The Tennis Thread - Part 2

[Dark Raven]

But Maria was serving well at the Olympics and even did quite a few second serve aces in her other matches. It's like it all crumbles when she sees Serena at the other end. It would be nice if Maria could get into some points. Serena keeps them extremely short when she's playing her.

 

[chamber-music]

I don't get the Serena Williams hate.

 

[Sakuraba]

Her first serve is getting stronger which shows in her results but it's her second serve that let her down. It looked about like my second serves at the local hardcourts. She won like 10% of her second serves.

I do agree there are some mental blocks. There was a moment in that match, Serena serving at 3-1 in the second set, and Maria had break points. You had the feeling watching it that if Maria had gotten the break that the match was on. Instead the BPs were erased and it was over.

 

[Sakuraba]

I don't get the Serena Williams hate.

I don't speak for everyone, only myself.

That said, some people dislike (hate) her because she's a brat and she has threatened line judges and umpires. She has had her fair share of issues from PR perspective. Personally, I think her showiness is great for tennis. Her threatening to shove a ball down a little old Asian lady's throat is an ugly moment, but it is a MOMENT in a sport that used to have more passion and fire to it. As great as the Federer-Nadal gentlemen's era is from a playing perspective, it can be lacking from raw emotional displays.

The only thing I dislike about her is that she hasn't nearly lived up to her potential. She can be so determined at one tournament and then be careless and just go away at other events. I have a mountain of evidence against her in this regard. It's an open and shut case. And in fairness to her, she's been getting the greatest ever treatment for a decade now without having earned. It is probably difficult to get motivated when commentators are roundly, ruthlessly criticizing the World No. 1 for not being the best player in the world, even though that's not what objective rankings are for. Even though that World No. 1 has traveled the world and competed to earn those ranking points.

 

[Dark Raven]

Boris Becker thinks Andy Murray could be No.1 by next year, but not realistically by the end of this year.

 

[chamber-music]

Serena has had a couple bad outbursts but those are few and far between. There have been plenty of tennis players through out history who have had bad tempers, been rude or thrown tantrums.

John McEnroe, Xavier Malisse, Jeff Tarango, Ilie Nastase,
Jimmy Connors, Greg Rusedski and so on all had their rude outbursts and they don't seem to get the hate Serena does.

 

[Dark Raven]

Serena has had a couple bad outbursts but those are few and far between. There have been plenty of tennis players through out history who have had bad tempers, been rude or thrown tantrums.

John McEnroe, Xavier Malisse, Jeff Tarango, Ilie Nastase,
Jimmy Connors, Greg Rusedski and so on all had their rude outbursts and they don't seem to get the hate Serena does.

I think it's also that sometimes she isn't always gracious in defeat. She has said or indicated about several players when she has lost that they didn't win but that she just lost and makes it about her lack of performance rather than their ability to gain a victory over her on that occasion. I don't think it's just to do with outbursts but a slightly arrogant attitude.

 

[kit1982]

@ Chamber

Eh I dunno, the Johnny Mac hate was pretty bad back in the day and that was before the 24/7 internet age I imagine it'd be much worse if he did it now.

Noones going to hate Malisse, Tarango or Rudesdski because they were bang average players who didn't really affect anything.. it's like in Snooker Ronnie O'Sullivan is pretty much a saint compared to say Quinten Hann, but if you ask 99% of people to name an ******** snooker player they'll reply O'Sullivan. An exceptional player is always going to make more headlines than an average player.

I think like the other guys you've listed once shes retired and nostalgia sets in, her talent as a player rather than her outbursts will be all you hear about.

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah McEnroe had a lot of hate back in the day. Not only was he seen as the big bad who ended Borg's reign, but he was a real superbrat that people didn't like. There was even a record called "Chalk Dust: The Umpire Strikes Back" which was a parody song about McEnroe's outbursts in the early 80s which was a top 20 hit in the UK. It's only afterwards when he was close to retiring or had retired that he was more appreciated for his talent.

 

[Sakuraba]

I'll throw a few more things out there, and for the record I don't feel there's a lot of Serena hate. If so, where's it coming from? She's beloved by the tennis media, she gets good to great support at major tournaments.

