The Talon

[RickO'Connell]

The Dark Knight was a good movie but it has its fair share of problems that in my opinion stops it from being perfect. It is far from perfect but an amazing step up in terms of Batman movies & it is far from "the greatest movie ever"

 

[COMPO]

Their's the problem

Unlike Batman, Superman is un-realistic , not to mention he really doesn't have an Extraordinary set of Rogue Gallery of Villains , His supporting Cast members aren't as dynamic as Alfred or Gordon (Dick, Tim, Barbara, Bullock & Montoya , Dr. Leslie Thompkins , and finally Selina Kyle) Especially once Jonathan & Martha Kent are gone . Lois Lane is a strong an integral part of The Superman mythology . But after her & Jimmy , Perry, Cat Grant (Supergirl & Krypto) Who else do you have ?


One of the things I like about Nolan's direction in telling Batman story is that he takes The best parts of What makes Batman the Iconic figure that he is with his supporting cast members & Rogue Gallery Of Villains and incorporates The Best (Graphic Novels, The comic book storylines & BTAS) to work up a good story in a Realistic fashion . Before he worries about how much action should be in the film. He focus more on making sure The story is both good but also believable . That why he's had huge success with Batman Begins & The Dark Knight .

As I've said before Batman Begins Rasied The Bar, Nolan Surpassed it with The Dark Knight, he not only raised the Bar really high now, But he's Redefined The Superhero Genre FOREVER . If he does decide on doing a Third film .


HOW THE HELL IS HE GOING TO TOP THIS EPIC MASTERPIECE ????

they could do the same find good graphic novels and incorpoarte the story with superman and do a reboot. If they start from the beginning they should have Lex Luthor in it but, more as a supporting character and have the main villain be someone new and like show how Lex starts to hate Superman.

i'd like to think Lex would hate superman because he makes lex obsolete have him as a cunning business man who has his team luthor fight crime. superman arrives and does this with ease infuriating Luthor and a new villain arrives Parasite or Humanoid etc. and Team Luthor cant do anything and Superman stops it causing everyone to love him and Team Luthor being no longer needed.

 

[The Caped Knight]

they could do the same find good graphic novels and incorpoarte the story with superman and do a reboot. If they start from the beginning they should have Lex Luthor in it but, more as a supporting character and have the main villain be someone new and like show how Lex starts to hate Superman.

Their aren't that many Superman Graphic Novels on The Same level as

1. BATMAN : The Killing Joke

2. BATMAN : Year One

3. BATMAN : The Long Halloween

4. BATMAN : The Man Who Laughs

5. BATMAN : Arkham Asylum

6. BATMAN : The Dark Knight Returns

7. BATMAN : Hush

8. BATMAN : Dark Victory - ( The sequel to The Long Hallowen arc)

9. BATMAN : A Death In The Family

10. BATMAN : Knightfall


And as much as Lex Luthor is "The Greatest Criminal Mastermind of our time ". He's not The Joker . Their's a reason why The Clown Prince Of Crime is The Number one SuperVillain in The Superhero Genre .

Lex is Good , but he's not even in the same league as THE JOKER .

 

[heliorei]

Their's the problem

Unlike Batman, Superman is un-realistic , not to mention he really doesn't have an Extraordinary set of Rogue Gallery of Villains , His supporting Cast members aren't as dynamic as Alfred or Gordon (Dick, Tim, Barbara, Bullock & Montoya , Dr. Leslie Thompkins , and finally Selina Kyle) Especially once Jonathan & Martha Kent are gone . Lois Lane is a strong an integral part of The Superman mythology . But after her & Jimmy , Perry, Cat Grant (Supergirl & Krypto) Who else do you have ?

Batman is realistic? A guy wearing a costume at night like if it was halloween all year?

This is superhero genre movie and so fantasy is required not a established 100% reality.

But Do you want to see a "realistic" Superman?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Secret_Identity

Acclaimed by critics and Superman fans, it is one of the best Superman stories ever, even better than Superman:Red Son.

Supportive "cast"? Lois Lane and that's enough: not only it's a love story but basically one of big comic love stories everybody and I mean everybody knows: the Daily planet characters are more than enough and you want to add the Kents. besides, looking at batman, you have Alfred, Robin and Gordon while the others you have mentioned most of times are absent. Selina? Don't get me started...


