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The Superior Spider-Man

Its impossible to have a long several year spanning #1 on top run. You're going to hit a snag eventually. you can have an acclaimed story arc or two.... But eventually one won't be nearly as good or inthrawling as those that came before
 
In that I agree.

Crap for temporary boosts is annoying, but I honestly think that's about all the industry has these days. There are good books with good writers that can get leveled sales, but not enough to make the profit the comics probably need. So they need gimmicks.

I'm curious what will happen if and when the gimmicks stop working.

You do make a good point. There are some truly amazing books that barely turn heads where as the gimmicks seem to he the bread and butter of driving sales momentum for chart toppers.
 
In that I agree.

Crap for temporary boosts is annoying, but I honestly think that's about all the industry has these days. There are good books with good writers that can get leveled sales, but not enough to make the profit the comics probably need. So they need gimmicks.

I'm curious what will happen if and when the gimmicks stop working.

I think the big two would be in BIG trouble. They get really jumpy when anybody mentions Robert Kirkman and Walking Dead around them and he's at Image.
 
I gave two rough estimates that were not too far off in time frame or sales numbers. You are making a semantic argument, yet in the process wound up proving my point. The entire title was an effort to spark new sales. Sales picked up momentarily, sales have since dropped by a significant margin. That is the key issue, not niggling over the specificity of my claim. Ultimately, the book has average sales and interest in the gimmick has waned.

A couple of things...

1) you were off on both time frame and sales numbers. The last official numbers were from January, and that's thirteen months since the beginning, the the very latest issue had the worst number (72k), and that figure is more than 20% higher than the average ASM issues pre-698 to 700 (which was around 60k)

Which brings me to point #2...

2) Clearly, the gimmick may have waned somewhat, but only since December... Aside from the initial three issues, this book has averaged 85k +/- for most of 2013, always ranking in the Top Ten for monthly sales (both issues). You say the book has average sales...lol...the Big Two only wished ALL of their books had the same "average sales"

I didn't prove your point... I proved you just like talking out of your ass.

Have a nice day.

:yay:
 
TMOB,

You are an uncouth individual and it is rather unbecoming for a grown man. For as long as you have been here on the Hype (this is not my original user account), I assumed that you would have matured by now, yet you seem so steadfast in your arrogance that you seem to believe that your flamboyant remarks actually display some sort of higher position. It is really sad, and I can see why another poster referred to you as smug. I don't really care about the accuracy of the numbers, as the actual numbers were not my point. You are so caught up in attempting to appear correct that you have, in a telling bout of ignorance, continued to miss the point. My issue is that gimmicks only garner short term gains, and as evinced through the sales history of this book (estimated or actual), consumer interest has faded. So while you wish to piss away time, good will and some much needed humility, debating over a point I wasn't making, I'll stick to my initial claim.

Superior has gone from chart topping to around average performance for a leading Spider-Man title. By the by, check the 2008 sales history for Slotts initial run on AMS (which I called for in my first post). BND followed a near identical trend of the first three months doing exceptionally well, followed by diminishing returns each subsequent month.

Oh, and if you bothered to review the site you sourced (or perhaps you chose to omit this information), you'd see that sales for Superior started to take a dip in July to 80k. I'm so, so sorry that I estimated 68k-77k as an AVERAGE. I know those 3k-6k missing issues were such a huge deficit in my ESTIMATE (just so you know "~" signifies estimates). With that said, the drop in Superior's performance didn't happen last month as you incorrectly asserted. July is a far cry from December. Also, I love how you seem to be willing to use averages and estimates for your own post, yet have the gall to accost someone else for doing the same. You keep winning at life with that attitude buddy. And just so you know, I don't have nice or even good days. My days are fantastic. And with two Whovian references in one post, I'm out!
 
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A couple of things...

1) you were off on both time frame and sales numbers. The last official numbers were from January, and that's thirteen months since the beginning, the the very latest issue had the worst number (72k), and that figure is more than 20% higher than the average ASM issues pre-698 to 700 (which was around 60k)

Which brings me to point #2...

2) Clearly, the gimmick may have waned somewhat, but only since December... Aside from the initial three issues, this book has averaged 85k +/- for most of 2013, always ranking in the Top Ten for monthly sales (both issues). You say the book has average sales...lol...the Big Two only wished ALL of their books had the same "average sales"

I didn't prove your point... I proved you just like talking out of your ass.

Have a nice day.

:yay:

He may be talking out his ass (as you so eloquently put it) about numbers (which isn't his point anyway) but at least he's not acting like one.

Calm down no one is threatening you . This is a prime example of you acting smug and it almost comes off as bullying. Your thoughts and opinions are no greater than others.

