The Spoilers thread

[WatchProtect]

But didn't Red Skull call Gamora the daughter of Thanos? Why does birth parent matter for Natasha, but not Gamora? Why doesn't he call her a daughter of Alexei or something?

On other notes: If Drekov could make one Taskmaster, why not have more? How did he survive, with seemingly no burns, the bomb?Though Perlmutter's not the one who had her killed off in Endgame, preventing this character from ever having a franchise, now. That's what I care about more, at this point. Because she's dead, in the service of a male character.

The parent thing is because Gamora despite hating Thanos really had no choice but to consider him a Father, Widow at that point hadn't considered Aleksei or Dreykov her father, same way Melina wasnt her mother.

He didnt make Taskmaster, they were mind controlled yes but the Mimicry was %100 natural to Taskmaster, it wasnt an add on. As for him not having damage? Some spy makeover, body doubles, take your pic.

Fortunately or unfortunately depending on the person Yelena is absolutely gonna be leading a new Widow franchise..so while it's not Natasha I imagine the MCU will make it so that theoretically it could work with either Widow, I'd take Natasha's sacrifice in Endgame instead of a trilogy for her and I say that as someone who loves the character.

 

[fan4stic]

The parent thing is because Gamora despite hating Thanos really had no choice but to consider him a Father, Widow at that point hadn't considered Aleksei or Dreykov her father, same way Melina wasnt her mother.

Why would that matter to Natasha, who, I think, says, didn't know her dad's name? Why would she consider Ivan a dad?

He didnt make Taskmaster, they were mind controlled yes but the Mimicry was %100 natural to Taskmaster, it wasnt an add on. As for him not having damage? Some spy makeover, body doubles, take your pic.

Doesn't he say he put a chip into her brain?

I think it's said there was no body.

Fortunately or unfortunately depending on the person Yelena is absolutely gonna be leading a new Widow franchise..so while it's not Natasha I imagine the MCU will make it so that theoretically it could work with either Widow, I'd take Natasha's sacrifice in Endgame instead of a trilogy for her and I say that as someone who loves the character.

I'm not that interested in watching regurgitated whitewashed (morally) Black Widow have a series of movies, after the original didn't get them. I felt like her sacrifice didn't serve the character, her use in that movie didn't give her much and I think was retroactively made more annoying, to me, by this movie. Moreso at this movie, than that, but you get it. I don't have much excitement, for, to me, weaker variations on the same characters.

 

[legendkillin]

The parent thing is because Gamora despite hating Thanos really had no choice but to consider him a Father, Widow at that point hadn't considered Aleksei or Dreykov her father, same way Melina wasnt her mother.

But Red Skull interaction takes place after BW events since it is in Endgame and at the end she considers them family so I would think she accepts Aleksei in some way. She never really mentions her birth father either, but in BW she is more concerned about her mother and finds out she searched for her relentlessly.

It doesn't hurt the movies to me but I do wish Red Skull would have reversed it and said Natasha mother of so and so then Clint father of so and so. That way Natasha would have known her mom's name before dying since Dreykov said it was unknown and wouldn't have told her.

 

[WatchProtect]

Why would that matter to Natasha, who, I think, says, didn't know her dad's name? Why would she consider Ivan a dad?Doesn't he say he put a chip into her brain?

I think it's said there was no body.I'm not that interested in watching regurgitated whitewashed (morally) Black Widow have a series of movies, after the original didn't get them. I felt like her sacrifice didn't serve the character, her use in that movie didn't give her much and I think was retroactively made more annoying, to me, by this movie. Moreso at this movie, than that, but you get it. I don't have much excitement, for, to me, weaker variations on the same characters.

Red Skull said the person Gamora most closely relates to a father, Natasha wasnt relating anyone to a father so he told her her actual father since there was no name to pull from.

He put a chip in her neck because she was paralyzed, it had nothing to do with the powers, the chip just worked for her mobility.

To each their own on the last part, sorry your not excited.

 

[WatchProtect]

But Red Skull interaction takes place after BW events since it is in Endgame and at the end she considers them family so I would think she accepts Aleksei in some way. She never really mentions her birth father either, but in BW she is more concerned about her mother and finds out she searched for her relentlessly.

It doesn't hurt the movies to me but I do wish Red Skull would have reversed it and said Natasha mother of so and so then Clint father of so and so. That way Natasha would have known her mom's name before dying since Dreykov said it was unknown and wouldn't have told her.