The problem with Superman is that not everyone knows how write Superman: like The incredible Hulk (the Superherohype member) once said, Superman has to be an inspiration for everyone: men want to be like him and women want him.

What Donner did at the time was excellent but time is a train and it doesn't go back: Superman needs another treatment, another vision.

One of the things I like about Nolan's direction in telling Batman story is that he takes The best parts of What makes Batman the Iconic figure that he is with his supporting cast members & Rogue Gallery Of Villains and incorporates The Best (Graphic Novels, The comic book storylines & BTAS) to work up a good story in a Realistic fashion . Before he worries about how much action should be in the film. He focus more on making sure The story is both good but also believable . That why he's had huge success with Batman Begins & The Dark Knight .

As I've said before Batman Begins Rasied The Bar, Nolan Surpassed it with The Dark Knight, he not only raised the Bar really high now, But he's Redefined The Superhero Genre FOREVER . If he does decide on doing a Third film .


HOW THE HELL IS HE GOING TO TOP THIS EPIC MASTERPIECE ????

The thing about Batman and Nolan' s direction is, and think everyone will agree:

- the Excellent or better yet, perfect cast of actors

- A good foundation story and good story-telling

- Good production

Three essential things and they all have been covered.

Something which clearly failed in a certain movie...

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Their aren't that many Superman Graphic Novels on The Same level as

1. BATMAN : The Killing Joke

2. BATMAN : Year One

3. BATMAN : The Long Halloween

4. BATMAN : The Man Who Laughs

5. BATMAN : Arkham Asylum

6. BATMAN : The Dark Knight Returns

7. BATMAN : Hush

8. BATMAN : Dark Victory - ( The sequel to The Long Hallowen arc)

9. BATMAN : A Death In The Family

10. BATMAN : Knightfall

I'd put "Superman for All Seasons", "Man of Steel", "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow", "World Without a Superman", "Our Worlds at War", "Birthright", "Red Son", and "Up, Up, and Away"against those any day...

And as much as Lex Luthor is "The Greatest Criminal Mastermind of our time ". He's not The Joker . Their's a reason why The Clown Prince Of Crime is The Number one SuperVillain in The Superhero Genre .

Lex is Good , but he's not even in the same league as THE JOKER .

not according to DC Comics lore, as Luthor has "pwned" the Joker on numerous occasions.

 

[Cmill216]

Birthright is outstanding. The definitive Superman story in the modern era.

 

[COMPO]

whats taht one for tomorrow is that any good?

 

[blksuperman2]

whats taht one for tomorrow is that any good?

Not IMO. THe story was convoluted at best.

Spoiler

Supes spends a whole year trying to find out why a number of people to include Lois Lane disappear. Towards the end Supes realizes that he actually developed the technology that caused the disappearance but somehow forgot??

If you're a fan of Jim Lee I'd check it out. The art isn't his best but it's still good.

 

[RickO'Connell]

HOW THE HELL IS HE GOING TO TOP THIS EPIC MASTERPIECE ????

The only thing he has to top is the Joker which will be very hard to do. The rest will be no problem & I have given up hope that Bale would practice that Batman voice

 

[RakuMon]

But Do you want to see a "realistic" Superman?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Secret_Identity

Acclaimed by critics and Superman fans, it is one of the best Superman stories ever, even better than Superman:Red Son.

Supportive "cast"? Lois Lane and that's enough: not only it's a love story but basically one of big comic love stories everybody and I mean everybody knows: the Daily planet characters are more than enough and you want to add the Kents. besides, looking at batman, you have Alfred, Robin and Gordon while the others you have mentioned most of times are absent. Selina? Don't get me started...


The problem with Superman is that not everyone knows how write Superman: like The incredible Hulk (the Superherohype member) once said, Superman has to be an inspiration for everyone: men want to be like him and women want him.

I've long been an advocate of adapting Kurt Busiek's Secret Identity into a movie. I've argued on this board in the past that if WB really had some cojone's, they'd reboot their entire franchise based on that graphic novel and have Charlie Kauffman (Being John Malkovich) write it!