And placing a smiley at the end doesn't suddenly make your posts innocent. It comes off very Dolris Umbridge -ish and condescending.
 
TMOB,

You are an uncouth individual and it is rather unbecoming for a grown man. For as long as you have been here on the Hype (this is not my original user account), I assumed that you would have matured by now, yet you seem so steadfast in your arrogance that you seem to believe that your flamboyant remarks actually display some sort of higher position. It is really sad, and I can see why another poster referred to you as smug. I don't really care about the accuracy of the numbers, as the actual numbers were not my point. You are so caught up in attempting to appear correct that you have, in a telling bout of ignorance, continued to miss the point. My issue is that gimmicks only garner short term gains, and as evinced through the sales history of this book (estimated or actual), consumer interest has faded. So while you wish to piss away time, good will and some much needed humility, debating over a point I wasn't making, I'll stick to my initial claim.

Superior has gone from chart topping to around average performance for a leading Spider-Man title. By the by, check the 2008 sales history for Slotts initial run on AMS (which I called for in my first post). BND followed a near identical trend of the first three months doing exceptionally well, followed by diminishing returns each subsequent month.

Oh, and if you bothered to review the site you sourced (or perhaps you chose to omit this information), you'd see that sales for Superior started to take a dip in July to 80k. I'm so, so sorry that I estimated 68k-72k as an AVERAGE. I know those 8k-12k missing issues were such a huge deficit in my ESTIMATE (just so you know "~" signifies estimates). With that said, the drop in Superior's performance didn't happen last month as you incorrectly asserted. July is a far cry from December. Also, I love how you seem to be willing to use averages and estimates for your own post, yet have the gall to accost someone else for doing the same. You keep winning at life with that attitude buddy. And just so you know, I don't have nice or even good days. My days are fantastic. And with two Whovian references in one post, I'm out!

:up:
 
If you actually made a factual claim, then your point might have carried some validity... but by June, SIX months after #1 came out, Superior Spider-Man was still selling strong with constant Top Ten sales... in fact, in June, #12 sold at 82 000+ copies and that was the lowest seller in the first 6 months... by August 2013, (#15 & #16), the book had finally dipped below 80k to 78k each... sales jumped back to the 80's in September & October... (those 4 books sold at about 89k, 80k. 83k & 85k)... in November, #21 sold a paltry 74k, while #22 sold 81k

Only in December & January... a YEAR after it's initial release, have we seen sales hover in the 70k's with the lowest issue selling at 72k (issue #26)...

Prior to "Dying Wish" (ASM #698-700), ASM was selling around 60k...

I think the concept of Superior Spider-Man, at least sales-wise, has been far more than "some half-baked idea to scare up reader interest for the short term".

:yay:

Source: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

TMOB,

You are an uncouth individual and it is rather unbecoming for a grown man. For as long as you have been here on the Hype (this is not my original user account), I assumed that you would have matured by now, yet you seem so steadfast in your arrogance that you seem to believe that your flamboyant remarks actually display some sort of higher position. It is really sad, and I can see why another poster referred to you as smug. I don't really care about the accuracy of the numbers, as the actual numbers were not my point. You are so caught up in attempting to appear correct that you have, in a telling bout of ignorance, continued to miss the point. My issue is that gimmicks only garner short term gains, and as evinced through the sales history of this book (estimated or actual), consumer interest has faded. So while you wish to piss away time, good will and some much needed humility, debating over a point I wasn't making, I'll stick to my initial claim.

Superior has gone from chart topping to around average performance for a leading Spider-Man title. By the by, check the 2008 sales history for Slotts initial run on AMS (which I called for in my first post). BND followed a near identical trend of the first three months doing exceptionally well, followed by diminishing returns each subsequent month.

Oh, and if you bothered to review the site you sourced (or perhaps you chose to omit this information), you'd see that sales for Superior started to take a dip in July to 80k. I'm so, so sorry that I estimated 68k-77k as an AVERAGE. I know those 3k-6k missing issues were such a huge deficit in my ESTIMATE (just so you know "~" signifies estimates). With that said, the drop in Superior's performance didn't happen last month as you incorrectly asserted. July is a far cry from December. Also, I love how you seem to be willing to use averages and estimates for your own post, yet have the gall to accost someone else for doing the same. You keep winning at life with that attitude buddy. And just so you know, I don't have nice or even good days. My days are fantastic. And with two Whovian references in one post, I'm out!

