The Talon

[Gmanofsteel]

humorous how AICN doesnt even get the poor schlub's name correct

*snickers*

 

[b24]

i agree with incredible hulk that superman is not who we are

superman is what we CAN be

which brings me a scene in Bizarro where clark disucesse with chloe that when he looked at bizarro he saw the man he can become which IMO was well done scene and that also shwoed if clark really wants he could do anything with his powers like bizarro did) but he uses his power for good

i think if batman had superman's powers he wouldn't hesitate to use any extreme measuers to get he wants

and take christopher reeve for example why people said he is superman in real life ???

why didn't say let's see he is like batman in real life

or let's say if we want some kid(5 or 8 yrs old) to get inspired by some superhero which character would u like to think of batman or superman 1st

 

[Migu-EL]

You can say all you want about me. I really don't care . The fact of the matter is Superman is unrelateable . and he always will be .

Batman on the other hand is much more possible even Bale said it .

"Batman has no superpowers whatsoever so it really is a Man. And we want to give the impression Ok if your fit enough, if you have these skills . This could be possible to do ." ~ Christian Bale


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMesmezdYdk


Also Check out The History Chancel's the documentary on Batman . Batman Unmasked: The Phsychology of the Dark knight

Delve into the world of Batman and the vigilante justice that he brought to the city of Gotham. Batman is a man who, after experiencing great tragedy, devotes his life to an ideal--but what happens when one man takes on the evil underworld alone? Examine why Batman is who he is--and explore how a boy scarred by tragedy becomes a symbol of hope to everyone else.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6MzqoubRAo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHkcBz7g0QA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEcfRDO_Psk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9vEa9Yj1Mc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6iclAwwJDA

Wow.....That went right over your head.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

The thing is that Singer failed to come up with a story that really drilled down to why Superman is still relevant character.

Clark Kent has flaws, he's not perfect so him not being "human" isn't why he apparently doesn't have appeal.

He's not as dark as Bruce, true, but isn't being the last member of your race pretty damn dark?

Added to that, he can jump to conclusions, make rash decisions, punch first and ask questions later, so he isn't perfect.

I think the trick is to come up with a story that shows how human Clark can be, despite his powers, and that is something that Singer didn't do. He made Clark reactive, instead of proactive. It's one of the things people complain about Smallville, Clark's too passive.

Give him a dilemma where his powers do him absolutely no good, or are even a detriment (like that OMAC storyline they were supposedly going to use for the JLA film), and that'd be something I'd love to see...

Have someone who can whip his butt instead of a campy land grab scheme, that'll probably do the trick.

Singer did all of this with Superman Returns. He gave Superman a dilemma he where his powers could not help him the problem with it was how poorly it was handled. The plot and shooting script was well done and did show why the world still needed a Superman but somewhere in the editing room all that got cut out of the movie even the stuff where it shows Lex cared more about getting even with Superman then land. And that was Superman Returns downfall not action or that it didn't follow SV or anything else (and I am not saying you said these things just some of the major complaints) because if you look at the first Superman movie it also has little to no action at all but the story was solid and that's why people love it. Superman Returns had a solid shooting script (even with Jason) but the editing room killed the movie. Clark and why the world needs a Superman was fully explained and hopefully they will release a directors cut of the movie and we can see all of this but Singer edited the movie poorly. IMO it still turned out to be a good movie but that is what hurt it IMO. As I have said before we as Superman fans will never get the Superman movie we want because so many of us have different views of Superman. Singer and any other director who comes aboard next if Singer does not return will have the same problem to deal with and that is many people have different views of Superman thanks to all the versions we have had over the years and the problem is you can't please everyone. For example some people may think SV Clark is how Superman should be but others may say Donner/Singer's Superman is how Superman should be, then some may say 30's-40's is how Superman should be, then some might say NF Superman is how Superman should be and Kingdom Come and so on.

Please Superman is the most unrelateable Superhero period . I could never be Superman because I'm not an alien from another planet who's a god among men & I'm not an overgrown boyscout who tries to be prefect. However I could be BATMAN . Because he's got no superpowers & he's not prefect . He's an ordinary guy Kicking ass and taken names .with such a badass style . (He basically puts all the other super powered heroes to shame .)

An this is why Superman will never do Batman and Spider-Man numbers because he is starting to be viewed by the public as a second rate hero. Well let me take that back in the public eye Superman is no longer as popular. He is still well known but nobody cares. This generation wants a hero they can relate to Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, Invincible, Iron Man. Superman to them is more of a thing of the past now people respect him and think his powers are cool but that is about it. For example I think Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever but now people say Kobe can beat Jordan in his prime or King James could beat Jordan without a problem. This how Superman is being viewed now by the public. And there is nothing wrong with that he is still seen as an important hero but compared to Spider-Man or Batman or X-men he is viewed as second rate to them and the comic sales show that as well.