I read it as Widow forgave Aleksei because he was disillusioned but consider the fact Endgame is 8 Years after Black Widow she probably cut Melina and him Officially out of her life. She never considered Aleksei a father, just yelena as a sister. I have no proof of this but I think the father/mother thing is meant to be who you relate too more. Like Gamora is more like Thanos than her real parents because he raised her. Barton is more like his mother because assuming his origin is the same as the comics, his father abused him and his brother. While its mentioned she was relentless like her mother, maybe her father was who she took after, Russian born assassin, apt for killing ect.

In the end though the reason is just different narratives, when Endgame filmed I doubt the Widow script was ready, it's a small thing that doesnt personally bother me, but I can see where you're coming from.

 

[fan4stic]

Red Skull said the person Gamora most closely relates to a father, Natasha wasnt relating anyone to a father so he told her her actual father since there was no name to pull from.

I think those rules are fairly arbitrary.

He put a chip in her neck because she was paralyzed, it had nothing to do with the powers, the chip just worked for her mobility.

Based on the transcript of that scene I'm looking at, that's not said. Nothing about her being paralyzed or that her mimicry came from her. Just the line, "You gave me my greatest weapon. Say hello. When your bomb exploded, it nearly killed my Antonia. I had to put a chip in the back of her neck. In the back of her neck." and "She… She watches everything and she can do it. She’s a perfect mimic. And she fights just like all of your friends."

 

[Dark Raven]

Although it was good to have opening credits and music (something I wish they had for other Marvel films as it creates a certain excitement), this is one movie that could've done without it. It kind of gave it away that Olga Kurylenko could've been Taskmaster by featuring her name in the opening credits because she was a name we hadn't seen at all before in association with the movie.

No-one had a clue she was even in this movie. So who else would she be, especially after she hadn't shown up all that time when a good chunk of the movie had already gone by? I knew it was going to be her face that we'd see when Taskmaster's helmet came off.

Or they could've kept her name out of the opening credits and only had her in the end credits.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I think it's said there was no body.I'm not that interested in watching regurgitated whitewashed (morally) Black Widow have a series of movies, after the original didn't get them. I felt like her sacrifice didn't serve the character, her use in that movie didn't give her much and I think was retroactively made more annoying, to me, by this movie. Moreso at this movie, than that, but you get it. I don't have much excitement, for, to me, weaker variations on the same characters.

I don't get how Yelena is a "morally whitewashed" version of Natasha. She seems WAY more morally grey than Nat ever was in the MCU. Nat came in guilt-ridden and trying to wipe out the red on her ledger. Yelena seems perfectly fine with killing. She bazooka'd that prison guard just for doing his job. And now she's gone straight back into contract killing, just on her own terms now. Which is, you know, worse than being forced to do it...

 

[Mike Murdock]

But didn't Red Skull call Gamora the daughter of Thanos? Why does birth parent matter for Natasha, but not Gamora? Why doesn't he call her a daughter of Alexei or something?

Maybe Thanos had Gamora legally adopted

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe Thanos had Gamora legally adopted

Did Thanos require an interview to ask about whether he could provide a stable family life? Did he have to apply for this adoption agency by filling out paperwork and how long did he have to wait? Was he asked how he'd transport Gamora to and from school and did he reply it was in the Thanos copter?

 

[Spider-Fan]

On this father front, the answer is obvious: this movie wasn't written when they filmed Endgame. Hence why they went with her birth parents and not her adopted one. It is really no more complicated than that

 

[Fosterson]

Did Thanos require an interview to ask about whether he could provide a stable family life?

Well, to be fair there was that one time in the comics when he celebrated Christmas with Gamora and even gave her presents!

Did he have to apply for this adoption agency by filling out paperwork and how long did he have to wait?

Well, he did invade her home planet and massacre half her people, so I'd say that requires a decent bit of paperwork.

Was he asked how he'd transport Gamora to and from school and did he reply it was in the Thanos copter?

Why use the Thanos Copter when you can use this bad-boy instead?