Hi... I'm glad you find me so charming... :yay:

I quoted myself above so you can see where I indicated in bold that sales did slip twice below 80k (78k) before returning to an 84k average for the following four issues... So yes, I did bother looking at the site I sourced. Maybe you could bother reading my posts before attacking my character. After all, I'm reading yours so I can make my assessment more valid. :yay:

Calm down no one is threatening you . This is a prime example of you acting smug and it almost comes off as bullying. Your thoughts and opinions are no greater than others.

And placing a smiley at the end doesn't suddenly make your posts innocent. It comes off very Dolris Umbridge -ish and condescending.

I'm not sure why you're telling me to "calm down".... I'm fine.

I've been laying in bed recovering from surgery, and all I did was call someone out for making false statements, as if they were factual.... Most people don't like being called out, and it's easy to play the "TMoB is such a bully" card because I've got history for calling people out on their BS...

I've never stated that my opinion is better than anyone else's, and I've had eloquent disagreements with many people on this board over a 14 year period that can attest to that... So if you think I believe that, that's your own insecurities at work, and nor is it my problem.

And if you believe the smilie face is condescending, again, that's your issue.

Cheers.

:yay:
 
Sorry -_-

You don't have to apologize to me, I'm just pointing out that you guys are getting out of hand before a mod comes along. They tend to not be so nice about these things. They'll drop the hammer and keep it moving.
 
I quoted myself above so you can see where I indicated in bold that sales did slip twice below 80k (78k) before returning to an 84k average for the following four issues...

Upon review, you did indeed make that concession, so granted. I was too hasty on that call. So I apologize. However, that makes it all the more curious that you note the same sales drops I noted, and then act as if I made some egregious claim when in fact, as I said, the sales did drop. During January, sales were at 188k, now they are below 85k, that is over 103k drop. That is a pronounced drop. And when comparing to Slotts run on AMS, though BND did not start off as high as 188k, it did start off high and similarly dropped to the realm of below 90k, which is usually where a lead Spidey title rests after a gimmick has lost mass interest.

all I did was call someone out for making false statements, as if they were factual....

I made estimates, that were not too far off from the actual figures. 68k-77k is not much of a difference even if we are addressing the higher end of the drop (85k) and certainly if we are taking note of the lower end of the drop (78k). Admittedly, I could have spent the extra three minutes to do a google search for exact figures, but I imagined that when giving estimates and making a case about reader interest and gimmicks, that exact numbers weren't necessary to making the point. Especially considering that the sales drop is common knowledge regardless of knowing exact figures. Others seem to have caught on to that, but that point seems to have eluded your understanding.

Some how, even with ample context clues such as the use of "~" (approximate), "about" and "roughly", you seem to believe that I was making "false statements." Firstly, I was correct that sales did drop, so your assertion is asinine. Secondly, approximations may not be accurate, but that is not the same (semantically or objectively) as making false statements. I could only have given a false statement if I said Superior Spider-Man saw a decline in sales and the actual case happened to be that the book saw a steady climb in sales or maintained its initial sales levels for an extended period (e.g. Batman: Hush).

I argued (correctly) that sales dropped by a large enough margin to indicate that reader interest has waned. You may want to niggle over the margin of the drop, but such a discussion would not negate the reality of my claim. The absurdity of your rationale is disturbingly surreal. And your devotion to derailment is surprising because Hype is one of the few internet forums not overrun with trolls and troll-like behavior. You aren't known for troll-like behavior, but you are certainly pushing the boundary with your misguided contrarian ways.
 
Lol... I'm 46 years old.... I'm not really sure what a "troll" is... Aside the fact that it's not good...

Look, at the end of the day, I agree with you in that modern comics are filled with a lot of flash-in-the-pan ideas that would make the majority of the 60's & 70's Marvel writers cringe... And they never have any real lasting consequences...

However, and I'm not sure if you're even reading Superior Spider-Man, I believe that it's been a nice organic story with lots of interesting plot lines & twists... And it's going to have a lasting effect on Peter Parker when he comes back... So in MY opinion, it's much more than a simple gimmick...

And yes, initial sales were over 100k... Not surprising for a new Spidey #1 following the heels of a very successful ASM #700, but sales did stabilize quickly around the 80k to 85k range for most of 2013 barring a couple of noticeable dips in August & December... I look at these numbers as being more consistent rather than the continual rapid drops many "gimmick" stories tend to get.

Perhaps I pigeonholed your initial post based on the raw data rather than the ideas behind them, but I only did so because I knew those numbers were not exactly correct... Sometimes I can get a tad nit picky...

Anyhoo, enjoy the remainder of your weekend.

Cheers...

:yay:
 
However, and I'm not sure if you're even reading Superior Spider-Man, I believe that it's been a nice organic story with lots of interesting plot lines & twists... And it's going to have a lasting effect on Peter Parker when he comes back... So in MY opinion, it's much more than a simple gimmick...