-Her outbursts are different then the other people chamber listed because she is a woman. I believe they're held to a slightly different standard. But again, as the fellows listed above, McEnroe has had 20 years of good feelings to rehabilitate his image, and the other guys aren't worth caring about. But the image of a woman making veiled or outright threats of violence is a turnoff for a lot of people.
-No one's mentioned that Nalbandian was crucified by the media and fans for his careless tantrum that led to a linesman getting hurt.
-She's a brat and, again as mentioned by Dark Raven is always graceful in defeat. Does anyone remember Martina Hingis blowing the '99 French Open against Graf, and the crowd just mercilessly destroying, leaving her in tears on court? This isn't unique in tennis.
-There's also Richard Williams...

 

[Dark Raven]

I'll throw a few more things out there, and for the record I don't feel there's a lot of Serena hate. If so, where's it coming from? She's beloved by the tennis media, she gets good to great support at major tournaments.

-Her outbursts are different then the other people chamber listed because she is a woman. I believe they're held to a slightly different standard. But again, as the fellows listed above, McEnroe has had 20 years of good feelings to rehabilitate his image, and the other guys aren't worth caring about. But the image of a woman making veiled or outright threats of violence is a turnoff for a lot of people.
-No one's mentioned that Nalbandian was crucified by the media and fans for his careless tantrum that led to a linesman getting hurt.
-She's a brat and, again as mentioned by Dark Raven is always graceful in defeat. Does anyone remember Martina Hingis blowing the '99 French Open against Graf, and the crowd just mercilessly destroying, leaving her in tears on court? This isn't unique in tennis.
-There's also Richard Williams...

But I didn't say she is graceful in defeat. I said she isn't always gracious in defeat, which is quite the opposite.

The player I know who is always gracious in defeat in all her interviews is Sharapova. She always credits her opponent and will make sure to say that it's them who has won and not just to do with her playing badly. She won't give excuses but says it's that her opponent played better, which is the opposite of what Serena sometimes says.

 

[Sakuraba]

It was typo. I write on my phone and make tons of errors

 

[Sakuraba]

Nadal is back. No, not playing yet. He's whining again! About hardcourts.

He claims he'll possibly play the South American clay events in February and March instead of hardcourt events like Dubai and maybe Indian Wells or Miami.

The most laughable thing he says is that hardcourts are bad for our sport. Oh really? You mean the fact that they can be installed with minimal ongoing maintenance at most every public park is bad for tennis? Give me a break. I can only speak for what I see here in the U.S. but nearly every public park here has at least two hardcourts. That wouldn't be possible with grass or clay, which have to be maintained by private clubs.

The lesson here is that if it's bad for Nadal, it's bad for the totality of tennis. I swear this guy becomes more and more unlikable the older he gets.

In other news, fifteen years ago this week, Roger Federer made his debut in the ATP rankings, ranked in the 800s with a meager 12 points. He currently has nearly 12,000 points and is ranked World No. 1

 

[Sakuraba]

So Djokovic is going to play Beijing and Federer is now committed to the Shanghai Masters. Looks like we're going to have a competitive finish for World No. 1

Sharapova was asked about possible WTA regulations against grunting, and she said she supported their efforts to weed it out on the beginners level. She also let slip that no action would be taken on the pro level as long as she plays. The WTA apparently guaranteed this to her, which seems quite a bit like favoritism.

 

[Sakuraba]

I've long since decided that Richard Gasquet will never live up to his considerable hype and talent. Now I'm wondering if he'll ever win a Masters event. Masters finals aren't five-setters anymore, so that helps with his notorious stamina issues.

Just when you think he's starting to piece together his game, he's coming in more, being aggressive with his sublime backhand, and then he gets straight-setted today by the weathered, ancient Radek Stepanek, who's lone brush with greatness came with his brief engagement to the Swiss Miss.

Gasquet shouldn't be losing these type of matches. Pity.

 

[Sakuraba]

Serena vs Maria tomorrow. Maria exercised her demons against Azarenka today, with huge assist to Vika's poor play, can she at least be competitive with Serena tomorrow?

Federer/Delpo VII tomorrow. Yes, hard to believe that these guys will play a whopping seven times this year, Federer taking all six thus far. Indoor hardcourt is Federer's finest surface but Del Potro (pre-injury) has beaten under those circumstances.

With the WTF coming up, it's probable that they'll might again!

 

[Sakuraba]

It's funny that I trashed Stepanek a few posts up and a few months later he wins the Davis Cup finals rubber match for the Czechs, after Berdych laid an egg against Ferrer. Kudos Mr Stepanek.