Btw, I like to think that Thanos has a secret hangar on Sanctuary 2 where he keeps the Thanos Copter hidden, and takes it joy-riding while the Black Order are asleep, 'cos he's too embarrassed to be seen in it by anyone else.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The fact that Alexei is still alive when the movie ends means that I hope we see more of him in the future.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

General Ross was coming for Natasha at the end and it looked like she was going to surrender. How did she escape so that it said "2 weeks later" and she was walking round free and going to rescue the other Avengers?

I think the idea they were going for is that Ross and his army cronies are so below BW's skill level that dealing with them isn't even a problem for her.

Like, imagining the same scenario with Batman and a bunch of army guys I feel like the audience would instantly get the idea. BW isn't quite Batman though so maybe the writers were being too ambitious.

 

[BobJM]

Melina mentioned Nat's genetic potential is why she was sought out for the Red Room. Subtle hint of some type of Infinity Formula?

I have no problem with action heroes surviving death-defying stunts but I have to admit that watching Nat fall from the 3-story window, & hitting 2 exterior pipes on the building facade before landing on her feet was pretty over-the-top.

 

[Albright]

Interesting fact (hope no one spotted that already) - Val is using an iPad to show Yelena Hawkeye ( oddly a pretty old iPad model)
If you know Apples policy towards usage of their devices in movies, you know what that means...

 

[Dark Raven]

Interesting fact (hope no one spotted that already) - Val is using an iPad to show Yelena Hawkeye ( oddly a pretty old iPad model)
If you know Apples policy towards usage of their devices in movies, you know what that means...

I don't use Apple at all, so what does that mean?

 

[fan4stic]

I don't get how Yelena is a "morally whitewashed" version of Natasha. She seems WAY more morally grey than Nat ever was in the MCU. Nat came in guilt-ridden and trying to wipe out the red on her ledger. Yelena seems perfectly fine with killing. She bazooka'd that prison guard just for doing his job. And now she's gone straight back into contract killing, just on her own terms now. Which is, you know, worse than being forced to do it...

I think Yelena has the benefit of being outright mind controlled and having moral high ground stances over Natasha.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

I've been wondering if the scene with Natasha watching Moonraker was a subtle nod to the Red Room being a secret base floating in the sky.

 

[Web-Head]

I've been wondering if the scene with Natasha watching Moonraker was a subtle nod to the Red Room being a secret base floating in the sky.

That would make a lot of sense. I hadn't thought about that

 

[Dark Raven]

I've been wondering if the scene with Natasha watching Moonraker was a subtle nod to the Red Room being a secret base floating in the sky.

Probably. The end was more like a Roger Moore James Bond movie than any recent Daniel Craig ones. Moonraker also had a bunch of women who were part of Drax's crew, similar to all these Black Widows. Also the sky dive was similar to the opening skydiving sequence in Moonraker.

Also in Lost in Translation which also starred ScarJo, the Japanese people's favourite Bond was Roger Moore.

 

[Dark Raven]

What Marvel did with Taskmaster in keeping Olga Kurylenko a secret is what they should've done with Hannah John Kamen in Ant-Man and the Wasp. Ghost was one of these characters who should've been a mystery.

I hope we'll get more surprise casting in the MCU.

 

[fan4stic]

What Marvel did with Taskmaster in keeping Olga Kurylenko a secret is what they should've done with Hannah John Kamen in Ant-Man and the Wasp. Ghost was one of these characters who should've been a mystery.

I hope we'll get more surprise casting in the MCU.

I don't agree. I prefer Ghost far more over what they did with that character. More time spent with the character as a person, more engagement into her backstory, more seeing her personal relationship. I think the character in BW is mostly an empty shell of a character in comparison, with no real reason to keep her a secret (similar to what I think that Ghost would be) or hide her in male looking body suit for some reason, rather than a needless twist.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I think Yelena has the benefit of being outright mind controlled and having moral high ground stances over Natasha.

For her days with the Red Room, yeah, but she clearly has no qualms over killing when she isn't fighting her "sisters." And, as I mentioned before, the post-credits scene implies she's returned to contract killing of her own accord during the gap between BW and Endgame.

 

[fan4stic]

For her days with the Red Room, yeah, but she clearly has no qualms over killing when she isn't fighting her "sisters." And, as I mentioned before, the post-credits scene implies she's returned to contract killing of her own accord during the gap between BW and Endgame.

But I don't think that's something the movie really thinks about, for the character.

I think that's a weak thing to have for the character, but it also doesn't fix my issue with this movie, as is.