I am not castigating the arc in and of itself. Though I don't always agree with Marvel's events, I believe in the past decade the only two events I took serious issue with were Civil War and OMD. However, I recognize that good stories can be told even within events that I do not approve of. As much as I still loathe OMD, I mostly enjoyed BND, if for no other reason than it reads very much like late 70s, early 80s Spider-Man (down to bringing back the element of a strong supporting cast and recycling villain and character roles, e.g. Carlie = Gwen, Menace = Green Goblin, Harry exists again etc).

My complaint isn't with the quality of Superior in and of itself. Though I have taken a year long break from current Spider-Man titles, I have heard nothing but glowing reviews for the book, both online and at my LCS. I am excited for Peter Parker's return, not just as an ardent fan of Parker but to see how he handles the aftermath of Ock's tenure in his body.

Where I am displeased is with the many attempts to establish a new status quo or with marketing that exaggerates what amounts to an extended arc as if it will be the new status quo. The rationale is sound; give readers something new about the book in order to attract their attention. However, the execution is often questionable, if not misleading. An arc in which Doc Ock switches bodies with Peter Parker? Sounds awesome. An event in which you tell everyone that Peter Parker is being replaced for good? Comes across as a gimmick.

I don't blame fans for the skepticism. We can blame the industry for "killing Superman" and "paralyzing Batman" (and Tony Stark for that matter) and replacing them with new faces in old roles. They were gimmicks then and the market has never really gotten over that. It is sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario, because I understand the need to take daring steps to keep reader interest. However, the methodology just seems rather off.

As an example, House of M was written nearly a decade ago, yet the effects of that story have guided the X-Men comic franchise ever since then, with Messiah Complex and a host of other follow up stories. In fact, the current direction of Cyclops' leadership is deeply influenced by the dearth of mutants, a direct consequence of the end of House of M. Even if a person hates that story, no one can call it a gimmick because it was an actual moment of organic plot progression.

Conversely, we get told that Ock is replacing Peter for good, yet here we are a year later and they are scrapping the plot line because a new Spider-Man movie is out in theaters. All the X-Men movies in the world didn't make Marvel change the direction of the X-Men titles in light of M-Day, yet we see Marvel running back to Peter just to catch those casual readers that wander into a comic shop amid Spidey fever. It just reeks of gimmick rather than organic story telling.

By the by, I accept your humble retraction and similarly extend a bit of grace. I was a bit too hasty in my defensiveness. I should have instead brushed off your initial insult and merely made an effort to better explain the post with which you took issue. It may have averted an entire diatribe. So my apologies.
 
May I ask what does that have to do with superior Spider-man?
 
Anytime I see a thread with this name I start getting fears they are going to have Otto replace Peter again.
 
All I know is, I finished this series last month, and the last issue was awesome. I enjoyed a whole lot of the Superior run.
 
All I know is, I finished this series last month, and the last issue was awesome. I enjoyed a whole lot of the Superior run.

As did I, however it was just the right length and I'm glad they moved on.
 
Pete's return was rushed and anti-climatic. The series was great though.
 
I just finished the series last week, and I've been subscribed to TASM since the relaunch and I've gotta say I enjoyed Superior Spidey a lot, I don't prefer it over Peter but it was a lot of fun.

Thing is how do we know for sure if Otto really deleted himself from Peter's brain, who's to say he won't resurface and strike back? After all Peter managed to come back after being deleted. I have my doubts that this is the last we've seen of Otto in Peter's head. Unless this has been explained in another book, what ever happened to Otto's body anyway? It clearly wasn't buried.

It's a shame we haven't really got to see much of Peter dealing with the aftermath of Otto taking over his life. Hopefully with Spider-Verse finished we can get back to that.
 
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I just finished the series last week, and I've been subscribed to TASM since the relaunch and I've gotta say I enjoyed Superior Spidey a lot, I don't prefer it over Peter but it was a lot of fun.

Thing is how do we know for sure if Otto really deleted himself from Peter's brain, who's to say he won't resurface and strike back? After all Peter managed to come back after being deleted. I have my doubts that this is the last we've seen of Otto in Peter's head. Unless this has been explained in another book, what ever happened to Otto's body anyway? It clearly wasn't buried.

It's a shame we haven't really got to see much of Peter dealing with the aftermath of Otto taking over his life. Hopefully with Spider-Verse finished we can get back to that.

It also wouldn't surprise me that (for a more limited time) it happens again at some point. Though I think what is more likely is at some point Otto back as Doc Ock. I did enjoy the series as well but was more than ready for Pete's return when he did.
 

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