Everyone wants to blame Singer for the troubles of Superman when those troubles where there long before Singer and if you look at the comic sales you'll see that Superman or Action Comics hasn't been DC number 1 book for sometime now. At one point the whole Bat-Family was out selling Superman so as I said before it is just how the public views heroes have changed.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

and take christopher reeve for example why people said he is superman in real life ???

People say Christopher Reeve was Superman in real life not because of how he played the hero but because of what he did and how he acted after he got hurt. That is what defined Reeve in many peoples eye. How even faced with all the stuff before him he never gave up and always kept fighting.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

You can say all you want about me. I really don't care . The fact of the matter is Superman is unrelateable . and he always will be .

of course he is. Because you say he is, then its so. Good logic there. I seriously hope you're not over 12 years old...

Batman on the other hand is much more possible even Bale said it .

"Batman has no superpowers whatsoever so it really is a Man. And we want to give the impression Ok if your fit enough, if you have these skills . This could be possible to do ." ~ Christian Bale

well hell if BALE said it, then it really must be true. I mean Christian Bale knows everything about everything.

Anyone who honestly believes that someone becoming Batman in real life is a realistic possibility is delusional fanboy who cant separate his fantasy from reality. The fact that the character lacks superpowers still doesnt make what he does any more plausible.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Singer did all of this with Superman Returns. He gave Superman a dilemma he where his powers could not help him the problem with it was how poorly it was handled. The plot and shooting script was well done and did show why the world still needed a Superman but somewhere in the editing room all that got cut out of the movie even the stuff where it shows Lex cared more about getting even with Superman then land. And that was Superman Returns downfall not action or that it didn't follow SV or anything else (and I am not saying you said these things just some of the major complaints) because if you look at the first Superman movie it also has little to no action at all but the story was solid and that's why people love it. Superman Returns had a solid shooting script (even with Jason) but the editing room killed the movie. Clark and why the world needs a Superman was fully explained and hopefully they will release a directors cut of the movie and we can see all of this but Singer edited the movie poorly. IMO it still turned out to be a good movie but that is what hurt it IMO. As I have said before we as Superman fans will never get the Superman movie we want because so many of us have different views of Superman. Singer and any other director who comes aboard next if Singer does not return will have the same problem to deal with and that is many people have different views of Superman thanks to all the versions we have had over the years and the problem is you can't please everyone. For example some people may think SV Clark is how Superman should be but others may say Donner/Singer's Superman is how Superman should be, then some may say 30's-40's is how Superman should be, then some might say NF Superman is how Superman should be and Kingdom Come and so on.

Just stop. Stop making excuses for Singer's dreck. It wasnt just the editing and there's been just as many incarnations of Batman over the years that there have been for Superman. That's not an excuse why Singerman failed. If you make the story compelling and respectful to the mythology, you'll find that you can get the buy in from the vast majority of fans and the general public. You've just seen a glaring example of that this summer. Do you know how many people still associate Batman with Adam West and Michael Keaton? A LOT. Yet they LOVE BB and TDK.

Singer failed to capture who the character of Superman was and what he stood for. He spurned the character's source mateiral and instead he did a poor homage to a 30 year old film, and used the character to push his own peronal plight on us. It also had a mediocre cast that had minimal chemistry together. It wasnt because there were plot points to his story left on the cutting room floor.

Look at two Batman films. Everything Singer dropped the ball on that I listed out above, Nolan and Co. got right. They respected the source material but gave the character an update for a new generation of fans. He redid the cast, the feel and look of the world,. the score, etc. Everything was original. He didnt inject his own personal issues into the film. The movie dealt with the characters actual issues. The cast was top notch and they all worked together and sold the story.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Just stop. Stop making excuses for Singer's dreck. It wasnt just the editing and there's been just as many incarnations of Batman over the years that there have been for Superman. That's not an excuse why Singerman failed. If you make the story compelling and respectful to the mythology, you'll find that you can get the buy in from the vast majority of fans and the general public. You've just seen a glaring example of that this summer. Do you know how many people still associate Batman with Adam West and Michael Keaton? A LOT. Yet they LOVE BB and TDK.

Singer failed to capture who the character of Superman was and what he stood for. He spurned the character's source mateiral and instead he did a poor homage to a 30 year old film, and used the character to push his own personal plight on us. It also had a mediocre cast that had minimal chemistry together. It wasnt because there were plot points to his story left on the cutting room floor.