If there were any doubts that Federer intends to play for another five years or more, they were probably erased when he published his 2013 schedule. He's taking three tournaments off his schedule (Miami and Paris Masters along with his hometown Basel event.) He still won't play the optional Monte Carlo Masters. It seems that scratching that #1 record off his to-do list has allowed him to just chase Slams and longevity, and not make any effort to be World No. 1 ever again. That's probably why he made no genuine effort to finish year end No. 1.

The biggest issue I see with his schedule is that he'll be going into Australia cold since he won't be playing the Doha event as usual. I can't understand why he's not playing Doha but includes an event like Rotterdam. Makes no sense unless he just loves that city or he's getting a huge appearance fee. It's just weird when his schedule is so clearly geared toward winning Slams. It seems the schedule he's playing only serves that purpose: maintain a top 4 ranking for seeding purposes and prep him for the majors.

Anyway, it looks like the long goodbye from Federer.

 

[Burgundy LaRue]

It looks like Federer is taking a page from Serena. Focus on the majors and a few of the bigger events. It keeps him fresh and allows him a chance to play for another 3-5 years, where he can possibly put more distance between himself and the others, majors wise. Makes sense.

 

[Sakuraba]

Well, roger federer has coyly announced his retirement. Four years in advance! Yes, he's tentatively anointed the Rio Games as his end marker. He mentioned that he's missing too much of his personal life, and in a moment of humility also cited his old age as a factor in limiting his future schedule.

The plan is to shave tournaments each year, with 2013's schedule being cut by five from 2012. Federer noted that he will only play in the cities that mean the most to him and where he has great memories. He is putting a greater emphasis on practice instead of barnstorming from tournament to tournament. This is actually quite a novel concept in professional tennis.

So why is Federer hanging around another four seasons? Well, I think it's obvious that he knows he has the enduring skill to win another Slam or two, and he wants to cushion his record as much as possible.

Davis Cup? No, not at all. And he hasn't made any effort to push Switzerland to a Cup in ten years. He's clearly tired of having to turnaround from a major to help keep the Swiss in the World Group. His retirement from DC is looming.

He wants the tournament wins record. Or at least 100 tournament wins. I mean, to get 100 he'd need to average six wins a year, and that'll be hard with a reduced schedule. Jimmy Conners owns the record at 109, and that's all but impossible for Federer. He stressed tournament wins over ranking points in his announcement, but he'd have to play a ton of smaller events. Let's remember that Conners played in an era of two Tours and he played about a million events. It'd be incredibly hard to catch him. I think Federer will win around 95 titles, just enough to put him at #2 ahead of Lendl.

It'll be interesting to see what more rest and practice mean for his play. He's certainly been really good when he has time to heal and work with Annacone. I also wonder how much his schedule will be cut in future seasons.

It's a very interesting strategy. I'm not sure if Federer has ever been better than he can be today. He's lost the tournament-to-tournament consistency that he had in his prime years, he's not nearly the closer he once was, and he maybe doesn't cover the court quite like he did. But a reduced schedule can possibly cure all of that. To be real, his backhand has never been better and since Annacone has been coaching him his variety has never been applied more tactically. So a rested and practiced Federer should be a force for years to come.

 

[Sakuraba]

A question for the tennis heads in this brief off season. I posted this on another board, but I'll post an abbreviated version here in case anyone wants to discuss.

So my sister's son is five, and she's teaching him tennis in partnership with me. We both played on the college level, and we both agree that college is the goal here if he chooses to pursue tennis as a passion. He likes it now but there's always the strong likelihood that will become a choir for him later.

Anyway, we disagree on his backhand. I want him to play a one-hander, she wants him to play a modern two-hander while having a decent enough slice.

I grew up in an era when the best players, man and woman, played a one-hander, so it was a given that I was taught it too. I am biased because I love the elegance and flow of a 1hander, but I also recognize its strengths at least in the lower levels of competition. You'll have a better defensive reach on that side, a stronger slice (though I recognize the brilliance of Murray, Dolgo, and Tomic when they take a hand off), more versitale return game, and a more explosive backhand.

The bottom line to me is that if he shows promise and enough talent to be a pro in his early teens, then maybe switch him to a two-hander where the consistency of the stroke and ability to take the ball on the rise are indispensable in the grind it out style of the upper levels in tennis.

I just love the versatility of the 1hander and its explosive reaction, and will take those with the unforced errors. Am I too rooted in the romance of the stroke. Should my nephew play a two-hander?

