen before in Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Endgame. A love for a “family” that isn’t referenced at all in Endgame. At the very least Nat could have mentioned them to Clint on Voldimir.

Loved Yelena and Red Guardian and hope they show up again. But glad I didn’t make an effort to see this in theaters.

I very much respect your opinion.
But,I saw BW in theaters.
I cannot imagine doing it any other way.

 

[Mysteryman]

Am I the only one here who after seeing the film, imagined that before we see ScarJo return as Natasha, we might somehow see her in a flashback as Natasha's mother trying to rescue her daughter from the Red Room?

 

[Mike Murdock]

I wonder if there's any chance they'll go Leviathan in the future. That's who the Contessa Valentina was ultimately working for in the comics. And they were also involved with the Red Room in Agent Carter. The latter may or may not be fully canon anymore, but it was written by Markus & McFeely who also wrote the Captain America trilogy + Infinity War and Endgame, so it may actually have been part of writers room discussions within Marvel Studios. And they did reuse James D'Arcy. I guess we'll see in the Marvel Legends: Peggy Carter episode if they include anything there. On the other hand I could also understand them not wanting to deal with another Hydra-like organization right now.

I loved Leviathan's portrayal in Agent Carter. Personally, I thought that was sufficient as a sort of Russian SHIELD but I'm sure they can bring it back if they have the right story for it. With the demise of SHIELD, though, it feels more redundant. Although I feel the same way about Hydra.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Well, the movie was ok. It's just that almost everything this movie did "The Winter Soldier" did much better.

The similarity between the Cap/Bucky and BW/Taskmaster dynamic is pretty superficial, though. Cap's whole crisis is with the idea of his best friend being brainwashed into doing horrible things (through no fault of Cap's, Cap remains a morally uncompromised hero throughout), and subsequently being the only person who still believes in him. BW's crisis is all about the fact that she once attempted to straight up murder a child in order to get at the child's father and now has to atone for what she did.

 

[zephyrinthesky]

BW's crisis is all about the fact that she once attempted to straight up murder a child in order to get at the child's father and now has to atone for what she did.

I feel like the film didn't even accomplish the atonement part very well.

Nat finishes the job (killing Dreykov/the Red Room), but it feels more like she's fixing a grocery list item that she forgot instead of grappling with guilt she's carried for 20 years.

The only time Nat seems emotional about it is at the very end of the movie, but even then it's resolved too neatly.

 

[Enriquespy]

Yes there are are different emotional beats and story arches. But still: Past hunts me! Bad organization still exists!! Badass antagonist is brainwashed and flips cars with cool weapon! Let's take the big floating ship down in the climax! tease future project with a chat in a cemetery!

 

[Mysteryman]

Yes there are are different emotional beats and story arches. But still: Past hunts me! Bad organization still exists!! Badass antagonist is brainwashed and flips cars with cool weapon! Let's take the big floating ship down in the climax! tease future project with a chat in a cemetery!

In the case of TWS,
It was just a joke that was an excuse for A Pulp Fiction Reference on the tombstone.

 

[Web-Head]

 

[Mysteryman]

I haven't watched it yet and don't want spoilers so I'm not reading anything here. I just have one question I'd like answered from anyone who might know (I'll only read alerts I get from quotes in this thread and private messages). Recently I've been rewatching the MCU with someone who's watching for the first time. We've watched everything up to Captain Marvel but not yet Endgame, so this person doesn't know what happens in Endgame. Since everyone has been saying the Black Widow movie should've come out before Endgame I was wondering if this movie is safe to watch for someone who hasn't seen Endgame yet. So basically does this movie contain

A. No spoilers for Endgame at all (so safe to watch)
B. Spoilers for Endgame only in mid-credits/end-credits scenes (can watch, but the other person should leave during credits)
C. Spoilers for Endgame within the main movie (not safe to watch, go see it only after Endgame)
?

Thanks for the help.

I know this was was quite awhile ago but I was wondering if your friend who you were watching the MCU with enjoyed BW and how did she react to Natashas fate in Endgame?

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I know this was was quite awhile ago but I was wondering if your friend who you were watching the MCU with enjoyed BW and how did she react to Natashas fate in Endgame?

My friend enjoyed Black Widow. Particularly the Alexei prison breakout scene stood out, and the Taskmaster reveal was actually well received. When watching Endgame there was an expectation that Natasha would somehow be revealed to have survived so there wasn't a strong reaction in the moment. My friend did say it would've been weird to watch Black Widow after Natasha already died in Endgame. We watched the Black Widow post credits scene after Endgame, so that also gave a bit more closure on Natasha's death.

 

[psylockolussus]

This being released 2 years after Endgame and the start of the Multiverse Saga, would forever bug me. If Scarlett returns in Secret Wars, maybe that would change. I also didn't like how this set up Yelena for Thunderbolts*/Hawkeye - a film that I don't anticipate and a project that is on a different platform.

I liked the movie, but there were a lot more important films they could have made during those times - Captain Marvel 2/F4. I don't think Captain Marvel 2 would have flopped in 2021. I mentioned F4 as I'm not sure if that would do well next year at the box office because MCU isn't as strong as they used to. $170 million+ for Fantastic 4 in North America would guarantee a sequel.

 

[Mysteryman]

I would rather have A Black Widow film released when it was,after Endgame, than no BW film at all.

 

[psylockolussus]

In hindsight, that and Eternals shouldn't have happened.

 

[Venom 1988]

In hindsight, that and Eternals shouldn't have happened.

Hard disagree

 

[Mysteryman]

Hard disagree

Hard Agree with your, Hard Disagree!