Look at two Batman films. Everything Singer dropped the ball on that I listed out above, Nolan and Co. got right. They respected the source material but gave the character an update for a new generation of fans. He redid the cast, the feel and look of the world,. the score, etc. Everything was original. He didnt inject his own personal issues into the film. The movie dealt with the characters actual issues. The cast was top notch and they all worked together and sold the story.

I am going to call BS on that statement there. There are three main real version of Bruce Wayne's Batman The Batman before and during WWII, The Batman post WW II (Adam West Batman), then the Batman post COIE (Frank Millars Batman) which Nolan and Burton drew there Batman from as well as Kingdom Come and ll other stories really. Besides that fact then can we say SV has dropped the ball because it is just as loved as Superman Returns but also just as hated? I am not trying to make excuses for Singer. He did drop the ball in some places but he also did a great job in others and I thought all in all he did a good job could it have been better yes but non the less he did a good job. My point however is it is easier to make a Batman movie then a Superman movie because no matter where you go or how you look at it everyone has their own views of how Superman should be done and look at BT, here at the Hype and Save Superman and many other places each person be it fan or writter have there own view on how Superman should be that we will never agree. For example again some say Birthright is how Superman's origin should be, others say Man of Steel is how it should be, then others say pre-crisis origins are how it should be and then some say how Donner did it was the right way so which one is right? I am not making excuses for Singer Superman Returns was far from perfect but it is also far from the second coming of CINO as you guys make it out to be.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I am going to call BS on that statement there. There are three main real version of Bruce Wayne's Batman The Batman before and during WWII, The Batman post WW II (Adam West Batman), then the Batman post COIE (Frank Millars Batman) which Nolan and Burton drew there Batman from as well as Kingdom Come and ll other stories really.

says who? You've also got each of the different versions on TV, 3 different Batmen in the movies. countless Batman cartoons, Batman: TAS, The Batman, Mask of the Phantasm, etc. While some of the Batmen may be similar they all have different nuances and intricacies. Those are the ones most people associate with. Superman has exactly the same exact issues only he's had a few more TV shows.

Besides that fact then can we say SV has dropped the ball because it is just as loved as Superman Returns but also just as hated?

Say what you want about SV but its the longest running superhero TV show...ever. Not exactly "dropping the ball" for the character. If anything it's kept him atleast somewhat relevant for almost a decade.

I am not trying to make excuses for Singer.

Oh no?

He did drop the ball in some places but he also did a great job in others and I thought all in all he did a good job could it have been better yes but non the less he did a good job.

Keep telling yourself that....

My point however is it is easier to make a Batman movie then a Superman movie because no matter where you go or how you look at it everyone has their own views of how Superman should be done and look at BT, here at the Hype and Save Superman and many other places each person be it fan or writter have there own view on how Superman should be that we will never agree.

And I say thats not true, not even in the slightest. I explained in my last post why Nolan's movies were successful and Singer's stunk, and it has nothing to do with the characters. Saying it's harder to make a Superman movie than it is to make a Batman movie is ridiculous and a copout and an excuse. If you want to deal in generalities, it's harder to make a good movie than it is a bad one.

Everyone has their own views on the perfect version of every character, yet we have Spider-man, Iron Man, Batman, etc. blowing up as huge hit films. AS I said before, they were successful because they were done the right way and did their character enough justice that the fanbases, while not thinking they were perfect, thought they were close enough to the characters they've invested their time in.

For example again some say Birthright is how Superman's origin should be, others say Man of Steel is how it should be, then others say pre-crisis origins are how it should be and then some say how Donner did it was the right way so which one is right?

you still keep belaboring the same points over and over, and they dont get any better the more you keep saying them. yes Superman has many different tellings, and every person has their favorite. BUT SO DOES EVERY OTHER CHARACTER IN COMICS. Many of whom have had successful film franchises.

I am not making excuses for Singer Superman Returns was far from perfect but it is also far from the second coming of CINO as you guys make it out to be

Not sure i know what "CINO" is, but Singer's Superman was a heaping pile of pretentious dung. Some people just seem content to accept that dung so long as it has the slapped on it because they waited so long for a new movie and the thought of it not being any good basically invalidates all of the time they invested into following it come to life. So be it, it's your choice, but a lot of people dislike that film for what it did to the character. It's the reason why sites like Save Superman and Singer;s Superman Sucks blog exist. I dont recall seeing sites and such like that for all of these other films.