[/I]I'd put "Superman for All Seasons", "Man of Steel", "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow", "World Without a Superman", "Our Worlds at War", "Birthright", "Red Son", and "Up, Up, and Away"against those any day...

not according to DC Comics lore, as Luthor has "pwned" the Joker on numerous occasions.

I still prefer Bats to Supes, but I agree those are pretty good Superman GNs (though I wouldn't put "Our Worlds at War" on the list). I also think Lex Luthor: Man of Steel is pretty fantastic.

Birthright is outstanding. The definitive Superman story in the modern era.

Definitely my favorite Superman story ever.

 

[RickO'Connell]

Birthright is outstanding. The definitive Superman story in the modern era.

An "awesome" adaption of that would make fan boys pee their pants & would be a nice reboot starting with "Birthright" & would make The Dark Knight look like House Party. But alas the WB is so far up Donner's ass they will never leave it

 

[NHawk19]

not to mention he really doesn't have an Extraordinary set of Rogue Gallery of Villains , His supporting Cast members aren't as dynamic as Alfred or Gordon (Dick, Tim, Barbara, Bullock & Montoya , Dr. Leslie Thompkins , and finally Selina Kyle) Especially once Jonathan & Martha Kent are gone . Lois Lane is a strong an integral part of The Superman mythology . But after her & Jimmy , Perry, Cat Grant (Supergirl & Krypto) Who else do you have ?

Actually I hadn't thought about that part. Who are \S/ supporting characters that can actually know who he is and provide some sort of support? My list is essentially the same as yours, but most aren't supposed to know Clark is \S/. Once I started to delve deeper the people that know and can in some way support Clark are also heroes in their own right.

The other thing I noticed when I started to do this was the lack large quality story arcs to pick from in Supes world, which are also in continuity. The best known are the Doomsday arc and the origin.

Anybody else think of good arcs to use from the comics?

Of course as I'm writing this I've noticed other responses, so far we've got:

Birthright (great place to start IMHO)
World w/o a Superman (Kind of tough for a 1st or 2nd movie)
Superman for All Seasons (Not bad for some general info)
Our Worlds at war (Not Familiar with this one)
Up Up and Away (Not Familiar with this one)
Red Sun (isnt this an else Worlds about Superman in Russia?)

 

[COMPO]

well there are loads of characters i mean Prof Hamilton coudl be like the Fox character in the Superman movie except instead of giving him gadgets he could study the Kryptonite and its effects and were Superman came from for Supes.

When first starting out Lois could take Clark to see Bibbo for information.

Captain Stacey could be trying to nail Luthor like Gordon but unlike Gordon she isn't giving up.

 

[The Caped Knight]

well there are loads of characters i mean Prof Hamilton coudl be like the Fox character in the Superman movie except instead of giving him gadgets he could study the Kryptonite and its effects and were Superman came from for Supes.

When first starting out Lois could take Clark to see Bibbo for information.

Captain Stacey could be trying to nail Luthor like Gordon but unlike Gordon she isn't giving up.

First off
1. Captain Stacy is from Spider-Man (He's Gwen Stacy Father)

Second
2. The name your looking for is Maggie Sawyer

 

[Prison Mike]

well there are loads of characters i mean Prof Hamilton coudl be like the Fox character in the Superman movie except instead of giving him gadgets he could study the Kryptonite and its effects and were Superman came from for Supes.

When first starting out Lois could take Clark to see Bibbo for information.

Captain Stacey could be trying to nail Luthor like Gordon but unlike Gordon she isn't giving up.

since when did Gordon give up?

 

[The Caped Knight]

since when did Gordon give up?

He never has .

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Their aren't that many Superman Graphic Novels on The Same level as

1. BATMAN : The Killing Joke

2. BATMAN : Year One

3. BATMAN : The Long Halloween

4. BATMAN : The Man Who Laughs

5. BATMAN : Arkham Asylum

6. BATMAN : The Dark Knight Returns

7. BATMAN : Hush

8. BATMAN : Dark Victory - ( The sequel to The Long Hallowen arc)

9. BATMAN : A Death In The Family

10. BATMAN : Knightfall


And as much as Lex Luthor is "The Greatest Criminal Mastermind of our time ". He's not The Joker . Their's a reason why The Clown Prince Of Crime is The Number one SuperVillain in The Superhero Genre .