 

[NJCaliboi]

The thing about Serena Williams is that you can't just let go any time as she fights on even at matchpoint down. She's done that a few times before, one particular time of note being the Australian Open semi final of 2005 against Maria Sharapova. There was also another time (not matchpoint down but losing) when she was suffering cramps at Wimbledon and was physically in pain. I don't remember which year. However, she went on to win that match and eventually the tournament.

It's like she pushes herself to win against her will, or maybe she's on steroids or something that keeps her going. It's a shame Azarenka lost.

U can refer to me as the resident tennis expert. Serena getting cramps at Wimbledon? Hmmm....That sounds like the match in 2007 she played against Hantuchova. Man that was something else. She did display heart and fight, but lets not forget God helped her out too...lol. If u recall the clouds opened up and it started raining so Serena got to some time to recover.

One corection though, she didn't end up winning the event that year- she lost to Justine in the next round. But even that loss illustrates your point. She ended up hurting her wrist and couldn't use her left hand. Remarkably she didn't retire and played the rest of the match with one hand. She lost but she took it to 3 sets and never gave up.

Here's a clip of the infamous cramp (MUST SEE if u haven't already):
[YT]ZrR_tZSk_X4[/YT]

Serena might not be the greatest player (of all time) but I would easily crown her the greatest 'comeback champion' of all time. So many times she's come back from the brink to pull out a win, not to mention all the times she saved match points at slams....truly remarkable!

 

[NJCaliboi]

A question for the tennis heads in this brief off season. I posted this on another board, but I'll post an abbreviated version here in case anyone wants to discuss.

So my sister's son is five, and she's teaching him tennis in partnership with me. We both played on the college level, and we both agree that college is the goal here if he chooses to pursue tennis as a passion. He likes it now but there's always the strong likelihood that will become a choir for him later.

Anyway, we disagree on his backhand. I want him to play a one-hander, she wants him to play a modern two-hander while having a decent enough slice.

I grew up in an era when the best players, man and woman, played a one-hander, so it was a given that I was taught it too. I am biased because I love the elegance and flow of a 1hander, but I also recognize its strengths at least in the lower levels of competition. You'll have a better defensive reach on that side, a stronger slice (though I recognize the brilliance of Murray, Dolgo, and Tomic when they take a hand off), more versitale return game, and a more explosive backhand.

The bottom line to me is that if he shows promise and enough talent to be a pro in his early teens, then maybe switch him to a two-hander where the consistency of the stroke and ability to take the ball on the rise are indispensable in the grind it out style of the upper levels in tennis.

I just love the versatility of the 1hander and its explosive reaction, and will take those with the unforced errors. Am I too rooted in the romance of the stroke. Should my nephew play a two-hander?

I say train him on his one-hander when he is young, but keep in mind you will pay a short term price for that. An effective one-hander takes a lot more time to master and while developing his game it will likely be a weakness. In time of course that will change. After he's mastered his one-hander give him the choice to do what feels most natural. I can make a sound argument for the two-hander as well so I totally understand your dilemma.

 

[Sakuraba]

I definitely want to build his arm strength. Of all people, I think Tsonga may be the man ahead of the curve this last season when he often played his traditional two-hander on one rally ball and then a topspin 1hander on the next.

It's rather inventive to rally with both hands and wait for a short ball that you can rip with one hand and move to your continental at net. I really do believe Tsonga's 'sometimes' approach this year could be the wave of the future. It highlights the strengths of both strokes by choice.

The challenge in coaching that I would think is just raising his IQ and teaching patience, and combining that with him getting comfortable cycling through his grips.

 

[Sakuraba]

Nadal has withdrawn from the Aussie Open, nearly three weeks before it starts, because of a stomach virus, basically citing that he won't be physically prepared for the event.

My question is, is this true or is it still his knees? This must be the worst stomach bug of all time

 

[NJCaliboi]

I buy it, it makes perfect sense. He's basically saying his practice time won't be sufficient enough for him to be confident. His team doesn't want his first match back to be a tournament with best of 5 sets. Since he's already been out for this long and since the bug cuts into his practice time and takes him out of Doha why hurry back. If your going to do it, then do it right.

Nadal isn't like Serena where he can just come back and start winning, he needs to build confidence. So I'm guessing he'll debut at Indian Wells then play Miami then go into the clay court season and really get things rolling. Not the worse strategy in the world.

Tennis just isn't the same w.out him though....sucks donkey balls, but I guess I have to just wait it out w.the rest of the world.