 

[b24]

i hope they keep john william's official superman theme score for next movie

they can change anything they want but that score MUST be in every superman movie

 

[triplet]

Not sure i know what "CINO" is,

Catwoman In Name Only

And I completely agree with you on every single point.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

.



Say what you want about SV but its the longest running superhero TV show...ever. Not exactly "dropping the ball" for the character. If anything it's kept him atleast somewhat relevant for almost a decade.

Say what you want to say? Have you been visiting Superman forums and comic forums for the past 8 years. Fans don't really care for SV as much as they do SR. They are both love and hated in the same amount. SV is less talked about right now because it is old and people have forgot about it. Just like they will SR. When it is brought up that SV will do this and that people say is that show still on the air I forgot about. That is how much SV means to fans now. SR is talked about now because it is the new thing and also because it is a movie which sets it above SV but not by much but SV did divide the fan base a long time ago or have you forgot about the time before SR where we fans were fighting for SV to move to the big screen that's when I first saw how unloved SV and it is on the same level as SR where half the people like and half hate it.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Say what you want to say? Have you been visiting Superman forums and comic forums for the past 8 years. Fans don't really care for SV as much as they do SR. They are both love and hated in the same amount.

really? Was there some kind of "caring poll" that was handed out to all Superman fans? Did SR rank higher on the "care-o-meter" but scored equal on the love and hate meters? Stop trying to quantify peoples subject tastes, it makes you look foolish.

SV is less talked about right now because it is old and people have forgot about it. Just like they will SR.

Funny, I see at least 150 sites wholly or partially dedicated to Smallville all over the web that have active discussion forums, even though we havent had a new episode in 5 months. I dont think people have forgotten about it. As for SR, AICN cant even get their stars name right, so it seems that that film is already getting forgotten. Trust me, I've tried to wipe it from my mind.

When it is brought up that SV will do this and that people say is that show still on the air I forgot about. That is how much SV means to fans now. SR is talked about now because it is the new thing and also because it is a movie which sets it above SV but not by much but SV did divide the fan base a long time ago or have you forgot about the time before SR where we fans were fighting for SV to move to the big screen that's when I first saw how unloved SV and it is on the same level as SR where half the people like and half hate it.

The rest of this nonsense doesnt even warrant wasting my time by typing out a coherent response seeing as how its not even a coherent statement on your part just a bunch of random, nonsensical synoptic firings... SR is the "new thing?" Really? LOL The "new thing" came out in theaters over 2 years ago, has no prospects for a sequel and is now residing in the bargain DVD bin at Target for $4.99? LOl You're a clown.

 

[b24]

well i agree SV is not as popurlar like it used to be but show ran for 8 years going for even 9 and any show which ran for that long looses its viwership

but still there is no denying SV has been the ONLY live action show on superman which ran for that long other live action showes like superboy, Lois and clark were low level grade showes (let's face it they had nothing new to offer) and atleast SV had new stuff to offer which previous show didn't

that's why it has been successfull because we(specailly who don't know much about comics) don't know much about clark's life before he was superman

show is not perfect far from being perfect , but which show is compeletly perfect

even take Heroes for example which had problem during seseaon 2 and some fans didn't like what they did in seseaon 2 of heroes

as for SR well i thought movie wasn't THAT bad it had its moments however Bryan singer seemed like forgot that he was making movie about SUPERMAN and superman is not suppsed to be "dark brooding " emo superhero who doesn't even smile in the movie

people want superman to have fun with his powers he is suppsed to represent light in the darkness not the other way around

and SR's superman reminded me of SV's clark with whole love angst thing

 

[KalKai]

Say what you want to say? Have you been visiting Superman forums and comic forums for the past 8 years. Fans don't really care for SV as much as they do SR. They are both love and hated in the same amount. SV is less talked about right now because it is old and people have forgot about it. Just like they will SR. When it is brought up that SV will do this and that people say is that show still on the air I forgot about. That is how much SV means to fans now. SR is talked about now because it is the new thing and also because it is a movie which sets it above SV but not by much but SV did divide the fan base a long time ago or have you forgot about the time before SR where we fans were fighting for SV to move to the big screen that's when I first saw how unloved SV and it is on the same level as SR where half the people like and half hate it.

Hahaha, I can't believe all the gibberish you just wrote. Are you for real? You're so out of touch with reality it's truly laughable, and you know what the worst thing is? YOU ARE BEING SERIOUS!

Your constant attempts at trying to elevate SR & it's "fanbase" (is there even 1?), or the comic-book fanbase to something bigger than what it really is fails each time.