Lex is Good , but he's not even in the same league as THE JOKER .

Here are 10 graphic novels that can compete with them.

1. Superman: Birthright
2. Superman: For Tomorrow (and this is a great book if you read it all at once instead of issue by issue)
3. Superman: Up, Up, And Away
4. Superman: Last Son
5. Superman and the Legion of Superheroes
6. Superman: Ruin
7. Superman: For All Seasons
8. Superman: what ever happened to the man of tomorrow
9. Superman: Secret Identity
10. Superman[SIZE=-1]: Sacrifice[/SIZE]
11. All-Star Superman vol 1

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Serene IMO the only way The Superman franchise might even have a chance to come out of the rut it's basically in is to Re-Boot The Franchise for a modern era .

Leave The Donner Legacy Behind and start fresh like BATMAN .

Kal, truer words have never been spoken. This is what they need to do in order to bring respect back to the film franchise. Re-boot and move on.

As far as The Dark Knight is concerned, I'm a
sad panda. I won't get to see it till next weekend, if then, and all this talk makes me want to see it really badly.

You do not have to reboot the series for Superman to work all Singer has to do is move away from Donner and make his own Superman movie not Donner or what Donner would have liked or done. Superman is not beyond repair it just needs a good story and plenty of action. The main change I saw in The Dark Knight that really improved the movie for me then Begins was that they slowed Batman's fighting down and actually showed him fighting instead of the camera acting like he moves to fast that you can't capture it. If Singer does what COMPO said below then the next movie will be fine.

for superman they need to leave donner behind
have more villians
get rid of the kid
and have a better story
and stop with land plots

The main thing we Superman fans need to understand though is Superman is not the number hero of the world anymore.

 

[COMPO]

I've been thinking what if they did a reboot of Superman but unlike the other movies in the movie Lois isn't in love with Superman its like in Man of Steel she's always out trying to catch him but never getting the story until like in the finale were she meets him and falls for him because to me in Superman 2 were she says ' i love you' I did not believe her just didn't feel like after that short bit of time she would love him. So I think it would be interesting if at first he's just a journalistic obsession, then a infaction, then romantic affection.

 

[blksuperman2]

Here are 10 graphic novels that can compete with them.

1. Superman: Birthright
2. Superman: For Tomorrow (and this is a great book if you read it all at once instead of issue by issue)
3. Superman: Up, Up, And Away
4. Superman: Last Son
5. Superman and the Legion of Superheroes
6. Superman: Ruin
7. Superman: For Tomorrow
8. Superman: what ever happened to the man of tomorrow
9. Superman: Secret Identity
10. Superman[SIZE=-1]: Sacrifice[/SIZE]
11. All-Star Superman vol 1

LOL. You liked For Tomorrow? You must really have, to give two places in your top 11. I honestly thought that : Godfall was better.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Superman: For Tomorrow (and this is a great book if you read it all at once instead of issue by issue)

Isnt that what a graphic novel is?

 

[Brainiac 8]

Birthright or Up, up, and away would make fantastic Superman movies.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Actually I hadn't thought about that part. Who are \S/ supporting characters that can actually know who he is and provide some sort of support? My list is essentially the same as yours, but most aren't supposed to know Clark is \S/. Once I started to delve deeper the people that know and can in some way support Clark are also heroes in their own right.

0. F.O.S. Holographic - Jor-EL & Lara

1. Lois Lane Kent

2. Jonathan & Martha Kent

3. Jimmy Olsen

4. Perry White

5. Cat Grant

6. Professor Hamilton

7. Dan Turpin & Maggie Sawyer

8. Kara Zor-EL / Kara Kent / Supergirl

9. Krypto

10. Kon-EL / Conner Kent / superboy

11. Bibbo Bibbowski

 

[COMPO]

finally saw The Dark Knight and it was amazing... Heath Ledger was terrifying especially

Spoiler

when he's telling the black guy how he got his scars and has teh knife in the guys mouth.. i was shattin myself

 

[triplet]

Some people get too wrapped up in their fantasies...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/oukoe_uk_comiccon_wedding

I love Star Wars, but that is taking it a bit too far... Although, I'm sure it was probably a fun wedding for everyone.