 

[Mikelus]

says who? You've also got each of the different versions on TV, 3 different Batmen in the movies. countless Batman cartoons, Batman: TAS, The Batman, Mask of the Phantasm, etc. While some of the Batmen may be similar they all have different nuances and intricacies. Those are the ones most people associate with. Superman has exactly the same exact issues only he's had a few more TV shows.

And I say thats not true, not even in the slightest. I explained in my last post why Nolan's movies were successful and Singer's stunk, and it has nothing to do with the characters. Saying it's harder to make a Superman movie than it is to make a Batman movie is ridiculous and a copout and an excuse. If you want to deal in generalities, it's harder to make a good movie than it is a bad one.

Everyone has their own views on the perfect version of every character, yet we have Spider-man, Iron Man, Batman, etc. blowing up as huge hit films. AS I said before, they were successful because they were done the right way and did their character enough justice that the fanbases, while not thinking they were perfect, thought they were close enough to the characters they've invested their time in.

you still keep belaboring the same points over and over, and they dont get any better the more you keep saying them. yes Superman has many different tellings, and every person has their favorite. BUT SO DOES EVERY OTHER CHARACTER IN COMICS. Many of whom have had successful film franchises.

Some people just seem content to accept that dung so long as it has the slapped on it because they waited so long for a new movie and the thought of it not being any good basically invalidates all of the time they invested into following it come to life. So be it, it's your choice, but a lot of people dislike that film for what it did to the character. It's the reason why sites like Save Superman and Singer;s Superman Sucks blog exist. I dont recall seeing sites and such like that for all of these other films.

Great response as usual.

Don't waste your time, any person that uses "editing" as an excuse when the script itself was bad enough can't be taken seriously.

 

[JackMercy]

Say what you want to say? Have you been visiting Superman forums and comic forums for the past 8 years. Fans don't really care for SV as much as they do SR. They are both love and hated in the same amount. SV is less talked about right now because it is old and people have forgot about it. Just like they will SR. When it is brought up that SV will do this and that people say is that show still on the air I forgot about. That is how much SV means to fans now. SR is talked about now because it is the new thing and also because it is a movie which sets it above SV but not by much but SV did divide the fan base a long time ago or have you forgot about the time before SR where we fans were fighting for SV to move to the big screen that's when I first saw how unloved SV and it is on the same level as SR where half the people like and half hate it.

Should I even respond to this?

Nahh...others have already taken care of it.

The one thing I will say, however, is that a show like Smallville doesn't last for as long as it has merely on the partial support of a so-called "divided fanbase." In order to be that successful -- have you checked out the DVD sales history? -- and this goes for almost all comic book film adaptations, something about it must be appealing to a general audience in widely dispersed demographics. And clearly, this interpretation of the property is continuing to appeal in those ways -- you don't get renewed for an 8th year, with practically no mention of it being the "final year," without the longstanding and continuous potential for making large amounts of green...

And Hulk, being green, knows what I'm talking about...

One other thing I will say: Whether you may know it or not, there are a lot of people in "the industry" and the public who were/would have been/and still are very interested in taking this property to the next level... Though it may seem less likely now, that doesn't mean that a lot of people haven't seen the synergistic potential there...

A divided fanbase is not the be-all, end-all, my friend...

I'd venture to say that this incarnation of the character won't be "forgotten about" anytime soon...

 

[triplet]

*strokes chin thoughtfully*

 

[triplet]

In partly related news to Smallville, Bow Wow (who'd guest starred on Smallville back in season 5 I believe, in Fallout), has decided to give up singing, or rapping, to pursue acting full-time.

http://angryape.com/news/2008/08/07/bow-wow-to-quit-music-for-acting



I don't remember him being all that good...

 

[Gmanofsteel]

hahaha

 

[triplet]

hahaha

Yeah, too funny...

 

[Serene]

Though it may seem less likely now, that doesn't mean that a lot of people haven't seen the synergistic potential there...

MMmmmm... I love it when Jack uses big sexy words like that.

 

[Cmill216]

Bow Wow was an average emcee who blew up simply because of his age gimmick. As far as his acting goes, he wasn't too bad in that roller skating movie from a couple of years back, but I wouldn't exactly think he could make a career out of this.

Moving right along.

 

[Migu-EL]

Hey...I loved him in "Like Mike". LOL

 

[ariellem]

He's also got a cameo as a gay porn star in Kevin Smith's next flick with Seth Rogen:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/37756

Had seen Smith do the Galactica panel (online, not at the Con). Read this whole thing - lots of good details. Thanks for posting.